1. Comment #174710 by ~manic-depressive on May 3, 2008 at 10:13 am

Is there no limit to human irrationality?

I am reminded of Nehru's views on religion: "India is supposed to be a religious country above everything else, and Hindu and Moslem and Sikh and others take pride in their faiths and testify to their truth by breaking heads. The spectacle of what is called religion, or at any rate organised religion, in India and elsewhere has filled me with horror, and I have frequently condemned it and wished to make a clean sweep of it. Almost always it seems to stand for blind belief and reaction, dogma and bigotry, superstition and exploitation, and the preservation of vested interests. And yet I knew well that there was something else in it, something which supplied a deep inner craving of human beings. How else could it have been the tremendous power it has been and brought peace and comfort to innumerable tortured souls? Was that peace merely the shelter of blind belief and absence of questioning, the calm that comes from being safe in harbour, protected from the storms of the open sea, or was it something more? In some cases certainly it was something more.
But organized religion, whatever its past may have been, today is largely an empty form devoid of real content. Mr. G. K. Chesterton has compared it (not his own particular brand of religion, but other!) to a fossil which is the form of an animal or organism from which all its own organic substance has entirely disappeared, but has kept its shape, because it has been filled up by some totally different substance. And, even where something of value still remains, it is enveloped by other and harmful contents. That seems to have happened in our Eastern religions as well as in the Western." (From his autobiography)

Nehru was one who realized and expressed the conviction that "the future belonged to science".

Other Comments by ~manic-depressive

2. Comment #174712 by mikes on May 3, 2008 at 10:15 am

And we thought Michael Jackson had a few cards missing from his deck.

Other Comments by mikes

3. Comment #174714 by Pitchfork on May 3, 2008 at 10:22 am

Wow...the right to worship. the right to murder... the right to be insane... the right to endanger or injure children...

So typical of religious zealots.

And we are supposed to be tolerant and respectful of these kinds of customs and practices?

Other Comments by Pitchfork

4. Comment #174716 by Nails on May 3, 2008 at 10:26 am

I read this in yesterday's paper.

It really does begger belief.
Surely child safety laws should come into play?

Just a thought, do you think Michael Jackson has tried this?

* edit - just read Mike's comment, sorry for the repitition *

Other Comments by Nails

5. Comment #174717 by Tetsujin on May 3, 2008 at 10:26 am

...either that or drown it in milk.

Seriously, someone give these people condoms.

Other Comments by Tetsujin

6. Comment #174721 by will young on May 3, 2008 at 10:38 am

Who thinks up stupidity like this?

Other Comments by will young

7. Comment #174722 by Hostile2012 on May 3, 2008 at 10:45 am

I really don't know what to say to this.

Other Comments by Hostile2012

8. Comment #174723 by Paine on May 3, 2008 at 10:47 am

Isn't Sanal the same guy who made a fool of that Tantrik black magic clown?

Other Comments by Paine

9. Comment #174726 by Mango on May 3, 2008 at 11:07 am

I wonder what the connection is between being blessed with a child and then tossing the child off the roof? I think it's just an excuse for spectacle.

Simple pleasures for simple minds. :)

Other Comments by Mango

10. Comment #174727 by JesusChrist on May 3, 2008 at 11:08 am

Surely this seems bizarre by our standards, but if it is true that there has been no evidence of physical harm, then how can we condemn them from the outside? If there really have been no injuries or fatalities this is a great testament to the care these people are taking. To their credit they must understand the danger of what they are doing and are taking what they believe to be the appropriate precautions. This practice still doesn't sit well with me, but we all must be willing to follow the evidence even to uncomfortable places.

Having said that I imagine it would only take one accident to provide the evidence needed to curtail or at least modify this tradition. The claim that this ritual actually helps the health of the infant is one that could and I think should be scientifically investigated. Couldn't it be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that there's no point in throwing the baby out (with or without the bath water)? On the other hand, if I were a member of this sect I imagine I would welcome the chance to prove the benefits of this ritual to the rest of the world, just as the religious tend to embrace any scientific evidence that would "prove" the benefit of prayer or any other ritual.

Aside from the inherent risk involved, I think the question of consent is a compelling consideration. Obviously these babies aren't choosing of their own free will to be thrown. I would be much more accepting of this practice if those taking the fall were of age to willingly volunteer for it. Then it'd be more like a "trust fall" or even an emergency evacuation drill, which actually could be beneficial; someone who has overcome their fear of heights through practice is more likely to be able to jump to safety from a burning 5-story building.

So for me it boils down to two questions: 1) are they really doing any harm, and even if not 2) is it ethical to do this to people without their consent?

Other Comments by JesusChrist

11. Comment #174728 by Quetzalcoatl on May 3, 2008 at 11:11 am

When they mentioned the fact that none of the children suffered from any recorded physical disabilities, it reminded me of the joke from the Simpsons about the Tiger-repelling rock.

Paine- yes, it's the same guy.

Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl

12. Comment #174731 by HourglassMemory on May 3, 2008 at 11:17 am

*Sigh*
That's all I say.

Other Comments by HourglassMemory

13. Comment #174732 by phil rimmer on May 3, 2008 at 11:19 am

Pathetic.

Now if they had a decent, all powerful God, they'd be able to do it without the aid of the sheet.

(Couldn't watch the clip through. Made me too angry.)

Other Comments by phil rimmer

14. Comment #174734 by Szkeptik on May 3, 2008 at 11:32 am

The news on the first child that missed the sheet isn't far away. The parents will probably be standing close enough to hear the bones cracking.

Other Comments by Szkeptik

15. Comment #174736 by moderndaythomas on May 3, 2008 at 11:42 am

Comment from JesusChrist

Surely this seems bizarre by our standards, but if it is true that there has been no evidence of physical harm, then how can we condemn them from the outside? If there really have been no injuries or fatalities this is a great testament to the care these people are taking. To their credit they must understand the danger of what they are doing and are taking what they believe to be the appropriate precautions. This practice still doesn't sit well with me, but we all must be willing to follow the evidence even to uncomfortable places.

I have little trust in the record keeping from areas like this. So to say that for all this time there has been no effects or fatalities is a risky bet. In anycase this is only testimony, and we know that that doesn't count right?

I'm also going to say that because there has been no revealed injury or death, does not remove the obvious risk of injury from the equation.
People cross bussy streets without injury all the time but that doesn't make bussy streets any less dangerous.

Other Comments by moderndaythomas

16. Comment #174738 by SharonMcT on May 3, 2008 at 11:42 am

I think there is evidence to suggest that there is some physical harm being done: it damages the part of the brain that keeps people from doing stoopid things to children.

Other Comments by SharonMcT

17. Comment #174742 by moderndaythomas on May 3, 2008 at 11:47 am

Sharon, very funny! It's like an honorary Darwin award.

Other Comments by moderndaythomas

18. Comment #174745 by Hawker on May 3, 2008 at 11:53 am

I actually heard that the blessing is only effective from 51 feet....oops! I guess it is a good thing that India has a good tradition of making durable textiles. What type of blessing are they hoping for any way, a child that grows up with strong reasoning skills? I have a hard enough time understanding people that close their eyes and pray let alone this madness. I really think the parents should be dropped over the edge first, then they can get a double blessing...or a fractured skull.

Other Comments by Hawker

19. Comment #174749 by ofir on May 3, 2008 at 12:08 pm

The claim that this ritual actually helps the health of the infant is one that could and I think should be scientifically investigated.

I agree. Why don't you jump off a building and report back on the medical benefits?

Other Comments by ofir

20. Comment #174750 by Jiten on May 3, 2008 at 12:09 pm

'kin 'ell ! The things that go on in this world! I wonder what else is happening right now? The most sickening thing is that it is the babies who are having to go through this lunacy; and not the ones who should be,namely the mental virus infected parents.

Other Comments by Jiten

21. Comment #174753 by dave2 on May 3, 2008 at 12:17 pm

c'mon guys, it looks like everyone's having fun. wheee!

Other Comments by dave2

22. Comment #174757 by Border Collie on May 3, 2008 at 12:23 pm

I think the throwers should become the throwees, to a proportional distance relative to their size, and simply see how they like it. They would probably attain, within all the fun and games, at least some degree of the enlightment they supposedly seek.

Other Comments by Border Collie

23. Comment #174784 by GSP on May 3, 2008 at 1:43 pm

hey, what doesn't kill ya makes ya stronger...

Other Comments by GSP

24. Comment #174785 by fatcitymax on May 3, 2008 at 1:48 pm

Could become a new Olympics sport. The baby that bounces the highest gets the gold medal.

Other Comments by fatcitymax

25. Comment #174786 by will young on May 3, 2008 at 1:50 pm

"So for me it boils down to two questions: 1) are they really doing any harm, and even if not 2) is it ethical to do this to people without their consent? "

The answer to both is yes.

1.) Putting a child in harm's way.

2.) Of course not.

Sheesh!

EDIT: Typo

Other Comments by will young

26. Comment #174801 by Pattern Seeker on May 3, 2008 at 2:50 pm

Somebody should throw those fools off the building. Then we'll find out exactly how fun it is.

...And don't forget to take away the sheet. Idiots.

Other Comments by Pattern Seeker

27. Comment #174805 by springsfromsalt on May 3, 2008 at 3:07 pm

They may not have been physically hurt but there's the unknown emotional effect that concerns me. Being chucked off a roof and then handed from stranger to stranger, all the while crying their eyes out! What a shame!

Other Comments by springsfromsalt

28. Comment #174813 by MPhil on May 3, 2008 at 3:22 pm

Just because I want to get everyone's attention - I'm posting this on every active thread (I hope you'll forgive me)

Guys - take a look at this...


The Vatican has joined forces with Shiite Muslims.
Ridiculous statements, and a direct attack on negative religious freedom:

(be warned - you may throw up in your mouths)

http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=88070

If any local newspaper of yours runs this story - send a letter to the editor for publishment. Put it on your blogs and tear it to shreads... raise awareness that this is a dangerous alliance, and a large-scale attack on negative religious freedom, freedom of speech- and it is ludicoursly revisionist history!

Other Comments by MPhil

29. Comment #174839 by rod-the-farmer on May 3, 2008 at 4:12 pm

The explanation for this is quite simple. Someone in India heard of the western custom of 'dwarf tossing', and simply mis-translated it. Problem solved.

Other Comments by rod-the-farmer

30. Comment #174868 by will young on May 3, 2008 at 5:20 pm

"The Vatican has joined forces with Shiite Muslims."

For a supernatural circle jerk.

Other Comments by will young

31. Comment #174873 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on May 3, 2008 at 5:23 pm

The Vatican has joined forces with Shiite Muslims.

No doubt strengthened by their mutual hatred of the Jews.

Other Comments by ThoughtsonCommonToad

32. Comment #174879 by History_Junky on May 3, 2008 at 5:39 pm

One of the things that made me grateful for belonging to the sikh heritage is that the religion was developed to do away with stupid rituals and superstitions like this.

Although ive never believed in god i have always considered sikhism more as a way of life and self identification, never the less I am glad that my ancestors chose to stray away from stupid rituals like this.

Other Comments by History_Junky

33. Comment #174881 by mordacious1 on May 3, 2008 at 5:42 pm

Please don't try this at home! Although, if you feel you must, then it might be a good thing for the Gene Pool.

Other Comments by mordacious1

34. Comment #174882 by mordacious1 on May 3, 2008 at 5:45 pm

I'm just glad that my parents never dropped me fifty feet; or did they?

Other Comments by mordacious1

35. Comment #174892 by Koreman on May 3, 2008 at 6:38 pm

Of course these people are not true believers. The true -whatever religion- is peaceful and loving and sharing and true.

Other Comments by Koreman

36. Comment #174894 by Paine on May 3, 2008 at 6:43 pm

History Junky

One of the things that made me grateful for belonging to the sikh heritage is that the religion was developed to do away with stupid rituals and superstitions like this.

That's a joke. Sikh's are supposed to wear magic Mormon-style underpants. And carry a knife inside them. Not to mention the bangles for guys.

Besides, never shaving and never cutting your hair is enough stupidity for a lifetime.

Other Comments by Paine

37. Comment #174899 by Grantaire of JC on May 3, 2008 at 6:57 pm

I think that this may just make the next Darwin Awards book.

Other Comments by Grantaire of JC

38. Comment #174902 by History_Junky on May 3, 2008 at 7:16 pm

@Paine
Those are symbols to show you are a sikh, they do not hold any meaning beyond symbolism.

Do a little bit of reading, the original guru of sikhism advocated against rituals and superstitions, he sat infront of a hindu mandhir and ate meat to show them he wasnt going to be run over by a herd of cows.

Not only that but he did away with the caste system because he understood how utterly stupid it was.

But lemme guess, wearing a shirt with an A on it to show your an athiest is cool unlike wearing religous symobols to show your affiliation with a belief?

Sikhism is suppose to be formless and unritualistic, unfortunately islam and hinduism wanted to absorb sikhs so they developed thier own system to prevent thier extinction.

Like any religion it started off well but took on a life of its own.

Zomg gaiz im an athiest i can attack any religion i want without understanding that they are indeed different from one antoher.

edit: Btw, i was referring to the fact that my ancestors were better of converting to sikhism then remaining in the dogmatic religions of Islam and Hinduism not once was I implying that it was a source of reason. You need to cool your jets.

Other Comments by History_Junky

39. Comment #174903 by RationalistHomeTchr on May 3, 2008 at 7:18 pm

Aren't babies' brains hurt by jostling around in their skulls? And wouldn't this tend to do that?

Other Comments by RationalistHomeTchr

40. Comment #174904 by lievemebe on May 3, 2008 at 7:25 pm

Comment #174813 by MPhil
This is truly sinister. Apparently it is a move to entrench faith as the international currency of religion. This will enable irrationality, stupidity and deception to be more easily tradeable. Baby tossing and genital mutilation will be compared as demonstrative expressions of religious fervour using a new international faith language. It is all the more dangerous because the pope and other religious leaders are feeling threatened by reason and science.

Other Comments by lievemebe

41. Comment #174907 by markg on May 3, 2008 at 7:32 pm

comment by RationalistHT

Aren't babies' brains hurt by jostling around in their skulls? And wouldn't this tend to do that?

I was wondering the same thing. Even though some of the force of impact is absorbed by the catching, I wonder what is happening to the infants' brain inside it's skull. Or what if they landed in an odd position and broke a bone or did other damage? I wouldn't be surprised if that happened.

edit Notice they don't do this to anyone old enough to put up a fight such as older child or adult? Gee, I wonder why.

Other Comments by markg

42. Comment #174921 by Elles on May 3, 2008 at 9:01 pm

What the fuck?

Good for their health?

What. The. Fuck?

Other Comments by Elles

43. Comment #174923 by DasSquid on May 3, 2008 at 9:08 pm

Brilliant Idea!

But as mentioned before, let's remove the blanket, and have the people catch the falling babies with their faith!

Yes! With their faith, and if the babies fall to their deaths, the adults' faith obviously wasn't strong enough!

So just keep trying, and keep praying harder!

Eventually you'll prove yourselves right, or more likely, you'll run out of children and your whole nation will be eraddicated in a single generation because of faith.

Oh please, I'm begging of you, can't you see? I'm on my hands and knees here begging for you to kill yourselves.

Other Comments by DasSquid

44. Comment #174928 by Paine on May 3, 2008 at 9:47 pm

HistoryJunky

I apologise if I came across as offensive, since that was not my intention. Though it is interesting to see someone take offence on behalf of a religion in an atheist forum. My point is that religions can't be 'improved'. They're all equally irrational and the only way forward is to make a clean break once and for all.

You actually made my point. EVERY single religion starts out as a break from the old superstitions and promises a Brave New World free from dogma. At the end of day they turn out to be just like all the others and bear little or no resemblance to their founder's intentions.

Sikhism may have started out to be different from Hinduism and Islam but it copied a lot of the nonsense from both. Like Muslims they worship a book. Not just what the book says....the ACTUAL book!
It's considered a living Guru or some such nonsense. It is actually wheeled out every year and supposedly gives advice depending on which page happens to be opened. That's pretty much the same as any Hindu idolatry Ive seen.

Lots of enlightened religious people try to justify meaningless anachronisms as 'symbolic', but that doesn't make them any less silly. People claim that Eucharists and Hijab's are also symbolic but they lose their relevance in the modern world.

Besides, anyone can be an atheist and never wear an 'A' shirt. But you can never be true Sikh if you get a haircut or have a shave. And, symbolic or not, that's always seemed to be an exceedingly foolish requirement to insist upon.

Other Comments by Paine

45. Comment #174932 by JD Cherry on May 3, 2008 at 10:09 pm

Eventually you'll prove yourselves right, or more likely, you'll run out of children and your whole nation will be eraddicated in a single generation because of faith.

Oh please, I'm begging of you, can't you see? I'm on my hands and knees here begging for you to kill yourselves.

Or better yet, maybe a religiously motivated nuclear conflict will flare up between Pakistan and India and all those irrational monsters in that part of the world can die, right? Eliminating people who don't have proper drinking water - let alone proper education - is what we rationalists are all about, after all! High five!

Other Comments by JD Cherry

46. Comment #174933 by dragonfirematrix on May 3, 2008 at 10:17 pm

Well, I see here we have...

...another idiotic Neanderthal religious belief. Has anyone considered jailing these perverts?

The human race has a very long way to go.

Other Comments by dragonfirematrix

47. Comment #174935 by JD Cherry on May 3, 2008 at 10:22 pm

I seriously doubt you could have got a Neanderthal to throw its child from a building. :)

Other Comments by JD Cherry

48. Comment #174936 by History_Junky on May 3, 2008 at 10:26 pm

@Paine

Thank you for restating your position more clearly, I aplogise if I came off as rash. My position may seem strange but after reading christian and islamic history from a very young age ive felt myself fortunate to have a history I didn't have to be disgusted at.

I mean if i have to choose between long hair and throwing babies off a building ill take the former.

Other Comments by History_Junky

49. Comment #174942 by DasSquid on May 3, 2008 at 10:37 pm

Or better yet, maybe a religiously motivated nuclear conflict will flare up between Pakistan and India and all those irrational monsters in that part of the world can die, right? Eliminating people who don't have proper drinking water - let alone proper education - is what we rationalists are all about, after all! High five!

Alas no! The problem there is that's far too messy, don't you see? Let's go for the eco-friendly genocide!

C'mon lads! Let's hitch up our pants, encourage these psychos to really test their faith and kill off their next generation!

For a point of seriousness though, the fact that none of the children have not yet been hurt yet absolving them at all is, let's face it, at best a mentally handicapped statement. I also don't understand how they can think that they're doing no damage to these children? I knew religion made dumb people dumber, but can it mush people minds that much that they think that throwing babies off of a building is ok for them?

People wonder why I am a mysanthrope.

Shite, my ability to write is ruined for the day, mind numbing work will tend to do that for you.

Other Comments by DasSquid

50. Comment #174946 by Ascaphus on May 3, 2008 at 11:04 pm

Would this be allowed for any reason other than religion? If the government recommended this, would there not be an uproar about the idiocy of government? If it was the country club, would anybody buy the argument that "it's all in good fun!" They mention that somebody actually suggested that it's good for the kids. If a medical organization prescribed this behaviour, they'd be laughed out of town, after being sued for everything they've got. But because it's religion, we stand by and make videos.

What a world.

Other Comments by Ascaphus