Friday, March 28, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version

I always aim to misbehave

by PZ Myers, Pharyngula

Reposted from:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/03/i_always_aim_to_misbehave.php

Some of you know that the producers of Expelled had a conference call this afternoon…a carefully controlled, closed environment in which they would spout their nonsense and only take questions by email. I listened to it for a while, and yeah, it was the usual run-around. However, I dialed in a few minutes early, and got to listen to a tiresome five minutes of Leslie and Paul chatting away, during which time they mentioned the secret code (DUNH DUNH DUNNNNH!) for the two way calls. I know. Sloppy, unprofessional, and stupid, but that's the way they work.

So … I redialed. (DUNH DUNH DUNNNNH!)

Then I listened along quietly until I could take no more.

They repeated the usual lies (the Minneapolis event was a private screening [which was publicly linked on the web, where any idiot could get to it]; their blog was #1 on blogpulse [near as I can tell, it wasn't—it was my exposure of their hypocrisy that was #1]; they didn't lie to get interviews [totally bogus], etc.). They made amusing contradictions. Walt Ruloff first claims that the genesis of the movie was in 2006, when he claims to have started investigating biotechnology and discovered that there are "questions that can't be asked" and that people were suppressing information that called Darwinism into doubt — note, though, that he never stated what those unnameable questions are. A moment later Mark Mathis comes on to say that the subject of the film was a work in progress, that they hadn't settled anything, and that the name wasn't even decided upon. Come on, they registered expelledthemovie.com in early 2007, well before they asked us to be interviewed.

They threw out a bunch of softball questions to Ben Stein: "How can you be so intelligent and question Darwinism?", I kid you not.

One good question got through on email: KMOX radio contested the claim that there was no distortion of the interviews of Dawkins and Myers because they surrounded the interviews with film clips of Nazis — I think it's obvious how they were trying to bias the discussion, and I was floored by Stein's reply. He wanted more goose-stepping Nazis all over the place.

This was all a great deal to stomach, but I restrained myself. Then Mathis really started to lie: he said that all anybody ever blogged about was distractions, and several times he claimed that we never addressed the content of the movie. Let's set aside the rank hypocrisy of expelling the people interviewed in the movie from screenings so we couldn't see it; it's simply not true. We have blogged extensively on the ridiculous premise at the heart of the movie, that the Holocaust was a consequence of evolutionary theory.

Here's one of my entries in this subject.

Here's Richard Dawkins' review, which discusses the bogus Nazi connection quite a bit. Josh Timonen, of the RDF, also saw the movie.

John Wilkins has an excellent post on Darwinism and racism.

The Panda's Thumb has discussed the false connection several times.

So I interrupted. I said, in essence, hang on -- you guys are spinning out a lot of lies here, you should be called on it. I gave a quick gloss on it, and said that, for instance, anti-semitism has a long history in Germany that preceded Darwin, and that they ought to look up the word "pogrom". There was some mad rustling and flustering about on the other side of the phone some complaints, etc., and then one of them asked me to do the honorable thing and hang up…so I said yes, I would do the honorable thing and hang up while they continued the dishonorable thing and continued to lie.

Then I announced that if any reporters were listening in, they could contact me at pzmyers@gmail.com and I'd be happy to talk to them.

So excuse me, I've got a few dozen emails in my inbox right now.

More accounts of the press conference:

Evolved and rational

Life without faith

SkepChick recorded it!

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1. Comment #151526 by Elles on March 28, 2008 at 11:56 pm

Ah... I just love it more and more. Anything that's bad for the Expelled folks is good for us.

Other Comments by Elles

2. Comment #151529 by Richard Dawkins on March 29, 2008 at 12:10 am

PZ is a priceless asset, a hero of our time.

By the way, he has another excellent article over at Pharyngula, where he makes the point that, to the extent that Hitler and the eugenicists borrowed anything from Darwinism, they borrowed from the OBVIOUS part that everybody knew for centuries before Darwin, namely ARTIFICIAL selection. Everybody knew how to breed cattle for milk, flowers for colour, horses for speed and so on. That was what Hitler and the eugenicists tried to apply to humans. Darwin's genius was to see that NATURE might do the same thing as human breeders, and hence produce all of life including the illusion of design. See 'The Simple Falsehood at the Heart of Expelled.'

Richard

Other Comments by Richard Dawkins

3. Comment #151536 by DasSquid on March 29, 2008 at 12:20 am

PZ... I... I think I love you.

Just... wow.

Indeed he is certainly a hero. Striving to sew chaos in the already chaotic world of these nincompoops. But of course, the likely outcome of all this will be them having a go at PZ for being 'shifty' in obtaining the two-way call function, for which it was already obviously the radio station's fault. (The previous sentence is obviously taking PZ's word as truth in the matter.) If we could possibly get an mp3 of either the entire show or even just of a short leadup to PZ's butting in and their reactions, I would like to have a few belly laughs tonight!

Edit: Oh, silly me, thanks to SkepChick, downloaded and... listening to it in a moment. Ah, poorish quality... anyone got a better quality?

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4. Comment #151537 by Steve Zara on March 29, 2008 at 12:22 am

So excuse me, I've got a few dozen emails in my inbox right now.

I'll bet he does!

Nice work, PZ.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

5. Comment #151539 by Diacanu on March 29, 2008 at 12:28 am

Ahh, finally, a pick-me-up to mend an otherwise glum and boring day.

:D

Other Comments by Diacanu

6. Comment #151541 by Quine on March 29, 2008 at 12:33 am

I am starting to feel sorry for these guys. Wasn't it F. Gump who said, "stupid is as stupid does"?

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7. Comment #151554 by DamnDirtyApe on March 29, 2008 at 1:13 am

Right on. Keep exposing their lies and stupidity!

Wow, and I never knew about pogrom...

Other Comments by DamnDirtyApe

8. Comment #151556 by Barry Pearson on March 29, 2008 at 1:21 am

Nearly but not quite off-topic - words can't describe this, it has to be seen. (4 minutes).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaGgpGLxLQw

Other Comments by Barry Pearson

9. Comment #151561 by Philip1978 on March 29, 2008 at 1:42 am

Well, my cup of Tea is firmly held high in a massive cheers for PZ, if this is not a definition of a hoopy frood who knows where his towel is, I don't know what would be!

Funny this whole mentioning of Hitler, after reading through all the things that the Expelled crew have been blathering on about Nazis I remembered a well known phrase of Hitler's. The bigger the lie, the more people will believe it - now, is it me, or are Mathis, Stein & co lying their arses off to make this look like it was in fact all the atheists fault?

Everybody should know that PZ did nothing wrong in any of this and that the Expelled crew over-reacted, but it is obvious, at least to me, that they are now lying so that atheists are seen in a bad light in the Christian community. Do they think if they keep repeating the same bullshit over and over again, people will actually rally to their cause?

I am very glad there are people like PZ, PZ's daughter, Richard, Josh - anyone who has contributed into bringing into light what has really happened- who are showing these guys as to what they are really doing - shooting themselves in the foot with a bazooka!

Go gettem!

Philip

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10. Comment #151563 by Steve Zara on March 29, 2008 at 1:51 am

This kind of action is precisely what is needed. I have expressed that I am not convinced that blogging alone is that useful in moving the debate forward. Part of the reason for this is that you just end up with two groups expressing opposing points of view, mostly to their own supporters. However, it seems that PZ has got reporters involved, and can reveal to them the lies and factual errors in the film. This is a useful step forward, and will, hopefully, raise the media profile of the discussion above the appearance of two sides each accusing each other.

This was hugely cheering.

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11. Comment #151564 by lievemebe on March 29, 2008 at 1:55 am

Comment #151561 by Philip1978

Everybody should know that PZ did nothing wrong in any of this and that the Expelled crew over-reacted, but it is obvious, at least to me, that they are now lying so that atheists are seen in a bad light in the Christian community.

How right you are. This Expelled saga has been very instructive in helping me to be better equipped in dealing with what I reckon will be a rising tide of desperation by the IDiots.

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12. Comment #151569 by will young on March 29, 2008 at 2:13 am

The real wild child.

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13. Comment #151575 by BicycleRepairMan on March 29, 2008 at 2:22 am

PZ Myers, biologist, atheist, blogger and the holder of the Chair For the Public Humiliation of Creationists at The University of Minnesota

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14. Comment #151584 by bnightm on March 29, 2008 at 2:50 am

#8 Barry Pearson: That video could use it's own news entry. I think it's hilarious and well made, even if it misrepresents the status of ID-proponents.

I wonder if it's part of the expelled movie, "bowling for columbine"-style. Since they use the 'Expelled' logo in it. Then again, it's almost too funny to consider.

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15. Comment #151588 by mmurray on March 29, 2008 at 3:09 am

Good job!

I was watching the head of the UN tonight complaining about the dutch movie about Islam and wondered when he would complain about Expelled making false links between evolution and nazism.

Michael

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16. Comment #151594 by Titus on March 29, 2008 at 3:25 am

That's the second time in the last few days that PZed has had me in hysterics.
Keep it up PZed, you're a star.

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17. Comment #151605 by nanaj on March 29, 2008 at 3:50 am

Barry Pearson: Thanks for that video clip - I think it's really funny and well produced (I love Dan Dennet in his Patron outfit!): I know its meant to be insulting, but I think it might turn out the opposite, because it reminded me of this:

In the early 70s when the UK populace were all fed up with union strikes, the pop group 'Strawbs' did a spoof song called 'Part of the Union' - it was meant to hold the Unions up to ridicule and comtempt - but it ended up a big hit for the group and giving the unions a boost because people all over the country were singing the catchy chorus "You don't get me I'm part of the union"- let's hope this video shares that fate!

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18. Comment #151608 by _J_ on March 29, 2008 at 4:00 am

Ah, wonderful stuff. PZ: thank you for continuing to exercise your talent for revealing this lot to be the bunch of ladder-waving, banana-skin-dropping, Ming-vase-juggling clowns that they are.

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19. Comment #151610 by Barry Pearson on March 29, 2008 at 4:03 am

nanaj:

Is it meant to be insulting? There is no consensus at YouTube. Some think it is pro-atheist pro-science irony/sarcasm. I suspect the same.

I would love to know what Eugenie Scott would think of her role in it!

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20. Comment #151616 by Enlightenme.. on March 29, 2008 at 4:10 am

Love the utube vid, the bit where Dennett jumps up from the bottom of the screen goin' Yeah! is good, but the Eugenie as an underdressed little girl is a bit iffy!

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21. Comment #151626 by phatbat on March 29, 2008 at 4:38 am

Fantastic.

I wonder how long it will be before a fellow pro evolutionist comes on and complains that PZ and this site still won't let this all drop - obviously completely missing the potential danger a movie like expelled represents to the minds of the religiously indoctrinated.

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22. Comment #151632 by Logicel on March 29, 2008 at 5:12 am

Richard D writes: PZ is a priceless asset, a hero of our time.
____

That comment is why I admire RD so much, he gets the essentials quickly.

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23. Comment #151638 by Saerain on March 29, 2008 at 5:38 am

I was twistedly amused by Hitchens' headband.

What a thread hijack, though.

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24. Comment #151640 by Lionel A on March 29, 2008 at 5:46 am

7. Comment #151554 by DamnDirtyApe on March 29, 2008 at 1:13 am

'...Wow, and I never knew about pogrom...'

You would have if you had read Martin Gilbert's three volume 'History of the 20th Century' anybody would think he had a mission in this as he describes pogroms so often that other events are lightly treated or missed, including momentous occurrences in both WW1 and WW2.

Back on topic.

Well done PZ. Spot on as ever.

I looked here after having read his post on Pharyngula first.

Interesting proof that evolution is still occurring and with a story involving Oxford UK.

The rat population is increasing due mostly to fast food and associated wasteful habits by humans and the lack of 'joined-up-thinking' by those in charge, or rather who should be in charge, of controlling the waste problem.

It would appear that a 'super-rat' has evolved that has an extra gene showing up on tests that increases resistance to the usual poison used for rodent control - an anti-coagulant (Warfarin). One expert understands the position very well by pointing out that increasing the use of the poisoned bate will cause selection pressure in favour of the mutant rat.

http://www.thisisoxfordshire.co.uk/display.var.2156005.0.super_rat_arrives_in_city.php

Oxford is not alone with this problem.

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25. Comment #151655 by mmurray on March 29, 2008 at 6:25 am

Interesting proof that evolution is still occurring and with a story involving Oxford UK.

Except the IDers will say that they know about this kind of evolution and what they don't believe in is new species arising.

Michael

Other Comments by mmurray

26. Comment #151656 by Frankus1122 on March 29, 2008 at 6:26 am

Barry Pearson, I love that video.

the bit where Dennett jumps up from the bottom of the screen goin' Yeah! is good

Yeah!

I feel it's important to be able to laugh at yourself. I think it is a sign of confidence and maturity.

Steve Zara
However, it seems that PZ has got reporters involved, and can reveal to them the lies and factual errors in the film. This is a useful step forward, and will, hopefully, raise the media profile of the discussion above the appearance of two sides each accusing each other.

I do hope you're right. But let's just wait and see how the media handle all this.
Apparently sometimes even journalists have an "agenda"

Thus the importance of 'critical thinking skills' being taught in our schools. (I'm weaving threads).

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27. Comment #151660 by evaporated on March 29, 2008 at 6:31 am

Ben Stein,

What a tool. I wonder if he would be as supportive of historians who are expelled from history departments for questioning the Holocaust? You can't be a biologist (or any scientist) and teach unscientific things like a math teacher can't question the structure of arithmetic of a drivier ed instructor can't teach that speed limits, stop signs, and red lights are mere suggestions...

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28. Comment #151663 by Jack Rawlinson on March 29, 2008 at 6:42 am

PZ's been on a roll lately. I really enjoyed this little satire of the whole Evolution = Nazism nonsense (see link below).

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/03/why_we_need_academic_freedomto.php

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29. Comment #151684 by sarah95 on March 29, 2008 at 7:49 am

PZ is a priceless asset, a hero of our time.

Ha! A hero lauding a hero! Great!

Since all this expelled nonsense has happened, I've been thinking of a song by The Killers (one of their songs was perhaps mischeviously used in Expelled) called "Andy you're a star", with the title in the chorus, and I've been singing "PZ you're a star!" for a while now. Even theists I know who detest ID have heard of PZ now...great!

And RD, if you visit this thread again, go watch the video that Barry Pearson put up! It's a good laugh!

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30. Comment #151686 by sarah95 on March 29, 2008 at 7:50 am

When I said "A hero lauding a hero!" I meant to indicate that the quote I referenced was RD's.

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31. Comment #151702 by TheSwede on March 29, 2008 at 8:26 am

Why do they lie so big?

I've read quite a few creationist/apologetic books in my days and I must say that there are some arguments that could be presented in a discussion, some things that could be brought up that would not suffer direct ridicule. Most of them can easily be solved but they could still be convincing to an ignorant or religious mind.

So why have the Expelled producers set out to lie so big, I wonder? Why do they claim such obvious falsehoods? Such as could be debunked even by none-scientific everyday journalists at the local newspaper?

Maybe they've read Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf and found the passage about lying big as a useful propaganda tool. Hitler says that you should lie so big that no one would believe that you "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously".

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32. Comment #151708 by Mark Smith on March 29, 2008 at 8:37 am

If you go here http://atheismsucks.blogspot.com/2008/03/behind-scenes-sort-of-with-ben-stein.html there is a 3-part video of Ben Stein talking with a theologian about Expelled. I've watched the first part only. The quality of thinking is pretty dire in my opinion.

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33. Comment #151724 by Nova on March 29, 2008 at 8:56 am

Barry Pearson: Nearly but not quite off-topic - words can't describe this, it has to be seen. (4 minutes).

Barry Pearson: Is it meant to be insulting? There is no consensus at YouTube. Some think it is pro-atheist pro-science irony/sarcasm. I suspect the same.

The part where a scientist in a lab supposedly discovers something "else" than evolution not to mention that he gets thrown out and the
'Expelled' logo is shown promenently shows this to probably be meant to be insulting (as well as the whole 'science machine' keeping scientists in order theme). Though maybe not as Robert Maynard wrote No 73 at http://richarddawkins.net/articleComments,2409,Beware-the-Believers,RandomSlice,page2#comments the richarddawkins.net entry on this

Robert Maynard: that the ID metaphor of persecution is being subverted for laughs, as if Dawkins is responding to this complaint with "Yes, we're totally doing that... biaatch!"

it could be a parody of the ID new 'were being persecuted' tactic.

I noticed extreme irony in it at one point - there is a part where the RD charecter holds up a dollar and says something like its all for the money "I'll still be poppin' my collar earning more dollars than Allah". This is amazingly hypocritical considering the vast wealth that the religious leaders steal from their followers. From the televangelists adding "donations to the lawd" to their own pockets, to the convert-taxing vatican to the huge oil weath of the Saudi king and Sultan of Brunei, the religious leaders are rich around the world.

As Richard Dawkins said at TED (http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/113) the religious lobby is massively financed and the main reason he was appealing to TED was precisely because he didn't have the money (and by extension, atheism doesn't) to found an atheist Templeton Foundation equivelent (and by extension, to rival the wealth of the religious in general). The religious must literally be thousands of times richer than sceptics. The ticket to heaven is expensive and the religious leaders play the ticket sellers!

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34. Comment #151729 by Frankus1122 on March 29, 2008 at 9:08 am

TheSwede,

So why have the Expelled producers set out to lie so big, I wonder?

Years ago I watched a tv show called 'Witness to Yesterday'. The host interviewed characters from history. He asked Rasputin why were so many lies told about him. Rasputin's response was, "If you throw enough bullshit at a wall, some of it will stick."

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35. Comment #151758 by robotaholic on March 29, 2008 at 10:21 am

Sometimes I get to thinking that PZ is an immature guy & I forget that he's an American Biology Professor who works with evolutionary developmental biology and has an asteroid named in his honnor (Asteroid 153298 Paulmyers is named in his honor.) lol

I've always liked pharyngula - it's a great blog

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36. Comment #151787 by D'Arcy on March 29, 2008 at 11:39 am

Lenin said: "A lie told often enough becomes the truth". In this case, Mathis , Stein etc. are hoping that the Christian friendly US media will tell the lies on their behalf, and that their version "becomes the truth".

Whether or not PZ was invited, misbehaved, or is indeed lying himself, pales into insignificance with the lies that these mainly Christian creationists are stating as God given truths; i.e. that the universe and the Earth is 6004 years old, Adam and Eve were the first humans and so on.

The movie apparently suggests that creationist scientists are being expelled from their labs because of their religious beliefs. I suspect the truth is more like creationists are being expelled from their labs because they can't or won't do the science. Dishonest bastards!

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37. Comment #151799 by Jack Rawlinson on March 29, 2008 at 12:27 pm

By the way, that hilarious video Barry Pearson linked is obviously on our side. I can't believe the number of people who don't get that. I guess some folk have a missing satire/irony gland... :-)

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38. Comment #151804 by clunkclickeverytrip on March 29, 2008 at 12:44 pm

I assume PZ hasn't hurt his chances of an Oxford position with all that has transpired recently - a biologist is an obvious choice for continuing RD's good work.

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39. Comment #151806 by axisaudio on March 29, 2008 at 12:45 pm

Dr. Myers, I listened to that conference call and I have to agree with your friend's {Professor Dawkins'} advice - to snub them. You see, Ben Stein and Matthis do not afford you the same privileges of free speech that you're willing to give to them. Giving them the privilege of free speech just gives guys like that ammunition to take it away from you. More importantly, by allowing them to debate or even attending conferences on intelligent design you give intelligent design a false sense of importance - when in fact there is none. We don't hold debates as to whether or not the angles in a triangle add up to 180 degrees or whether or not 2 2 = 4 or whether or not you can have squarecircles or circular triangles. If anyone held a conference or a debate about the previous things I mentioned without a shred of evidence and based purely on ignorance I don't think you would waste your time attending. Dr. Myers, the more you indulge them by allowing them to express these arguments from ignorance that are used to support their theory â€" the more you make people believe that the ideas of intelligent design have some sort of importance when it in fact has none. The proper attitude to adopt is to sit back, relax, eat some pop corn, crack a beer open, and laugh as they make utter fools of themselves.

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40. Comment #151808 by whiterocker on March 29, 2008 at 12:46 pm

All this serious attention to such a silly movie is odd. Makes me wonder if these guys aren't all in cahoots. I mean, what better way to make fun of creationist than to make some craptastic movie and stage incidents like being ejected from a screening and popping into a conference call? Strikes me odd to have serious scientists paying so much attention to something so crass, and Ben Stein strikes me too intelligent to actually believe the premise of "Expelled", and a capable enough actor to be a double-agent.

Where did I leave my tinfoil hat again? Beuller? Beuller?

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41. Comment #151810 by kintaro_crab on March 29, 2008 at 12:53 pm

hahahaha, PZ Myers strikes again.

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42. Comment #151828 by Nova on March 29, 2008 at 2:07 pm

Jack Rawlinson: By the way, that hilarious video Barry Pearson linked is obviously on our side. I can't believe the number of people who don't get that. I guess some folk have a missing satire/irony gland... :-)

I wouldn't jump to conclusions, I understand satire/irony very well but I am still undecided as to whether it is on our side. Sometimes things are done so overtly people think it must be satire, but the designers may just not know subtlety. On the other hand, I understand what your saying because we must be wary of Poe's Law: Any parody of fundamentalism will be mistaken by someone for the real thing by someone.

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43. Comment #151844 by Mitchell Gilks on March 29, 2008 at 2:47 pm

Good to hear. PZ is a man on a mission, and he will not stop until he informs as many people as possible of their dishonesty, and underhanded tactics. GO PZ!

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44. Comment #151879 by agg on March 29, 2008 at 3:54 pm

I am of two minds about this. I like the way PZ confronts the IDiots and exposes their lies at every opportunity he gets. He seems to be singlehandedly destroying the movie. I am simply in awe because of this.

On the other hand, I think this particular episode may backfire. The "Expelled from Expelled" situation was a complete own goal by the creationists: it was hard to not be sympathetic to the scientist who was interviewed for the movie and then refused entry (in addition to the multiple levels of irony). In this case, though, PZ looks more like the mad scientist type --- someone who's obsessed with these people and just can't let go.

In an ideal world, we should be able to let other people say what they have to say (i.e. have their press conference) and if there's something they say we don't quite agree with, we can always issue a rebuttal (perhaps even have a formal discussion or a debate about it) and let those on the side make their minds up. Of course, this world is far from ideal and we all see that the creationists don't play by the rules and avoid any honest attempt at level-playing field, as clearly demonstrated here by the tightly controlled press conference. So, I don't really know what the best approach against this is. It looks like PZ's at least has a good chance of producing results.

As for the video: absolutely hilarious. I don't think the authors are in any of the "pro" or "against" camps though. I think they are against both creationists and what they must perceive as dogmatic scientists/atheists.

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45. Comment #151884 by B12 on March 29, 2008 at 4:02 pm

Does anyone wonder how the Jewish people of the world will react to EVOLUTION=NAZISM, found within the Expelled film?

I'm reminded of the time a group of Jewish students on my campus protested a visiting anti-abortion organization. The organization (don't remember the name) compared ABORTION to the HOLOCAUST by superimposing images of aborted fetuses with mass graves of Jews.

Love the PZ post, as most of his posts!

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46. Comment #151902 by Enlightenme.. on March 29, 2008 at 4:30 pm

Re; post #35

Here is a link to the whole Ben Stein interview, it's good:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4609561480192587449&hl=en

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47. Comment #151964 by dragonfirematrix on March 29, 2008 at 7:11 pm

PZ, you exposed the lies of the idiots in a most beautiful way. I venture to say I might not have been so cool about the whole thing.

In fact, if I may be so bold to less eloquently describe my way...

You gave those producers, who corner with the religious reich, a well deserved (and very professionally delivered, I might add) bitch-slapping.

Nice job!

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48. Comment #151988 by AtheistAspy on March 29, 2008 at 9:54 pm

That's all well and good, but this story is getting old fast. Me thinks this is a case of megalomania run amuck.

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49. Comment #151995 by HappyPrimate on March 29, 2008 at 11:01 pm

The older crowd, ones who remember WWII, were indoctrinated with the idea that Hitler was a big fan of Darwin and used Darwin's books to come up with the famous eugenics idea. My parents who lived through the war as teens use Hitler to critize Darwinism as bad and evil. While I obviously disagree with them, I can see where the film Expelled would resonate with people like my parents who have already been fed the lies for years. It never occurs to these people to actually read Darwin's books when they have people like these ready to back up the misconceptions. This film is dangerous if it is allowed any credibility.

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50. Comment #151996 by Bigorra on March 30, 2008 at 12:00 am

It's a good thing PZ refuses to back down from the crew of Expelled, since they continue to obfuscate. The idea that more people are visiting his blog than the Expelled website makes my day. Good job, PZ!

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