1. Comment #172494 by Thurston on April 29, 2008 at 4:04 pm

This is good news. I heard Stein on Pat Robertson's farcical programme openly using his own ethnicity to promote his nonsensical holocaust claims.

I still can't work out whether Stein genuinely believes the drivel in this film or whether his motives are more cynical.

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2. Comment #172495 by dloubet on April 29, 2008 at 4:07 pm

Is there some official Hebrew lower caste that Ben can be a member of, or do we just get to call him unclean?

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3. Comment #172499 by Myotis Lucifugus on April 29, 2008 at 4:14 pm

Cheers!

Other Comments by Myotis Lucifugus

4. Comment #172501 by Big T on April 29, 2008 at 4:17 pm

Right on, Anti-Defamation League! Tell it like it is!

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5. Comment #172504 by mcashin on April 29, 2008 at 4:19 pm

This seems about right. Kudos to the ADL.

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6. Comment #172505 by Andrew Stich on April 29, 2008 at 4:19 pm

It's certainly true, and I agree with every word of it, but I wish the author had supported what he was saying.

Not that there is a reasonable doubt to be had, but some people might not understand how Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection has no bearing when it comes to moral conduct.

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7. Comment #172506 by cam9976 on April 29, 2008 at 4:20 pm

Hopefully Ben Stein will be Expelled from the Jewish community.

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8. Comment #172509 by rod-the-farmer on April 29, 2008 at 4:26 pm

Re post # 172506 by cam9976

Did we not have a comment by someone who knew Ben Stein because he went to the same temple ? I wonder what the elders (?) of that particular temple would have to say now that the ADL has taken an official position. It would be amusingly ironic, to say the least, if Ben were to be expelled from his own temple for trivialising the Holocaust.

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9. Comment #172513 by ssdexecutor on April 29, 2008 at 4:40 pm

This is welcome, and unsurprising. I don't think I've ever met another non-Orthodox American Jew with views like Ben Stein.

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10. Comment #172515 by will young on April 29, 2008 at 4:41 pm

I doubt seriously if the arrogant bastard would even care if his own rabbi did chastise him. It would be a nice touch though.

The movie fell from 10th place to 13th this last weekend and brought in less than half of what it earned its first weekend.

It's a huge flop.

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11. Comment #172519 by Mitchell Gilks on April 29, 2008 at 4:49 pm

Good. I completely agree that this shamelessly makes use of the holocaust to further it's political, religious and ideological agenda. I hope to countinue to see the systematic and constant denounciation of this propoganda by everyone who sees or hears about it.

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12. Comment #172526 by markg on April 29, 2008 at 4:59 pm

comment by dloubet:
Is there some official Hebrew lower caste that Ben can be a member of, or do we just get to call him unclean?

If you look in a Yiddish slang dictionary, these words would describe Ben Stein:

bubkis - nothing, but less than nothing if possible
shmuck - idiot
shmendrik - jerk, but so much more
shlemiel - clumsy dope, klutz
shmeckle - penis

Other Comments by markg

13. Comment #172528 by FishSci on April 29, 2008 at 5:02 pm

cam9976 wrote: Hopefully Ben Stein will be Expelled from the Jewish community.

Is that even possible? If so, do they sew his foreskin back on?



(sorry, this one just screamed at me to get out)

Other Comments by FishSci

14. Comment #172530 by mandrellian on April 29, 2008 at 5:05 pm

Right on. I'd like to see the entire Jewish community make a pariah out of Stein for his utterly offensive misappropriation of the Shoah to further shallow, narrow religio-political ends. The insensitivity of it is singularly baffling, considering it's his own culture he's spreading falsehoods about.

Stein's clearly (and again, bafflingly) in bed with the Creo Nutjobs/Religious Right here, but I have to ask: what's in it for him? Is the payoff from this farce worth the worldwide ridicule and disgust and the end of his career? Or is he just so monumentally & inexplicably stupid he actually believes the shit he's shovelling?

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15. Comment #172543 by noodly_noodleson on April 29, 2008 at 5:33 pm

markg,
shmeckle?
Sounds so diminutive...

Other Comments by noodly_noodleson

16. Comment #172545 by Szymanowski on April 29, 2008 at 5:37 pm

Digg it:
http://digg.com/movies/Anti_Evolution_Film_Misappropriates_the_Holocaust

Other Comments by Szymanowski

17. Comment #172547 by cyberguy on April 29, 2008 at 5:46 pm

Did you hear that Ben Stein once had an arsehole transplant?

The arsehole rejected him!

Other Comments by cyberguy

18. Comment #172549 by FightingFalcon on April 29, 2008 at 5:56 pm

Using the Holocaust in order to tarnish those who promote the theory of evolution is outrageous and trivializes the complex factors that led to the mass extermination of European Jewry.

Funny - I find the ADL's efforts to monopolize the suffering of the Holocaust to be trivializing.

But hey, who honestly cares about Romas, homosexuals, Russians, non-Russian Slavs, political dissidents, the handicapped, Communists, POWs, the entire town of Lidice, etc. anyway? Right?

Other Comments by FightingFalcon

19. Comment #172550 by Dr Benway on April 29, 2008 at 5:57 pm

Best thing that could happen to this horrible Expelled propaganda.

Other Comments by Dr Benway

20. Comment #172552 by kram50 on April 29, 2008 at 6:00 pm

I had the misfortune of witnessing Stein on CNN with Glen Beck..(who shares his dribble). The crap that came out of his mouth was incredible. I couldn't watch for long...made me very frustrated to hear two grown men support each others lies.

My challenge to Mr. know-it-all Beck is to invite someone on his show with more intelligents to tell the audience the truth. What are the chances of that happening??

As well, wasn't Hitlers evil plan the divine handywork of an invisible "sky daddy".
You can't have it both ways!!

What a crock of crap!!

Other Comments by kram50

21. Comment #172561 by kram50 on April 29, 2008 at 6:11 pm

Cyberguy:

I can't stop laughing...good stuff!!

Other Comments by kram50

22. Comment #172605 by moderndaythomas on April 29, 2008 at 7:15 pm

Using the Holocaust in order to tarnish those who promote the theory of evolution is outrageous and trivializes the complex factors that led to the mass extermination of European Jewry.

Fight the good fight, baby!

Other Comments by moderndaythomas

23. Comment #172628 by mmurray on April 29, 2008 at 8:01 pm

I assume all three paragraphs constitute the press release ? In that case the blockquote should be removed. It is kind of confusing on the original site as well.

Michael

Other Comments by mmurray

24. Comment #172633 by 82abhilash on April 29, 2008 at 8:07 pm

I bet the people in the Anti-defamation League never expected to see the day when one of their own would stab them on the back.

Other Comments by 82abhilash

25. Comment #172635 by Skepticon on April 29, 2008 at 8:08 pm

"Hitler did not need Darwin to devise his heinous plan to exterminate the Jewish people and Darwin and evolutionary theory cannot explain Hitler's genocidal madness."

No, but Hitler needed Christianity! Hitler united Catholics and Protestants against the Jews. No small task that. Positive Christianity was a key plank in the Nazi party platform. I understand why the ADL can't say that publicly, but they should.

Other Comments by Skepticon

26. Comment #172636 by Elles on April 29, 2008 at 8:09 pm

I thought as much... If I were Jewish and people were using something my ancestors had suffered through for their personal anti-science agenda, I'd be pissed.

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27. Comment #172647 by savroD on April 29, 2008 at 8:30 pm

I suggest everyone here do as I.... go to yahoo finance where Ben Stein posts articles. Then go to the feedback link and demand they stop allowing him space because his financial info is suspect based on his support of this film.

Other Comments by savroD

28. Comment #172664 by dawgdoc2000 on April 29, 2008 at 9:08 pm

savroD:

excellent idea. Done.

dd2k

Other Comments by dawgdoc2000

29. Comment #172690 by Raiko on April 29, 2008 at 11:14 pm

Dear Mr. Stein,

I don't know why everyone is bashing you. I honestly don't understand it - your effort is awesome. I can't wait for the upcoming documentary "Behind Expelled" in which you'll certainly show us the material of your promotion efforts and the behind-the-scenes footage of the shootings for Expelled to show people how claiming support through a religious cause blinds people to the reality of things.

I can't believe they don't value your efforts to expose yourself to the religious right like that and openly lie, and willingly endure all the ridicule against you from the rational, scientific side. I mean - this must be a hard time for you until you can finally turn around and show people that propaganda is actually what leads to war and discrimination. Just know that you have ALL my support as you go through this very hard time for this higher purpose!

Or could it be these people actually believe you'd be so stupid to support the things you're saying? Do they have that little faith in your intelligence? I am puzzled as to how anyone who knows what an intelligent person you are, could not see right through your strategy (the blinded religious right excepted).

I pull my hat before you, Mr. Stein. All of us just constantly try to tackle fundamentalists and their politics from the outside, but you're the only one who dares to get right in the middle to deliver a blow from within.

Please know, you have ALL my support, Mr. Stein. Your strategy is simply brilliant.

Sincerely,
Raiko


((Please note the heavy sarcasm))
(And I know it is only mildly related, but I had to write it somewhere :D)

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30. Comment #172693 by Don_Quix on April 29, 2008 at 11:19 pm

Although I don't often find myself in agreement with the ADL, I can think of only one word to describe this:

PWN3D

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31. Comment #172695 by Raiko on April 29, 2008 at 11:23 pm

Don_Quix


Your icon kills me. I could watch that for hours.

Other Comments by Raiko

32. Comment #172706 by RationalistHomeTchr on April 30, 2008 at 12:43 am

I believe I was the one that rod-the-farmer mentioned in Comment #9. When PZ Meyers was first expelled from Expelled, way back when, I was surprised to find out that my sister and her family are members of the same temple as Stein...I've tried to light a bit of a fire in my usually-feisty sister about Stein's shameful participation in this film--thinking that she'd at least be upset about the dishonest and manipulative use of Holocaust images--but she feels no connection to the man and is busy with her job and kids, plus volunteering on behalf of Katrina victims, plus working toward the US Presidential election.

The Jewish temple (a Reform Jewish synagogue)is huge. I got the impression that Stein may not go very often; I'm not sure that my sister has even seen him there, although everyone knows he's one of their more famous members...I know that she has never met him and does not actually know him.

Other Comments by RationalistHomeTchr

33. Comment #172712 by windweaver on April 30, 2008 at 1:11 am

Those praising the ADL for the above press release need to understand the nature of the beast:



"The ADL has virtually abandoned its earlier role as a civil rights organization, becoming 'one of the main pillars' of Israeli propaganda in the U.S. These efforts, buttressed by insinuations of anti-Semitism or direct accusations, are intended to deflect or undermine opposition to Israeli policies, including Israel's refusal, with U.S. support, to move towards a general political settlement."-Noam Chomsky, Jewish intellectual


"The ADL is one of the ugliest, most powerful pressure groups in the U.S. Its primary commitment is to use any technique, however dishonest and disgraceful, in order to defame and silence and destroy anybody who dares to criticize the Holy State ('Israel')."-Noam Chomsky

"The ADL lost most of its credibility in my eyes as a civil rights organization when it began to identify criticisms of Israel with anti-Semitism, still more when it failed to defend me when I was receiving threats to my life from right-wing Jewish groups because of my critique of Israeli policy toward Palestinians (it said that these were not threats that came from my being Jewish, so therefore they were not within their area of concern)".-Michael Lerner,rabbi

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34. Comment #172716 by rod-the-farmer on April 30, 2008 at 1:29 am

Someone mentioned that they saw Ben Stein listed as a guest speaker at a forthcoming Cisco conference. I subscribe to an IT industry newsletter, and a very recent issue had an interview with a Cisco senior manager. Comments are allowed, so I asked why Cisco would invite someone who attacks the scientific method to speak at their event. No response as yet. although it is possible they may delete it as being off-topic. Time will tell.

Other Comments by rod-the-farmer

35. Comment #172722 by Raiko on April 30, 2008 at 1:56 am

why Cisco would invite someone who attacks the scientific method to speak at their event

I doubt it, but maybe they just needed some comic relief.

Other Comments by Raiko

36. Comment #172749 by emmet on April 30, 2008 at 3:32 am

I've been saying that the ADL should jump all over Expelled. I'm glad they have.

Other people I'd like to see publically condemning it include:

* Holocaust historians
* The curator of the concentration camp used in the movie (was it Dachau or Auschwitz?).
* Any rabbi, particularly a senior rabbi, a German rabbi, or Ben Stein's rabbi
* Groups representing the Roma people, gays, the mentally or physically handicapped, or other groups the Nazis murdered en masse.

Other Comments by emmet

37. Comment #172766 by Stafford Gordon on April 30, 2008 at 4:28 am

"Hefetze" / Object.

Other Comments by Stafford Gordon

38. Comment #172770 by Vaal on April 30, 2008 at 4:34 am

As Darwin was English, does that mean the English by association are Darwinists. Strange that it was the English "Darwinists" who were among the first to arrive at the death camps to liberate Ben Steins relatives from the horrors of totalitarian genocidal fascism. What poppycock! He should hang his head in shame.

I wonder what Darwin himself would think if he was alive today, to hear such drivel being propagated in his name. He may have been a product of his era, but his views, particularly on race, were well beyond the Zeitgeist of his time. I suspect he would be utterly horrified.

Other Comments by Vaal

39. Comment #172939 by mixmastergaz on April 30, 2008 at 7:35 am

Q: What do you call the useless bit of skin that remains after completion of a circumcision?

A: Ben Stein.

Other Comments by mixmastergaz

40. Comment #172982 by emmet on April 30, 2008 at 8:13 am

Q: What do you call the useless bit of skin that remains after completion of a circumcision?

A: Ben Stein.

Or "When Ben Stein was circumcised, the rabbi threw away the wrong part."

Other Comments by emmet

41. Comment #173039 by al-rawandi on April 30, 2008 at 8:59 am

_riverrun,






Well said, well said!

Yes it is disgusting to use the suffering for any ends other than justice or the prevention of further suffering.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

42. Comment #173041 by al-rawandi on April 30, 2008 at 9:02 am

_riverrun,






YES! I was just about to recommend The Holocaust Industry.

My favorite is when a camp was liberated (1945) with 100,000 survivors, then in 1999 the commission claimed 160,000 survivors. That is some fuzzy math right there!

Raul Hillberg had high praise for the book, and Hillberg is widely considered the authority on the Holocaust.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

43. Comment #173051 by Elli on April 30, 2008 at 9:15 am

25. Comment #172633 by 82abhilash on April 29, 2008 at 8:07 pm
I bet the people in the Anti-defamation League never expected to see the day when one of their own would stab them on the back.

It happens often. Chomsky, Finkelstein et al.
Now, I am not commenting on Chomsky et al in any substantive way - just that they are people born Jewish and people who I am sure the ADL has major disagreements with.

One good thing about Judaism (and believe me, there is not much to work with) is that it has always fostered critical thinking. As patently dogmatic as its halacha and ritual can be, the spirit of talmudic study has always been one of questioning and critical thinking... and explains why so many Jews were at the forefront of the enlightenment and why so many modern Jews are atheists or similar. So there will always be plenty of "their own" who go against the Jewish institutional thinking on any subject. In this case, it is Stein who is in the wrong and the ADL in the right. It is, however, more regularly not the Jewish institutions that are on the intelligent side of the issue.

Other Comments by Elli

44. Comment #173053 by al-rawandi on April 30, 2008 at 9:19 am

_riverrun,




I am a follower of Finkelstein's career. I have corresponded personally with him. He has always been as honest as he could be. I don't agree with everything he says, but he always says it honestly.

I have seen his destruction of Dershowitz.

Not only did Duescheowitz start a letter writing campaign to DePaul, he also started a campaign to suppress the publication of Beyond Chutzpah by Finkelstein. Dersh wrote to UC Press and Gov. Schwarzenegger to intercede. UC Press said "Fuck you, 1st Amendment" (basically).

I had a recent debate with people accusing Finkelstein of being an anti-semite and holocaust denier. I pointed out his parents survived the Holocaust and asked for evidence of anti-semitism. I receieved no definitive evidence that he has ever done anything that was in itself anti-semitism or motivated by anti-semitism. Of course that is when the name calling ensued.

The attacks on him are always led by liars and distorters.

The ADL even sent a letter to Georgetown to block him from speaking, saying that he was a "Holocaust Denier". This was demonstrably false, and is evidence that the ADL lies to suppress the free speech of American citizens.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

45. Comment #173054 by al-rawandi on April 30, 2008 at 9:21 am

Elli,







I agree. Jews have been exceptional critical thinkers. Remember the saying:


"Ask 2 Jews, get 3 opinions".


Jews should be proud of such a tradition!

Other Comments by al-rawandi

46. Comment #173059 by Elli on April 30, 2008 at 9:33 am

Al, it is one of the true ironies of the world's history. How a people (and a religion) with such a nasty and hideous book as its guide, and with such (at times) fanatical adherence to ritual and custom even in the face of death, can also be a people who almost universally embrace critical thought, reason, art and science. I don't really have an explanation for this, other then the "spirit" of questioning everything that has been the Rabbinical/talmudic method throughout. It just goes to show how much of a difference something as simple as encouraging individual thought as opposed to groupthink can be. The other 2 major religions seem to foster the opposite: groupthink over individual thought - and the difference seems to be profound. Nonetheless, before I wax too lyrical about the virtues of Jewish thinkers, it is important to note that the Jews have had plenty of dangerously moronic twats also.

Other Comments by Elli

47. Comment #173061 by al-rawandi on April 30, 2008 at 9:39 am

Elli,






For good or for bad, the Jews have never had large numbers. This is due to a largely non-recruiting nature. So there was never opportunities to impose the nasty regimes that Christianity and Islam have.

Also the Jews have taken enough shit from people, this has tied them closely to civil rights movements and other socially liberal movements. My fear now, is the mass exodus to the far right by many Jews, will lead to a partial abandonment of many of the qualities I respect so much.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

48. Comment #173065 by Charles Bradlaugh on April 30, 2008 at 9:47 am

I agree with Fighting Falcon for what it's worth. Although, for those of you who find Finkelstein too hardcore, Peter Novick's 'Collective Memory and the Holocaust' I can't recommend enough.

On a sidebar, can anyone explain why the expression 'self-hating Jew' sets my teeth on edge?

Other Comments by Charles Bradlaugh

49. Comment #173068 by CruciFiction on April 30, 2008 at 9:50 am

Mrhogg thinks people will be stunned to discover what Ben Stein's "real" agenda is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vOT6UDERug

He makes some good points -- can anyone really be that completely stupid and ignorant?

Other Comments by CruciFiction

50. Comment #173070 by al-rawandi on April 30, 2008 at 9:52 am

Charles,




"Self Hating Jew" is used because the Jews seem to have immunity from anti-semitism. Jews usually have a strong conscious, so when they criticize Jews or Israel, they need to be delegitimized. Non-Jews are easily de-legitimized by "anti-semite", but Jews need a special term.

It is a repellent term because it suggests a very serious pathology, and a knowledge of this pathology based simply on political or religious views.

Other Comments by al-rawandi