1. Comment #174737 by Ilovelucy on May 3, 2008 at 11:42 am

Love it! In the same way that every Godzilla film needs Tokyo to be destroyed, every Chick tract needs someone to be cast into the lake of fire to keep the punters happy.

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2. Comment #174740 by fides_et_ratio on May 3, 2008 at 11:46 am

Obvious nonsense. Any chance of posting a sensible commentary on the interaction of Christianity and science Josh?

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3. Comment #174741 by epeeist on May 3, 2008 at 11:47 am

Great title for a book in the fourth comment "Superstition for Dummies".

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4. Comment #174743 by pulsar1z on May 3, 2008 at 11:48 am

The people who wrote and published the comic haven't evolved enough yet!

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5. Comment #174746 by Barry Pearson on May 3, 2008 at 11:58 am

Ilovelucy: In the same way that every Godzilla film needs Tokyo to be destroyed, every Chick tract needs someone to be cast into the lake of fire to keep the punters happy.

Ha! Here is a MUCH better godzilla film. (And it stars Richard Dawkins!)

"Answers In Genesis: What about Godzilla?"
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pg26_r274BM

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6. Comment #174747 by Forti on May 3, 2008 at 12:00 pm

What a waste of ink...

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7. Comment #174752 by moderndaythomas on May 3, 2008 at 12:16 pm

Christians are theives!
They're robbing their children blind.

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8. Comment #174760 by Border Collie on May 3, 2008 at 12:30 pm

Gee, double-whiz, thanks a lot for introducing me to this. Where are the men in black with those little flash thingys?

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9. Comment #174765 by Border Collie on May 3, 2008 at 12:34 pm

In a strange sense, these remind me of the Mr. Natural, Flakey Foont, et al, "underground" comics of the late 1960's. I could, however, laugh at those.

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10. Comment #174774 by Layla Nasreddin on May 3, 2008 at 12:52 pm

"Well we're movin'on up, to the east side, to a dee-luxe apartment in the sky..." (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

Seriously, if "evolution does away with morals," so that "anything goes" and you can "lie" and "cheat"...

...what excuse do the oh-so-holy Chickies have for lying so brazenly about, well, everything--evolution, Catholicism, any religion other than the most warped, fundie Christianity, etc.?

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11. Comment #174778 by Forti on May 3, 2008 at 1:22 pm

Umm. Guys?

I just read a couple more comic strips from that site and I'm not sure if I'm going to laugh or barf.

If this isn't a joke, and there are really people in the US who think like that... leave the fucking country. Please. You'll get free healthcare in the EU, and we have cookies.

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12. Comment #174792 by Jack Rawlinson on May 3, 2008 at 2:12 pm

Ah, dear crazy old Jack Chick. He's not getting any saner, is he? This one is particularly batshit, even by his standards.

I was 18 when I first saw one of these insane tracts. It was 1977 and I was at Leeds University. There was a knock on my door. Two young men asked if they could come in and talk to me about Jesus. Turned out they were representing something called the "Campus Crusade for Christ". I was about two years into being a militant atheist so I gave them a warm smile, tried not to salivate, and invited them in.

One guy did all the talking; his mate was one of those silent, vacant-eyed drips who might as well have "personality-free cult victim" branded on their foreheads. Anyway, talkie-guy thrust a small leaflet into my hand and asked me to read it. It was this old favourite.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0001/0001_01.asp

I read it. I was actually shocked. I was an atheist, sure, but in all the arguments I'd had with parents, priests and fellow churchgoers I'd never had to deal with anything this childishly deranged and almost freakishly unintelligent. I'd been all braced for a nice argument about Pascal and Anselm and Augustine... and this perfectly normal-looking, well-spoken guy was expecting me to take this sub-cretinous scribble seriously? I honestly couldn't believe it. Of course, it wasn't until later I discovered this drivel had originated from the lunatic fringe of American Christianity. In those pre-internet days England was largely spared that (barring the odd visit from Billy Graham and his ilk)

Anyway, I handed the tract back to the guy, looked him long in the eye and said "Please tell me this is a joke. Please tell me you don't take that ridiculous litle comic seriously"

He looked offended and assured me he did, and that if I didn't, I was going to hell. I just told him that if heaven meant being in the same place as the kinda of diseased brainstem who could react to Jack Chick with anything but huge derision, hell was just fine by me. And then I told him to get out and stop making such a goddamned fool of himself. As they left I tapped his companion on the shoulder and said, "I know you think this guy's the greatest, but please consider that he might in fact be a screwed-up twat who's feeding you bullshit by the bucketload. Please just consider that next time you think about this stuff on your own."

The other guy overheard, as I'd intended, yelled something like "You won't think you're so smart when you're frying in hell!" I just told him to fuck off and grow up. Sadly, my experiences since then have led me to the conclusion that the sort of person who can ever take a Jack Chick tract seriously isn't ever going to be able to grow up.

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13. Comment #174794 by phil rimmer on May 3, 2008 at 2:25 pm

Jack Rawlinson

"I know you think this guy's the greatest, but please consider that he might in fact be a screwed-up twat who's feeding you bullshit by the bucketload. Please just consider that next time you think about this stuff on your own."

Very nicely done!

Evangelicals do tend to fall into one of two types, the abusers and the abused. The opportunities for petty power play AND the irresistible attraction of attention for the socially inadequate is an unbeatable combination.

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14. Comment #174795 by ivellios on May 3, 2008 at 2:37 pm

I feel much less intelligent after reading that.

He has not the first clue of what is going on.

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15. Comment #174802 by Pattern Seeker on May 3, 2008 at 3:03 pm

Ha! That shit is hilarious. I've been reading those Jack Chick comics for years. They never fail to entertain. Personally, I can't wait until they come out with a Jack Chick graphic novel or maybe a live-action movie. Hollywood's a-callin'.

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16. Comment #174825 by SilentMike on May 3, 2008 at 3:43 pm

That thing is just dumb beyond words. Who in their right mind would fall for that? Hell! Who in their wrong mind would fall for that? There is no "there" there if you know what I mean.

Seriously. If I were a christian with half a brain (and there are some of those around) I would sue those people for libel and defemation of character. It makes Christianity look even dumber and more insane than it actually is. I would not have thought it possible before I first encountered these thigs. But there you go.

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17. Comment #174836 by ~manic-depressive on May 3, 2008 at 4:08 pm

If you wanted to create a satire of this, would it even be possible? It is in and of itself so utterly ridiculous. It pains me to know that there will be bright young people who will be mentally shackled by the fear promoted by this kind of ignorant, immoral nonsense.

Forget not the example of Kurt Wise from TGD who "had to make a decision between evolution and Scripture. Either the Scripture was true and evolution was wrong or evolution was true and I must toss out the Bible . . . It was there that night that I accepted the Word of God and rejected all that would ever counter it, including
evolution. With that, in great sorrow, I tossed into the fire all my dreams and hopes in science.
"

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18. Comment #174838 by Christopher Davis on May 3, 2008 at 4:11 pm

This is priceless. I've never heard of Jack Chick before, how long has this guy been around?

For Christmas, we should all chip in and send this guy a fruitcake. On second thought, maybe not...wouldn't want to contribute to cannabilism.

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19. Comment #174844 by Mr. Davies on May 3, 2008 at 4:30 pm

That is even better than Big Daddy- the one that Kent Hovind helped with...
thanks for the new Avatar Jack!!!

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20. Comment #174861 by mandrellian on May 3, 2008 at 5:05 pm

BorderCollie: "In a strange sense, these remind me of the Mr. Natural, Flakey Foont, et al, "underground" comics of the late 1960's. I could, however, laugh at those."

I think Bob Crumb (creator of the above characters) would vomit blood after being compared to an artist so egregiously dishonest, only barely competently skillful and so obviously aroused by the thought of his "enemies" burning forever ...

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21. Comment #174866 by mordacious1 on May 3, 2008 at 5:14 pm

Oh, I just want to put pixie dust on my middle finger again.

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22. Comment #174874 by Teratornis on May 3, 2008 at 5:30 pm

Comment #174792 by Jack Rawlinson:

Sadly, my experiences since then have led me to the conclusion that the sort of person who can ever take a Jack Chick tract seriously isn't ever going to be able to grow up.

I used to hand out Jack Chick tracts when I was a kid. Never say never.

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23. Comment #174883 by fooj on May 3, 2008 at 5:52 pm

I grew up on Chick tracts. There is lots and lots of fear and intimidation in his publications. Even to this day I have recollections of these childhood feelings. Unfortunately, it took me a long time to get where I am today. Fortunately, I got to where I am today.

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24. Comment #174885 by Jack Rawlinson on May 3, 2008 at 6:02 pm

Teratornis: I should have excluded kids from that comment! I meant any adult that still takes Chick seriously isn't going to manage the whole growing up deal...

Kids will do all sorts of mad things if their elders tell them to...

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/04/depressing_lunacy_presented_pa.php

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25. Comment #174889 by Frankus1122 on May 3, 2008 at 6:24 pm

Comment #174740 by fides_et_ratio

Obvious nonsense. Any chance of posting a sensible commentary on the interaction of Christianity and science Josh?

Such simplemindedness seems to be the dominant mode of thought for a very large majority of Christians. It is obvious nonsense. However, it is also rampant and actually believed. Why do the less unintelligent Christians not speak out more loudly against such nonsense and lies?

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26. Comment #174891 by Friggertool on May 3, 2008 at 6:34 pm

Homer simpson and his neighbour...

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27. Comment #174897 by windfall on May 3, 2008 at 6:48 pm

Ugh, what terrifying drivel. I've seen these things littering the subway station on occasion. And I live in the enlightened Northeast! I've often thought about printing off a rebuttal cartoon lampooning someone who found one of these tracts and took it seriously. Like showing how they ruined part of their life because of it. I nearly blew my college education because of BS peddlers like the campus crusade for christ.

I couldn't read the whole thing; it was causing a physical reaction (stomach turning).

Two things caught my eye though:

1. He felt the need to define the word 'relative' in a footnote. (A comic with footnotes!) Says something about the intended audience.

2. Upon hearing the Adam and Eve story, the boy asks the girl 'Where did you get such a ridiculous story?' She answers, 'From God.' So, if her parents brought her to the church of the FSM and filled her with that, would she respond 'from the FSM'?

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28. Comment #174908 by Jack Rawlinson on May 3, 2008 at 7:35 pm

windfall: you're not the first to find that idea tempting....

http://www.weirdcrap.com/chick/intro.html

This one is a great piss-take of the one I linked in my earlier post...

http://www.jhuger.com/tract/tyd/

Other Comments by Jack Rawlinson

29. Comment #174911 by Lil_Xunzian on May 3, 2008 at 7:55 pm

I love Chick comics. They're so funny. One of these days I'm gonna bake some magic brownies, invite over some friends, and then we can read chick comics aloud to each other until we've laughed ourselves to death, or at least into comas.

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30. Comment #174925 by windfall on May 3, 2008 at 9:19 pm

Wow, thanks, Jack. I see what you mean. And that jhuger site was a hoot, especially his FAQ.

I think I still might have a go at my own semi-parody of a tract which tries to counter the awful messages they're sending, but in a serious way (as outlined above).

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31. Comment #174926 by Mr. Davies on May 3, 2008 at 9:31 pm

The sad thing, Windfall, is that even though "relative" was defined, he got that wrong too..
Websters says
#1 a person related by blood or marriage; "police are searching for relatives of the deceased"; "he has distant relations back in New Jersey"
#2 not absolute or complete; "a relative stranger"
#3 an animal or plant that bears a relationship to another (as related by common descent or by membership in the same genus)
#4 proportional: properly related in size or degree or other measurable characteristics

Relative means the EXACT OPPOSITE of the comics definition "Relative means subject to your opinion.".. not absolute or complete..

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32. Comment #174930 by comet halley on May 3, 2008 at 10:00 pm

This child abuse of threatening children with Hell has got to stop.
New laws are needed.

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33. Comment #174931 by barry21 on May 3, 2008 at 10:06 pm

When I was in elementary school, 2nd grade I think, a Baptist family moved in next door. They had a girl my age, and she gave me Chick tracts. I was raised Jewish and had no idea what the hell these boring little comics were talking about.

She told me on the school bus that the Bible was the only truth. I asked her if it's true that 1 1=2. She wasn't quite sure how to answer.

Since then, my Jewish beliefs have fallen away, but the fascination with fundie propaganda never has. I can't wrap my mind around how people buy into this garbage.

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34. Comment #174934 by JD Cherry on May 3, 2008 at 10:20 pm

Such simplemindedness seems to be the dominant mode of thought for a very large majority of Christians.

If this were true we would all be dead. The majority of southern Baptists and born-agains yes. You do know that the doctrine of the word's single largest sect is accepting of evolutionary theory though, right?

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35. Comment #174938 by Cerberus on May 3, 2008 at 10:30 pm

Ha! That shit is hilarious. I've been reading those Jack Chick comics for years. They never fail to entertain. Personally, I can't wait until they come out with a Jack Chick graphic novel or maybe a live-action movie. Hollywood's a-callin'.

Something like this? http://www.316now.com/heaven.html
Jack Chick didn't do those things but it's quite similar to the tracks and at least as disturbing.

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36. Comment #174944 by riandouglas on May 3, 2008 at 10:48 pm

Chick can't even get his theology straight.
Isn't Jesus supposed to be sitting at the right hand of Yahweh, not on the throne himself?
Isn't Yahweh the one that does the judging?

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37. Comment #174952 by Raiko on May 3, 2008 at 11:49 pm

If this isn't a joke, and there are really people in the US who think like that... leave the fucking country. Please. You'll get free healthcare in the EU, and we have cookies.

What? We don't want the US' Christian bigots over here, thanks! :P

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38. Comment #174956 by lievemebe on May 4, 2008 at 12:01 am

Gosh. I must convert to religion right away.
.....er...er..which one?

Seriously, though, I would not return for a second childhood for this rubbish.

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39. Comment #174980 by Apathy personified on May 4, 2008 at 3:10 am

Are religious people getting stupider, or louder?

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40. Comment #175008 by Rufus08 on May 4, 2008 at 5:33 am

I think I just repented after seeing that!

Oh, no. That was just me puking in my mouth a little bit.

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41. Comment #175015 by Border Collie on May 4, 2008 at 6:39 am

For Barry Pearson ... "What about Godzilla?" Thanks for the link. I'm still choking on my coffee.

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42. Comment #175016 by Frankus1122 on May 4, 2008 at 6:45 am

You do know that the doctrine of the word's single largest sect is accepting of evolutionary theory though, right?

Yes. I should have said in the USA, where the majority of people do not believe in evolution and do seem to hold the views as expressed in the Chick tracts.

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43. Comment #175017 by Frankus1122 on May 4, 2008 at 6:53 am

In fact the only sects seeming to be gaining numbers are the evangelicals (http://www.inspiremagazine.org.uk/news.aspx?action=view&id=2306), and these are the ones that are more likely to reject science and specifically evolution. However it should also be noted what demographic these churches serve.

What seems to be happening is that "reasonable" religion is becoming a spent force. What we will have to face is the rump lunatic fringe, supported by people like Peter Vardy and similar exports from the US.

I stole the above quotation from epeeist on another thread.
It sort of adresses the problem I was speaking of above.

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44. Comment #175029 by fides_et_ratio on May 4, 2008 at 8:09 am

27. Comment #174889 by Frankus1122 on May 3, 2008 at 6:24 pm

A much more balanced approach is taken by many Christians. These approaches don't seem to gain much coverage in the athiest world. I suspect this is because it doesn't suit your purpose. The nonsensical cartoon above enables many athiests to indulge in an orgy of self-righteousness, justified anger, and various other methods of ego inflating exercises. Shame that.

Other Comments by fides_et_ratio

45. Comment #175039 by Cartomancer on May 4, 2008 at 8:34 am

A much more balanced approach is taken by many Christians. These approaches don't seem to gain much coverage in the athiest [sic] world.

But we're not in the business of pointing out where religion leaves science alone and keeps quietly to itself without interfering - we're in the business of pointing out where it oversteps the line and starts pretending in public that it has good answers to the questions that legitimate academic disciplines ask.

Do people who campaign against paedophile abuse spend some of their time congratulating people who aren't paedophiles for not abusing children? Do animal rights people go around patting people on the back who don't abuse animals? Do those who fight against holocaust deniers give prizes for people who admit that it happened?

We're here to address a problem, not write a sociological study of differing cultural prejudices. Given that 45% of americans have apparently been taken in by this kind of facile nonsense I think there is more than enough of a problem to tackle, don't you?

Also, I'm not sure what other worlds there are apart from the atheistic one. Our world is 100% atheistic because there are no gods in it anywhere! This is the world that everyone, whether they understand that fact or not, has to live in - and anything which damages their ability to do so cannot but be a negative imposition.

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46. Comment #175042 by Verylee on May 4, 2008 at 8:48 am

@ 46 by Fides

Hitler was a catholic, he wasn't a true scotsman.

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47. Comment #175043 by rodentfuel on May 4, 2008 at 9:02 am

The lake of fire! Noooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's the same stupid story every time, isn't it?

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48. Comment #175045 by Forti on May 4, 2008 at 9:07 am

[quote][quote]If this isn't a joke, and there are really people in the US who think like that... leave the fucking country. Please. You'll get free healthcare in the EU, and we have cookies. [/quote]


What? We don't want the US' Christian bigots over here, thanks! :P [/quote]

No, I meant you guys leave the country, not the bigots. You'd be most welcome. ;)

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49. Comment #175049 by Rawhard Dickins on May 4, 2008 at 9:16 am

Brilliant cartoonist! Can we get Jack on our side?

You can see how playing the pity card works so well with children. How could they possibly refuse to follow the whole Jesus thing!

Indoctrination at its worst!!

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50. Comment #175050 by Teratornis on May 4, 2008 at 9:19 am

Comment #174885 by Jack Rawlinson:

Teratornis: I should have excluded kids from that comment! I meant any adult that still takes Chick seriously isn't going to manage the whole growing up deal...

I agree that the older one gets, the more entrenched one's belief system usually becomes, regardless of what one happens to believe. Nonetheless, a few people in every age cohort change their minds.

Once upon a time, virtually the whole world was religious. Progress in science and philosophy led to a gradual chipping away of faith, with the process farthest along among intellectuals. Getting from a 99.9% religious population to some lower number almost certainly required there to have been quite a few adults who shrugged off their childhood religious indoctrination at some point.

Probably no two people react to a given argument in exactly the same way. An argument which appears irrefutable to one person might simply not "register" on another. But if that other person hears the argument enough times, and worded in enough different ways, eventually it might "click."

It would be interesting if we could understand the neurological basis of this flash of insight. Then we could approach religion as a straightforward debugging problem.

The fact that humans are cognitively diverse and slow to change their minds might not be entirely bad. It might slightly reduce the chances for one single compelling bad idea to sweep through an entire population and get them all to do something suicidal.

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