Wednesday, April 23, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version

Judge orders La. school district to stop Bible giveaways

by AP

Thanks to Jon Huff for the link.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iCCv6us19S3KwMmn4TE5U-cj9zUQD907BA5O0

Judge orders La. school district to stop Bible giveaways

By JANET McCONNAUGHEY

NEW ORLEANS (AP) — A federal judge ordered a public school system to stop allowing in-school Bible giveaways, saying the practice violates the First Amendment separation of church and state.

"Distribution of Bibles is a religious activity without a secular purpose" and amounts to school board promotion of Christianity, U.S. District Judge Carl J. Barbier ruled in a case brought by the American Civil Liberties Union of Louisiana against the Tangipahoa Parish School Board.

As requested by both sides, Barbier made a summary judgment based only on the written briefs — something judges may do only if the law is absolutely clear.

Defense attorney Christopher M. Moody said late Tuesday that the school board decided to appeal the ruling to the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeal.

"We think our chances on appeal are very good," he said.

The ACLU filed the lawsuit for an anonymous family whose daughter said she felt pressured into taking a Bible even though she doesn't believe in God. The girl was called Jane Roe and her father John Roe out of fear of retaliation by schoolmates and neighbors, the ACLU has said.

Jane Roe was a fifth-grader at Loranger Middle School when The Gideons International visited on May 9, 2007. Principal Andre Pellerin notified fifth-grade teachers that the group would be on campus all day, giving away Bibles outside his office. His e-mail said, "Please stress to students that they DO NOT have to get a bible," according to Barbier.

However, the judge wrote, even procedures upheld as neutral for secondary school students might be out of bounds for "an impressionable young elementary-age child."

He cited a ruling that upheld a West Virginia county's system of putting both religious and nonreligious material on a secondary school table where school students could walk past it. Grade-school children might not understand that the school board was not endorsing any of the materials, the 4th Circuit Court of Appeal said in that case.

At Loranger, the table outside the principal's office also created the impression that the school was endorsing Christianity, Barbier wrote.

Moody said the school board was working on a policy along the lines of the one cited by Barbier, but it was still being developed. But, he said, the board believes the current policy is legal.

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1. Comment #166599 by 82abhilash on April 23, 2008 at 10:29 am

wtf? Why can't these people give away their free bibles to those who come looking for it? In a church, perhaps. Or a religious retreat. It is as if they can't get any sleep, unless they disturb or intimidate someone else.

Other Comments by 82abhilash

2. Comment #166604 by Border Collie on April 23, 2008 at 10:38 am

It's truly sad that they have to fear retaliation ... well, it is Louisiana afterall, where the crayfish mafia holds sway ...

Other Comments by Border Collie

3. Comment #166606 by Opisthokont on April 23, 2008 at 10:39 am

Two quick reactions:

First, I would like to know under what pretense the principal and his allies think they have "very good" chances of appealing this. I do not get the sense that there is information missing from this account.

Second, I would like to emphasise that the plaintiffs in this case wish to remain anonymous "out of fear of retaliation by schoolmates and neighbors". Atheism still has a long way to go before it is anywhere near the threat that the fundamentalists think it to be!

Other Comments by Opisthokont

4. Comment #166610 by rod-the-farmer on April 23, 2008 at 10:41 am

Imagine the fuss if the local mosque dropped by with a box of Korans, "which the students do NOT have to take", although they are outside the principals office. Or maybe we should ask a local chapter of the Atheist Church to drop off free copies of something affordable....maybe we could ask Readers Digest to do a Condensed Books version of The God Delusion. You didn't know there was a local chapter ? Not to worry, any motivated individual will do.

Other Comments by rod-the-farmer

5. Comment #166652 by Azven on April 23, 2008 at 11:15 am

The first bible I ever owned was given to me by my school. It was for my Religious Knowledge (sometimes referred to as 'RE') lessons and was therefore a school book. I was, however, educated in the UK.

One gets the impression that US schools do not learn about religion(s) as a subject. Is this true?

Other Comments by Azven

6. Comment #166661 by mtnmann on April 23, 2008 at 11:20 am

I wonder if this is related to the Wedge Strategy. Are they trying to overwhelm the legal system by creating these kinds of cases all over the U.S.? My thought is that if there are enough of these, the Fed might actually start handing out fines under the next administration... We'll see.

Other Comments by mtnmann

7. Comment #166664 by Nentuaby on April 23, 2008 at 11:22 am

Avzen:

Barring an elective Comparative Religion course at the secondary level (which would be rare), you're absolutely correct. US public schools do not have classes on religion; at most, there would be a unit in a general Social Studies course. Actually giving out copies of any one religion's scripture would never be a part of that unit (barring a rogue principle) as, even in the context of a view-point-neutral course, it would just skirt too close to the prohibition against Establishment.

Other Comments by Nentuaby

8. Comment #166679 by PacificWind on April 23, 2008 at 11:29 am

Having grown up in an adjacent school district, this story doesn't surprise me one bit. This type of thing is quite common in the area - for instance, my high school principal once ordered the ten commandments be posted in all classrooms (although they were taken down after a few weeks due to complaints). It's good to see that someone is finally challenging the school board's ridiculously pro-Christian policies.

btw - in La. it would technically be the "crawfish mafia"

Other Comments by PacificWind

9. Comment #166680 by Celandine on April 23, 2008 at 11:30 am

Azven,

That is correct. I attended public schools in two different states (plus two years of a church school in between) and in the public schools we were never taught about religion as a subject. I learned some about mythology, primarily Greek and Roman mythology; in my high school English class one year we read some extracts from the Bible as literature; and there was mention in passing of other non-Christian religions in some social studies classes like history or world cultures, but that was it.

Other Comments by Celandine

10. Comment #166696 by alexmzk on April 23, 2008 at 11:39 am

i dunno about this. as an educational institute, it's generally a positive thing to be distributing free literature to kids. the Bible is certainly an interesting read and the Gideon society was definitely a strong influence in my deconversion at high-school.
of course i was at school in the UK, so the Gideons were free to tell us all of the bad-ass stuff that Jesus would do for us, so we were well within our capability to see their bizarre claims fall flat before our very eyes. truly enlightening.

Other Comments by alexmzk

11. Comment #166700 by terradea on April 23, 2008 at 11:40 am

In my North Webster, Indiana public elementary school in 1969, Mrs. Peebles forced us to say the Lord's Prayer everyday after the Pledge of Allegiance. She even had a lesson on the meaning of each word of the prayer. We were in the fourth grade, and completely unaware that we had a choice in the matter of saying the prayer. In fact, we were intimidated as hell!

Too bad she didn't understand that Jesus didn't hunt down his audiences, nor did he force those who weren't interested in hearing his sermons. Jesus expected his audience to come to him, on hilltops, etc., away from the masses, and he instructed his followers to pray in closets, in private. Far cry from Christianists today.

Average Christians today do and preach exactly what Jesus did not. For example, about you rich folks, and helping the poor ...

Other Comments by terradea

12. Comment #166717 by Azven on April 23, 2008 at 11:49 am

Thanks, Nentuaby and Celandine.

It's seems a shame that American children in public schools can only learn about religion in church, and therefore are unlikely to get an objective view. They are also unlikely to get a range of views. By the time I was 13 I had learnt about Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Shinto, Hinduism, Sikhism, Jainism...

There was no attempt to convert me, and no one religion was made out to be inferior (or superior) to any of the others.

As far as I know this was the standard London Board syllabus.

Other Comments by Azven

13. Comment #166736 by rthille on April 23, 2008 at 12:01 pm

My daughter learned a little about the Protestant split in world history in high school here in CA. She says she doesn't believe in god, but @ 16, I don't think she's though about it really that much. As for the teacher, I get the feeling from talking with him that he's probably a non-theist, but not sure.

Other Comments by rthille

14. Comment #166749 by movingshadow on April 23, 2008 at 12:09 pm

the superficial association with row v wade might stir up the fundy hives

Other Comments by movingshadow

15. Comment #166757 by black wolf on April 23, 2008 at 12:11 pm

Good to see that (almost) all courts still respect the Constitution in spite of the constant pressure and activism from the thumping vocal 'minority'. All it takes are a few courageous families to speak up. It's sad that people need to be constantly reminded in court to respect their own Constitution, month by month.

Other Comments by black wolf

16. Comment #166772 by D'Arcy on April 23, 2008 at 12:24 pm

If I was a school kid in Louisiana, I would take the free Bible and bugger off. When I was a student, I was given a free modern version of the New Testament, which I still have.

If US school kids are scared of accepting free stuff which they may or may not disagree with, then it doesn't say much for their "freedom of speech".
I know the Christians can be, and are, bullying in their attitude, but school kids are also quite reslient in their own way.

Other Comments by D'Arcy

17. Comment #166781 by Raiko on April 23, 2008 at 12:27 pm

I am baffled at the confidence with which they wish to appeal. ... The First Amendment is breathtakingly clear. Faith really blinds people.

Other Comments by Raiko

18. Comment #166785 by gr8hands on April 23, 2008 at 12:30 pm

Not only did the Gideons pass out bibles in my 5th grade class, but the teacher spent the remainder of the day reading to us from it, answering our questions, and presenting the gospel.

Now, I loved that teacher, and continue to hold him as one of the best that I ever had -- but this was not his finest day.

This needs to stop.

Other Comments by gr8hands

19. Comment #166833 by Kricket on April 23, 2008 at 12:54 pm

When I was in 6th grade my public-school teacher decided to teach us about Moses and how he led the Jews out of Egypt for our "History" lesson.

He even started out by saying something along the lines of "I'm not teaching religion because that's against the rules, but this all really happened, so it's just a history lesson."

Later, questions about Moses appeared on our History quizzes.

So it came as a bit of a shock to me later in life to read there's no physical evidence of Moses ever existing.

If I knew then what I know now I would have reported him for this (and a few other things) But when you're a kid you just assume Teacher is always right and you should believe what they say.

Other Comments by Kricket

20. Comment #166837 by logicalbasedreality on April 23, 2008 at 12:58 pm

i am a deep south USA kid growing up and still live there today, although I have moved to a more liberal coastal city, ( still deep in the Bible belt though). Anyway, my public elementary shcool had a weekly "Bible Day" where all the kids were herded into the cafeteria to listen to the good stories of the bible. Of course none of the wars, genocides, and contradictions were told about, just the mind trapping stuff a 4th grader can wrap their heads around. Disobey and go to hell, 10 commandments, noah, Judah selling Jesus out. Of course we were not presented with any other types of beliefs, just good old protestant ignorance.

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21. Comment #166843 by Agathodemon on April 23, 2008 at 1:00 pm

Actually, I went to HS in LA during the '60s, and World Religions was a part of my Freshman World Civ class. It was my first exposure to Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. Apparently, that is no longer the case. This was the perfect non-confrontive exposure to the creeds of the world. Too bad we don't still do this.

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22. Comment #166850 by Anthro on April 23, 2008 at 1:03 pm

In New York State public schools the only exposure to religious information (1960s and 70s) was via history classes - world history, basic and bland. As a senior I took the "Bible as LITERATURE" English elective. We used it as the basis for examining the influence it had on European literature over the centuries. No thumping or sermonizing - as Dan Dennett would say - just the facts.
I remember the Catholic kids leaving school during the day and walking to a nearby building to receive catholic education classes, and then returning to public school.

At the same time my father, a science teacher, was on the state board of science curriculum, updating the curriculum content as new knowledge of scientific discoveries became established/mainstream/substantiated - like geologic plate tectonics (he still thinks it is one of the greatest "discoveries" of the second half of the 20th century).

There was never a hue or cry for Bibles, religious tracts, or praying to be part of the public education experience. Everyone, who wanted to, received that in the home and at church.

As a member of the ACLU let me know where to send money to the defense fund.

Anthro
"I can smell science!"

Other Comments by Anthro

23. Comment #166853 by sidfaiwu on April 23, 2008 at 1:05 pm

82abhilash: "It is as if they can't get any sleep, unless they disturb or intimidate someone else."

Given their warped perception of reality, it's not that incredible to think that they might. They honestly believe that they might have prevented the eternal suffering of someone by passing out Bibles then they may feel guilt for not doing so.

Other Comments by sidfaiwu

24. Comment #166885 by Adam Morrison on April 23, 2008 at 1:26 pm

I got my first bible from my Junior High School (Roman Catholic). I proceeded to read the whole thing and about a month later it happened to transform into a pile of ashes in my trash bin.

About a week later I openly and viciously blasphemed during morning prayer and was promptly sent to the office. Coincidence? I think not.

(But this story makes me just want to dance around singing 'LLEEEEEETTTT the Sun shine! Let the sun shine in. The suuuuuunnnnnnn shine innnnnn'

Other Comments by Adam Morrison

25. Comment #166921 by mikecbraun on April 23, 2008 at 1:42 pm

You know what's coming next....
The group that was handing out the Bibles is going to complain that they are victims, much like Ben Stein and his minions. Someone is suppressing their right to free speech, free assembly, etc. Christians are good at playing the victim. Many have persecution complexes. Maybe that's why they worship a guy who took it upon himself to shoulder their burden, or "die for their sins," and was later nailed to a piece of wood. Talk about melodrama. I think they want the same sort of thing to happen to them, just so they can point out what martyrs they are.

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26. Comment #167125 by quill on April 23, 2008 at 4:33 pm

Azven,

In my public school (in Illinois) we went over various religions during the course of our "world history" classes, but you are correct, religion itself cannot be a subject in American public school currculae because our government is supposed to be entirely secular and even discussing religion under the pretense of objectivity opens the door to religious indoctrination.

This is one case in which our church-state separation might actually be counterproductive to the goal of spreading atheism, but for my part I would not change the law, as I think it prevents more problems than it creates.

Besides, an hour spent on a comparative religion class is an hour not spent on science.

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27. Comment #167141 by Aquaria on April 23, 2008 at 4:55 pm

No, public schools in America do not teach religion, except as elective courses. We don't dare. It would start a holy war in every town if a Methodist was teaching a religion class to a Baptist. And it would be genocide all around if an American Baptist was teaching a religion class to a Southern Baptist.

I keed, I keed... But anyone who knows the ins and outs of Protestant interfaith rivalry, especially in the Deep South, would know any of that is a possibility.

However, not teaching religion doesn't mean it's not communicated to us, in thousands of ways, because it is.

It's funny, but I didn't get much more religion exposure at a parochial (Lutheran) school than I did at public. At least there was some consistency and organization with the exposure to religion at the Lutheran school.

The Gideons weren't welcome at that school, by the way. For one thing, the Bible was on our school supply list at the beginning of the year. Of course we had to have one to attend school there. The other thing was plain old interfaith rivalry. The Gideons weren't Lutherans, so get the hell out.

My younger brother had some fun with the Gideons when they were passing out NTs with Psalms and Proverbs to his class at another school we attended. He said that his sister (me) was in danger of losing her soul to Satan, she was starting to reject the Word. All he wanted to do was see if they'd believe him and give him another copy. Of course both happened. In fact, he got the two NTs, PLUS two full bibles. He came home laughing his ass off.

Our atheist dad was delighted to have a bible he could underline and make notes in at last; the only one we still had in the house by then was a white leather bible that an aunt gave me for my birthday when I attended the Lutheran school. I didn't value it because it was a bible, but because it was both a gift and actually a very beautiful book.

I kept the NT the kid brother finagled from the Gideons for a lot of years, simply because it was a pocket sized book with a kelly green cover with gold lettering. Plus, it seemed to represent what Christianity seemed to be, at least to me: Cheap, garish and ridiculous.

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28. Comment #167167 by Azven on April 23, 2008 at 5:22 pm

Aquaria

You said, "However, not teaching religion doesn't mean it's not communicated to us, in thousands of ways, because it is".

But is it communicated in an unbiased way, or at least by people with no motive other than to teach?

Do they teach about religion or do they just preach?

And, when you say religion, do you mean Christianity?

Other Comments by Azven

29. Comment #167168 by Damien White on April 23, 2008 at 5:22 pm

Good old Gideons. I'm gonna catch me one soon, just like Bill Hicks did: ring up the motel front desk and complain that you don't have a bible in your room, then wait behind the door with a big net...

Whenever I stay in a hotel/motel I always take the time to write out a little statement pointing out the major plot-holes in the bible on the hotel stationery, then pop it inside the Gideon's bible as a bookmark.

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30. Comment #167221 by Grantaire of JC on April 23, 2008 at 6:17 pm

I love what the email said that it should be stressed that the students did not have to take a bible (wink wink). The peer pressure alone in not taking a bible probably would have been worse. Pandering is what this called. Shame on the school as well as the givers of the bible.
If the decision gets reversed can I go down there and distribute the opposite materials? Will we get equal time and opportunity so that there would be no discrimination?

Other Comments by Grantaire of JC

31. Comment #167233 by Double Bass Atheist on April 23, 2008 at 6:34 pm

I cannot understand why they even started bible giveaways in the first place, let alone their chances on appeal. Public schools here in the US simply cannot do this.

Other Comments by Double Bass Atheist

32. Comment #167237 by SharonMcT on April 23, 2008 at 6:45 pm

They are still doing it here in public school in Alberta as well. The son of a friend was in 5th grade last year. The gideon people were allowed to pass out NTs in the classroom. I was amazed that this still goes on.

The good news is that out of a class of about 20, at least 7 kids would not take the thing and they have felt no repercussions.

I remember being given one and it never occurred to me to not accept it. So it sounds like progress is being made in some small way. But I do wonder why they are still allowed into the public schools.

Other Comments by SharonMcT

33. Comment #167248 by TuftedPuffin on April 23, 2008 at 7:17 pm

The posters on here are correct that US public schools rarely teach Comparative Religions, and if they do usually do so as an elective. However I would like to point out that they don't tend to teach Philosophy either. There are a lot of academic subjects that schools don't teach just because they don't have the time.

Me, I was in a weird International High School program, so I ended up having a mandatory Comparative Religions class called Values and Beliefs. My verdict: someone who loves religion enough to teach about it is not going to be an unbiased observer. Just because they have to teach about, and thus love, all religions, doesn't make them less biased.

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34. Comment #167250 by dragonfirematrix on April 23, 2008 at 7:18 pm

This bible thing is ridiculous.

The only way we are going stop the Christians from trying to force their bible on schools and school children is simple. Other religions, without permission, should start handing out their religious book to children. Lets find out how long the Christians will like it. Not long to be sure. Maybe two minutes, tops, before all hell about the persecution of Christians breaks loose.

Do not get me wrong. I believe in the separation of church and state. I also pride myself in trying to be tolerant. However, tolerance is not working. We should remove religion from public life. Religion should be required a private thing, since there really are no gods in the first place.

The time for tolerance of religion has expired. I know intolerance is not the right thing, but I think it is inappropriate to show tolerances for those who teach intolerance.

Other Comments by dragonfirematrix

35. Comment #167282 by HappyPrimate on April 23, 2008 at 8:14 pm

There is a House bill waiting to go to the state Senate in Louisiana (where I live) which will allow public schools to teach ID. I am happy to see another ACLU member posting. I have contacted the entire Education Committee about the bill. Louisiana is mired in evangelicals and catholics and they are pushing very hard to put religion of the xian kind in public schools. Allowing the Gideons on a public school campus is too typical. I suffered a measure of fear for putting a Darwin fish sticker on my car. I am now getting up the nerve to put an RD sticker on there too. These people would think nothing of property damage for their religion. I still hold out hope however and I do agree that actually reading the bible from cover to cover is the best way to understand how silly the whole thing is.

Other Comments by HappyPrimate

36. Comment #167287 by mordacious1 on April 23, 2008 at 8:54 pm

Oh, I heard it was a move by the school district to save on TP.

Other Comments by mordacious1

37. Comment #167292 by Christopher Davis on April 23, 2008 at 9:02 pm

HappyPrimate,

I can empathize with you. I'm moving back to Alabama next year and there is no way in hell I would be able to put a "Darwin fish" or anything like it on my car unless I wanted it "keyed" or otherwise vandalized.

Of course if I thought I could actually catch the "holier than thou" fuckers in the act, I'd do it just so I could taunt them with "Where is your God now?" while I beat their ass.

Other Comments by Christopher Davis

38. Comment #167312 by moderndaythomas on April 23, 2008 at 10:00 pm

The city of Vancouver is rather diverse in its ethnicity, so the idea of passing the Bible around the class would be stopped immediately.

Though it should be said that this is not because of a more enlightened take on the origin of life, but rather the replacing of the one with the other.

Other Comments by moderndaythomas

39. Comment #167315 by moderndaythomas on April 23, 2008 at 10:10 pm

Speaking of how silly the Bible is, I have more than I care to have of the thing, and It never fails to surprise.

ON the occasion that I partake in a sermine, I find myself sitting behind a typical silver haired church lady of the third degree.

She speeks of how satan has control of you if you have more than one drink in an evening. Not one for heavy drinking this is of no concern other than there is a person ten inches in front of me that's insane.

Little does she know that satan has control of me and all I want to do is strangle her! Just kidding, it's not satan, it's me all the way.

Other Comments by moderndaythomas

40. Comment #167351 by Mitchell Gilks on April 23, 2008 at 11:31 pm

I remember getting a little red bible in grade 4. I had forgotten all about that. This brings back memories. It was two old men that had them, they came right into the class and gave everyone one. I wasn't asked, it was plopped on my desk.

I wonder where that went.

Other Comments by Mitchell Gilks

41. Comment #167357 by esuther on April 24, 2008 at 12:15 am

I got a little white "wedding bible" as a prize for perfect sunday school attendance. Didn't seem to have the desired effect though. Never wedded (lesbian here) and dumped religion altogether round about the end of junior high school.
I still have the bible forty years later -- filled with yellow marker underlines. It comes in handy for picking out great quotes for my atheist fiction. As RD points out, it is part of the cultural vocabulary.
While I of course find the idea of handing out bibles in a public school objectionable, I suspect precious few school kids actually sit down in their free time and read them - not when there's other cool stuff to do.

Other Comments by esuther

42. Comment #167364 by PJG on April 24, 2008 at 12:52 am

I still have the Bible I was given at school for R.E. (Religious Education). I find it useful for tormenting Jehovah's Witnesses. They often don't know as much about what they are supposed to believe as I do and thanks to that book and all the tabs and references I have written in it, I am able to inform them of this!

The book also makes a good door-stop.

[sarcasm]I don't think there is any problem giving out copies of The Bible in schools - so long as The Qu'ran and other works of fiction are handed out too. [/sarcasm]

Personally, I think a really good book of famous quotations (which includes some good quotes from scripture anyway) or a Thesaurus would be better - or The Complete Works of Shakespeare.

Other Comments by PJG

43. Comment #167366 by Sargeist on April 24, 2008 at 1:02 am

I'm with Avzen on this one. I appreciate that there is limited time in the school year to teach *everything* one might want to, but religion is such a prevalent thing that it seems odd to me that people can't be taught about it.

Is it perhaps the gung ho attitudes of the religious in the USA that would make it unworkable? By this I mean that a more secular environment might find it more straightforward to discuss a variety of topics without having to sneeze the word "bullshit!" every time a religion other than Christianity, say, was mentioned.

Other Comments by Sargeist

44. Comment #167371 by AdrianB on April 24, 2008 at 1:09 am

Every week, at my school in the UK, I would go (through choice I'm ashamed to say, or was it?) to Bible Studies evening class. I would be about 15/16 at the time.

We would read passages from the Bible, sing songs, eat some bread and cheese, and even (naughty) have a glass of red wine.

Each week we would sing along to "Read the Bible, the words inside are true and reliable .... etc," with the assistant school chaplain on guitar. I can still hear the song in my head now, was the popularity of that song.

The thing is, even though we were in Bible Study classes, singing that song, we actually never ever read the Bible. Not properly anyway, it was always just the same old warm fluffy passages.

It wasn't until I left school that I did actually read the book cover to cover. I would have been about 18 at the time, and that was the beginning of the end for my believing days.

Other Comments by AdrianB

45. Comment #167449 by Adam Morrison on April 24, 2008 at 4:10 am

SharonMcT:

I went to Junior High and High School in Edmonton, and I'm surprised that the school allowed them to give away NTs. It's good that there was no reprecussions to the students.

When I was in Grade 8 and was asked if there was any atheists in the class, I put up my hand and the religion teacher freaked out. It was pretty bad. Sad thing is, this was only 10 years ago, and in a pretty large, mainstream school.

Other Comments by Adam Morrison

46. Comment #167463 by 4horsefins on April 24, 2008 at 4:34 am

FOOT IN THE DOOR

parent "why do you have that bible in your school bag?"

child " It was in each student's desk, and we were told we could take them home if we want."

parent "why did you?"

child "That cute girl I have been trying to go with got one so I had no choice"

parent "ring...ring...ring"

school "hello"

parent "Why did you give bibles to the students"

school "They said as long as we didn't tell them they had to take it home we could put them in their desks"

Other Comments by 4horsefins

47. Comment #167465 by BananaOfDoom on April 24, 2008 at 4:43 am

Do the Gideons really need another place to put Bibles?? They have one in every bloody hotel room, and now they want to give them away to elementary students??

Ridiculous...

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48. Comment #167481 by Heretic on April 24, 2008 at 5:10 am

After my first assembly in year 7 (age 11) in the UK, we were all handed a French-English dictionary and a new testament by the school, if I remember correctly.
In the UK schools are leaglly obliged to give a daily assembly of a 'broadly christian' outlook.

Other Comments by Heretic

49. Comment #167502 by Jeff R. on April 24, 2008 at 5:34 am

I really don't understand the fuss.

The bible is surely the most powerful piece of anti-christian propaganda there is.

I fondly remember, as a youngster, browsing through it, giggling at the naughty bits then being disgusted by the moral obscenities (the gratuitous violence, mainly).

The bible and the koran should be made available to all youngsters, so they can read for themselves how absurd and hypocritical their proponents are.

The other manufactured brochures and puff-pieces are a different story, but as an atheist I rely on my bible(s) for ammunition.

Other Comments by Jeff R.

50. Comment #167641 by old-toy-boy on April 24, 2008 at 8:28 am

Let me see if I (a Brit), have this right. In the U.S, you cannot preach/promote religion in state schools, even teaching 'about' world religions (plural) is discouraged because it may be mistaken for preaching religion, yes? onsequently hhanding out free religious books in schools is not allowed... So handing out non-religious books should be OK... (you can probably guess where this is leading...) you can not get much more non-religious than books like 'The God delision", Or 'The Blind Watchmaker'.

(Have I just evolved an argument to exploit a niche?)

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