Thursday, April 3, 2008 | Reason : Wingnut News | print version

Cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov tries suicide after realising he was wrong about doomsday

by Times Online UK

Thanks to Bernard Baptiste for the link.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3677129.ece

Cult leader Pyotr Kuznetsov tries suicide after realising he was wrong about doomsday

Tony Halpin in Moscow

The leader of a Russian doomsday sect has attempted to kill himself as his followers continue to emerge from a cave where they have been waiting for the end of the world.

Pyotr Kuznetsov was in hospital yesterday after he was discovered hitting himself over the head with a log. Members of his religious group have been hiding in a cave since November, believing that the world would end in May.

Officials said that he may have attempted suicide after realising his prediction had been wrong. Mr Kuznetsov has been declared to be suffering from schizophrenia and held in a psychiatric hospital for treatment. He was brought back to the remote village of Nikolskoye, 435 miles southeast of Moscow, to help the authorities to persuade his followers to leave the cave amid fears that it was collapsing. Mr Kuznetsov was found with a head wound in a barn at his home after going out for firewood.

"It was an attempted suicide. Pyotr put his head on a tree stump and started hitting his head with a log. He is in hospital with a head wound," said Oleg Melnichenko, deputy goveror of the Penza region. Doctors described his condition as stable after an emergency operation. The local prosecutor Grigori Zhitenev said that Mr Kuznetsov's motives included "that the end of the world has not come".

The spiritual leader had forecast the Apocalypse but did not join 35 followers who barricaded themselves in the cave and threatened to blow up gas cylinders if officials tried to force them out.

Mr Kuznetsov, 43, was present when a woman and two children emerged from the cave on Wednesday. A day earlier, 14 members, including two other children, had been forced to leave when part of the cave collapsed under the pressure of spring floodwater.

"Pyotr said God had collapsed the cave and to go against God is a great sin," Mr Melnichenko said. Seven women left the cave last week.

Officials said that nine women and two men remained underground and were divided over whether to come out. They had not been told about Mr Kuznetsov's apparent suicide attempt and an Orthodox priest with specialist knowledge of apocalyptic literature had been brought in to talk to them.

The group agreed this month to end their vigil on April 27, when the Russian Orthodox Church marks Easter. Many of those who have left the cave continue to wait for the end of the world at Mr Kuznetsov's wooden cottage in Nikolskoye.

Mr Kuznetsov's sect calls itself the True Orthodox Church, a splinter group whose members reject processed food and consider that bar codes are satanic symbols. Valeri Trazanov, a regional government official, said: "The people in the cave consider themselves Orthodox Christians and not cult members."

Villagers said that the cult followers, who wear long black robes, came to Nikolskoye from other regions of Russia and even from Belarus. Police and local authorities have engaged in months of diplomacy to persuade them to leave.

Sect members were given a cow after they left the cave because they refused to drink milk from cartons that carried bar codes. They have refused to talk to journalists but otherwise appear to be in good health despite five months underground.

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1. Comment #154664 by RSP on April 3, 2008 at 2:53 pm

Didn't he get the memo? You are supposed to predict the end of the world takes place after you will likely be dead. See Pyoty darling, this is what happens when you ignore a few thousand years of decedent doomsdayers.

Other Comments by RSP

2. Comment #154668 by room101 on April 3, 2008 at 2:55 pm

Oh, this story has all the requirements for a potential Pat Condell video. Can't wait...

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3. Comment #154681 by Darwin's badger on April 3, 2008 at 3:04 pm

Pyotr Kuznetsov was in hospital yesterday after he was discovered hitting himself over the head with a log.

Is is just me, or did that make anyone else laugh out loud? :)

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4. Comment #154687 by Podaar on April 3, 2008 at 3:08 pm

Comment #154681 by Darwin's badger

Twice. My boss, in the next room, asked what was so funny.

*clicks on minimize*

Other Comments by Podaar

5. Comment #154689 by Donald on April 3, 2008 at 3:10 pm

Sect members were given a cow after they left the cave because they refused to drink milk from cartons that carried bar codes.

Says it all. Absurdity of the beliefs. Kindness of the more enlightened.

Other Comments by Donald

6. Comment #154690 by Diacanu on April 3, 2008 at 3:10 pm

*Waves*
Bye, asshole.
Bubye.
Bye now.
Bye.

Other Comments by Diacanu

7. Comment #154696 by Hobbit on April 3, 2008 at 3:16 pm

See link below to the coverage of this story in yesterday's Sydney Morning Herald.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/its-the-end-of-the-world--or-is-it/2008/04/03/1206851051217.html

From the SMH article:

The group's leader, self-declared prophet Pyotr Kuznetsov, has been charged with setting up a religious organization associated with violence, and officials later said they had seized literature that included what appeared to be extremist rhetoric.

Unlike all the other peaceful religious organizations!

So if they charge this guy for setting up a religious organization associated with violence, does this mean that the Pope, the Arch Bishop of Canterbury, all the Immans and all other religious leaders will be charged as well if they step foot in Russia?

Wow, talk about a double standard.

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8. Comment #154700 by RevJimBob on April 3, 2008 at 3:22 pm

"Sect members were given a cow after they left the cave because they refused to drink milk from cartons that carried bar codes."
Ayrshire cows are walking groovy bar codes.

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9. Comment #154703 by Henwli on April 3, 2008 at 3:23 pm

Laughed once when I read "...was discovered hitting himself over the head with a log..." in my RSS reader. Laughed out a second time when I read the same bit in the article proper. Totally lost is at the mental image of him resting his head on a stump while desperately banging it with a log.

"Why... OW! Won't... ACH! You... OUCH! Die!"

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10. Comment #154704 by Pattern Seeker on April 3, 2008 at 3:24 pm

I think next time Pyotr should ask "someone else" to smash him over the head with a log. Obviously, he wasn't doing a very good job. He's as bad at killing himself as he is at predicting the 'End Of The World.'

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11. Comment #154707 by Prankster on April 3, 2008 at 3:28 pm

Sorry was off to bed when I came across this....

ROTFPMSL at the image of the cult leader cracking himself over the head with a log.....

*ha ha ha ha ha........what a dick* *sarcastic laugh*

Other Comments by Prankster

12. Comment #154714 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on April 3, 2008 at 3:38 pm

Poor people. They genuinely believe it. How much has the rantings of a mad man in Revelations got to account for.

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13. Comment #154719 by mixmastergaz on April 3, 2008 at 3:43 pm

I wonder how Irate Atheist would describe this poor fellow...

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14. Comment #154721 by Lycosid on April 3, 2008 at 3:45 pm

His followers should have been sealed in with him. Dumbasses.

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15. Comment #154722 by mixmastergaz on April 3, 2008 at 3:46 pm

Perhaps some new word or phrase could be coined to name such individuals. I think two syllables ought to do it.

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16. Comment #154723 by Corylus on April 3, 2008 at 3:48 pm

Officials said that he may have attempted suicide after realising his prediction had been wrong. Mr Kuznetsov has been declared to be suffering from schizophrenia and held in a psychiatric hospital for treatment.

Schizophrenia? Hmm... Dunno.

You have to be consistently organised to be a leader of any group. Even/especially? a sect.

Florid episodes do not help with that.

Dr Benway. You about?

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17. Comment #154728 by Quine on April 3, 2008 at 3:59 pm

The history of people following the mentally ill goes back thousands of years. If only it were more commonly known.

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18. Comment #154733 by Dr Benway on April 3, 2008 at 4:01 pm

Tiny rule of thumb: if you laugh out loud at the story, think bipolar disorder.

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19. Comment #154734 by justdust on April 3, 2008 at 4:01 pm

and consider that bar codes are satanic symbols

I must admit that passed me by in the bible. Could they not have come up with a better USP than that?

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20. Comment #154735 by tadgh on April 3, 2008 at 4:06 pm

"Members of his religious group have been hiding in a cave since November, believing that the world would end in May. " Er, this is April, isn't it? So, how how thoughtless was it to attempt suicide rather than informing all those people hiding in a cave?
Nice guy, this Pyotr.

Other Comments by tadgh

21. Comment #154739 by davidjn on April 3, 2008 at 4:30 pm

I marveled at the line from a Russian Orthodox Church official when the initial story first appeared on CNN in November:

"What we're seeing in Penza right now is a most vivid example of what could happen to a country, to a society, if this society is deprived of proper religious education."

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22. Comment #154740 by Lucas on April 3, 2008 at 4:32 pm

Oh, if only more religious leaders were equipped with a stump and a log. As long as they do it to themselves, we're all in the clear, right?

Other Comments by Lucas

23. Comment #154742 by chuckgoecke on April 3, 2008 at 4:37 pm

Nice to see natural selection alive and well and working on humans today. Too bad the religious procreate at generally higher rates than the rational. Well at least stuff like this directionally evens things out.

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24. Comment #154746 by Lucas on April 3, 2008 at 4:41 pm

Richard Morgan - Is there a more appropriate response to something like this than sarcasm and derision? I'm not bearing any teeth here, I'm just not sure what you would envision as being a more humane response. This story is indeed funny. On a serious note, yes, this kind of cult behavior has a long history, and is the product of all kinds of social pressures, and likely, chemical imbalances in the brain. In one sense, I do truly feel sorry for these folks, but in another, their gullibility is laughable and it is our right, as humans, to make fun of anything we want. Nothing is so sacred as to be immune to sarcasm. Of course, this can often take a juvenile form, and that is often unenlightening. But please, if you are going to criticize, have something of substance to say for yourself. No disrespect, I'm just sayin'.

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25. Comment #154748 by Cartomancer on April 3, 2008 at 4:45 pm

Well, Richard does use barcodes as an analogy quite a bit in Unweaving the Rainbow. Perhaps our log-toting friend has a copy and just misunderstood all those references when he was reading it...

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26. Comment #154754 by Dog Boots on April 3, 2008 at 4:55 pm

I don't get it - they thought the world would end in May....been hiding since November....and we're in early April now... How do they know it won't happen? Or was it last May? - in that case why go hiding 6 months later, and realize the prediction was wrong almost a year after the date?

"My rediculous prediction failed - I'll make a suicide attempt to match it.". I'm reminded of Monty Python's Gumby-character hitting himself on the head with bricks.

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27. Comment #154762 by phasmagigas on April 3, 2008 at 5:15 pm

its all quite sad isnt it, people believing some guys crazy ramblings, its not really different from any form of believing though is it?

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28. Comment #154763 by mikejswalker on April 3, 2008 at 5:16 pm

Gotta be careful taking the piss out of schizophrenics ladies. It makes us look dumb. And, what.s more, if you found him, to see a soul so broken, you'd be hard pushed not to help him to his feet.
Think before you think.

Kind regards,

Mike.

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29. Comment #154766 by Jack Rawlinson on April 3, 2008 at 5:19 pm

Shame he didn't succeed.

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30. Comment #154767 by Jack Rawlinson on April 3, 2008 at 5:22 pm

Gotta be careful taking the piss out of schizophrenics ladies. It makes us look dumb.

Whereas lazy sexism makes us look like smart guys, no doubt.

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31. Comment #154768 by mikejswalker on April 3, 2008 at 5:23 pm

Must sit and watch that suffering. Makes me feel good about me.
Get the light someone.

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32. Comment #154769 by Alkal on April 3, 2008 at 5:24 pm

So it proves he is a failure at everything...
*drumroll*

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33. Comment #154770 by Foggerty on April 3, 2008 at 5:25 pm

While I laughed at the image of attempted suicide via a lump of wood :-), it is sad that this guy appears to be mentally ill and quite possibly believed that what he was said was divinely inspired.

Wondering how many other "lead by voices" prophets had the same affliction vs those that just made it up for kicks.

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34. Comment #154772 by Cartomancer on April 3, 2008 at 5:27 pm

I think there is a big gap between commenting on the humorous nature of the story from the distance of the internet and actually laughing at the suffering of a mentally ill man up close where it matters. I doubt any of us would seriously contemplate laughing if we were actually faced with a desperate schizophrenic trying to beat his own brains out. But we're not dealing with the man himself - we're dealing with a report of it third or fourth hand from a magazine article. We're dealing with the palpably absurd idea of what happens when your doomsday predictions don't come true, and the amusing image of a man hitting himself over the head with a log. None of us have actually met this man, nor is anything we say ever likely to influence his life, suffering or condition one jot. As far as we're concerned this story might as well be completely fictional.

There is, I guess, a serious point to be made about how people can be convinced to follow such madmen, but again nothing we do here is going to affect cult subscription statistics either way. I think the humour is entirely unproblematic, given the obviously abstract register and degree of detachment with which it is offered.

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35. Comment #154779 by HourglassMemory on April 3, 2008 at 5:40 pm

Tsk, tsk, tsk.
No surprise there.

I'm glad they're out of the cave.

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36. Comment #154781 by mikejswalker on April 3, 2008 at 5:43 pm

Gotta disagree carto,

Not sure if the derision would exist if a woman who lost a child did the same thing. Or an athiest, or dawkins, or.... you get the picture. The derision comes from his religiosity and where it has taken him. Not feeling that cosy here in the warmth of my big chair. I get haunted by these stories because they scream thru the opium of cyber space about the frailty of the human condition.

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37. Comment #154785 by mikejswalker on April 3, 2008 at 5:48 pm

'lazy sexism'? Not sure if that is supposed to equate with the story.
But you're right. Gotta watch that.

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38. Comment #154788 by Cartomancer on April 3, 2008 at 5:54 pm

I find it quite easy to abstract the humorous images from the underlying possibility of mental illness as it happens. The difference is that a doomsday cult has comedy value where a depressed mother or a random atheist simply does not. I think it is perfectly possible to laugh at the silly situations a man finds himself in while simultaneously recognising the tragedy that underlies them. The later tragi-comedies of Euripides, for instance, make much play on these sorts of situations. Maybe it's just how I think about these things...

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39. Comment #154791 by paulifa1 on April 3, 2008 at 5:57 pm

To Richard Morgan,
Richard, I do see where you are coming from, this sort of behavior is indeed tragic, but I disagree with your comment:

"Because I presume that atheists and rationalists are just as liable to suffer from mental sickness"

I would strongly suspect that those with minds that are more susceptible to believing the utter blather and nonsense (Memes?) fed to them by religious leaders are also far more likely to suffer from mental disorders than rational thinking people.

Also, I always find it amazing that a person walking around telling everyone they have an invisible friend called Elvis, who guides them through life is considered to be certifiable, yet substitute Elvis for Jesus, and the condition suffered becomes faith and is, at least in some quarters, respected!

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40. Comment #154792 by Radesq on April 3, 2008 at 5:58 pm

It's sometimes difficult for me to decide who to mock and have disdain for because of their preaching of obviously absurd and delusional beliefs and who to feel pity for because of their mental illness. Is there a qualitative difference here or is it the same sickness and just a matter of degree and deciding where to draw a line?

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41. Comment #154799 by Teratornis on April 3, 2008 at 6:08 pm

On mental illness: ex-Muslim apostates can use that excuse to avoid being killed, sometimes, so it has its uses.

On bar codes: I heard about a kid named Damien who could read them. And shoot fire out of his eyes. (Actually I just made that up.)

Other Comments by Teratornis

42. Comment #154813 by MelM on April 3, 2008 at 6:40 pm

OT

The Hitchens vs Hitchens debate in Michigan has just finished. The webcast was very good and Christopher was running with all cylinders firing every time, with plenty of ideas I'd not seen before. If there's a chance to see the video, I don't think you'll be disappointed. With Q&A, it was 2 hours. This is the best Hitchens I can recall.

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43. Comment #154822 by Dr Benway on April 3, 2008 at 7:03 pm

I laugh at the mentally ill regularly. I'm a horrible person.

One woman previously under my care popped out her own eye and ate it. Later, she was fitted with a glass eye.

Kids living near her would say, "Don't mess with M or she'll throw her eye at you!"

And she would.

Or she'd eat it. The nurses then would encourage her to poop into a plastic hat for a day or so, in hopes of retrieving the eye. Those things aren't cheap.

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44. Comment #154824 by delta2echo on April 3, 2008 at 7:07 pm

Officials said that nine women and two men remained underground and were divided over whether to come out. They had not been told about Mr Kuznetsov's apparent suicide attempt and an Orthodox priest with specialist knowledge of apocalyptic literature had been brought in to talk to them.

Did no one see this? what exactly did he say to these people. What I'm trying to say here is that they actually NEEDED an "expert"
on apocalyptic literature to convince these people the end of the world wasnt comming.

Other Comments by delta2echo

45. Comment #154825 by RationalOlive on April 3, 2008 at 7:10 pm

I have to agree with Richard Morgan. I know we sometimes find ourselves viewing the faithful with contempt, but not everyone is strong enough to break the brainwashing. I was 57 years old before I finally dared to acknowledge to myself what I suspected for so many years...after being fed years of religious "education" from the age of one. Dr. Dawkins addresses this in The God Delusion. These people have been swimming in a sea of faith for years, and now some find themselves flopping like fish washed up on the beach. It's sad, not funny.

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46. Comment #154826 by dlitt on April 3, 2008 at 7:10 pm

Too funny - Is the rest worth reading? Could have been a Monty Python skit.

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47. Comment #154833 by Big T on April 3, 2008 at 7:24 pm

Dr Benway, give yourself a break. Mental illness runs in my family and I've been treated for depression. But sometimes it's hard not to laugh, and you are not a horrible person.

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48. Comment #154835 by babrock on April 3, 2008 at 7:29 pm

"people living in the cave considered themselves orthodox christians and not cult members.
Except for t living in t cave thing I would agree w/ them.
That and t thing w/ t cow I suppose.

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49. Comment #154836 by Dr Benway on April 3, 2008 at 7:33 pm

Ok one more: 12 year old boy with autism-ish problem likes to walk around with his hands postured as if he were holding a pair of invisible binoculars. Sometimes he looks through the circles he makes with his thumb and fingers. Mostly he just holds them down, arms relaxed.

The staff will then say, "Oh look. J's got his crotch goggles on."

Visual humor.

Some who walk into a room smeared with feces recoil in horror. Others pause and say, "Hey he missed a spot there." The latter seem best suited for this sort of work.

Cute boy post-viral encephalopathy, very limited communication, has moments of sudden panic when he says things like, "I'm afraid of cake!"

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50. Comment #154844 by ME!0364 on April 3, 2008 at 7:55 pm

Dr. Benway: That's weird, because my little brother has autism and he does something very similar when he's angry...

I personally think that finding this article funny isn't bad. The image of a guy trying to commit suicide by hitting his head against a log, the idea that someone can have a 'specialist' knowledge of the apocalypse, or being given a cow by the authorities, or tha fact that they say the end of the world is in May and are giving up already in April are all really funny.

That said, I sincerely hope that the rest of the cultists leave the cave before it collapses or something.

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