Monday, April 21, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version

Mecca should become core to measure time zones: scholars

by Gulf Times

Thanks to drcancerman for the link.

http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=214103&version=1&template_id=36&parent_id=16

Mecca should become core to measure time zones: scholars

By Nour Abuzant
SPEAKERS at a Doha conference on Mecca's importance said that the holy city, not Greenwich, should become the reference point for world time, reigniting an old controversy that started some four decades ago.

A group of Islamic scholars presented on Saturday "scientific evidence" to prove that Mecca was the core of that the zero longitude passes through the holy city and not through Greenwich in the UK.

Greenwich in England has been the home of Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) since 1884. GMT is sometimes called Greenwich Meridian Time because it is measured from the Greenwich Meridian Line at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich. Greenwich is the place from where all time zones are measured.

In a clear support for the call, Islamic scholar Yousuf al-Qaradawi said Islam, "unlike other religions, never contradicted science".
The participants recommended the unification of the time in the Arab world to the time in Mecca instead of Greenwich. They also called the Arab governments to abandon the new world maps "because they are forged to serve Western interests."

They also demanded that buildings in the Arab world be directed towards Qibla.

The gathering also urged to organise conferences to promote the idea of "Mecca as the centre of the world's land" and distribution of CDs to support it.

The conference was organised to introduce Saat Makkah (the watch of Mecca). The inventor of the clock, Yasin a-Shouk, said it runs anti-clockwise in the direction of Tawaf, the rotation around Kaaba.
The Switzerland-based award-winning inventor of Palestinian origin said that his invention met a lot of opposition and it took him four years to win the patent.

The moderator of the event, Rabaa Hamo, who is also the wife of the watch's inventor, said "the West imposed on us the invisible Greenwich line" as the world's reference time.

She hoped that an Islamic country would adopt the project to strengthen the belief that Mecca was the core of the world, not theoretically but practically.

Islamic scholar, Zaghloul al-Najjar, said that the West did not like the scientific proofs that "Mecca was located in the centre of our planet, but nevertheless we will go on our research to establish it as a truth".

Other speakers talked about the privileges of Mecca quoting verses from the Holy Qur'an and the sayings of Prophet Muhammad.

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1. Comment #165173 by j.mills on April 21, 2008 at 7:09 am

A group of Islamic scholars presented on Saturday "scientific evidence" to prove that Mecca was the core of that the zero longitude passes through the holy city and not through Greenwich in the UK.

Switzerland-based inventor patents a 'cuckoo' clock... I await the 'proof' with interest! I'm reminded of Hitchens' comment that you can't argue against such statements, only underline them.

(Hey, I got first post! :) )

Other Comments by j.mills

2. Comment #165174 by Raigen on April 21, 2008 at 7:10 am

I would love to see their Scientific Evidence for Mecca being the "practical centre of the world".

Other Comments by Raigen

3. Comment #165179 by Partisan on April 21, 2008 at 7:17 am

Other speakers talked about the privileges of Mecca quoting verses from the Holy Qur'an and the sayings of Prophet Muhammad.

Scientific proofs indeed; I'm starting to think the phrase has lost all relevance in modern society.

Other Comments by Partisan

4. Comment #165181 by Quetzalcoatl on April 21, 2008 at 7:20 am

The participants recommended the unification of the time in the Arab world to the time in Mecca instead of Greenwich. They also called the Arab governments to abandon the new world maps "because they are forged to serve Western interests."

They also demanded that buildings in the Arab world be directed towards Qibla

Wow, these "scholars" sound like really smart people who are fully comfortable with the world we live in. I like the idea that world maps are forged to serve Western interests. I would have thought they were forged to serve the interests of anyone who wants to know where the hell they're going.

Islam, "unlike other religions, never contradicted science".

Two words. Flying. Horse.

Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl

5. Comment #165182 by hungarianelephant on April 21, 2008 at 7:25 am

Five more words.

Sperm. Originates. In. The. Spine.

One more word. Irate, if you please ...

Other Comments by hungarianelephant

6. Comment #165183 by BobbyWoodruff on April 21, 2008 at 7:25 am

She hoped that an Islamic country would adopt the project to strengthen the belief that Mecca was the core of the world, not theoretically but practically.

She does understand that the Earth is a sphere (more or less). That makes the core a very hot place.

These people really are nuts.

Other Comments by BobbyWoodruff

7. Comment #165185 by njwong on April 21, 2008 at 7:31 am

They'll probably want the world to adopt the Islamic calendar next. Narcissistic egomaniacs.

Other Comments by njwong

8. Comment #165186 by hungarianelephant on April 21, 2008 at 7:31 am

On the bright side, the light has finally dawned on me that Mike Batt's epic The Myths And Legends Of King Merton Womble And His Journey To The Centre Of The Earth is not some children's whimsy, but is in fact an Islamophobic piece about a crusade to Mecca.

http://www.mikebatt.com/wombles_lyrics1.html

I feel much better about that, thanks for asking.

Other Comments by hungarianelephant

9. Comment #165187 by j.mills on April 21, 2008 at 7:31 am

They also called the Arab governments to abandon the new world maps "because they are forged to serve Western interests."

To be fair, there is the old complaint that world maps typically plonk Europe in the middle - not only horizontally, but vertically, since the commonplace Mercator's Projection can't show the poles and usually cuts off more south than north (who cares about Antarctica?).

Mercator also grossly distorted size to preserve shape, for reasons important to 16th century navigators, and as it happens this broadly diminishes the apparent size of the poorer countries. None of that was done with political intent, but it may be that the continued prevalence of that acclaimed projection is partly down to unconscious political effects.

The famous Peters Projection and other equal-area projections are a response to this, trying to put the countries of the world in a clearer perspective. (Even made it to an episode of West Wing!) It's a better map for the classroom wall.

But the best place to get your view of the world is a globe.

Other Comments by j.mills

10. Comment #165188 by Henri Bergson on April 21, 2008 at 7:32 am

It may become the focal point of the world once we nuke it.

Other Comments by Henri Bergson

11. Comment #165190 by Rufus08 on April 21, 2008 at 7:37 am

Wow, more proof that modern Islamic scholars are some of the biggest fuckwits out there!

Other Comments by Rufus08

12. Comment #165192 by tieInterceptor on April 21, 2008 at 7:41 am

this is the clip I saw with a Muslim nut on TV saying that NASA saw energy coming out of mecca holding the world... and it's keeping it SECRET!
and that Neil Armstrong wanted to say that ALLah was the one who put the planet hanging there...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NPww2q6-kfE

apparently mecca is in the Zero magnetism zone, and it makes you live longer too... it's like... bullshit!

it's mind altering to think that people in some countries watch this stuff on tv and do take it seriously.

scary on a grand scale.

ps: on the response to that video, another jewel, the American Indians spoke Arabic! who knew? ...

Other Comments by tieInterceptor

13. Comment #165193 by HourglassMemory on April 21, 2008 at 7:43 am

Humans are quite interesting. They can make "evidence" for anything.
Talk about self-centered! These people think about nothing else.
There's no mind dynamics in these brains.

Other Comments by HourglassMemory

14. Comment #165194 by al-rawandi on April 21, 2008 at 7:45 am

Elephant,

Where did you hear about the sperm and spine deal?

I came across this "sperm from the spine" in the Qur'an. I thought it was odd, but not especially peculiar being that the document is generally at odds with science.

When doing research for a publication, I noticed that the idea of sperm emenating from the spine is an old Arab myth. It predates Islam and is an important part of several Arab myths of the pre-Islamic period.

So apparently Allah lifted this bit of science from the period which he has Muhammad label "The Period of Ignorance" (Jahiliyya).

How curious.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

15. Comment #165196 by Barry Pearson on April 21, 2008 at 7:46 am

In a clear support for the call, Islamic scholar Yousuf al-Qaradawi said Islam, "unlike other religions, never contradicted science".

Wow!

Given that many muslims contradict science, and many other muslims believe what they say, what does that statement actually mean?

http://www.harunyahya.com/
http://www.harunyahya.com/en.m_categorie_79.php
http://www.harunyahya.com/en.m_categorie_76.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_science
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=technology&res=9802E4D91730F933A05753C1A9679C8B63

Other Comments by Barry Pearson

16. Comment #165197 by JanChan on April 21, 2008 at 7:48 am

Someone has to remind fundamentalists that the reason the Greenwich Meridian works is because the international date and time line lies mostly in the oceans and ensuring that weird time paradoxes don't occur. (Like my neighbour living in 31st Dec 1999, while I live at 1st Jan 2000, and then I start jumping about in infinite time loops, and the space-time continuum gets so warped that it defies logic) And I would strongly object to them trying to screw up anything in the reality the rest of us live in.

And to you Christian fundamentalists out there, Greenwich isn't the "center" of the world because the KJB was written in that country, or any other weird warped up theory that you might possibly conceive.

Islamic scholar, Zaghloul al-Najjar, said that the West did not like the scientific proofs that "Mecca was located in the centre of our planet, but nevertheless we will go on our research to establish it as a truth".

Wait a minute, I didn't know Mecca was surrounded by a solid iron core so hot that it could keep the world's volcanoes and geysers running. Well, I guess I'll have to strike that off the list of places I want to go to observe cranky human behaviour.

Other Comments by JanChan

17. Comment #165198 by Vaal on April 21, 2008 at 7:48 am

So, dark ages one side of the Meridian and enlightened world on the other side. So, what happens to a time apostate, would he be put to death?

Wonder how they will worship Mecca in a few million years when it is under the sea. It would be like a fish bowl with all those pilgrims scuba diving around it. Be quite hard to stone that wall under water, and would that mean the devil is aquatic?

Other Comments by Vaal

18. Comment #165199 by funkyderek on April 21, 2008 at 7:49 am

They'll probably want the world to adopt the Islamic calendar next. Narcissistic egomaniacs

I don't see that happening. All calendars have faults but at least every other calendar since the dawn of history has had a year that's actually (very close to) a year long. The Muslim "year" is off by about 11 days. (The exact figure depends on when an imam sees the moon.)

Mecca as the centre of the world and a clock that runs backwards, that sums up Islam pretty well.

Other Comments by funkyderek

19. Comment #165200 by al-rawandi on April 21, 2008 at 7:49 am

For anyone interested,

Here is another bit of Muslim stupidity.

There is a Muslim "doctrine" (read: bull shit myth) that states that Mecca is constantly circled by a group of angels. These angels are supposed to protect the Ka'aba itself from any physical harm.

However the rock itself has been hit by canon fire at least once before. Perhaps the angels had the day off.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

20. Comment #165202 by huzonfurst on April 21, 2008 at 7:52 am

Another part of Quranic science is the denial of evolution, of course.

Other Comments by huzonfurst

21. Comment #165203 by black wolf on April 21, 2008 at 7:52 am

Islamic science also believes that mountains are set on top of the Earth's surface to stabilize it, that one fly wing carries disease and the other the cure, that Allah holds up the birds, that the moon emanates it's own light, that Earth is flat, and so on and on.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/index.htm

Other Comments by black wolf

22. Comment #165204 by hungarianelephant on April 21, 2008 at 7:54 am

Where did you hear about the sperm and spine deal?

I ... er ... read it on the internet.

Can't remember the source now, except that it was from someone I'd usually find reliable. It was in the context of some loony claiming that the existence of stem cells in the spine "proved" that Mo was right all along.

I haven't yet actually raised the energy to read the Quran.

Other Comments by hungarianelephant

23. Comment #165206 by EvidenceOnly on April 21, 2008 at 7:58 am

How long will it take for:

1. A counter announcement from the IDiots, supported by the usual fake science from Behe and Demski, that the Christian world should use the address of the Discovery Institute in Seattle as its reference point for time zones.

2. A new Ben Stein movie that claims that Darwin is responsible for the current use of Greenwich with details of numerous scientists who have lost their jobs for proposing research to prove that Seattle is the Jesus point and not Greenwich.

3. Bush to declare a new "war on timezones" and invade Greenwich.

Nutcases.

Other Comments by EvidenceOnly

24. Comment #165214 by MrPickwick on April 21, 2008 at 8:24 am

I don't see that happening. All calendars have faults but at least every other calendar since the dawn of history has had a year that's actually (very close to) a year long. The Muslim "year" is off by about 11 days. (The exact figure depends on when an imam sees the moon.)

So what? That's no problem for believers. Allah waves his magic wand and the trick is done!

Other Comments by MrPickwick

25. Comment #165215 by Raigen on April 21, 2008 at 8:25 am

Hey, let's not all forget the fact that Muslim Science proved that Mohammed split the Moon in two because astronomers found a faultline that is millions of years old on the Moon's surface.

Had a nice chat with a Muslim coworker about that on Friday.

Other Comments by Raigen

26. Comment #165218 by Barry Pearson on April 21, 2008 at 8:27 am

I just watched this: just 3 minutes 36 seconds. Mind-boggling crackpot assertions!

"Science in Islam: Mecca Time Must Replace Greenwich MT!"
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_N7t19hfeSE

This isn't just a one-off - there appears to be lots more like this!

Other Comments by Barry Pearson

27. Comment #165222 by irate_atheist on April 21, 2008 at 8:29 am

5. Comment #165182 by hungarianelephant -

One more word. Irate, if you please ...

Oh, elephant, I can't restrain myself at one word.

What a bunch of know-nothing, wilfully ignorant, mentally deficient, cuntbone-headed fucktards.

And even worse than that, I find myself agreeing with Henri. Any knob-jockey that can make me do that, deserves their place in the all-stars gallery of self-irrigating colon-carriers.

Other Comments by irate_atheist

28. Comment #165224 by Peacebeuponme on April 21, 2008 at 8:30 am

"Mecca was located in the centre of our planet, but nevertheless we will go on our research to establish it as a truth"

That just about sums up the religious mindset.

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme

29. Comment #165226 by AdrianB on April 21, 2008 at 8:31 am

Aren't they just like a herd of deluded football fans singing?

"Oh, it's Mecca City, Mecca City is great. It's by far the best city, the world has ever seen ....etc"

Other Comments by AdrianB

30. Comment #165230 by Geoff on April 21, 2008 at 8:37 am

It would be nice to get away from that irritating AD/BC dating though.

I think we should lobby for a change to AD and BD, so we're now in the year 199 AD.

Can't see that anyone could complain about that...

Other Comments by Geoff

31. Comment #165232 by al-rawandi on April 21, 2008 at 8:38 am

Raigen,

Ahhh yes the splitting of the moon.

This is really the best ammunition againts Christians who claim miracles as evidence for Jesus' divinity. I simply say, "Well lots of people watched Muhammad split the moon, how come you aren't a Muslim." I let them try to discredit one miracle while still accepting another. Quite amusing.

In response to your co-worker, point to the crack in your ass, and claim a miracle.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

32. Comment #165245 by bertie wooster on April 21, 2008 at 8:56 am

"it runs anti-clockwise". Interesting to note how the irony of clocks running backwards has escaped them.

That said, how soon before the loony left in the UK, led by Galloway and his rabble, propose to agree with this to pacify "muslim feelings" or whatever?

Other Comments by bertie wooster

33. Comment #165253 by Peacebeuponme on April 21, 2008 at 9:07 am

We should all use the Turkmen days of the week as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saparmurat_Niyazov#New_names_for_months_and_days

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme

34. Comment #165257 by Prankster on April 21, 2008 at 9:11 am

"Oh Great" he says sarcastically

Do these titheads have nothing better to do?

Not only do you now have to set your watch 2 to 3 hours ahead when visiting the middle east from the UK you now have to set it back about 14 centuries as well?

Fuckin' idiots......!

Other Comments by Prankster

35. Comment #165258 by Szkeptik on April 21, 2008 at 9:12 am

"In a clear support for the call, Islamic scholar Yousuf al-Qaradawi said Islam, "unlike other religions, never contradicted science"."

Yousuf al-Qaradawi is eighter an ignorant fool or a liar or both.

"They also called the Arab governments to abandon the new world maps "because they are forged to serve Western interests." "

Obvious nonsense.

"She hoped that an Islamic country would adopt the project to strengthen the belief that Mecca was the core of the world, not theoretically but practically."

Clearly does not know what "core" means or what the shape of the Earth is.

Stupidity has trumped reason yet again. Well, what do you expect from the part of the world where nothing beneficial has come in over 1000 years?

Other Comments by Szkeptik

36. Comment #165259 by hungarianelephant on April 21, 2008 at 9:12 am

This stuff with the imam and the moon is decidedly odd.

A few years ago I was in Manchester around Ramadan, which was in November. As everyone who has lived there knows, it's pretty difficult to assess when sunrise and sunset are during a Mancunian November. There's a sort of transition from dark grey-orange murk to light grey-orange murk. Some days you don't even really get that, and it's a proper Lights On At Lunchtime day.

So, I wondered to a Muslim colleague, which do you go on?

Er, you have an idea when it is supposed to be and go on that.

But surely the point of the end of Ramadan is the observation of the crescent moon by one bloke with a beard?

Yes, but that's in Mecca or Medina (I forget which). And they tell us.

(Elephant's brain starts to hurt.)

How did they tell you in the days when it took 3 months to travel from Medina? And why, if you base the start and end of what happens in Medina, would you base your routine on the days in between on what happens in Manchester?

There was an awkward silence, followed by a discussion of United's prospects the next Saturday.

Most of my conversations with theists seem to go much the same way. Maybe it's me.

Other Comments by hungarianelephant

37. Comment #165260 by Steven Mading on April 21, 2008 at 9:15 am

j.mills said:To be fair, there is the old complaint that world maps typically plonk Europe in the middle - not only horizontally, but vertically, since the commonplace Mercator's Projection can't show the poles and usually cuts off more south than north (who cares about Antarctica?).

This ignores the fact that there is very good practical reason for putting Europe in the middle - it means the left and right edges where the map splits the world occur through the middle of the pacific ocean instead of through populated landmasses.
And all flat projections will be misleading. The only way to get the right picture is with a globe.

Other Comments by Steven Mading

38. Comment #165265 by al-rawandi on April 21, 2008 at 9:21 am

Elephant,

Do you know who else claimed Islam never contradicted science?

Abdullah Bin Baz, the blind grant Mufti of Saudi Arabia. He fervently maintained the earth was flat, and that the moon landing was a Zionist conspiracy. In that case, Islam was perfectly in line with his science.

Also Yousuf al-Qaradawi also gave a fatwa saying that suicide bombings are permissible in Islam.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

39. Comment #165268 by Vaal on April 21, 2008 at 9:22 am

If God had a sense of humour, he would aim an asteroid at Mecca.

He would then sit back to see the debates of "it was God's will" and "It was because we have sinned", and have a chuckle...

Other Comments by Vaal

40. Comment #165277 by al-rawandi on April 21, 2008 at 9:33 am

Vaal,

This already happened. Allah promised to protect the Ka'aba in Mecca against any physical harm, by having angels circle the rock. Well the rock was hit with cannon fire (the Ottomans I think). The Muslims just tend to ignore these kinds of things.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

41. Comment #165286 by Barry Pearson on April 21, 2008 at 9:48 am

huzonfurst: Another part of Quranic science is the denial of evolution, of course.

Not always. But I agree that this is often the view, and in a (UK) Channel 4 TV program perhaps last year, about half of the young muslims in the audience didn't accept evolution.

Look on the bright side! Here is a sustained attack on Intelligent Design:

"The "Intelligent Design" Distraction":
http://www.harunyahya.com/new_releases/news/intelligent_design.php

Some headings:

Who Else, Apart from Allah, Could Expressions Like "Intelligent Design" and "An Intelligent Power" Refer To?

Allah Does Not Need to Make a Design in Order to Create

"Intelligent Design" Accounts Could Harm Individuals Sincerely Inclined toward Religion

"Intelligent Design" Is Another of Satan's Distractions

Some statements:

Even children at primary school know that it is Allah, and not "intelligent design," Who created the sky, gazelles, fish, lambs, apples, bananas, grapes and oranges.

To put forward any claim of "intelligent design," while ignoring the existence of Allah (He is surely beyond that) is exceedingly irrational and illogical. After a moment's reflection, anyone of normal intelligence and possessed of a conscience will understand that if the perfection in the universe appears to have been designed, then the Creator of that perfection can be none other than Allah.

Here is the complete explanation for everything:

Qur'an, 36:82: His command when He desires a thing is just to say to it, "Be!" and it is.

Qur'an, 2:117: [He is] the Originator of the heavens and Earth. When He decides on something, He just says to it, "Be!" and it is.

These are accurate quotations from the Koran, so they must be true!

Other Comments by Barry Pearson

42. Comment #165290 by jaf on April 21, 2008 at 9:50 am

Saat Makkah (the watch of Mecca). . . runs anti-clockwise in the direction of Tawaf, the rotation around Kaaba.

Really? I've had one of those for about eight years. You can still get them at-
http://www.boystoys.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=753
and a couple of hundred other places.

Other Comments by jaf

43. Comment #165295 by nunquam on April 21, 2008 at 9:59 am

By the time they've settled this argument about Mecca-as-center-of-the-world, we'll all be speaking about it in Chinese.

Other Comments by nunquam

44. Comment #165319 by al-rawandi on April 21, 2008 at 10:34 am

Barry Pearson,

Do you know what one Harun Yahya's (his real name is Adnan Oktar) wrote in 1996?

Soykirim Yalani... "The Holocaust Lie"

He claims the Holocaust was actually about 100,000 deaths due to Typhoid Fever. Bah.

In 1986 he wrote a book entitled "Judaism and Freemasonry"

He espouses the usual Muslim nonsense about Jews conspiring in the dark tunnels of some western masonic lodge to disenfranchise Muslims. And the solution, of course, is to make the Muslim world more like 7th Century Arabia, and all will be well.

The guy is not only a moron, but a bigot too.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

45. Comment #165328 by Shep on April 21, 2008 at 10:52 am

Islam, "unlike other religions, never contradicted science"...

Angels, Heaven, Hell, God...

my understanding of science must be more backwards than i thought (note. sarcasm)

Other Comments by Shep

46. Comment #165333 by thewhitepearl on April 21, 2008 at 11:00 am

"reigniting an old controversy that started some four decades ago"

just...let...it...gooo.

it really is pointless and ridiculously petty.

Other Comments by thewhitepearl

47. Comment #165341 by Spinoza on April 21, 2008 at 11:15 am

whitepearl, pointless and petty?... you don't know the HALF of it!

Pokemon fatwa

In 2001, Saudi Arabia banned the game of Pokemon as a Zionist plot; Qaradawi issued a fatwa endorsing this in December 2003, saying that Pokemon not only uses Jewish and Masonic symbols, but teaches evolution. Not only do Pokemon evolve, they do so "in battles where the survivors are those who adapt better to the environment; another of Darwin's dogmas." In addition, both depiction of imaginary animals and card-games are contrary to the Koran. Qaradawi also notes that some Japanese expressions squeaked and gibbered by Pokemon may mean "I am a Jew" and "Become a Jew," but admits the matter is controversial and he isn't certain.[35]

LMFAO.

Other Comments by Spinoza

48. Comment #165346 by Raiko on April 21, 2008 at 11:29 am

Why don't we put it right through Rome? As a Pastafarian, I'd appreciate that one!

Other Comments by Raiko

49. Comment #165353 by Divineosaur on April 21, 2008 at 11:38 am

Yeah, good luck with this. Time zones being the worlds leading problem and all.

Other Comments by Divineosaur

50. Comment #165354 by Barry Pearson on April 21, 2008 at 11:38 am

al-rawandi: The guy is not only a moron, but a bigot too.

Bigot, yes. Moron ... I can't decide.

How can we know whether someone is ignorant or lying? At first, ignorance may be a possibility, but after sufficient repeats, we are entitled to assume that it has become lying. (cf. Michael Behe in the Dover courtroom).

Have you read the Atlas of Creation? It is a mind-bogglingly polished production, and far beyond the capability of a moron. It is over 800 pages long, with detailed discussions such as:

In truth, however, the results of molecular comparisons do not work in favour of the theory of evolution at all. There are huge molecular differences between creatures that appear to be very similar and related. For instance, the cytochrome-C protein, one of the proteins vital to respiration, is incredibly different in living beings of the same class. According to research carried out on this matter, the difference between two different reptile species is greater than the difference between a bird and a fish or a fish and a mammal. Another study has shown that molecular differences between some birds are greater than the differences between those same birds and mammals. It has also been discovered that the molecular difference between bacteria that appear to be very similar is greater than the difference between mammals and amphibians or insects. Similar comparisons have been made in the cases of haemoglobin, myoglobin, hormones, and genes and similar conclusions are drawn.

There are detailed references that make it clear he (or people supplying him) IS aware of many scientific papers, and has at least skim-read them. He must therefore be lying about many of the implications, not just be ignorant. He must KNOW from this reading that scientists are not deserting the science of evolution, as he states.

I can't get inside his head (or, as Eugenie Scott might say, his heart) to know how much he actually knows and so where he is lying for Allah. I THINK he has missed the point of common descent, and so places expected transitional fossils "between" modern species (he gives the example of crocodiles & squirrels!) rather than near common ancestors. But perhaps he has deliberately created a strawman version of evolution so that he can convince readers that he has demolished evolution. And it would be hard for anyone without some literacy in evolution to see where his claims are wrong. (I had to spend quite a bit of time re-reading parts of "The Ancestor's Tale" to spot where some of his claims were false).

He may be an intelligent man (or more likely a group of people) telling a "big lie", and not be a moron. It is certainly clever propoganda, and it makes the connection between "Darwinism" and the Nazis, of course.

Other Comments by Barry Pearson