Saturday, April 19, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version

Sex for diploma offer caught on tape

by ABC News 13

Thanks to Richard Prins for the link.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/13_undercover&id=6085999

Sex for diploma offer caught on tape

By Wayne Dolcefino

HOUSTON (KTRK) -- The founder of a Christian school is confronted after 13 Undercover catches him soliciting sex from a parent, who's trying to get her daughter a high school diploma.

At graduation ceremonies he talks about God, but you'll hear the founder of a Houston-area Christian school not only talk about sex, but ask for it on tape.

It's the middle of the day when a white pickup truck pulls into the back of a motel on 1960. Then it goes to the very back to park for a long while. We already know who the driver is. His name is LaVern Jordan and he runs Parkway Christian School.

Dolcefino: "What were you doing there at the La Quinta."

Jordan: "I wasn't doing anything at the La Quinta sir."

Dolcefino: "Were you there?"

Jordan: "I was there."

Dolcefino: "What were you doing there?"

Jordan: "I was just driving around. Why?"

Of course when Mr. Jordan was parked all that time, we were undercover just a couple of cars away.

Dolcefino: "Were you going there to get lucky?"

Jordan: "No, absolutely not."

Dolcefino: "You weren't going there for sex?"

Jordan: "No."

The woman getting in Jordan's passenger seat is a parent who's been trying to get her 18 year daughter enrolled in Jordan's school.

"She hadn't passed the TAKS test and she hasn't got all her credits, that's the reason we are going to that school," the mother told us.

A fee to the school and some course work can get students a diploma without passing the required state test at Parkway Christian School, where the Web site boasts, "a program based on Christian character, morals, values and integrity."

Dolcefino: "How long were you talking to him before sex came into it?"

Mother: "No longer than five or ten minutes."

Dolcefino: "What were you thinking?"

Mother: "This man has got to be crazy."

Now back to Jordan.

Dolcefino: "There's no tape?"

Jordan: "Will you get out of my way please?"

Dolcefino: "There's no tape of you and this woman?"

Jordan: "No. Wayne will you please move? No."

Dolcefino: "Well, you're going to hear it."

And so are you.

Jordan on tape: "Do you have sexual relationships often anymore? Are you seeing a man now?"

Mother: "No. Nuh-uh."

Jordan had already promised to waive the $300 school enrollment fee for a much different kind of payment.

Jordan: "For the uh, enrollment fee and stuff like that, maybe you and I can do something, you think?"

Mother: "Yeah, what, I mean what, what, you gonna wipe out all the fees?"

Jordan: "All the enrollment fees."

Mother: "All the enrollment fees?"

Jordan: "Three hundred dollars."

Mother: "So you gonna wipe everything if me and you get together?"

Jordan: "The enrollment fee, yeah."

Mother: "Ok."

Jordan: "If you and I get together."

Mother: "What you mean? I mean, what?

Jordan: "Excuse me and I don't mean to be so blunt but I am talking about f------ you."

Mother: "You talking about what?"

Jordan: "F------ you."

"I couldn't believe someone was saying such things like that," the mother told us. "I couldn't believe it."

And the tape shows Jordan wasn't just talking about a one time thing.

Jordan: "For the $300 I would expect maybe we could get together several times, you think?"

Mother: "Several times, whatcha mean several times?"

Jordan: "Well I don't know, you might like whatcha getting."

Jordan was ready for action right then.

Jordan: "If you're not in like just a great big hurry, I know uh, of a place not too far that we can go and I can just do that we can just do some play around a little bit. Would you like that?"

Jordan: "We could go and we could do some t--ty play."

Jordan wanted to make sure no one else would know.

Jordan: "Nobody else will know nothing?"

Mother: "Nuh-uh."

Jordan: "Can I touch you?"

But our parent will make Mr. Jordan wait for his sexual rendezvous and this time she'll be carrying our hidden camera and microphone.

"I was meeting with him specifically for y'all to expose him to the world and to those parents sending their kids up there," the mother told us.

Thursday at 10pm, the rendezvous we caught on tape. You won't hear it anywhere else.

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1. Comment #164136 by PrexicKehdaki on April 19, 2008 at 3:45 pm

I've posted this on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPXmgXDJ3vQ

Other Comments by PrexicKehdaki

2. Comment #164142 by robotaholic on April 19, 2008 at 3:54 pm

at least it wasn't ben stein

Other Comments by robotaholic

3. Comment #164146 by Geoff on April 19, 2008 at 4:02 pm

Lying down for jesus?

Other Comments by Geoff

4. Comment #164152 by TheHardProblem on April 19, 2008 at 4:24 pm

I fail to see the importance of this news. We all know that christians are as moral or immoral as all the rest of us.
No matter how much we want to, he is not the face of Christian hypocrisy.
This is just one guy commiting a crime.

Or was it because of his Christian faith that he acted in this way?

Other Comments by TheHardProblem

5. Comment #164153 by Goodwithwood on April 19, 2008 at 4:32 pm

Well, that's how Forrest Gump's mama got him into school. "Ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah"

Other Comments by Goodwithwood

6. Comment #164162 by Grantaire of JC on April 19, 2008 at 4:43 pm

Well he was a "lay" faculty member of the school

Other Comments by Grantaire of JC

7. Comment #164164 by black wolf on April 19, 2008 at 4:48 pm

What I'm wondering is not about why someone would make an indecent offer like this. What I'm wondering about is why are religious schools allowed to hand out diplomas without proper tests. A school diploma is supposedly an achievement certificate for the purpose of reflecting a specific standard. When schools can arbitrarily choose to ignore those standards under the guise of religion, the certificate loses all credibility. If that's okay in the US education system (is it?), why not just skip the school part and put youth right into college for a few hundred bucks?

Other Comments by black wolf

8. Comment #164166 by SilentMike on April 19, 2008 at 4:51 pm

That's just lovely.

Other Comments by SilentMike

9. Comment #164168 by cam9976 on April 19, 2008 at 4:56 pm

Well, I think we should look at the bright side: at least it wasn't an alterboy.

Other Comments by cam9976

10. Comment #164201 by babrock on April 19, 2008 at 5:37 pm

I work w/ self professed christians and this type of behavior I have found is rather typical. I have a coworker who is often bragging about his $ for sex offers to a large number of t women we encounter. He graces me w/ details of when his offers are accepted, like w/ both t mother and t daughter(daughters possibly, on that I am not sure) and when they are rejected. I think I am supposed to think he is clever somehow. Tho he also complains about t problems he is having w/ his marriage, problems he blames on his wife.

My other favorite is my co-worker who brags about "only needing to be honest w/ Jebus". Here he was referring to his ex wives.

Other Comments by babrock

11. Comment #164203 by k1mgy on April 19, 2008 at 5:41 pm

This rather blows (pun) the idea that these people need a "baable" for their morality: $300 for one fling sounds about right. But multiple encounters? That's stealing, and I think it's one of the big no-no's.

Well, now that Parkway "Christian" School will soon change ownership, the best this woman can do for society is to shut it down.

Other Comments by k1mgy

12. Comment #164210 by babrock on April 19, 2008 at 5:50 pm

To be fair tho, w/ my co-workers, none of this was an abuse of authority at least, which is where I have t biggest problem w/ Mr. Jordan. The hypocrisy is a given.

Other Comments by babrock

13. Comment #164214 by agg on April 19, 2008 at 5:59 pm

TheHardProblem and black wolf: My sentiment, exactly!

Other Comments by agg

14. Comment #164218 by EvidenceOnly on April 19, 2008 at 6:05 pm

Steven Weinberg said: "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion."

We often see people lead a parallel evil life and this is at its worse when people do it from a religious position of authority (as is the case with this founder of a christian school).

Here is the recipe:

1. Claim fundamental unshaken belief in something for which absolutely no evidence exists (religion)
2. Proclaim that this gives you the right to define morality for all of us
3. Get involved with young children (schools and churches) to indoctrinate them with your worldview before they develop critical thinking
4. Use your position in or association with religion as a facade to abuse children (the Catholic Church) and their parents (as is the case here)
5. When caught, deny and cover up as long as you can
6. When your evil act is undeniable, say you're sorry many many times (as the Pope did this week).

With some luck, especially if these evil acts have gone on for a long time on a massive scale, you may get welcomed with open arms by an equally pious but corrupt world leader (as happened this week).

Yes believers and non-believers do bad things but we should not be surprised that the faithful seem over-represented in the prison system while the leaders of the faithful who are very good at covering up never get caught and keep getting praised.

That is one of the many reasons why religion poisons everything.

Other Comments by EvidenceOnly

15. Comment #164232 by Enlightenme.. on April 19, 2008 at 7:02 pm

"Or was it because of his Christian faith that he acted in this way?"

Hur, hur, Good point.

I really feel uneasy to see our side ever descend to the 'Torquemada was a Christian' argument, It never holds water anyway, because the simplest retort is God made us and Eve broke us.

Hitch's Achilles heel.

Other Comments by Enlightenme..

16. Comment #164239 by Mitchell Gilks on April 19, 2008 at 7:37 pm

I think that the deeply religious are often evil and sick people. That feel that they need forgiveness for their sins, and lack the courage and integrity to seek forgiveness from the people they've wronged, and reframe from doing such things again.

Instead they opt, not only for the forgiveness from an imaginary friend, but for the permission to keep doing it. Because we are lowly evil humans, and it's all Satan's fault. Luckily anything you do is forgiven as long as you ask your imaginary friend.

Martin Luther once said in so many words "Jesus died for our sins, it would be both a shame, and a slap in the face if you don't make his sacrifice worth it. Otherwise he died for nothing, so sin, sin, sin."

Other Comments by Mitchell Gilks

17. Comment #164246 by whatyouthink on April 19, 2008 at 8:26 pm

LOL he was just SEXposed!!!

Other Comments by whatyouthink

18. Comment #164250 by TheGreatBZ on April 19, 2008 at 8:49 pm

I agree with TheHardProblem. (Post #4)

Other Comments by TheGreatBZ

19. Comment #164251 by skyhook0 on April 19, 2008 at 8:55 pm

I also don't see what the point of this is. It's one random guy committing a crime. I'm a fan of Richard Dawkins because of a commitment to reason. Picking out this one guy and pretending it somehow proves anything is quite /un/reasonable.

Other Comments by skyhook0

20. Comment #164252 by aquilacane on April 19, 2008 at 9:02 pm

I didn't see any evidence that it was actually him saying those things or him sitting in that truck. I don't even know if those things were said in that truck. I don't know if mother actually spoke at all, or if the female voice was actually hers. I have no idea who mother is, and no face to check against. I see no evidence of a daughter. I reserve judgment for further information.

Other Comments by aquilacane

21. Comment #164258 by black wolf on April 19, 2008 at 9:46 pm

More is IN:
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/13_undercover&id=6088286

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/13_undercover&id=6090312

"Before our parking lot confrontation with Mr. Jordan, the school's website called him its spiritual backbone. Now Jordan's face and picture are gone A statement posted says Jordan "...is no longer affiliated in any way with Parkway Christian School." It says the school has forgiven him for his wrong action. But there is no direct apology to Tamiku Robertson, no promise of an investigation."

http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou070802_ac_buying.d727ec29.html
" State law is explicit that if a secondary student can't pass the state assessment test, they can't graduate from a public school.

So just before the end of their senior year, those kids transferred to Lavern Jordan's private school, Parkway Christian school, where with $250 they could get a diploma. "

Other Comments by black wolf

22. Comment #164264 by Saerain on April 19, 2008 at 10:36 pm

Someone, please give Texas its verbs back.

Other Comments by Saerain

23. Comment #164268 by doglived on April 19, 2008 at 11:02 pm

#22 "Someone, please give Texas its verbs back." Thanks for the laugh! :)

Other Comments by doglived

24. Comment #164270 by irate_atheist on April 19, 2008 at 11:54 pm

You're fucking nicked, me old beauty!

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25. Comment #164282 by Timmeh! on April 20, 2008 at 1:55 am

While it seems quite clear that he's committed a crime, and he really was offering money for sex, something doesn't quite seem to add up. How and why was the original conversation recorded? We are told that she had this conversation, then contacted the news team and they wired her, but where did the original recording come from?
I'm wondering if someone else had reported this sort of thing going on and this woman was a plant sent in already wired to expose the hypocritical old bastard.

Oh and I disagree with those who are saying this story is not relevant. Granted, on it's own it proves nothing except that some people are sleezy scumbags, but it's one more point in the "christians are no more moral than atheists" argument that we have to get into so many times. Personally I suspect it's the repression caused by the puritanical regimes that causes people to seek relief in these ways. They are denied, or deny themselves, perfectly acceptable sexual practices, and so are forced to underhandedly seek relief in other ways secretively. I think it's the same thing that drives so many supposedly celibate catholic ministers to prey (or pray ;)) on the young and vulnerable.

Other Comments by Timmeh!

26. Comment #164287 by Steve Zara on April 20, 2008 at 2:29 am

I am afraid, like others, I can't see the point of this story. It does not show that Christians in general are immoral. To draw any such conclusions from a story like this would be inappropriate.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

27. Comment #164294 by phil rimmer on April 20, 2008 at 2:52 am

Why is this here? I don't think it reflects well on this site. I would vote for its removal if I could.

Other Comments by phil rimmer

28. Comment #164295 by Geoff on April 20, 2008 at 2:55 am

Steve, as black wolf says, the main point, as I see it, is the [lack of] educational standards of the school.
The hypocrisy of "biblical morality" is incidental.

Still, as with the Ted Haggard case, it's "another brick in the wall".

Other Comments by Geoff

29. Comment #164299 by jaytee_555 on April 20, 2008 at 3:04 am

I'm another person who agrees with comment 4 by "The Hard Problem" and I also fail to see why this news item was posted here.

This man's behaviour was clearly wrong; but it was no more a consequence of his being a Christian than Stalin's behaviour was due to his being an atheist. Posters who gleefully jump on this sort of thing as if it were some kind of argument against Christianity are commiting exactly the same error as those Christians who make the "Stalin was an atheist" claim.

By all means, let us criticise Christianity, but let's be fair and logical about it.

Other Comments by jaytee_555

30. Comment #164301 by phil rimmer on April 20, 2008 at 3:08 am

the main point, as I see it, is the [lack of] educational standards of the school.

But the evidence on display here is paltry. There may well be a problem but THAT story just hasn't been got yet. As an editor I'd say go back and keep digging.

Other Comments by phil rimmer

31. Comment #164302 by Enlightenme.. on April 20, 2008 at 3:11 am

"Why is this here? I don't think it reflects well on this site. I would vote for its removal if I could"

I disagree, whilst I agree with Hard problem [#4], the last point that Timmeh![#25] makes is what this illustrates.
Religion poisons everything. People get power from it which they can so easily abuse.

Other Comments by Enlightenme..

32. Comment #164306 by rodviking on April 20, 2008 at 3:17 am

I second those who question why this news story should be here; linking the acts of the guy with religion is falling into the exact same fallacy that religious people do when they associate atheism with the acts of one or another bad person that happens to be an atheist. This site should be above this kind of silly finger pointing.

Other Comments by rodviking

33. Comment #164308 by phil rimmer on April 20, 2008 at 3:25 am

There is insufficient evidence for even Timmeh's! last point to be made with any confidence.

Give it a day or two and some more substantial material may be dredged up. Until then, proving religion poisons everything from this thin stuff just looks a bit desperate.

Other Comments by phil rimmer

34. Comment #164310 by Steve Zara on April 20, 2008 at 3:28 am

Comment #164308 by phil rimmer

Until then, proving religion poisons everything from this thin stuff just looks a bit desperate.

I agree.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

35. Comment #164314 by Darwin's badger on April 20, 2008 at 3:34 am

Yeah, this is a bit of a non-story, and it doesn't do the site many favours.

Other Comments by Darwin's badger

36. Comment #164317 by Enlightenme.. on April 20, 2008 at 3:37 am

^ Sorry, You're right, I should have said seems to illustrate.

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37. Comment #164327 by clintonjason on April 20, 2008 at 4:34 am

this is so typical... the usual christian rubbish...

"Chi predica bene e razzola male" (religious incoehrence)

I wonder if "Pig-Man" will go to heaven?

("maybe" Heaven does not exist and "maybe" Pig-Men just like pigs and like men do not survive after death...)

But you're still a Pig-Man Mister Jordan! Oink Oink

Other Comments by clintonjason

38. Comment #164330 by clintonjason on April 20, 2008 at 4:42 am

...and to all those who wrote:

"this thin stuff just looks a bit desperate"

There are so many people who FIRTS talk about God and Jesus and Faith and then they start using all that rubbish to act like bastards...

Don't think this is "thin stuff". Am I wrong?

Other Comments by clintonjason

39. Comment #164332 by Quetzalcoatl on April 20, 2008 at 4:45 am

Saw this on Pharyngula, not entirely sure why it's here though. All it does is illustrate one man's hypocrisy. It's hardly indicative of anything in general. We can do better than this, surely?

Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl

40. Comment #164333 by clintonjason on April 20, 2008 at 4:50 am

well Quetzalcoatl... don't you think it's quite strange that those who are always talking about Morals and Values are the ones who should stick to their Morals and Values? I personally believe this is typical "religious" Hypocrisy.

Other Comments by clintonjason

41. Comment #164335 by Quetzalcoatl on April 20, 2008 at 4:54 am

Clintonjason-

I do think there's a danger in applying this too generally. You're right in that those who claim that their morals and values come from God should perhaps be better behaved, and the fact that they aren't says something about that claim. But calling it "typical" might be a stretch. Everyone is a hypocrite about something, but there are fewer people who would do what the guy on the tape did.

Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl

42. Comment #164336 by Steve Zara on April 20, 2008 at 4:57 am

Comment #164333 by clintonjason

I personally believe this is typical "religious" Hypocrisy.

I don't think this is justified. To say something is typical, one really needs a good sample. This is one story.

I think the message we should be putting out (if we want to put one out) should be that you don't need religion to be moral. This story just shows the hypocrisy of one man, and seems more along the lines of "even religious people can be bad". I am not sure what that is supposed to be saying. He isn't typical of religious people.

EDIT: Quetz largely beat me to it, so I will add something a bit stronger: I think we should do better than picking up on stories like this. I would rather that stories here were of greater significance. They are understandable on PZ's blog has he posts stories of all kinds, and posts often.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

43. Comment #164337 by Colwyn Abernathy on April 20, 2008 at 4:59 am

HA HA HA! Graduation couch...

Seriously not surprised tho. Peoples is peoples, and we're ultimately ruled by the hunk of meat in our skulls. So we'll do what we want assuming if we get caught we can always apologise, as well as cry. Yes, Swaggart, I'm talking about you.

Other Comments by Colwyn Abernathy

44. Comment #164339 by Quetzalcoatl on April 20, 2008 at 5:01 am

Clintonjason-

something I would add about the dangers of generalising. I don't know how long you've been around this site, but we get a lot of theists slinging accusations such as "you believe in naturalism and therefore moral relativism" or "you don't believe in absolute morality, so how can you say anything is wrong" or "you atheists think you're so much better than religious people".

By generalising about religious people, we fall into the same trap, and can often provide ammunition for quote-miners (certain theistic posters are expert at that). That's why I advocate caution.

Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl

45. Comment #164346 by whig on April 20, 2008 at 5:19 am

This should not be one of the featured news item of this site and I am disappointed that it has appeared, being a frequent visitor. Unfortunately, there will always be perverts and sex abusers, and churches, particularly the Roman Catholic Church, do have a lot to answer for covering stories up, but this particular story has little to do with the aims of this site, promoting reason and science, and criticizing religion in society. It makes as much sense as a story a founder of a humanist school asking the mother of one of his pupils for sex being on the website of an evangelical Christian society.

Other Comments by whig

46. Comment #164351 by Peacebeuponme on April 20, 2008 at 5:30 am

Steve

I am afraid, like others, I can't see the point of this story. It does not show that Christians in general are immoral. To draw any such conclusions from a story like this would be inappropriate.

I'm not what you mean here Steve. There is no "point" to the story in the sense that it proves something wider about religion, but it is a story about a Christian school head acting terribly. Why should it not get posted and discussed here?

Whig

This should not be one of the featured news item of this site and I am disappointed that it has appeared, being a frequent visitor. Unfortunately, there will always be perverts and sex abusers, and churches, particularly the Roman Catholic Church, do have a lot to answer for covering stories up, .

By that rational Christopher Hitchens may as well not have written his book.

At the very least this story is interesting because we have a character who probably really believes in "Christian values" and that he is a good person, but can forget them so easily when they interfere with other activities he wants to indulge in.

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme

47. Comment #164353 by Enlightenme.. on April 20, 2008 at 5:35 am

"That's why I advocate caution."

It's all about whether the subject is about a person, or if it's about what Religion may have done to that person, or the way that person may have used Religion.

You can generalise about Religion I say.

E.g - If a persons Homophobia, let's say, is 'excused' by their religion.
They are Homophobic because they are taught that's what you have to be.

Other Comments by Enlightenme..

48. Comment #164355 by Steve Zara on April 20, 2008 at 5:41 am

Comment #164351 by Peacebeuponme

Why should it not get posted and discussed here?

You have answered this yourself:

There is no "point" to the story in the sense that it proves something wider about religion, but it is a story about a Christian school head acting terribly.

How does this single story advance the discussion? If this was someone with national or international authority (such as Bishop or Archbishop), I could see the point.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

49. Comment #164358 by Radesq on April 20, 2008 at 5:50 am

The only point worth noting is that you can avoid having to pass some sort of test and still get your diploma if you go to a religious school. So much for "I'm not really religious but I send my kid to the religious school for a better education."

Other Comments by Radesq

50. Comment #164360 by Monosilabbiq on April 20, 2008 at 5:50 am

Although this article may not have a fundamental impact on the validity or not for a belief in god, it can serve a useful purpose.

For lots of people it is a revelation that their spiritual leaders are fallible. "I didn't know it was OK not to believe in god" is a thread that recurs. Well, this story - while not being philosophically a clincher - may help some people to start being sceptical about their individual spiritual gurus.

As well as helping me become more sceptical, logical and rational, I also find that this site helps me be a little bit more positive. I am very easily able to skim past the negative doom sayers who post here.

Other Comments by Monosilabbiq