1. Comment #152862 by DasSquid on March 31, 2008 at 4:48 pm

Ah, this only generally happens because of the punishment one receives for not being part of said religion.

In a Muslim country dominated by Sharia law, one would assume that if you didn't know the ins and outs of the Muslim religion, you wouldn't be having many more breakfasts, whereas in the European 'Catholic' dominated countries, the award for not going to church or believing in the sky fairy is an extra day to sleep in. Not everyone who is born into the catholic faith MUST be catholic methinks, however we all know the penalties if you even SLIGHT the islamic faiths.

Bah.

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2. Comment #152869 by Opisthokont on March 31, 2008 at 4:54 pm

It amazes me that the Catholic Church regards its particular branch of Christianity as being as distinct from all others as any of them are from Islam. It amazes me more that the Catholic Church ignores the massive rifts separating Sunni from Shi'ite from a number of other sects of Islam. I suppose that this is just the Catholic superiority complex asserting itself once again, but it still amazes me.

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3. Comment #152874 by elise97 on March 31, 2008 at 4:58 pm

yes catholicism is a 'mere' sub division of a bigger religion and not strictly comparable in grouping terms to islam, which is a whole damn religion, encompassing many sub divisions.

so, they shouldnt worry too much. christianity is still by far the worlds biggest delusion.

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4. Comment #152875 by Inferno on March 31, 2008 at 4:58 pm

"It is true that while Muslim families, as is well known, continue to make a lot of children, Christian ones on the contrary tend to have fewer and fewer," the monsignor said

Which probably makes a mockery of the whole "no condoms" thing the catholic elite keep pushing.

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5. Comment #152877 by Goldy on March 31, 2008 at 4:59 pm

I had a titter at tyhis meaningless statistic too, but then, China sees Catholicism as distinct from Christianity too - I wonder what the Holy See has been doing behind our backs...

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6. Comment #152882 by Partisan on March 31, 2008 at 5:06 pm

The bigger they are, the harder they fall.

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7. Comment #152894 by Enlightenme.. on March 31, 2008 at 5:18 pm

I have a suggestion - seeing as the Vatican now recognises the ToE, a quite easy further step would be to pass an edict imbueing all subjects of the class Primates, or the order Chordata with a soul, then decree that all water on the Earth is holy water so that they self-baptise.

Either that or sabotage the condoms.

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8. Comment #152904 by al-rawandi on March 31, 2008 at 5:26 pm

DasSquid,



If you are born into a Muslim family and you choose, after puberty, to not practice Islam, you can be put to death.

I don't beleive the Catholics, counting all of their disgusting doctrines, have a comparable doctrine. At least not anymore.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

9. Comment #152906 by CruciFiction on March 31, 2008 at 5:30 pm

THERE IS "A NEW POPE"!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cQ9sJVJMiYM

Let's sing "Songs of Praise":

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7-ZnPE3G_YY

Other Comments by CruciFiction

10. Comment #152917 by Gymnopedie on March 31, 2008 at 5:45 pm

How do you even count the number of Muslims? The entire population of Saudi Arabia is counted as Muslim simply because it is mandated by law that every citizen is a Muslim. It is like trusting polling in police states...

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11. Comment #152920 by Pattern Seeker on March 31, 2008 at 5:50 pm

This has to be the world's most meaningless statistic...

Talk about making shit up and wrapping it in pseudoscientific census data. WTF!? Are these people for real?

So I guess the result of their study shows that Islam is full of more deluded people than Roman Catholicism? Does anybody else read it this way?

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12. Comment #152923 by bluebird on March 31, 2008 at 5:54 pm

CruciFiction, the 'New Pope' video is a real hoot, thanks for posting it!

The Pope will visit the U.S. in a few weeks.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/080328/us/usreport_pope_usa_colleges_dc_2

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13. Comment #152937 by scooternyc on March 31, 2008 at 6:24 pm

This is such a great scare tactic for Catholics to indoctrinate more people and have more children.

Very subtle, yet very effective.

Nothing like being manipulated.

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14. Comment #152945 by Hobbit on March 31, 2008 at 6:38 pm

"For the first time in history, we are no longer at the top: Muslims have overtaken us," Monsignor Vittorio Formenti said in an interview with the Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano.

So history only goes back as far as the start of the catholic church?

Maybe it's just me, but surely when Jesus was alive / made up, Judaism was on top?

Or at one time, the ancient Roman or Greek or Persian or Aztec or Mayan or, or, or!!!!

What a bunch of arrogant arseholes.

"It is true that while Muslim families, as is well known, continue to make a lot of children, Christian ones on the contrary tend to have fewer and fewer," the monsignor said.

Oh my god, they are beating us at our own game! Quick go out and impregnate each other before we are overwhelmed!

The sky is falling, the sky is falling!

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15. Comment #152988 by dragonfirematrix on March 31, 2008 at 7:58 pm

To quote a segment from the article: "It is true that while Muslim families, as is well known, continue to make a lot of children,"

Just a few of rambling ideas about this topic...

1) Making more babies has to be the ONLY way Islam will grow. They have to bear and indoctrinate their own babies just to increase their membership. Otherwise, why would any person in their right mind voluntarily want to become Islamic?

2) With all the hate and violence that Islam commits upon its own people (even children), they still have to replenish their population to replace the population they are killing.

3) The more babies they have, the more people their religion gets to oppress, and the more women their religion gets to mutilate.

Other Comments by dragonfirematrix

16. Comment #152997 by Pieter on March 31, 2008 at 8:20 pm

Children should not be labelled as belonging to a particular religion. There's 300 million "muslims" you can cross off your list.

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17. Comment #153002 by Goldy on March 31, 2008 at 8:26 pm

If Syria was anything to go by, a lot of the Muslims were merely cultural Muslims and so not really part of the equation. And I know a few Malaysians of Malay ethnicity who really aren't Muslims either, despite what Malaysia's laws say.
Meaningless statistics.

Other Comments by Goldy

18. Comment #153012 by Ed-words on March 31, 2008 at 9:20 pm

They don't keep stats on "smorgasboard"

Catholics? (i.e. Protestatholics)

(I'll take someadis and a littleadat, please.)

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19. Comment #153025 by Bigorra on March 31, 2008 at 10:25 pm

The figures on Muslims had been put together by Muslim countries and then provided to the United Nations, he said, adding that the Vatican could only vouch for its own data.

Who verifies the accuracy any of this data? What does it matter anyway?

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20. Comment #153032 by Wosret on March 31, 2008 at 11:01 pm

First time in history? Ha! That is about as ignorant and funny as that women Hitchen's likes to quote saying "if english was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me."

These people are truly stupid individuals. They say things you would expect a seven year old to say.

If there is one thing I like about catholicism though, at least 60% of yuri stories take place at all girl catholic schools. Can't get enough of those uniforms.

Other Comments by Wosret

21. Comment #153033 by Roy_H on March 31, 2008 at 11:05 pm

Crucifiction,
Hilarious stuff! actually you find some really good serious stuff on Youtube too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzHdPZ4pq4M&NR=1
Great Atheist Quotes (Just don't forget to turn the sound down! )

Other Comments by Roy_H

22. Comment #153058 by notsobad on April 1, 2008 at 1:43 am

I'd like to see the real numbers.

Remove people who label themselves religious/Christian but actually don't give a shit.

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23. Comment #153065 by irate_atheist on April 1, 2008 at 1:57 am

A case of 'who's got the biggest cult', eh?

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24. Comment #153068 by Bonzai on April 1, 2008 at 1:58 am

A case of 'who's got the biggest cult', eh?

Not all religions are the same. Islam is definitely much worse than Catholicism, which is merely stupid but not murderous.

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25. Comment #153076 by Hobbit on April 1, 2008 at 2:16 am

Not all religions are the same. Islam is definitely much worse than Catholicism, which is merely stupid but not murderous.

Tell that to all the people in Africa dieing of HIV / AIDS because the Catholic Church won't let them wear condoms!

Other Comments by Hobbit

26. Comment #153079 by Bonzai on April 1, 2008 at 2:27 am

Tell that to all the people in Africa dieing of HIV / AIDS because the Catholic Church won't let them wear condoms!

"Won't let them"? What if they do, are they going to be beheaded? To be fair, the Church also "won't let them" have sex and they wouldn't be dying of AIDs if they follow the whole package rather than just the no condom part.

So whose fault is it? The people who cherry pick the Church's instructions or the Church who gives stupid instructions knowing that it is human nature to have sex and cherry pick?

The RC Church is moribound and stupid but it is not anything like Islam. If you think they are the same just because "all religions are false" you are deluded.

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27. Comment #153081 by bamboospitfire on April 1, 2008 at 2:37 am

Not all religions are the same. Islam is definitely much worse than Catholicism, which is merely stupid but not murderous.

Whilst supporting Hobbit's point about AIDS, it is also worth pointing out that Catholicism certainly used to be murderous in the strict sense of the term and it is only as a result of the effects of science and the Enlightenment that it is no longer just as bad if not worse than Islam is today. But for the progress of secular society - progress made despite the interference of the Catholic church - the Inquisitors would still be burning people at the stake. Catholicism would be just as bad as Islam if we allowed it to be so. Both systems are equally abhorrent in their untamed form.

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28. Comment #153086 by irate_atheist on April 1, 2008 at 2:43 am

27. Comment #153079 by Bonzai -

"Won't let them"? What if they do, are they going to be beheaded?

Presumably they tell them they will go to hell. Presumably, being ignorant, superstitious and gullible, they may well believe it.

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29. Comment #153087 by Steve Zara on April 1, 2008 at 2:45 am

So whose fault is it? The people who cherry pick the Church's instructions or the Church who gives stupid instructions knowing that it is human nature to have sex and cherry pick?

Both.

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30. Comment #153089 by Bonzai on April 1, 2008 at 2:49 am

bamboo

Both systems are equally abhorrent in their untamed form.

Yes, but we are not talking about abstractions or religious history here.

One is tamed by secularism the other isn't. That makes a huge difference. Until either Islam is dragged screaming and kicking into, well, at least the 19th century or the RC Church has devolved into its old way there is no equivalence between the two in the way they are practised in the real world.

A poodle used to be a wolf, but it would make little sense to say they are the same thing because they used to be.

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31. Comment #153091 by Bonzai on April 1, 2008 at 2:54 am

irate

Presumably they tell them they will go to hell. Presumably, being ignorant, superstitious and gullible, they may well believe it.

Then how come they don't follow the not to have sex part? Presumably you will also go to hell for having sex.

Other Comments by Bonzai

32. Comment #153093 by LaTomate on April 1, 2008 at 3:02 am

I've lived in both Muslim and Catholic countries, and now live in an officially Anglican country, and I think we should consider these figures with a grain of salt.

In none of these countries did the majority of people live based on religious principles.

Catholic figures use the number of baptisms as a record, wheras in Muslim countries I have no idea how they could judge, unless it were by statistical methods or simply considering everyone to be one.

I'm actually quite convinced that there are a hell of a lot fewer practitioners of either faith, and that Islam has a lot more practitioners than the Catholic Church.

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33. Comment #153096 by irate_atheist on April 1, 2008 at 3:08 am

32. Comment #153091 by Bonzai -

What's the essence of your point? That the Catholic church is not so bad because we are (currently, and in the west only) able to shackle them? Hardly leaves them with much moral credit it the bank, does it?

A shackled murderer is still a murderer. Remove the shackles and you still have a serious problem on your hands. Given some of Rizo Ratso's senior henchmen's recent pronouncements, they cannot be seen as a civilizing force for good in the world.

Edit:

Presumably you will also go to hell for having sex.

What!? With my wife!? How could it possibly happen?

Other Comments by irate_atheist

34. Comment #153099 by Bonzai on April 1, 2008 at 3:16 am

irate

A shackled murderer is still a murderer

Do you actually believe that the vast majority of Catholics will take up the crusade and burn witches if you let them, that a poodle will attack like a wolf if you remove the leash?

Social institutions evolve and that is irreversibe

What!? With my wife!? How could it possibly happen?

Do you use condoms with your wife because you think she may have HIV? If not, or if you do that just for contraception then I don't see your point.

EDIT

Hardly leaves them with much moral credit it the bank, does it?

May not be much for you, but enough to make a difference for me while in Islamic countries which practice Shiaria law women are still being stoned to death for adultery, girls are still being judicially gang raped before their executions, homosexuals are still being hanged or beheaded, women are still being institutionally brutalized.

Other Comments by Bonzai

35. Comment #153102 by Steve Zara on April 1, 2008 at 3:27 am

Comment #153089 by Bonzai

A poodle used to be a wolf, but it would make little sense to say they are the same thing because they used to be.

They ARE the same thing. They are the same species, and can interbreed. Mind you, the resultant animal looks a bit odd. Poodle hair does not look dignified on a wolf.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

36. Comment #153103 by irate_atheist on April 1, 2008 at 3:34 am

35. Comment #153099 by Bonzai -

Do you use condoms with your wife because you think she may have HIV? If not, or if you do that just for contraception then I don't see your point.

If you were married, you'd have understood the joke...

Edit: 36. Comment #153102 by Steve Zara -

Be fair, Steve. Poodle hair doesn't even look dignified on a poodle :)

Other Comments by irate_atheist

37. Comment #153104 by Bonzai on April 1, 2008 at 3:35 am

If you were married, you'd have understood the joke...

Well I'm gay and very single..

Other Comments by Bonzai

38. Comment #153109 by irate_atheist on April 1, 2008 at 3:47 am

38. Comment #153104 by Bonzai -

Perhaps I'm just too rabidly anti-religious.

Other Comments by irate_atheist

39. Comment #153111 by Corylus on April 1, 2008 at 3:54 am

Steve

Poodle hair does not look dignified on a wolf.

Irate

Poodle hair doesn't even look dignified on a poodle :) .

Dignity is over-rated. Fun is unrated.

http://www.labradoodle.org.uk/gallery.php?imgnum=7

Put poodle hair on a Labrador and you have dog heaven.

http://www.labradoodle.org.uk/

Other Comments by Corylus

40. Comment #153112 by Steve Zara on April 1, 2008 at 3:57 am

Comment #153111 by Corylus

Put poodle hair on a Labrador and you have dog heaven.
http://www.labradoodle.org.uk/

"The UK Labradoodle Association is a voluntary, informal, independent resource for anyone interested in Labradoodles in the UK."

Sounds like a charity, perhaps appropriately.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

41. Comment #153117 by The Reverend Dark on April 1, 2008 at 4:30 am

Sniff...Sniff.

No, that article doesn't pass the smell test. Fearmongering, plain and simple.

Notice a few things missing? No mention of the festive variations of Islam, it is all lumped together like 72 unsatisfied virgins on a limp, viagra-craving martyr.

A more apt comparison would be Muslims and Christians, but there is little fear to be created there, so it is swept under the rug in hopes that most reader will not see what semantics they are playing with.

Or how about Abrahamic and non-believers?

I would call the authors of this article lying Vatican twats, but technically they are not lying, only decieving to within an altar boy's whimper of a lie.

The Reverend Shayne Dark

Other Comments by The Reverend Dark

42. Comment #153119 by Backpacker on April 1, 2008 at 4:33 am

"It is true that while Muslim families, as is well known, continue to make a lot of children, Christian ones on the contrary tend to have fewer and fewer," the monsignor said.

I wonder if he understands why?

The "figures" remind me of a time at school, more than forty years ago, when all the pupils were asked what religion they were, for the school records. One of my classmates did not know so he was told to find out from his parents. The next day he reported that his parents did not know either but they were going to get in touch with his grandparents to find out from them. The following day he informed the class teacher that his grandparents were members of the Plymouth Brethren. The teacher therefore recorded him as being a member of this church.

How many people like him and his family, who have this tenuous link with a religion are included in the statistics?

Other Comments by Backpacker

43. Comment #153135 by Tyler Durden on April 1, 2008 at 5:23 am

Comment #153065 by irate_atheist

A case of 'who's got the biggest cult', eh?

irate, you did mean to type "cult", yes? Just checking as I would've spelt it differently :-)

Other Comments by Tyler Durden

44. Comment #153136 by steveroot on April 1, 2008 at 5:25 am

9. Comment #152906 by CruciFiction on March 31, 2008 at 5:30 pm
THERE IS "A NEW POPE"!

Shhhhh... don't tell anyone!

http://richarddawkins.net/article,2340,A-New-Pope,AdamBuxton
Ste5e

Other Comments by steveroot

45. Comment #153138 by Dr Benway on April 1, 2008 at 5:32 am

A shrinking membership means no retirement homes for many old priests and nuns.

Other Comments by Dr Benway

46. Comment #153139 by Tyler Durden on April 1, 2008 at 5:36 am

When considering all Christians and not just Catholics, Christians make up 33 per cent of the world population, Formenti said.

And 47.2% of all statistics are made up on the spot - Steven Wright

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47. Comment #153152 by fides_et_ratio on April 1, 2008 at 6:01 am

Just so you've got some evidence at hand before making certain assertions. I've read the article and no fear has been induced.

As you were.

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48. Comment #153154 by bamboospitfire on April 1, 2008 at 6:05 am

Yes, but we are not talking about abstractions or religious history here.

One is tamed by secularism the other isn't. That makes a huge difference. Until either Islam is dragged screaming and kicking into, well, at least the 19th century or the RC Church has devolved into its old way there is no equivalence between the two in the way they are practised in the real world.

A poodle used to be a wolf, but it would make little sense to say they are the same thing because they used to be.

I don't disagree with your general point, although for the avoidance of doubt I did not say that Catholicism and Islam are the same. However, when comparing untamed Islam with tamed Catholicism, we should strenuously avoid permitting the Catholics to seize any moral high ground because their current position only enjoys an air of acceptability thanks to the secular values that Catholicism has been forced to adopt. Catholics will assert that their abandonment of violence was the result of internal processes for which they can claim all the credit. In fact, that awful woman Catherine Pepinster tried to do a similar thing last week on Thought For The Day when she claimed that Englightenment values are actually just a reflection of Christianity and Catholicism in particular.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/programmes/thought/documents/t20080328.shtml

This is entirely disingenuous and it should not be allowed to go unchecked. But as noted above I agree with the main point that different religions pose different threats and right now Islam is the most dangerous of the lot by some margin.

Other Comments by bamboospitfire

49. Comment #153158 by JanChan on April 1, 2008 at 6:23 am

Could this have anything to do with the death by apostasy law?

Other Comments by JanChan

50. Comment #153172 by Justanotheratheist on April 1, 2008 at 7:02 am

Perhaps I'm just too rabidly anti-religious

Impossible to be too anti-religious. The more virulent the better, as far as I'm concerned. It is a harmful leftover from ages past, and the more it comes under attack the happier I feel.

Not, unfortunately, that it makes one iota of difference. The whole stupid shedload of crap is here to stay for a very long time, irrespective of how many people are practising one form or another of it.

Other Comments by Justanotheratheist