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Bishop accuses gays of 'conspiracy' against the Catholic Church
by Times Online
Thanks to Peter Waine for the link.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3545414.ece
Bishop accuses gays of 'conspiracy' against the Catholic Church
Joanna Sugden
A Catholic bishop has accused the gay community of leading a "conspiracy" against Christianity by allying itself with Holocaust survivors.
The Bishop of Motherwell, Joseph Devine, says a "homosexual lobby" has aligned itself with minority groups, including Holocaust survivors, to gain persecuted status.
He said there was a "huge and well orchestrated conspiracy" taking place in the "gay movement", which the Catholic Church neglected "at our peril".
The bishop, who has previously spoken out against the Labour government's support for civil partnerships, said the "lobby" was "ever present" at services for Holocaust Memorial Day. "The impression is that they have been equally persecuted," he said.
In an attack on openly gay actor Sir Ian McKellen the bishop said: "I saw actor Ian McKellen being honoured for his work on behalf of homosexuals, when a century ago Oscar Wilde was locked up and put in jail."
He made the comments during a lecture on "Christian faith and inconvenient questions" in Glasgow on Tuesday and has since stood by them, "These groups are defending their position, I am defending mine", he said. "It is all about a lifestyle alien to the Christian tradition. There is a giant conspiracy against Christian values, an agenda here."
A spokesman defended the bishop's comments, "Anything which attacks the sanctity of marriage and the family will be opposed by the church," he said. Civil partnerships are "an abuse" of the church's teaching on marriage, he told Times Online.
Christine Shaw, head of Holocaust Memorial Day Trust, said it was important to remember all the victims of the Holocaust "be they Jewish, disabled, gay or lesbian people".
"The day is also about learning the lessons of the past to encourage society to tackle all forms of prejudice, including anti-Semitism, racism and homophobia," she said.
Calum Irving, director of Stonewall Scotland, which promotes equality and justice for gay people, said the bishop was "deluded".
He told The Scotsman: "Such a continued attack on gay people is distinctly un-Christian and deeply out of step with the views of most Scots today."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3545414.ece
Bishop accuses gays of 'conspiracy' against the Catholic Church
Joanna Sugden
A Catholic bishop has accused the gay community of leading a "conspiracy" against Christianity by allying itself with Holocaust survivors.
The Bishop of Motherwell, Joseph Devine, says a "homosexual lobby" has aligned itself with minority groups, including Holocaust survivors, to gain persecuted status.
He said there was a "huge and well orchestrated conspiracy" taking place in the "gay movement", which the Catholic Church neglected "at our peril".
The bishop, who has previously spoken out against the Labour government's support for civil partnerships, said the "lobby" was "ever present" at services for Holocaust Memorial Day. "The impression is that they have been equally persecuted," he said.
In an attack on openly gay actor Sir Ian McKellen the bishop said: "I saw actor Ian McKellen being honoured for his work on behalf of homosexuals, when a century ago Oscar Wilde was locked up and put in jail."
He made the comments during a lecture on "Christian faith and inconvenient questions" in Glasgow on Tuesday and has since stood by them, "These groups are defending their position, I am defending mine", he said. "It is all about a lifestyle alien to the Christian tradition. There is a giant conspiracy against Christian values, an agenda here."
A spokesman defended the bishop's comments, "Anything which attacks the sanctity of marriage and the family will be opposed by the church," he said. Civil partnerships are "an abuse" of the church's teaching on marriage, he told Times Online.
Christine Shaw, head of Holocaust Memorial Day Trust, said it was important to remember all the victims of the Holocaust "be they Jewish, disabled, gay or lesbian people".
"The day is also about learning the lessons of the past to encourage society to tackle all forms of prejudice, including anti-Semitism, racism and homophobia," she said.
Calum Irving, director of Stonewall Scotland, which promotes equality and justice for gay people, said the bishop was "deluded".
He told The Scotsman: "Such a continued attack on gay people is distinctly un-Christian and deeply out of step with the views of most Scots today."
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Posted: Thursday, March 13, 2008 | PermalinkComments 1 - 50 of 176 |
Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers2. Comment #143023 by notsobad on March 13, 2008 at 11:20 am
"Such a continued attack on gay people is distinctly un-Christian..."That opinion seems deluded too though.
Other Comments by notsobad
3. Comment #143024 by Vinelectric on March 13, 2008 at 11:21 am
The monarch, and by extension, the whole country is supposed to be Anglican anyway. Any Anglican who is serious about their faith should lobby to ban Catholicism altogether.
"Values and teachings of the Catholic Church" my arse.
Other Comments by Vinelectric
4. Comment #143028 by Steve Zara on March 13, 2008 at 11:28 am
Well, if this is true, I feel left out. It just isn't fair. It is like when I wasn't ask to join in games at school.But seriously, when did some bishops get this nutty? Have they always been this bad? Are they so out of touch that they think Sir Ian McKellen a threat to society? He's been in Coronation Street (a dull British soap operate) for goodness sake.
Well I say let's hear more stuff like this - it makes the Catholic church look ridiculous.
Other Comments by Steve Zara
5. Comment #143030 by hungarianelephant on March 13, 2008 at 11:31 am
Still, it's good to know that Oscar Wilde was locked up and put in jail. I was worried for a moment that they might have forgotten about one half of the task. Other Comments by hungarianelephant
6. Comment #143033 by Quetzalcoatl on March 13, 2008 at 11:33 am
Everything seems to be against Catholicism these days.
Homosexuals.
Other faiths.
The rise of secularism.
Sense.
Reason.
Logic.
Intelligence.
The FACTS.
Poor old Catholics.
Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl
7. Comment #143034 by al-rawandi on March 13, 2008 at 11:35 am
Opinion on Gays.... Disgusting.
Opinion on the Holocaust Industry.... Dead on.
The Catholics are a bunch of clowns.
Other Comments by al-rawandi
8. Comment #143037 by Duff on March 13, 2008 at 11:38 am
This gentleman? of the cloth is suggesting gays should be locked up?Next thing you know, one of these fine catholic fellows, no doubt under instruction from The Rat, will advocate gays be stoned to death at the village gate. He would then at least be following the "sacred" scriptures which give such wonderfully detailed instructions on the sacrifice of all kinds of animals, and directions as to the proper killing and maiming of humans and their male and female slaves for various and sundry offenses - usually for being in the out group.
"It's all about lifestyles which are alien to christian traditions," says the good bishop.
I think he is advocating bringing back an old catholic/christian tradition; the inquisition.
Other Comments by Duff
9. Comment #143039 by Incredulous on March 13, 2008 at 11:40 am
"It is all about a lifestyle alien to the Christian tradition. There is a giant conspiracy against Christian values, an agenda here."
But they're not paranoid! When are faithheads going to realise that there are great swathes of the world who are simply not interested in them or their doctrines.
I would imagine homosexuals simply want these people to go away and leave them in peace.
Why would anyone be interested in someone else's sex/emotional life? Let alone accuse them of the most ludicrous transgressions as a result. How sick is that?
Other Comments by Incredulous
10. Comment #143040 by steveroot on March 13, 2008 at 11:40 am
A spokesman defended the bishop's comments, "Anything which attacks the sanctity of marriage and the family will be opposed by the church," he said. Civil partnerships are "an abuse" of the church's teaching on marriage, he told Times Online.
"Four out of five Baptist divorcees want gays to stop undermining the sanctity of marriage"
'Tards, the lot of them.
STe5e
Other Comments by steveroot
11. Comment #143042 by Geoff on March 13, 2008 at 11:41 am
Civil partnerships are "an abuse" of the church's teaching on marriage...
Well done Steve! Keep abusing the fucktards!
He wants to lock up Gandalf? Maybe he should be given the Saruman treatment?
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2006/saruman.shtml
Other Comments by Geoff
12. Comment #143044 by MrPickwick on March 13, 2008 at 11:42 am
The pious bishop is understandably mad at Mckellen because he vandalizes hotel bibles as a hobby. http://tinyurl.com/23vzu3
Evil Ian!
Other Comments by MrPickwick
13. Comment #143045 by epeeist on March 13, 2008 at 11:43 am
Just dropped a line on the article comments suggesting that the Church ought to excommunicate any Catholic either being involved in or denying the Holocaust, even if they have to do it posthumously. Other Comments by epeeist
14. Comment #143047 by The Reverend Dark on March 13, 2008 at 11:44 am
How much transmogrified Jesus-Juice do you have to drink in order to be drunk enough to make statements like that?
Wow.
And people take these guys seriously?
Incredible.
Shayne
Other Comments by The Reverend Dark
15. Comment #143050 by al-rawandi on March 13, 2008 at 11:46 am
epeeist,
Why does the Holocaust get such mythical treatment? If someone wants to be an idiot why not let them.
The problem is now that the Holocaust quickly became a financial racket with the claims commissions. Should the Catholic Church excommunicate those who deny the Armenian Genocide? Deaths in the Inquisition? Ad naseum?
And the Catholics didn't bother excommunicating the Nazis themselves, until they married non-catholics, that is.
Other Comments by al-rawandi
16. Comment #143051 by al-rawandi on March 13, 2008 at 11:47 am
Shayne,
No one in their right mind would take these guys seriously.
Other Comments by al-rawandi
17. Comment #143052 by The Reverend Dark on March 13, 2008 at 11:49 am
So a question. How many of our gay breathren on this board start their morning with coffee, perhaps and english muffin and a reaffirmation of their desire to conspire against the catholic church.
Simply put, where do you find the time?
Please share these handy homosexual time saving tips as the heterosexuals are having a really hard time finding adequate conspire time.
Cheers,
Shayne
Other Comments by The Reverend Dark
18. Comment #143053 by Vaal on March 13, 2008 at 11:51 am
As Steve says, just let the Church carry on with this sort of nonsense. It is actually far better than any criticism that we can level at them, as it shows them for the bigots they are and the small mindedness of their beliefs. It is cods wallop like this that empties the churches, particularly with the young, as the zeitgeist has moved on.
Other Comments by Vaal
19. Comment #143054 by TruthByEvidence on March 13, 2008 at 11:52 am
So... just because homosexual people want to be treated as equals and not considered outcasts by bigoted, out-dated religions and their corrupted leaders makes them even more horrible, because it is an attack on an inherently prejudiced society's lack of complete acceptance toward their lifestyles....Wow, it makes absolute perfect sense now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Other Comments by TruthByEvidence
20. Comment #143055 by Geoff on March 13, 2008 at 11:53 am
Reverend: it wouldn't be so bad if it was only the catholics we had to conspire against, but there's the muslims, the creationists, the Baptists, the scientologists, JW's, Mormons, wooters...so many fucktards, so little time... Other Comments by Geoff
21. Comment #143059 by steveroot on March 13, 2008 at 11:56 am
20. Comment #143055 by Geoff on March 13, 2008 at 11:53 am
Reverend: it wouldn't be so bad if it was only the catholics we had to conspire against, but there's the muslims, the creationists, the Baptists, the scientologists, JW's, Mormons, wooters...so many fucktards, so little time...
Just so. But you omitted a *serious* fucktard group: the christian scientists.
Ste5e
Other Comments by steveroot
22. Comment #143060 by The Reverend Dark on March 13, 2008 at 11:57 am
OBRaymondChandler
Where do I find the time... where do I find the time.
/OBraymondchandler
Other Comments by The Reverend Dark
23. Comment #143062 by Geoff on March 13, 2008 at 12:00 pm
5, yep, apologies, but I type so slowly the full list would take forever.
I was brought up (by my grandmother) as a christian scientist, (pretty much from age zero) so I do know quite a lot about them. I think I was about 3 or 4 before I started to ask "awkward questions".
Edit: I think the first one was:
"Granny, why doesn't it work?"
Other Comments by Geoff
24. Comment #143064 by TheTrueScotsman on March 13, 2008 at 12:03 pm
I just saw this man on the local news tonight being interviewed about his comments and the reaction to them. His reaction? "Don't shoot the messenger!" He claimed the moral rules were not "Mine but his" (pointing upwards) and its was his job as a christian to "defend Christian Morality" (smug grin).
Seems an easy cop out so he can't be held responsible for his stated opinions.
"Hey, I think all people with black skin are worthless and should be discriminated against but don't blame me, the guy in the upstairs flat assured me that's the case and employs me to say it"!
He makes me ashamed to be Scottish sometimes, thank goodness I got out of the Scottish Catholics whilst I still had a brain.
Other Comments by TheTrueScotsman
25. Comment #143065 by Apathy personified on March 13, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Am I the only one who hopes this is true? Sir Ian Mckellan leading a gay conspiracy against the catholic church, how fantastic is that. Other Comments by Apathy personified
26. Comment #143068 by al-rawandi on March 13, 2008 at 12:05 pm
It was the Catholics that made you ashamed to be Scottish?
You mean to tell me it wasn't the checkered man-skirts?
Other Comments by al-rawandi
27. Comment #143070 by Steve Zara on March 13, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Comment #143065 by Apathy personifiedAm I the only one who hopes this is true? Sir Ian Mckellan leading a gay conspiracy against the catholic church, how fantastic is that.
If John Barrowman is involved, I wanna join.
("Torchwood vs. the evil Bishops")
Other Comments by Steve Zara
28. Comment #143073 by annabanana on March 13, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Sounds like "You can't be martyrs! We're the ones who are the martyrs! You're stealing our gig!" Other Comments by annabanana
29. Comment #143074 by TheTrueScotsman on March 13, 2008 at 12:14 pm
You mean to tell me it wasn't the checkered man-skirts?
I've been trying for 5 mins to think of a comeback worthy of a Professor Emeritus of witisism at the University of Wit, West Wittering but somehow all I can think of saying is.
Get tae Fuck ya tube!
There, makes me feel better.
Other Comments by TheTrueScotsman
30. Comment #143075 by emmet on March 13, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Well I say let's hear more stuff like this - it makes the Catholic church look ridiculous.
I take issue with the omission of "even more" between "look" and "ridiculous".
Other Comments by emmet
31. Comment #143076 by al-rawandi on March 13, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Was that English?
Fuck youtube? What's wrong with youtube?
Haha. Calm down I am only joking.
Other Comments by al-rawandi
32. Comment #143079 by Thelonious on March 13, 2008 at 12:19 pm
Civil partnerships are "an abuse" of the church's teaching on marriage
What exactly do civil statutes have to do with the church's teachings? How exactly does passing a law not in keeping with the church's views qualify as "abuse"?
And he claims that gays are trying to "gain persecuted status"? Ridiculous!
Other Comments by Thelonious
33. Comment #143080 by mixmastergaz on March 13, 2008 at 12:21 pm
A Catholic bishop has the nerve openly to speak of a "conspiracy" in the same breath as the Holocaust. There's a disturbing familiarity about this. Pardon my ignorance if this isn't exactly on-the-nail but wasn't it this sort of paranoid talk about conspiracies which led, in part, to the Holocaust? Ok, the paranoia this time is centred on a different "minority", but ultimately little appears to have changed. This coming shortly after we hear of Pope Nazi's restoration of the prayers for the conversion of the Jews in the Good Friday liturgy makes me think there's a conspiracy of fascists in the upper echelons of the Catholic Church! Perhaps paranoia is infectious, but I can't help thinking that by praying for the Jews on Good Friday the Pope is hoping to revive the ancient, racist slur of deicide. Afterall, this prayer could be uttered on any day of the year. To choose to pray on Good Friday will, I fear, inevitably remind Catholics of the supposed culpability of Judaism in the matter of the crucifixion. I can't bring myself to believe that the choice of Good Friday as the most appropriate time for Catholics to offer up this particular prayer is coincidental, anymore than I can bring myself to believe that this absurd, strutting Bishop isn't anything other than a crude, mean-spirited homophobe of the very worst sort. Other Comments by mixmastergaz
34. Comment #143081 by Geoff on March 13, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Get tae Fuck ya tube!
Error 404 Page not found
Other Comments by Geoff
35. Comment #143083 by TheTrueScotsman on March 13, 2008 at 12:25 pm
I know al-rawandi, so was I. :-)Tube is a great Scots insult.
Other Comments by TheTrueScotsman
36. Comment #143086 by al-rawandi on March 13, 2008 at 12:27 pm
mixmastergaz,
There is a distinct difference. Britain is nothing like 1930's Germany. Homosexuals don't consider themseleves superior. They don't group in neighborhoods (they do, but not exclusively). They don't have a reputation for being financial barons (stereotype). People are more educated. Information is more readily available. The Church does not make policy. Most Brits don't consider themselves a member of this (or any) Church.
I wouldn't go shouting Holocaust Version 2.0 just yet.
Although this doesn't mean the Church isn't a vile organization complicit in bigotry and genocide (historically and presently).
Other Comments by al-rawandi
37. Comment #143096 by Big City on March 13, 2008 at 12:46 pm
"These groups are defending their position, I am defending mine"
So somehow this makes them equally moral?
Other Comments by Big City
38. Comment #143098 by robotaholic on March 13, 2008 at 12:48 pm
The Catholic Church is always saying something. They've just turned into background noise to me... I'm as far away from them as is possible to be I think and I work right next to a catholic parish lol
Islam gets all the attention anymore and I really loved Pat Condell's recent video called "Appeasing Islam"- he was breathtakingly articulate! I think it's here http://youtube.com/watch?v=y9dXGJ2rYdA
Other Comments by robotaholic
39. Comment #143104 by zendal_darkman on March 13, 2008 at 1:01 pm
I think the holocaust references date back to an event the catholic church supported last year (may be the year before). The church were happy to mentioned the gay and lesbian victims, but they objected to someone from the "gay community" speaking in their church.A real LOL loud moment when I read that the church was criticizing others for faking "persecution".
the guy is a simple wanker.
Other Comments by zendal_darkman
40. Comment #143105 by al-rawandi on March 13, 2008 at 1:04 pm
zendal_darkman,
Just because the Catholics say it, doesn't make it false.
I think empirical evidence would suggest that gays are not faking persecution.
Other Comments by al-rawandi
41. Comment #143107 by Inferno on March 13, 2008 at 1:06 pm
That does it! I'm reliquishing my faith....
....no wait. Damn.
Other Comments by Inferno
42. Comment #143113 by jerekeys on March 13, 2008 at 1:17 pm
So very glad the Catholic church just declared "causing social injustice" to be a mortal sin... now I know that as a homosexual, when I deny jobs to Catholics in violation of US laws, refuse to elect openly Catholic lawmakers, and fight to make Catholic marriages illegal and unrecognized, I am also guilty of a mortal sin.Other Comments by jerekeys
43. Comment #143115 by Mitchell Gilks on March 13, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Ha! It must be a conspircy to not do what catholics think one ought do by all non-catholics.
What a fruitcake. Gays gain persecuted status? Is he joking? Not that I have any experience in the matter, but I am willing to bet millions (if I had it) that if you asked the general population if they would rather declare themselves "Jewish" or "gay" in a public arena the overwhelming majority would pick jewish. I was even go so far as to say that all of the places in which it would be a death sentence to declare oneself Jewish, it would be equally deadly to declare oneself a homosexual.
Now, I am not comparing who is persecuted more...that is a fantastically absurd thing to compare, but the guy is completely off his rocker if he thinks gays aren't persecuted, I mean he says they should be in jail...wtf is that?
What is wrong with these people. I'm not gay, but I have a massive amount of respect for anyone that is true to themselves, and is publicially gay. They have far more courage than I have. The persecution, and problems they are opening themselves up for. I'd sooner stay hidden, but they are the ones fighting against the public stigma, so that someday it will be 100% publically acceptable, and no one will even think twice about it. I think they are clearly winning the battle again such oppression.
Besides, I wouldn't want to life in a world without lesbians.
In short, fuck this stupid dickhole. I am not normally the insulting type, but these priests today just piss me off.
Other Comments by Mitchell Gilks
44. Comment #143116 by al-rawandi on March 13, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Mitchell Gilks,
Can you tell me where being Jewish gets you the death sentence?
Just one place.
Thanks.
Other Comments by al-rawandi
45. Comment #143117 by Diacanu on March 13, 2008 at 1:31 pm
The catholic church is circling the bowl.Everyone is fed the fuck up.
Anyone see "The Root Of All Evil", with Lewis Black last night?
You get crowds of people cheering anti-catholic sentiment these days.
And then you get assholes like this who keep shooting themselves in the foot.
Beautiful.
Oh, and there's a new directive against social injustice?
How about they sell off some of their fuckin' Vatican gold to feed the poor?
Yeah, here's hoping we're looking at the last pope.
Flush, catholicism, flush.
Don't make us have to plunge.
Other Comments by Diacanu
46. Comment #143119 by Mitchell Gilks on March 13, 2008 at 1:34 pm
I would suggest it would be a very bad idea to declare yourself a jew in many places in the world. I didn't mean to suggest it was illegal in those places, unless of course you will declaring yourself a jew after being a muslim.
I used the term "death setence" in a loose manner, merely meaning, "would get you killed"
Other Comments by Mitchell Gilks
47. Comment #143120 by al-rawandi on March 13, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Where would declaring yourself a Jew get you killed?
Name one place.
I am sick of hearing this Jewish victim complex.
Other Comments by al-rawandi
48. Comment #143123 by Mitchell Gilks on March 13, 2008 at 1:42 pm
So you are saying it would be perfectly fine for an Isreali to declare themselves as such in any one of the Muslim communitees surrounding Gaza or the border?
I highly doubt that. There are many places where it would get you killed. I would conceed that it would likely be more promoted by the conflicts between the areas, but it doesn't change the fact.
In either case it is not really important, as it wasn't major to any point I was making.
I was not even talking about Jewish persecuting.
Other Comments by Mitchell Gilks
49. Comment #143124 by Diacanu on March 13, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Fellas, stop slap fighting over minutiae, let's get back to hating on bigot bishops. Other Comments by Diacanu
50. Comment #143126 by al-rawandi on March 13, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Mitchell,
Israeli is different than Jewish. Every Muslims fanatic has at least noted this.
Also, Israelis routinely go into the West Bank and Gaza and demand peace alongside Palestinians. So get a better example.
My problem is that you stated this as fact and are helping to perpetuate the "eternally persecuted" myth of the chosen people. This is a religious myth set up in the Torah, based on a covenant with "God". Your unwiting promotion of religious myth is not impressive.
So name one place where declaring yourself a Jew gets you killed. I am a bit of a stickler for facts when comes to statements of facts.
Diacanu,
I will return to task as soon as possible.
Other Comments by al-rawandi
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1. Comment #143022 by steve8282 on March 13, 2008 at 11:19 am
The Bishop long for the days when Homosexuals knew their place, In the Clergy.Other Comments by steve8282