Thursday, April 3, 2008 | Reason : Political | print version

Anti-gay Okla. lawmaker attracts 1,000 backers

by MSNBC

Thanks to Tim DiChiara for the link.

Reposted from:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23927692/

Supporters rally behind Republican caught up in YouTube controversy

OKLAHOMA CITY - More than 1,000 people attended a rally Wednesday in support of a state legislator who has been widely criticized for anti-gay remarks caught in a YouTube audio clip.

Republican state Rep. Sally Kern was denounced by gay and lesbian groups after she was recorded telling a recent gathering of fellow Republicans that homosexuality poses a bigger threat to the nation than terrorism.

Kern was cheered Wednesday when she told the crowd at the state Capitol that their support affirmed the rights of conservative Christians "who want to stand up for the truth of God's word."

"What has happened to me has served to advance the gospel," said Kern, who was greeted with chants of "Sally, Sally" and was frequently interrupted by shouts of "Amen."

Inundated with e-mails

Kern said she received thousands of angry telephone calls and e-mails after an audio clip of her comments about gays and lesbians were recorded and posted on YouTube last month by the Washington, D.C.-based Gay & Lesbian Victory Fund.

"Studies show no society that has totally embraced homosexuality has lasted more than a few decades," Kern said in the recorded comments. "It is not a lifestyle that is good for this nation."

Kern, who was joined at the rally by Baptist ministers including her husband, the Rev. Steve Kern, has rejected demands that she apologize and said her beliefs are rooted in biblical passages that she said characterizes homosexuality as a sin.

"You cannot separate your faith from life," she said.

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1. Comment #154445 by discipline on April 3, 2008 at 9:27 am

"her beliefs are rooted in biblical passages that she said characterizes homosexuality as a sin. "

She's right about that at least. I never understood why moderate Christians don't understand the condemnation of homosexuality in Leviticus. Seems pretty clear to me.

The more Sally Kerns, the better, in my opinion. The more laughably extreme the Christian Right becomes, the more quickly they'll fade into well-deserved obscurity.

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2. Comment #154446 by DavidJGrossman on April 3, 2008 at 9:27 am

Contact info at:
http://www.okhouse.gov/committees/member.aspx?memberid=87

Twisted people like this have no business in our government.

Other Comments by DavidJGrossman

3. Comment #154447 by b0ltzm0n on April 3, 2008 at 9:29 am

This story makes me feel not so gay.

Other Comments by b0ltzm0n

4. Comment #154448 by JemyM on April 3, 2008 at 9:30 am

Kern was cheered Wednesday when she told the crowd at the state Capitol that their support affirmed the rights of conservative Christians "who want to stand up for the truth of God's word."

She have all the neonazis in the world on her side.

Other Comments by JemyM

5. Comment #154449 by quantum tuba on April 3, 2008 at 9:31 am

She said her beliefs are rooted in Biblical passages, did she. Coming soon: Sally Kern discusses the threat posed by masturbating, eating shellfish, and permitting witches to live. She is also expected to endorse the stoning of disobedient children and the marriage of rape victims to their rapists.

Anyone who holds this legislator of stone age dogmatism in any esteem is a FUCKTARD!

Other Comments by quantum tuba

6. Comment #154452 by Adam Morrison on April 3, 2008 at 9:43 am

[blockquote]"Studies show no society that has totally embraced homosexuality has lasted more than a few decades," Kern said in the recorded comments. "It is not a lifestyle that is good for this nation."[/blockquote]

I absolutely can't stand this woman. The miasmic filth she spews from her mouth makes me ill. Her quote is absolute invention. The only society I can think of in recent history that accepted homosexuality faster than the UK, US and Canada would be the Netherlands, and I'm fairly certain they're still going strong (note that I'm not 100% sure about this, I'm relying on some vague memories of news reports from when I was a child.)

In the ancient world certain amounts of homosexuality existed to varying degrees for centuries. The Greek version of homosexuality certainly didn't destroy their civilization, and even the Romans entertained certain homosexual tolerances for centuries. Both civilizations resulted in some of the most impressive accomplishments of antiquity.

I remember listening to clips of her on the radio. Should not hold office!

Other Comments by Adam Morrison

7. Comment #154454 by al-rawandi on April 3, 2008 at 9:49 am

discipline,

I have noticed an interesting hypocrisy....

When I say to a Christian, "Your Old Testament is a vile and nasty bit, supporting genocide". They inevitbaly say "Well Jesus came and changed all that."

So they claim Jesus "abrogated the Old Testament", yet they still cite the Old Testament when it suits them, like this piece from Leviticus. They happily try to post the 10 Commandments in Courthouses, country-wide.

So they are quite dishonest when discussing these things. Sometimes the Old Testament is out, not to be used, and sometimes it is in, to be applied rigorously.

I wonder if the cognitive dissonance causes headaches.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

8. Comment #154455 by FightingFalcon on April 3, 2008 at 9:50 am

"Studies show no society that has totally embraced homosexuality has lasted more than a few decades,"

Sacred Band of Thebes, anyone? Composed of 150 male couples, it was the fiercest fighting force in Ancient Greece before being destroyed by Philip II of Macedon at Chaeronea.

That is to say nothing about the rest of Greece and, to a certain extent, Rome. Nor the widespread homosexual and bi-sexual practices in pre-Islamic (and post-Islamic for a while) Arabia. While certainly none of those cultures adopted homosexuality exclusively, I doubt any example can be found of a society that was exclusively homosexual. But bisexual practices in Ancient Greece and Rome were very much widespread. In Sparta, males were expected to be homosexual for the majority of their life before eventually settling down with a wife for the perpetuation of the society. But even then, males had to sneak out of the barracks because leaving your male partner behind to sleep with your wife was looked at with a negative light.

I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand.

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9. Comment #154457 by al-rawandi on April 3, 2008 at 9:56 am

Falcon,

You should read Hugh Kennedy's "In the Caliph's Court". The Abbassid Caliphate (which lasted several centuries) was known for its pederasty.

I heard Kennedy give a lecture at the MESA conference and he said;

Once the young boys got facial hair, they had to be found other employment.

In Islam, the afterlife also promises "Dark eyed young boys, like pearls, to serve you."

They are still hanging around. Guess this whacko bitch is wrong.... What do you expect, she lives in Oklahoma.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

10. Comment #154458 by Frankus1122 on April 3, 2008 at 9:56 am

Comment #154449 by quantum tuba :

She said her beliefs are rooted in Biblical passages, did she. Coming soon: Sally Kern discusses the threat posed by masturbating, eating shellfish, and permitting witches to live.

For absolute pwnage on this topic watch President Barlett dress down a Dr. Laura /Sally Kern

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-zhNiGlogQ

Other Comments by Frankus1122

11. Comment #154459 by Ygern on April 3, 2008 at 9:58 am

I'm afraid the New Testament isn't much better when it comes to hate-mongering & bigotry & subjugation of (well, to be honest) just about anyone different - see the Rantings of Paul aka Epistles.

Al-Rawandi, seriously, ask anyone using the 'New Testament changes all that' argument how they reconcile Paul's teachings with the new enlightened soft-focus stuff they think is in there.

It saddens me that people would rally to show support for such an ugly hateful human-being.
Oh well, Jesus must be proud.

Other Comments by Ygern

12. Comment #154461 by FightingFalcon on April 3, 2008 at 10:05 am

Al-Rawandi,

I'll check out the book. I love how Muslims attempt to erase any traces of homosexuality in Islamic lands, given the strong tradition of homosexual practices in pre-Islamic Arabia. Even the practice of Bacchá continues to this day in certain Islamic lands.

I've seen that quote from the Koran as well. For some reason, everyone knows about the 72 virgins but not the young boys. I wonder why that is...

Other Comments by FightingFalcon

13. Comment #154462 by Star Spangled Eagle on April 3, 2008 at 10:06 am

"homosexuality poses a bigger threat to the nation than terrorism."

Umm. I confused.

Example of a terrorists: Crash planes into buildings killing thousands.

Example of a gay citizen: Attracted to the same sex.

Hmmm, So very dangerous. I mean, as a heterosexual male I am threatened by a private citizen choosing to have a relationship with someone over someone piloting a large object, weighing many tons smashing into a building with the sole objective of killing as many people as possible.

-shiver- Ewww I can't stand the thought of gay people, nothing is worse than that!. (Sarcasm)

Other Comments by Star Spangled Eagle

14. Comment #154466 by logos_tech on April 3, 2008 at 10:18 am

"Studies show no society that has totally embraced homosexuality has lasted more than a few decades," Kern said in the recorded comments. "It is not a lifestyle that is good for this nation."

Just what studies show this? As usual references are lacking as the demagogue keeps spouting.

Other Comments by logos_tech

15. Comment #154467 by croatcat on April 3, 2008 at 10:18 am

al-rawandi,

48 yrs of RC, 35 yrs of a psychological battle. No matter how I tried to justify the teaching with the world at large, never quite fit. So yes, many headached days and nights! The cherry-picking finally became absurd. There is no getting through to person of "faith" that just knows they are right about what their god has told them.

Until religions are relegated to the realm of silly myths, these people will keep popping up like dandelions, spreading their hate and hypocrisy.

I am getting very tired of being told how best to live my life. Seems to be escalating here in the good ol US.

Other Comments by croatcat

16. Comment #154468 by al-rawandi on April 3, 2008 at 10:22 am

Falcon,

Well I guess they still view 72 virgins as a marketing scheme. I guess the boys are just too embarrasing.

As for pre-Islamic Arabia, I recall doing some research for a book and I cam across a deity named "Dhu Ghabat", a minor deity of the Dedanites. A god was mentioned in the Bible as "He of the Thicket" (Isaiah) which is almost a certain parallel.

Anyhow, young boys were sacrificed to this deity, often as young as 3 years old. And when one treats young boys as objects... well you get the picture.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

17. Comment #154470 by jmrunning3 on April 3, 2008 at 10:27 am

I live in Oklahoma, and have all my life. In many respects, we are a very backward state, and it's very much the fault of backward lawmakers like Sally Kern, Jim Inhofe, Tom Coburn, et al.

We have the highest divorce rate in the country.
We have nearly the worst-paid teachers in the country.
We used to be the meth-producing capital of the country.
We have three of the top ten highest-polluting, coal-fired electricity plants in the nation.
We have the most per-capita fastfood restaurants (or, did at one time).
Teen preganancy, High School dropouts...

You get the idea, and I could go on, and on, and on.

But, on the bright side, we have chuches of every stripe on every goddamn corner of every goddamn town. Many preaching how gays are the ruin of our state and nation. I'd like Sally 'God-loving' Kern to tell me how gays have one tiny bit of responsibility for even one of the problems I've listed above, just one. Nevermind the rest of our nation.

...and she should not apologize for her comments. It would be hollow and insincere and mean nothing. Screw that.

Other Comments by jmrunning3

18. Comment #154472 by kaiserkriss on April 3, 2008 at 10:29 am

[I wonder if the cognitive dissonance causes headaches.]

No Al, it is called compartmentalization of fact from fiction, and never the twain shall meet. jcw

Other Comments by kaiserkriss

19. Comment #154479 by Podaar on April 3, 2008 at 10:38 am

My problem with these hypocrites is, they incessantly talk about 'love' yet they are in essence trying to legislate denial of love and happiness to other couples. Their complaint is so inane it makes me crazy.

-- Gregg

Other Comments by Podaar

20. Comment #154480 by TheSwede on April 3, 2008 at 10:43 am

"Studies show no society that has totally embraced homosexuality has lasted more than a few decades,"

Oh, what about ancient Greece?

Or modern Sweden for that matter... Hopefully we'll last a decade or so more!

Other Comments by TheSwede

21. Comment #154483 by al-rawandi on April 3, 2008 at 10:45 am

kaiser,

Well I stand corrected.

I just call it idiocy, sometimes stupidity, and often.... fucktardary.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

22. Comment #154486 by Diacanu on April 3, 2008 at 10:50 am

Podaar-

My problem with these hypocrites is, they incessantly talk about 'love' yet they are in essence trying to legislate denial of love and happiness to other couples.

That's why I long for the day when everyone gets as sick of religion as us atheists, and just collectively snap out of it, like the cult members throwing their candles into the water at the end of Conan.

These ancient religions are obsolete, and no longer serve us.
They're based on fear, not love.
That simple.

Other Comments by Diacanu

23. Comment #154487 by Geoff on April 3, 2008 at 10:53 am

Waiting for David to pop in with "that's not my christianity she's talking about"...

Other Comments by Geoff

24. Comment #154488 by al-rawandi on April 3, 2008 at 10:56 am

Geoff,

I thought I was the only guy looking at his watch.

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25. Comment #154489 by Podaar on April 3, 2008 at 10:56 am

Diacanu;

...Atheist don't know love and can't support it because they don't love Jesus.

*gag*

Other Comments by Podaar

26. Comment #154492 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 3, 2008 at 11:00 am

The easiest way to show this kind of nonsense up is just to quote Leviticus at them:

* Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)

* Don't have a variety of crops on the same field. (Leviticus 19:19)

* Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19)

* Don't cut your hair nor shave. (Leviticus 19:27)

* Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed. (Leviticus 20:9)

* If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die. (Leviticus 20:10)

* If a man sleeps with his father's wife... both him and his father's wife is to be put to death. (Leviticus 20:11)

* If a man sleeps with his wife and her mother they are all to be burnt to death. (Leviticus 20:14)

* If a man or woman has sex with an animal, both human and animal must be killed. (Leviticus 20:15-16)

* If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their people" (Leviticus 20:18)

* Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death. (Leviticus 20:27)

* If a priest's daughter is a whore, she is to be burnt at the stake. (Leviticus 21:9)

* People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)

* Anyone who curses or blasphemes God, should be stoned to death by the community. (Leviticus 24:14-16)

Source: http://biblebabble.curbjaw.com/laws.htm

Other Comments by ThoughtsonCommonToad

27. Comment #154494 by Diacanu on April 3, 2008 at 11:04 am

Am I the only one who looked at the headline too quickly, and thought it said "Anti-gay Okla. lawmaker attracts 1,000 hackers"?

I kinda relished the idea of a 1,000 righteous hackers reducing her computer to a puddle of sizzling slag.

Other Comments by Diacanu

28. Comment #154495 by Diacanu on April 3, 2008 at 11:08 am

Diacanu;

...Atheist don't know love and can't support it because they don't love Jesus.

*gag*

Doncha just love that shit?
No way they could get away with saying something that nasty about another race or nationality.
...well, they used to...wasn't too long ago either.

Other Comments by Diacanu

29. Comment #154499 by Podaar on April 3, 2008 at 11:22 am

Diacanu;

Sorry, OT, but I must say Vampire Hunter D is my second favorite anime, I want to watch it everytime I see your Avatar (Ghost in the Machine is #1 for me).

OT < off >

Other Comments by Podaar

30. Comment #154500 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 3, 2008 at 11:25 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7328892.stm

Page last updated at 17:30 GMT, Thursday, 3 April 2008 18:30 UK

Eight men planned to detonate bombs aboard flights from London across the Atlantic to create deaths on an almost unprecedented scale, a court has heard.

Homemade devices were to be smuggled on to passenger aircraft and detonated mid-flight, Woolwich Crown Court heard.

Prosecutor Peter Wright QC said the men planned to inflict heavy casualties, "all in the name of Islam".

Yeah homosexuality is more dangerous than terrorism.

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31. Comment #154501 by al-rawandi on April 3, 2008 at 11:28 am

Toad,

Ahhhh gay terrorists!

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32. Comment #154502 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 3, 2008 at 11:28 am

Al. Yes surely the ultimate destructive force imaginable. Gay terrorists.

Other Comments by ThoughtsonCommonToad

33. Comment #154503 by al-rawandi on April 3, 2008 at 11:32 am

Gay Baby-killing Mexican Terrorists.

The anti-Christ as far as Republicans are concerned.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

34. Comment #154504 by Geoff on April 3, 2008 at 11:33 am

Well, as has been pointed out many times, it doesn't actually specify which sex the 72 virgins are...

Other Comments by Geoff

35. Comment #154507 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 3, 2008 at 11:37 am

"Studies show that no society that has totally embraced homosexuality has lasted more than, you know, a few decades. So it's the death knell of this country. I honestly think it's the biggest threat our nation has, even more so than terrorism or Islam, which I think is a big threat… If you got cancer or something in your little toe, do you say, well, you know, I'm just going to forget about it because the rest of me is fine? It spreads. OK? And this stuff is deadly, and it's spreading, and it will destroy our young people, it will destroy this nation."

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/3/11/headlines#6

Actually her reasoning isn't that bad if you accept her premise: "Studies show that no society that has totally embraced homosexuality has lasted more than, you know, a few decades. So it's the death knell of this country."

I've found this site that deals with what threats homosexuality could pose.

Does Homosexuality Pose a Threat to Society?
By Dr. Niclas Berggren
http://hem.passagen.se/nicb/threat.htm

Other Comments by ThoughtsonCommonToad

36. Comment #154509 by Aaron on April 3, 2008 at 11:40 am

If I were president of the US my first act would be to have the public vote on one issue: whether or not to have an international group of top biblical scholars, textual critics, and scientists get together to officially decide what the Bible is, what is says, and if there is any other guide that could be followed to ensure a moral society. I really don't see why we don't do this. When the government needs to make a decision it has committees like those that figure out which foods and drugs are acceptable for public consumption, which safety measures must be put in automobiles, how houses can be constructed, etc. If politicians like Kern really believe what they believe they should be pushing for something like this too. I think we need to push them back on their heels by threatening to call their bluffs.

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37. Comment #154510 by al-rawandi on April 3, 2008 at 11:40 am

Geoff,

That is the Family Guy episode where the terrorist gets to heaven and he says "Where are my virgins"... It is a bunch of dorky dudes on laptops, and one is wearing Mr. Spock ears.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

38. Comment #154511 by toddaa on April 3, 2008 at 11:42 am

I want Sally Kern as visible as possible. I want to give her the loudest megaphone and the highest podium possible. I want 24/7 media coverage of everything she says. I want to make sure her freedom of speech is not only protected, but encouraged. She is the best thing to happen to Christianity since Bob Jones University.

When the moderates come whining that Sally Kern does not represent Christianity as a whole, then I will demand they do something about it. It's their stupid religion. I am not responsible for fixing it.

Other Comments by toddaa

39. Comment #154513 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 3, 2008 at 11:43 am

The 72 virgins claims is bogus isn't it though? There is no mention anywhere in the Koran of the actual number of virgins available in paradise, and aren't the "dark-eyed damsels" available to all Muslims, not just martyrs.
There is a Hadith that says 'The smallest reward for the people of paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah to Sana'a'."

EDIT:BUT the only way to get the virgins is to get to heaven, and the only way to be certain of getting to heaven is to die in Jihad.

Other Comments by ThoughtsonCommonToad

40. Comment #154515 by Steve Zara on April 3, 2008 at 11:44 am

Sally Kern probably doesn't realise what is coming. She has been brought to the attention of the formidable columnist Dan Savage. I believe he is intending to deal with her in the same way as he did with the ghastly Rick Santorum. (Look up his surname on google, if you dare).

Other Comments by Steve Zara

41. Comment #154516 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 3, 2008 at 11:47 am

Yeah Dan Savage is fantastic. His bits on Bill Maher are the only reason I ever really watch the show to be fair. (Bill Maher is really amateur and ignorant).

Other Comments by ThoughtsonCommonToad

42. Comment #154517 by Border Collie on April 3, 2008 at 11:47 am

Have you ever noticed that the ones who rail the loudest against homosexuality are many times the very ones eventually caught with their britches down in the act of such in a very public place?

Other Comments by Border Collie

43. Comment #154518 by cowalker on April 3, 2008 at 11:48 am

ThoughtsonCommonToad:

Yeah homosexuality is more dangerous than terrorism.

Didn't you hear that four homosexual couples planned to have sex at an airport hotel in New York, to create sensual pleasure on a scale approximately equal to the pleasure created by four heterosexual couples in that hotel on the same night? Doesn't that send your Scare Meter into the Unprecedented zone?

Other Comments by cowalker

44. Comment #154519 by scottishgeologist on April 3, 2008 at 11:49 am

Repellent though these remarks are, she is , like Fred Phelps, being true to what she believes and what is written in her "good book".

The problem is with the liberal christians who pick and choose and go through all sorts of contortions to make "scripture" fit in with societal norms.

What is happening in the UK at any rate is that churches are in decline, the liberal ones much more so than evangelical ones.

What I can see happening over the next decade or so is a polarisation taking place. Between secular, rationalist atheism on one hand and conservative evangelicalism on the other.

There will be no liberal middle ground left - it will simply evaporate, and if anyone "goes to church", they will be going to an evangie one.

Churches that will no doubt spew the sort of stuff in this article. Also likely to be charismatic, pentecostal and probably armageddonist.

This is just me thinking out loud - does anyone else have any ideas on this?

SG

Other Comments by scottishgeologist

45. Comment #154520 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 3, 2008 at 11:49 am

Yeah it is often said the only people who talk about God are atheists.

Other Comments by ThoughtsonCommonToad

46. Comment #154522 by Frankus1122 on April 3, 2008 at 11:51 am

Aaron I like this idea but does it lend legitimacy to the Bible just by allowing it to be studied?
What about the Koran?
What about other 'sacred' texts?

Comment #154492 by ThoughtsonCommonToad:
You have to watch the Youtube link I provided above.
Here it is again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-zhNiGlogQ

Other Comments by Frankus1122

47. Comment #154524 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 3, 2008 at 11:51 am

Didn't you hear that four homosexual couples planned to have sex at an airport hotel in New York, to create sensual pleasure on a scale approximately equal to the pleasure created by four heterosexual couples in that hotel on the same night? Doesn't that send your Scare Meter into the Unprecedented zone?

** SHIVER **

Other Comments by ThoughtsonCommonToad

48. Comment #154538 by FinnHawk on April 3, 2008 at 12:11 pm

wow! It sure is a backwards world down there... I'm glad I live on the Canadian west coast.

Other Comments by FinnHawk

49. Comment #154544 by Colwyn Abernathy on April 3, 2008 at 12:22 pm

"You cannot separate your faith from life," she said.

Because you need your crutch to get through the day, we get it. But you also need not apply YOUR faith to someone else. That would be unconstitutional. Your rights end where mine begin.

Other Comments by Colwyn Abernathy

50. Comment #154546 by FinnHawk on April 3, 2008 at 12:25 pm

Hey Discipline, in response to your first comment:

I don't understand why Fundamentalist Christians don't obey all the other commandments and decrees in Leviticus (and elsewhere in the Bible). No were does it say that homosexuality is a bigger sin or more detestable than the other things that are forbidden.

Other Comments by FinnHawk