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Police: Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help
by Fox News
Thanks to Kubenzi for the link.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,341574,00.html
Police: Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help
WESTON, Wis. — An 11-year-old girl died after her parents prayed for healing rather than seek medical help for a treatable form of diabetes, police said Tuesday.
Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said Madeline Neumann died Sunday.
"She got sicker and sicker until she was dead," he said.
Vergin said an autopsy determined the girl died from diabetic ketoacidosis, an ailment that left her with too little insulin in her body, and she had probably been ill for about 30 days, suffering symptoms like nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness.
The girl's parents, Dale and Leilani Neumann, attributed the death to "apparently they didn't have enough faith," the police chief said.
They believed the key to healing "was it was better to keep praying. Call more people to help pray," he said.
The mother believes the girl could still be resurrected, the police chief said.
Telephone messages left at the Neumann home by The Associated Press were not immediately returned.
The family does not attend an organized church or participate in an organized religion, Vergin said. "They have a little Bible study of a few people."
The parents told investigators their daughter last saw a doctor when she was 3 to get some shots, Vergin said. The girl had attended public school during the first semester but didn't return for the second semester.
Officers went to the home after one of the girl's relatives in California called police to check on her, Vergin said. She was taken to a hospital where she was pronounced dead.
The relative was fearful the girl was "extremely ill, dire," Vergin said.
The girl has three siblings, ranging in age from 13 to 16, the police chief said.
"They are still in the home," he said. "There is no reason to remove them. There is no abuse or signs of abuse that we can see."
The girl's death remains under investigation and the findings will be forwarded to the district attorney to review for possible charges, the chief said.
The family operates a coffee shop in Weston, which is a suburb of Wausau, Vergin said.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,341574,00.html
Police: Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help
WESTON, Wis. — An 11-year-old girl died after her parents prayed for healing rather than seek medical help for a treatable form of diabetes, police said Tuesday.
Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said Madeline Neumann died Sunday.
"She got sicker and sicker until she was dead," he said.
Vergin said an autopsy determined the girl died from diabetic ketoacidosis, an ailment that left her with too little insulin in her body, and she had probably been ill for about 30 days, suffering symptoms like nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness.
The girl's parents, Dale and Leilani Neumann, attributed the death to "apparently they didn't have enough faith," the police chief said.
They believed the key to healing "was it was better to keep praying. Call more people to help pray," he said.
The mother believes the girl could still be resurrected, the police chief said.
Telephone messages left at the Neumann home by The Associated Press were not immediately returned.
The family does not attend an organized church or participate in an organized religion, Vergin said. "They have a little Bible study of a few people."
The parents told investigators their daughter last saw a doctor when she was 3 to get some shots, Vergin said. The girl had attended public school during the first semester but didn't return for the second semester.
Officers went to the home after one of the girl's relatives in California called police to check on her, Vergin said. She was taken to a hospital where she was pronounced dead.
The relative was fearful the girl was "extremely ill, dire," Vergin said.
The girl has three siblings, ranging in age from 13 to 16, the police chief said.
"They are still in the home," he said. "There is no reason to remove them. There is no abuse or signs of abuse that we can see."
The girl's death remains under investigation and the findings will be forwarded to the district attorney to review for possible charges, the chief said.
The family operates a coffee shop in Weston, which is a suburb of Wausau, Vergin said.
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Posted: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 | PermalinkComments 1 - 50 of 372 |
Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers2. Comment #149726 by Lucas on March 26, 2008 at 7:28 am
Child abuse, pure and simple. These people should be hanged. They're lucky as hell that I'm so far away from Wisconsin. There is no more acute example than this that rationality and science are better tools than belief. Other Comments by Lucas
3. Comment #149727 by 6ai on March 26, 2008 at 7:30 am
"They are still in the home," he said. "There is no reason to remove them. There is no abuse or signs of abuse that we can see." ...
They let one of their kids die, intentionally, lets not forget that. Is this some kind of "better luck with the next one" type of scenario?
Other Comments by 6ai
4. Comment #149728 by SPS on March 26, 2008 at 7:33 am
Tragic and unnecessary. Propagated ignorance has a high price.Other Comments by SPS
5. Comment #149729 by Spinoza on March 26, 2008 at 7:33 am
Lucas, I understand the sentiment, but ignorance, delusion, and stupidity are not fairly punishable by death. Other Comments by Spinoza
6. Comment #149732 by JemyM on March 26, 2008 at 7:34 am
Jail for murder maybe. Other Comments by JemyM
7. Comment #149733 by Quetzalcoatl on March 26, 2008 at 7:36 am
This is a prime example of the stupidity of much of religion. With faith you can move mountains, prayer can heal the ill. Then when people who actually believe that crap try it, this is what happens. Shameful.
The girl has three siblings, ranging in age from 13 to 16, the police chief said.
"They are still in the home," he said. "There is no reason to remove them. There is no abuse or signs of abuse that we can see."
Just wait until one of them gets ill.
JemyM-
they're not evil, just very, very stupid.
Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl
8. Comment #149738 by irate_atheist on March 26, 2008 at 7:38 am
The girl has three siblings, ranging in age from 13 to 16, the police chief said.Who is this man? Mental Mickey?
"They are still in the home," he said. "There is no reason to remove them. There is no abuse or signs of abuse that we can see."
I won't write down what I'd like to see done to these people, I may get banned from this thread as I understand that death threats are not necessarily tolerated.
Other Comments by irate_atheist
9. Comment #149739 by hungarianelephant on March 26, 2008 at 7:39 am
5. Comment #149729 by Spinoza on March 26, 2008 at 7:33 am
Lucas, I understand the sentiment, but ignorance, delusion, and stupidity are not fairly punishable by death.
Apparently they are in this case. It's just that the death is not of the ignorant, delusional and stupid.
Other Comments by hungarianelephant
10. Comment #149740 by padster1976 on March 26, 2008 at 7:40 am
"They are still in the home," he said. "There is no reason to remove them. There is no abuse or signs of abuse that we can see."
Really? Try opening your eyes.
I wonder what D'Snooza says about this.
Other Comments by padster1976
11. Comment #149743 by Rover on March 26, 2008 at 7:41 am
Can't the parents be legally tried for child abuse? They allowed a child in the care to die because they failed to provide medical attention. What will prevent them from doing this again if the other children fall sick?Maybe if they get cancer, they can pray for a miracle and just forget about the chemo? Or how about breast cancer? Will god replace fresh breast tissue and magically dissolve the cancer spreading thru the body...or maybe the radiation will slow down its growth.
NOPE!
Just PRAY...it solves everything medicine DOESN'T do for illness? Yep...close down the labs...fire all the scientists...just pray, pray, pray! And if your kids die, just keep on praying and hope they'll get resurrected!
Delusion at it's finest....RELIGION. Look at what it does. It kills...quite literally this time.
Other Comments by Rover
12. Comment #149744 by Pattern Seeker on March 26, 2008 at 7:42 am
At least file charges for willful negligence. I'm sick and tired (of being sick and tired) of religious mumbo-jumbo always getting some sort of pass. This is child abuse all in the name of some imaginary being. Sometimes humans can make me so frickin' sick... Other Comments by Pattern Seeker
13. Comment #149749 by Rover on March 26, 2008 at 7:49 am
At least file charges for willful negligence.
That is most certainly prosecutable under the eyes of the law.
Other Comments by Rover
14. Comment #149750 by Tyler Durden on March 26, 2008 at 7:50 am
http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080326/WDH0101/803260645&theme=WDHNEUMANN
The Rev. Ted Nelson, leader of Big Church Alive, a nondenominational church in Wausau, said "it's easy to judge a family for doing this or not doing that, but the bottom line is, they did what's best in their heart, and the result turned out to be bad."Idiot!
"I would be the last one to condemn those parents for what they believe," Nelson said. "People are very sincere about their beliefs. But we can be sincerely wrong."
Other Comments by Tyler Durden
15. Comment #149751 by DamnDirtyApe on March 26, 2008 at 7:52 am
Agree with Spinoza and 6ai. Other Comments by DamnDirtyApe
16. Comment #149762 by pulsar1z on March 26, 2008 at 8:05 am
There are some people that just have not evolved intelligence. Other Comments by pulsar1z
17. Comment #149765 by infidel_michael on March 26, 2008 at 8:06 am
"apparently they didn't have enough faith,"Apparently they had it too much ..
Other Comments by infidel_michael
18. Comment #149767 by PJG on March 26, 2008 at 8:09 am
It will be very interesting to see what happens here.
If these parents "did nothing" at all, and allowed their child to die, I suspect they would be charged (maybe manslaughter or wilful neglect?) I wonder if they will be treated differently because they "did nothing" by praying.
A test case for just what sort of a "pass" faith gets?
Other Comments by PJG
19. Comment #149768 by suffolkthinker on March 26, 2008 at 8:10 am
The Rev. Ted Nelson, leader of Big Church Alive, a nondenominational church in Wausau, said "it's easy to judge a family for doing this or not doing that, but the bottom line is, they did what's best in their heart, and the result turned out to be bad."If they are "sincerely wrong" and it just affects them, no problem for anyone but themselves. When it affects the lives of children it is simply them being sincerely evil.
"I would be the last one to condemn those parents for what they believe," Nelson said. "People are very sincere about their beliefs. But we can be sincerely wrong."
What happens next will be a good (or should that be sad?) test of the justice system where they live. Anything short of a long custodial sentence and their children be placed in the care of genuinely caring adopted parents will be frankly scandalous. Ok, I *might* allow them to section the parents for life under the local equivalent of the Mental Health Act as an alternative to prison.
Other Comments by suffolkthinker
20. Comment #149769 by Bertybob on March 26, 2008 at 8:12 am
The girl's parents, Dale and Leilani Neumann, attributed the death to "apparently they didn't have enough faith," the police chief said.
Didn't have enough intelligence more like!! Brains the size of a walnut.
They should face legal consequences. Child neglect for starters and work up from there.
Other Comments by Bertybob
21. Comment #149771 by Quetzalcoatl on March 26, 2008 at 8:12 am
My thoughts on this and the article Tyler found:
http://musingsofastrangemind.blogspot.com/2008/03/power-of-prayer.html
Probably the most I've sworn in a blog post.
Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl
22. Comment #149773 by evolver23 on March 26, 2008 at 8:13 am
I am sick to my stomach. This is one of the saddest stories I've heard in some time. I can only imagine (and not very well at that) the suffering this poor girl experienced over a period of a month in her parents utterly idiotic and condemnable hands. It reminds me that we are not only fighting for philosophical truths and freedom of speech, but, quite often, for life itself, and the well-being of humankind.Other Comments by evolver23
23. Comment #149775 by alfonso on March 26, 2008 at 8:14 am
"There is no abuse or signs of abuse that we can see"If being dead is not sign enough, what is?
Other Comments by alfonso
24. Comment #149777 by annabanana on March 26, 2008 at 8:16 am
If not willful homicide, at least negligent homicide.And...
"They are still in the home," he said. "There is no reason to remove them. There is no abuse or signs of abuse that we can see."
Really? Allowing their sibling to die by inaction isn't a sign of abuse? Sometimes I detest being part of this species.
Other Comments by annabanana
25. Comment #149779 by forksmuggler on March 26, 2008 at 8:17 am
I agree with evolver23. As angry as this makes me, I'm more saddened than anything. Other Comments by forksmuggler
26. Comment #149782 by Richard Morgan on March 26, 2008 at 8:19 am
Vergin said an autopsy determined the girl died from diabetic ketoacidosis, an ailment that left her with too little insulin in her body, and she had probably been ill for about 30 days, suffering symptoms like nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness.So for a month they watched their little girl suffer in order to play mind games with their faith. because it is clear that these parents were more concerned with THEIR relationship with the ALMIGHTY than with their daughter's suffering. That is what is so horrible about this kind of murderous stupidity. "We're going to cure our daughter by praying." The proof of this self-centred approach is in their reaction : " apparently they didn't have enough faith." Doctors couldn't intervene, God wouldn't - so it was all down to the parents magic words - prayer.
THAT is why their other children should be removed. The parents are likely to believe that their faith will be stronger next time. Letting the first daughter die was just a sort of spiritual warming up.
Other Comments by Richard Morgan
27. Comment #149785 by squinky on March 26, 2008 at 8:21 am
These type of stories haunt me. As a father, I can only imagine what the poor child is going through as her kidneys shut down and she fades in and out of diabetic shock:
"Mom, Dad, help me!"
[praying] "We are honey, we're doing our best."
She is the innocent victim of religion. Her parents feel guilty because they 'didn't have enough faith', because God didn't deem them worthy enough to save their child. Actually, they ARE not worthy--to be parents. Their reproductive rights should be stripped by the State (cut Dad's balls off and fill Mom's vagina with hot wax).
I can only imagine that these 'parents' are guilty of criminal negligence much like leaving a child unattended in a hot car to die.
Other Comments by squinky
28. Comment #149787 by esuther on March 26, 2008 at 8:23 am
There are other lunatic sects in the US which refuse medical treatment, for themselves and for their children, and surely there have been similar cases which have created legal precedents. I seem to remember a case where a blood transfusion was refused and the child died, but I can't remember where. Unfortunately, I believe (correct me if anyone knows better) these would be state laws, and thus not uniform throughout the US.Regardless of the legal outcome, it is clearly the most extreme (and poignant) example of what RD refers to as the religious abuse of children. I am aghast that the other children are allowed to remain in the home. Surely at some point or other, one of them will get sick.
Esuther
Other Comments by esuther
29. Comment #149789 by Kubenzi on March 26, 2008 at 8:24 am
look on the bright side guys.like the mother said,she might be resurrected Other Comments by Kubenzi
30. Comment #149790 by irate_atheist on March 26, 2008 at 8:24 am
26. Comment #149782 by Richard Morgan -
Good grief. Once again I find myself strangely compelled to agree with you.
Other Comments by irate_atheist
31. Comment #149794 by 0strich on March 26, 2008 at 8:27 am
those parents should be dragged into an alley and shot...And we're the ones without morals? Give me a break - I'd do absolutely whatever I needed to, to save one of my children. It literally makes me sick to my stomach to think that she died such a horrible and painful death.
Other Comments by 0strich
32. Comment #149797 by Klaatu barada nikto on March 26, 2008 at 8:33 am
I was sickened when I read about similar cases in the book "God versus the Gavel".http://www.amazon.com/God-vs-Gavel-Religion-Rule/dp/0521853044
Parents most certainly have a legal responsibility to take care of their children.
The mother believes the girl could still be resurrected
Mom is f*cking nuts. Get the remaining three kids out now.
Other Comments by Klaatu barada nikto
33. Comment #149798 by Quetzalcoatl on March 26, 2008 at 8:33 am
A cynical person might wonder whether the parents would be so eager to trust in the power of prayer if they were the ones suffering from illness. For instance, from the sickening agony of a burst appendix. How keen would they then be to put their faith in God over modern medicine? Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl
34. Comment #149800 by irate_atheist on March 26, 2008 at 8:36 am
33. Comment #149798 by Quetzalcoatl -
I'll give you odds of 7/4 that they would just pray. Easiest money I'll ever make...
Other Comments by irate_atheist
35. Comment #149801 by heafnerj on March 26, 2008 at 8:37 am
Only in America....where child abuse is defended on religious grounds. Other Comments by heafnerj
36. Comment #149805 by Quetzalcoatl on March 26, 2008 at 8:44 am
Irate-
I'll take those odds. Cynicism has always served me well. And it tells me that it's so much easier to be pious when you're not the one doubled over in agony.
Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl
37. Comment #149806 by Kubenzi on March 26, 2008 at 8:46 am
UMMMMM....http://www.americaslastdays.com/?page=poetry-neumann
http://www.americaslastdays.com/_pf.php?page=theyshall-leilani
if there was any doubt the mother is crazy,there shouldnt be now
Other Comments by Kubenzi
38. Comment #149811 by AllanW on March 26, 2008 at 8:49 am
Wow. Sickened by the story and by the links above; a truly disturbed woman. Other Comments by AllanW
39. Comment #149812 by epeeist on March 26, 2008 at 8:51 am
Comment #149801 by heafnerj
Only in America....where child abuse is defended on religious grounds.
Not quite - http://www.tamesideadvertiser.co.uk/news/s/1026293_savage_attack_on_boy_by_imam
Small slap on the wrist. Replace "imam" by "teacher" and think of what the judge would have said.
Other Comments by epeeist
40. Comment #149813 by Klaatu barada nikto on March 26, 2008 at 8:52 am
Only in America....where child abuse is defended on religious grounds
Only in America?
Not by a long shot.
Other Comments by Klaatu barada nikto
41. Comment #149815 by HitbLade on March 26, 2008 at 8:54 am
Wow, that is dumb. Not enough faith!? Explain to me how the "faith-meter" works again...? "Believe harder, of find more people to believe! Damn it, we failed to reach the "heal diabetes level".Other Comments by HitbLade
42. Comment #149817 by robotaholic on March 26, 2008 at 8:57 am
The remaining children are so abused they might as well live with Michael Jackson Other Comments by robotaholic
43. Comment #149821 by hoops mccann on March 26, 2008 at 9:08 am
"They are still in the home," he said. "There is no reason to remove them. There is no abuse or signs of abuse that we can see."
Death isn't a sign of abuse????!!!!
Other Comments by hoops mccann
44. Comment #149822 by bucketchemist on March 26, 2008 at 9:08 am
Solution: Give Mum and Dad lethal injections and let them pray their way out of that. Other Comments by bucketchemist
45. Comment #149824 by Fire1974 on March 26, 2008 at 9:10 am
The girl's parents, Dale and Leilani Neumann, attributed the death to "apparently they didn't have enough faith," the police chief said.
No Mr. & Mrs. Neumann, you have perfect faith, the exact perfect faith the Bible prescribes. The stuff of flying mountains! Abraham is jealous! There's not enough people left who actually DO what the Bible says.
Congratulations!
Other Comments by Fire1974
46. Comment #149825 by Ygern on March 26, 2008 at 9:11 am
There is no abuse or signs of abuse that we can see
Except for a dead, innocent child?
Ironically enough, I think the police would have no problem in condemning someone who deliberately witheld food from their child as punishment.
Morons all round in this case.
Tragic.
Other Comments by Ygern
47. Comment #149827 by pewkatchoo on March 26, 2008 at 9:17 am
Not convinced. They could be hiding behind their beliefs here. This needs to be investigated more thoroughly. It is manslaughter at best, but if they are simply hiding behind the stupidity of religion then it is murder. Other Comments by pewkatchoo
48. Comment #149830 by Partisan on March 26, 2008 at 9:27 am
The mother believes the girl could still be resurrected
I wouldn't hold your breath.
Incidentally, isn't this evidence enough the woman is completely divorced of reality?
Other Comments by Partisan
49. Comment #149832 by Luthien on March 26, 2008 at 9:31 am
11. Comment #149743 by Rover on March 26, 2008 at 7:41 am
...Maybe if they get cancer, they can pray for a miracle and just forget about the chemo?
Someone in my extended family actually did this to himself, because his prayer group convinced him that they could save him with prayer. Obviously he died (a very young man), and drove his parents and siblings to understandable distraction. My parents had attended the prayer group a few years before this occurred (on his invitation), and I remember they came home with all sorts of nutty ideas about praying out Satan etc. before they finally wised up and left.
...and this wasn't in the bible belt of America, this was in Northern Ireland!!!
Other Comments by Luthien
50. Comment #149835 by Frankus1122 on March 26, 2008 at 9:35 am
Just this morning a friend asked why it bothers me so much that people believe in nonsense.
I am emailing him the link to this page.
Other Comments by Frankus1122
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1. Comment #149723 by JemyM on March 26, 2008 at 7:24 am
Other Comments by JemyM