1. Comment #156889 by JemyM on April 8, 2008 at 11:16 am

Where do I place my trust and my hope.

I place my trust and my hope in humanity and the human spirit. I can see good people in all cultures, all nations, all religions, even the ones weighted down by the bad.

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2. Comment #156892 by TheSwede on April 8, 2008 at 11:19 am

I love (read: hate) the terminology by the reporter:
-"They do not believe in God"

Why doesn't he say "They do not believe in a god" or "they don't believe in any gods" or "they do not believe in any supernatural being or force"?

Saying what he does implies that they deviate from a standard. Culturally I can accept this, given that americans generally are christian - but to the idea of atheism this is irrelevant.

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3. Comment #156894 by AdrianB on April 8, 2008 at 11:22 am

Interesting that they suggest atheists have become more outspoken in response to the increasing power of the religious right.

Perhaps the penny will drop, that in their attempt to monopolise "everything" the religious right will one day end up with "nothing."

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4. Comment #156895 by Vaal on April 8, 2008 at 11:22 am

Where do I place my trust and my hope?

NOT in a despotic desert God who will fry me for eternity for not groveling in worship. In crisis, as we all do, just get through it with the help of friends and family, and understand that life does have some nasty elements we all have to face, as well as good, without obeisance to a non existent supernatural entity.

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5. Comment #156900 by Enlightenme.. on April 8, 2008 at 11:28 am

They found this family in America where ALL FOUR of them are rational human beings ?? This is some real weird shit.

"they suggest atheists have become more outspoken"
I think he said 'Lashing out'!

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6. Comment #156902 by friendly-atheist on April 8, 2008 at 11:30 am

"they don't believe in God!" dundundunnnnnnn!

they should have had scary horror film music at that part.

people should back up their beliefs with evidence? what a radical notion!

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7. Comment #156907 by phil rimmer on April 8, 2008 at 11:37 am

They found this family in America where ALL FOUR of them are rational human beings ?? This is some real weird shit.

Nah! It was faked. You could see when they turned away, they had glinty red eyes....

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8. Comment #156910 by Alkal on April 8, 2008 at 11:40 am

Whom do you trust...?

Myself, who is far more real than an invisible sky fairy...

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9. Comment #156911 by Colwyn Abernathy on April 8, 2008 at 11:41 am

"Vigorously responding to Christians who are outspoken in politics..."

Yeah, it's ALL ABOUT YOU. Irrational word and deed is the same regardless of creed, that means ANY god/goddess/deity. Your particular brand of theism isn't special, just the most popular in the US.

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10. Comment #156912 by yussel123 on April 8, 2008 at 11:42 am

There is NO family in America all of whose members are rational. I would wager that there are few, if any, who have even 1 rational member

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11. Comment #156914 by Colwyn Abernathy on April 8, 2008 at 11:45 am

Myself, who is far more real than an invisible sky fairy...

And my Fellow Travelers. Sure, they can let me down, betray me, or take advantage of me, but at least there's something REAL to blame and count on alike.

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12. Comment #156919 by JSCintron on April 8, 2008 at 11:54 am

You make a very good point TheSwede.

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13. Comment #156922 by FreeThink25 on April 8, 2008 at 11:55 am

What do you place your trust in during time of need?

Translation: You mean you don't have an imaginary friend?!?

This question doesn't even make any sense. It operates under the premise that you MUST place trust in something external during a time of need, rather than just adapting/surviving/coping. A gazelle being chased by a cheetah doesn't place its trust in anything...it just runs its ass off.

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14. Comment #156927 by jimbob on April 8, 2008 at 12:00 pm

When are we going to stop this passive approach to the "how can you be moral without god" question?

For goodness sake --- religion is an impediment to humanistic morality more often than not! Let's go on the offensive and point that out for a change!

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15. Comment #156933 by kaiser on April 8, 2008 at 12:07 pm

The Bishop looks like George Carlin

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16. Comment #156936 by rotaTOR on April 8, 2008 at 12:13 pm

There is NO family in America all of whose members are rational. I would wager that there are few, if any, who have even 1 rational member


I will wager that you fool. 300 million people are all irrational? what nonsense. how old are you?

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17. Comment #156937 by Blue Monster 65 on April 8, 2008 at 12:14 pm

Interesting ... it locked up on me when it got to the Pastor asking, "Where do you place your hope?"

How about in my family and friends? How about in the fact that they are more likely to behave rationally and logically than someone who places than someone who places their faith in fairytales?

People, good sir, who are willing to do the right thing and be there in times of trouble and strife for their families and friends, as I would be for them.

Woof! - Scott

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18. Comment #156938 by mrjonno on April 8, 2008 at 12:15 pm

Its just weird watching that program as a Brit.
We share the same language as the US (mostly) but here 90% of citizens are atheist or agnostic/dont care where in the US 90% are seriously religious.

Just shows how culturely different we have become

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19. Comment #156944 by AmericanGodless on April 8, 2008 at 12:20 pm

The difference:
Religious morality: responsibility TO a moral code.
Godless morality: responsibility TO AND FOR a moral code.

The greatest evil of religion is that believers can do anything and feel good about it, just as long as they can pretend that it is approved by their god, their church, their pastor, or someone/something other than themselves. The godless have nobody else to blame, nothing to hide behind. How can you be moral without being godless?

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20. Comment #156947 by black wolf on April 8, 2008 at 12:27 pm

It's really irrelevant if some people (in the US) become outspoken atheists in reaction to the religious right, or not. What matters is that they have a case, and if the religious right would walk into the ocean never to resurface, the atheist case would be just as valid.

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21. Comment #156950 by yussel123 on April 8, 2008 at 12:31 pm

#16

Your question about my age is a non-sequitur.

I'll grant you that my comment was something of an over-statement. Forgive me.

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22. Comment #156967 by chezzyd on April 8, 2008 at 12:48 pm

Actually I think this is one of the kinder, more balanced reports I've seen on US news. Maybe the tide is turning? Maybe the consciousness raising that Richard, Sam et al have been doing is starting to filter through??

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23. Comment #157012 by atheist_peace on April 8, 2008 at 1:36 pm

"Religious scholar"

Isn't that a contradiction of terms?

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24. Comment #157014 by al-rawandi on April 8, 2008 at 1:39 pm

atheist_peace,




Nope. One who studies religion. Could be an anthropologist or historian.

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25. Comment #157036 by Pattern Seeker on April 8, 2008 at 1:55 pm

What!? There's an atheist who lives next door to me? Time to gather the pitchforks and torches and call the local mob for a witch hunt.

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26. Comment #157051 by Corylus on April 8, 2008 at 2:06 pm

Phil

Nah! It was faked. You could see when they turned away, they had glinty red eyes....

Damn straight. That poodle looked pretty shifty too.

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27. Comment #157099 by MelM on April 8, 2008 at 2:52 pm

"Where do you place your trust....?"

In March, there were two U.S. families who put there trust in the bishop's god. Their "prayer healing" for ill children didn't work; the kids died. Maybe this bishop should be reinterviewed; it would be interesting to see what puke he disgorges next time.

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28. Comment #157130 by annabanana on April 8, 2008 at 3:13 pm

I love how at the beginning of the story, the journalist says something like "By all appearances, the Lowes are a normal, loving family..." as if he's about to tell you something that will show that they are not a normal loving family. WTF!?!

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29. Comment #157132 by ZekeCDN on April 8, 2008 at 3:15 pm

Sure we can pick nits with the report (or some of the terminology used) but overall I thought it was a refreshingly positive portrayal--especially when compared with the typical treatment of the subject in the U.S. media. Remember that farcical "panel discussion" on CNN last year?

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30. Comment #157167 by MarieCooper on April 8, 2008 at 3:46 pm

I can't believe that America (or anywhere) needs to have this discussion and be told that atheist are ordinary people too.
Do they think we all have horns and tails?

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31. Comment #157185 by FightingFalcon on April 8, 2008 at 4:12 pm

There is NO family in America all of whose members are rational. I would wager that there are few, if any, who have even 1 rational member

Well, we can be sure that whatever country you are from has at least 1 completely ignorant person.

Its just weird watching that program as a Brit.
We share the same language as the US (mostly) but here 90% of citizens are atheist or agnostic/dont care where in the US 90% are seriously religious.

Just shows how culturely different we have become

I'm not really sure where this myth comes from that America is overrun with religious fanatics while Britain is totally secular. There's a study on Anglo-American attitudes in the most recent issue of The Economist and Americans were 80%/15% on whether they believe in god or not. Brits were 40%/35% on the question of god, with the former # being the amount who believed and the latter answering no.

I don't know where you got the idea that 90% of Brits are a hodgepodge of Atheists, Agnostics and/or Indifferent. I do agree that most Brits seem to be fairly indifferent, although I would doubt the % that you gave. FYI - I'm an American living in the UK.

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32. Comment #157212 by tony the coastie on April 8, 2008 at 5:37 pm

#14 jimbob-I couldn't agree more. Recently I presented the argument that atheists can have moral character to some right-wing nutjobs. They, of course, brought up their usual-Hitler, communism, etc. Someone really needs to dispel the lies the religious right continue to spread. I swear I am going to re-read TGD and take notes that I can carry in my pocket!

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33. Comment #157250 by Shane Williams on April 8, 2008 at 7:10 pm

We're not a miniority, and we haven't been for quite some time. The title ended the video before it started.

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34. Comment #157257 by Bueller_007 on April 8, 2008 at 7:22 pm

The thing I disliked most was when the guy said he was an atheist because of the "certainty of science".

I think I understand what he meant, but I could easily see how that phrase would mislead the faithheads into thinking that atheism is about "faith in science".

Scientific claims are uncertain, and we admit it. They're always open to revision based on new evidence. That's what makes it superior to the "certain" claims of religion.

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35. Comment #157276 by headcold on April 8, 2008 at 8:15 pm

I hated that more than I've hated anything in a while.

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36. Comment #157333 by Raiko on April 8, 2008 at 11:51 pm

What do you place your trust in during time of need?

... some people have trustworthy friends and family. Really.

It almost seems like that's a novel concept to the people who made this program.

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37. Comment #157371 by John Desclin on April 9, 2008 at 2:13 am

to #19 (156944) by Americangodless

these sentences of yours are among the most to the point I have ever read on this thread and on this subject elsewhere (anywhere)! I think it deserves a large publicity. Congratulations for such clarity!

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38. Comment #157450 by Ned Flanders on April 9, 2008 at 5:43 am

What a great load of steaming shite.

And next week, a family who don;t believe in pixies.

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39. Comment #157461 by phasmagigas on April 9, 2008 at 5:57 am

the tone of that piece is a bit odd, its almost like atheists are some curiosity, normal on the outside but behind the curtains have something they hide suitable for a circus side show. Once again, redundant questions on trust and goodness, thats all they have left, straws to clutch.

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40. Comment #157464 by Wosret on April 9, 2008 at 6:07 am

Nothing makes me feel like such an outsider when I see these news reports. They are (quite poorly) attempting to explain a position that should be a logical necessity from any kind of objection position.

Unless you believe the truth to be relative, which it seems more and more people do from what I see. Most recently RD getting berated for saying that women's opinion on a factional issue didn't matter on "The Big Question."

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41. Comment #157466 by phasmagigas on April 9, 2008 at 6:07 am

the atheist next door.

well its interesting that a family (a very pleasant one too)in our street who are homeschoolers and very religious often invite me to their home when their kids want to know something about an animal/bug they have found, they seem to feel im a very amiable person and obviously trustworthy, (its interesting though that dad might ask me something like 'so is this creature in the same family as that creature'!!!!!!!!!! GO FIGURE, and he opposes darwinism).

anyway i not sure how they would feel if they knew just what i really am although i'm finding it difficult to hide the horns, they are still short but the velvet is starting to break down at the moment!!

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42. Comment #157469 by keith on April 9, 2008 at 6:16 am

Where do I place my trust and my hope.

I place my trust and my hope in humanity and the human spirit. I can see good people in all cultures, all nations, all religions, even the ones weighted down by the bad.

Amen and halleluyah to that, brother/sister!

However, if I were you I would try and whittle down my 'Things and people I trust' list a tiny bit, at least so that it no longer includes anyone and everyone on God's green Earth.

To trust both 'humanity' and 'the human spirit' is like trusting air: it's all around us and some of it stinks. How about trusting the people who have shown themselves worthy of your trust, not trusting the ones who have cheated you and reserving judgment on the other 99% of the world's population?

Trusting in humanity and the human spirit sounds warm and big-hearted, but what does it mean?

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43. Comment #157488 by Valiant on April 9, 2008 at 7:00 am

Notice in the end how she said "good arguments on both sides".

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44. Comment #157505 by ZekeCDN on April 9, 2008 at 7:50 am

It's not that I mind being the odd man out, honest, but since I seem to have had such a different reaction from everyone else, I offer some perspectives from last year.

I thought our friends in the American media had evolved nicely in the past year :-)

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45. Comment #157583 by RamziD on April 9, 2008 at 9:44 am

For those of you who do not live in the US, you might not appreciate that this news report was at least a step in the right direction towards presenting atheists in a positive light. In a country where atheists are widely despised because we are distrusted, the first step is to show religious people that "Yes, the atheists do live next door and they are normal just like you" (if you will grant the viewpoint that religious people are normal... sorry, couldn't resist). While it may seem obvious to us to the point that we are insulted when someone else comes to this "grand conclusion", we must realize that this is the harsh reality in the US and it will take some time and effort before the zeitgeist is changed.

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46. Comment #157647 by Raiko on April 9, 2008 at 11:27 am

#39:

the tone of that piece is a bit odd, its almost like atheists are some curiosity, normal on the outside but behind the curtains have something they hide suitable for a circus side show. Once again, redundant questions on trust and goodness, thats all they have left, straws to clutch.

What I find more odd is that they somehow make believe that this secretivity is the atheists' fault. What should follow such a presentation is why, within their society, these people seem like they need to hide something that should need absolutely no hiding. It's not like there's something wrong with someone not believing in God. Rather, a society that can't deal with that needs to reflect upon itself.

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47. Comment #157776 by bluebird on April 9, 2008 at 2:14 pm

We liked this news clip; as RamziD says, it's a step in the right direction, at least.

This family could be us, except we have sons, and a Miniature Schnauzer ;)

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48. Comment #157823 by FightingFalcon on April 9, 2008 at 3:14 pm

Zeke,

It's not that I mind being the odd man out, honest, but since I seem to have had such a different reaction from everyone else, I offer some perspectives from last year.

I thought our friends in the American media had evolved nicely in the past year :-)

I just watched the video that you linked to from CNN

Linky

I've been very vocal on this board about how foolish it is for Atheists to go after "In God We Trust" and "Under God" on US currency and in the Pledge of Allegiance, respectively. Part 1 of that story mentioned both cases and Part 2 (the debate) brought up the Pledge numerous times, as well as Michael Newdow. I can't express enough how opposed I am to going after the Pledge. I keep trying to tell people that it only hurts our cause but everyone thinks that its a target worth going after.

That whole debate just pissed me off though. Why is the ESPN sports commentator the only remote voice of reason there? Not to mention a black woman telling Atheists to shut up is ironic, given the history of blacks in America. Prayer in schools? UGH - I thought we settled that issue already?!

I'm too angry from watching that video. I need to go calm down....

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49. Comment #157826 by heathen2 on April 9, 2008 at 3:15 pm

I found the tone of this annoying too. They report it with the approach that atheists are some odd weird bunch of people. I don't think that is how the public views us. Despite the polls of atheists being mistrusted to hold public office, I just never get that reaction when the question of atheism comes up. Maybe others have a different experience, perhaps depending on what part of the country you reside.

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50. Comment #157920 by ZekeCDN on April 9, 2008 at 6:30 pm

Thank you RamziD and Bluebird for reassuring me that I wasn't nuts for detecting an (admittedly) small improvement in the tone of that CBS report. Although I don't live in the US, I'm just across the border (where we receive all of the American networks) and I'm all too aware that it's not just politicians who pander to the believers.

FightingFalcon wrote:

I just watched the video that you linked to from CNN

I actually agree with you that atheists should save whatever political capital they may have for important causes, instead of squandering it on "moral victories"--like the pledge and the currency--that won't accomplish anything, except to give our opponents cheap ammunition (by making us look petty).

The so-called "debate" in that first CNN clip I linked infuriated me too. It was absurd that Stephen Smith, a sportscaster (why was he even there?), had the only lick of sense among the pundits. Despite the fact that even he felt the need to continually repeat that he didn't agree with atheists, after it aired I did send him an email to thank him for defending free speech.

In case any others missed it, I'll repeat the link here. I can't imagine that anyone who watches this won't see the report at the top of the page as an improvement in the situation.

PS to Bluebird: Miniature Schnauzers are cool; we have a Welsh Terrier--which is essentially a black and tan version of your dog :-)

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