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Monday, May 5, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version Print | Comments |

Document Losing Our Spines to Save Our Necks

by Sam Harris

Reposted from:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sam-harris/losing-our-spines-to-save_b_100132.html

Geert Wilders, conservative Dutch politician and provocateur, has become the latest projectile in the world's most important culture war: the zero-sum conflict between civil society and traditional Islam. Wilders, who lives under perpetual armed guard due to death threats, recently released a 15 minute film entitled Fitna ("strife" in Arabic) over the internet. The film has been deemed offensive because it juxtaposes images of Muslim violence with passages from the Qur'an. Given that the perpetrators of such violence regularly cite these same passages as justification for their actions, merely depicting this connection in a film would seem uncontroversial. Controversial or not, one surely would expect politicians and journalists in every free society to strenuously defend Wilders' right to make such a film. But then one would be living on another planet, a planet where people do not happily repudiate their most basic freedoms in the name of "religious sensitivity."

Witness the free world's response to Fitna: The Dutch government sought to ban the film outright, and European Union foreign ministers publicly condemned it, as did UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon. Dutch television refused to air Fitna unedited. When Wilders declared his intention to release the film over the internet, his U.S. web-host, Network Solutions, took his website offline.

Into the breach stepped Liveleak, a British video-sharing website, which finally aired the film on March 27th. It received over 3 million views in the first 24 hours. The next day, however, Liveleak removed Fitna from its servers, having been terrorized into self-censorship by threats to its staff. But the film had spread too far on the internet to be suppressed (and Liveleak, after taking further security measures, has since reinstated it on its site as well).

Of course, there were immediate calls for a boycott of Dutch products throughout the Muslim world. In response, Dutch corporations placed ads in countries like Indonesia, denouncing the film in self-defense. Several Muslim countries blocked YouTube and other video-sharing sites in an effort to keep Wilders' blasphemy from penetrating the minds of their citizens. There have also been isolated protests and attacks on embassies, and ubiquitous demands for Wilders' murder. In Afghanistan, women in burqas could be seen burning the Dutch flag; the Taliban carried out at least two revenge attacks on Dutch troops, resulting in five Dutch casualties; and security concerns have caused the Netherlands to close its embassy in Kabul. It must be said, however, that nothing has yet occurred to rival the ferocious response to the Danish cartoons.

Meanwhile Kurt Westergaard, one of the Danish cartoonists, threatened to sue Wilders for copyright infringement, as Wilders used his drawing of a bomb-laden Muhammad without permission. Westergaard has lived in hiding since 2006 due to death threats of his own, so the Danish Union of Journalists volunteered to file this lawsuit on his behalf. Admittedly, there is something amusing about one hunted man, unable to venture out in public for fear of being killed by religious lunatics, threatening to sue another man in the same predicament over a copyright violation. But it is understandable that Westergaard wouldn't want to be repeatedly hurled at the enemy without his consent. Westergaard is an extraordinarily courageous man whose life has been ruined both by religious fanaticism and the free world's submission to it. In February, the Danish government arrested three Muslims who seemed poised to murder him. Other Danes unfortunate enough to have been born with the name "Kurt Westergaard" have had to take steps to escape being murdered in his place. (Wilder's has since removed the cartoon from the official version of Fitna.)

Wilders, like Westergaard and the other Danish cartoonists, has been widely vilified for "seeking to inflame" the Muslim community. Even if this had been his intention, this criticism represents an almost supernatural coincidence of moral blindness and political imprudence. The point is not (and will never be) that some free person spoke, or wrote, or illustrated in such a manner as to inflame the Muslim community. The point is that only the Muslim community is combustible in this way. The controversy over Fitna, like all such controversies, renders one fact about our world especially salient: Muslims appear to be far more concerned about perceived slights to their religion than about the atrocities committed daily in its name. Our accommodation of this psychopathic skewing of priorities has, more and more, taken the form of craven and blinkered acquiescence.

There is an uncanny irony here that many have noticed. The position of the Muslim community in the face of all provocations seems to be: Islam is a religion of peace, and if you say that it isn't, we will kill you. Of course, the truth is often more nuanced, but this is about as nuanced as it ever gets: Islam is a religion of peace, and if you say that it isn't, we peaceful Muslims cannot be held responsible for what our less peaceful brothers and sisters do. When they burn your embassies or kidnap and slaughter your journalists, know that we will hold you primarily responsible and will spend the bulk of our energies criticizing you for "racism" and "Islamophobia."

Our capitulations in the face of these threats have had what is often called "a chilling effect" on our exercise of free speech. I have, in my own small way, experienced this chill first hand. First, and most important, my friend and colleague Ayaan Hirsi Ali happens to be among the hunted. Because of the failure of Western governments to make it safe for people to speak openly about the problem of Islam, I and others must raise a mountain of private funds to help pay for her round-the-clock protection. The problem is not, as is often alleged, that governments cannot afford to protect every person who speaks out against Muslim intolerance. The problem is that so few people do speak out. If there were ten thousand Ayaan Hirsi Ali's, the risk to each would be radically reduced.

As for infringements of my own speech, my first book, The End of Faith, almost did not get published for fear of offending the sensibilities of (probably non-reading) religious fanatics. W.W. Norton, which did publish the book, was widely seen as taking a risk--one probably attenuated by the fact that I am an equal-opportunity offender critical of all religious faith. However, when it came time to make final edits to the galleys of The End of Faith, many of the people I had thanked by name in my acknowledgments (including my agent at the time and my editor at Norton) independently asked to have their names removed from the book. Their concerns were explicitly for their personal safety. Given our shamefully ineffectual response to the fatwa against Salman Rushdie, their concerns were perfectly understandable.

Nature, arguably the most influential scientific journal on the planet, recently published a lengthy whitewash of Islam (Z. Sardar "Beyond the troubled relationship." Nature 448, 131-133; 2007). The author began, as though atop a minaret, by simply declaring the religion of Islam to be "intrinsically rational." He then went on to argue, amid a highly idiosyncratic reading of history and theology, that this rational religion's current wallowing in the violent depths of unreason can be fully ascribed to the legacy of colonialism. After some negotiation, Nature also agreed to publish a brief response from me. What readers of my letter to the editor could not know, however, was that it was only published after perfectly factual sentences deemed offensive to Islam were expunged. I understood the editors' concerns at the time: not only did they have Britain's suffocating libel laws to worry about, but Muslim physicians and engineers in the UK had just revealed a penchant for suicide bombing. I was grateful that Nature published my letter at all.

In a thrillingly ironic turn of events, a shorter version of the very essay you are now reading was originally commissioned by the opinion page of Washington Post and then rejected because it was deemed too critical of Islam. Please note, this essay was destined for the opinion page of the paper, which had solicited my response to the controversy over Wilders' film. The irony of its rejection seemed entirely lost on the Post, which responded to my subsequent expression of amazement by offering to pay me a "kill fee." I declined.

I could list other examples of encounters with editors and publishers, as can many writers, all illustrating a single fact: While it remains taboo to criticize religious faith in general, it is considered especially unwise to criticize Islam. Only Muslims hound and hunt and murder their apostates, infidels, and critics in the 21st century. There are, to be sure, reasons why this is so. Some of these reasons have to do with accidents of history and geopolitics, but others can be directly traced to doctrines sanctifying violence which are unique to Islam.

A point of comparison: The controversy of over Fitna was immediately followed by ubiquitous media coverage of a scandal involving the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS). In Texas, police raided an FLDS compound and took hundreds of women and underage girls into custody to spare them the continued, sacramental predations of their menfolk. While mainstream Mormonism is now granted the deference accorded to all major religions in the United States, its fundamentalist branch, with its commitment to polygamy, spousal abuse, forced marriage, child brides (and, therefore, child rape) is often portrayed in the press as a depraved cult. But one could easily argue that Islam, considered both in the aggregate and in terms of its most negative instances, is far more despicable than fundamentalist Mormonism. The Muslim world can match the FLDS sin for sin--Muslims commonly practice polygamy, forced-marriage (often between underage girls and older men), and wife-beating--but add to these indiscretions the surpassing evils of honor killing, female "circumcision," widespread support for terrorism, a pornographic fascination with videos showing the butchery of infidels and apostates, a vibrant form of anti-semitism that is explicitly genocidal in its aspirations, and an aptitude for producing children's books and television programs which exalt suicide-bombing and depict Jews as "apes and pigs."

Any honest comparison between these two faiths reveals a bizarre double standard in our treatment of religion. We can openly celebrate the marginalization of FLDS men and the rescue of their women and children. But, leaving aside the practical and political impossibility of doing so, could we even allow ourselves to contemplate liberating the women and children of traditional Islam?

What about all the civil, freedom-loving, moderate Muslims who are just as appalled by Muslim intolerance as I am? No doubt millions of men and women fit this description, but vocal moderates are very difficult to find. Wherever "moderate Islam" does announce itself, one often discovers frank Islamism lurking just a euphemism or two beneath the surface. The subterfuge is rendered all but invisible to the general public by political correctness, wishful thinking, and "white guilt." This is where we find sinister people successfully posing as "moderates"--people like Tariq Ramadan who, while lionized by liberal Europeans as the epitome of cosmopolitan Islam, cannot bring himself to actually condemn honor killing in round terms (he recommends that the practice be suspended, pending further study). Moderation is also attributed to groups like the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), an Islamist public relations firm posing as a civil-rights lobby.

Even when one finds a true voice of Muslim moderation, it often seems distinguished by a lack of candor above all things. Take someone like Reza Aslan, author of No God But God: I debated Aslan for Book TV on the general subject of religion and modernity. During the course of our debate, I had a few unkind words to say about the Muslim Brotherhood. While admitting that there is a difference between the Brotherhood and a full-blown jihadist organization like al Qaeda, I said that their ideology was "close enough" to be of concern. Aslan responded with a grandiose, ad hominem attack saying, "that indicates the profound unsophistication that you have about this region. You could not be more wrong" and claiming that I'd taken my view of Islam from "Fox News." Such maneuvers, coming from a polished, Iranian-born scholar of Islam carry the weight of authority, especially in front of an audience of people who are desperate to believe the threat of Islam has been grossly exaggerated. The problem, however, is that the credo of the Muslim Brotherhood actually happens to be "Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. The Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope."

The connection between the doctrine of Islam and Islamist violence is simply not open to dispute. It's not that critics of religion like myself speculate that such a connection might exist: the point is that Islamists themselves acknowledge and demonstrate this connection at every opportunity and to deny it is to retreat within a fantasy world of political correctness and religious apology. Many western scholars, like the much admired Karen Armstrong, appear to live in just such a place. All of their talk about how benign Islam "really" is, and about how the problem of fundamentalism exists in all religions, only obfuscates what may be the most pressing issue of our time: Islam, as it is currently understood and practiced by vast numbers of the world's Muslims, is antithetical to civil society. A recent poll showed that thirty-six percent of British Muslims (ages 16-24) believe that a person should be killed for leaving the faith. Sixty-eight percent of British Muslims feel that their neighbors who insult Islam should be arrested and prosecuted, and seventy-eight percent think that the Danish cartoonists should have been brought to justice. And these are British Muslims.

Occasionally, however, a lone voice can be heard acknowledging the obvious. Hassan Butt wrote in the Guardian:

When I was still a member of what is probably best termed the British Jihadi Network, a series of semi-autonomous British Muslim terrorist groups linked by a single ideology, I remember how we used to laugh in celebration whenever people on TV proclaimed that the sole cause for Islamic acts of terror like 9/11, the Madrid bombings and 7/7 was Western foreign policy. By blaming the government for our actions, those who pushed the 'Blair's bombs' line did our propaganda work for us. More important, they also helped to draw away any critical examination from the real engine of our violence: Islamic theology.


It is astounding how infrequently one hears such candor among the public voices of "moderate" Islam. This is what we owe the true moderates of the Muslim world: we must hold their co-religionists to the same standards of civility and reasonableness that we take for granted in all other people. Only our willingness to openly criticize Islam for its all-too-obvious failings can make it safe for Muslim moderates, secularists, apostates--and, indeed, women--to rise up and reform their faith.

And if anyone in this debate can be credibly accused of racism, it is the western apologists and "multiculturalists" who deem Arabs and Muslims too immature to shoulder the responsibilities of civil discourse. As Ayaan Hirsi Ali has pointed out, there is a calamitous form of "affirmative action" at work, especially in western Europe, where Muslim immigrants are systematically exempted from western standards of moral order in the name of paying "respect" to the glaring pathologies in their culture. Hirsi Ali has also observed that there is a quasi-racist double-think on display whenever western powers trumpet that "Islam is peace," all the while taking heroic measures to guard against the next occasion when the barbarians run amok in response to a film, cartoon, opera, novel, beauty pageant--or the mere naming of a teddy bear.

Have you seen the Danish cartoons that so roiled the Muslim world? Probably not, as their publication was suppressed by almost every newspaper, magazine, and television station in the United States. Given their volcanic reception--hundreds of thousands of Muslims rioted, hundreds of people were killed--their sheer banality should have rendered these drawings extraordinarily newsworthy. One magazine which did print them, Free Inquiry (for which I am proud to have written), had its stock banned from every Borders and Waldenbooks in the country. These are precisely the sorts of capitulations that we must avoid in the future.

The lesson we should draw from the Fitna controversy is that we need more criticism of Islam, not less. Let it come down in such torrents that not even the most deluded Islamist could conceive of containing it. As Ibn Warraq, author of the revelatory Why I Am Not a Muslim, said in response to recent events:

It is perverse for the western media to lament the lack of an Islamic reformation and willfully ignore works such as Wilders' film, Fitna. How do they think reformation will come about if not with criticism? There is no such right as 'the right not to be offended; indeed, I am deeply offended by the contents of the Koran, with its overt hatred of Christians, Jews, apostates, non-believers, homosexuals but cannot demand its suppression.

It is time we recognized that those who claim the "right not to be offended" have also announced their hatred of civil society.

Watch Fitna on Google Video

Comments 1 - 50 of 503 |

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1. Comment #175332 by lozzer on May 5, 2008 at 8:59 am

 avatarBrilliant article Mr Harris :D

It's very sad how our western governments keep backing down willfully to such acts violence and intimidation(all justified by ancient fiction)

I do hope one day people will wake up and have the courage to protest publicly in their thousands.
As everyone has observed recently,the majority do tend to be listened to.

Other Comments by lozzer

2. Comment #175337 by Colwyn Abernathy on May 5, 2008 at 9:11 am

 avatar
Wilders, who lives under perpetual armed guard due to death threats, recently released a 15 minute film entitled Fitna ("strife" in Arabic) over the internet.


"Seriously, what's wrong with a strongly worded letter to "The Times"? -Marcus Brigstocke

EDIT: Somebody needs to close off their italics tag...Sam? Hellooooo?

EDIT: EDIT: Much better, thank you. :)

Other Comments by Colwyn Abernathy

3. Comment #175338 by steve8282 on May 5, 2008 at 9:14 am

Thank you Sam,


I wonder how long it will be before we are contributing to the Sam Harris protection fund,

Other Comments by steve8282

4. Comment #175340 by rod-the-farmer on May 5, 2008 at 9:27 am

 avatarOK, Sam, count me in. What do you suggest we rationalist foot soldiers do to help ?

Other Comments by rod-the-farmer

5. Comment #175341 by Colwyn Abernathy on May 5, 2008 at 9:27 am

 avatar
As everyone has observed recently,the majority do tend to be listened to.


Aye, but more often than not, it takes the voices of a minority crying, "OI! 'Ang on a mo'!" to get the dialogue started, and this is what courage and honesty demand we do.

Other Comments by Colwyn Abernathy

6. Comment #175342 by Colwyn Abernathy on May 5, 2008 at 9:29 am

 avatar
There is no such right as 'the right not to be offended; indeed, I am deeply offended by the contents of the Koran, with its overt hatred of Christians, Jews, apostates, non-believers, homosexuals but cannot demand its suppression.


Not only cannot, but WILL not. Who's up for banning mustard? WHO'S WITH ME? Nobody? Good, it'd be a fool's errand to try, but it may enlighten a few minds.

Other Comments by Colwyn Abernathy

7. Comment #175343 by rod-the-farmer on May 5, 2008 at 9:32 am

 avatarAnd another thing....next pay I will visit my local bookstore and purchase one of your books. Take THAT, you cowardly publishers.

Other Comments by rod-the-farmer

8. Comment #175345 by Naug on May 5, 2008 at 9:35 am

Sam Harris wrote:

Meanwhile Kurt Westergaard, one of the Danish cartoonists, threatened to sue Wilders for copyright infringement, as Wilders used his drawing of a bomb-laden Muhammad without permission. Westergaard has lived in hiding since 2006 due to death threats of his own, so the Danish Union of Journalists volunteered to file this lawsuit on his behalf. Admittedly, there is something amusing about one hunted man, unable to venture out in public for fear of being killed by religious lunatics, threatening to sue another man in the same predicament over a copyright violation.

---------

I would believe that this is because Gerhart Wilders is a right wing quasi racist nutjob and a copyright infringement was probably the only way Westergaad had to kick his shins. Everything is not about how infected religious Islam is at the moment. I would be pissed too if someone used my work without asking me.

Wilders is a moron and the film Fitna is piece of sad propaganda. If you've seen it just consider that it is in fact a 15 minute long appeal to emotion, no way make an argument. Actually, the hallmark of a bad one. Had it been 1 hour longer we might have called it Repelled - No Islam allowed.

But yes it is a travesty that no one wanted to show it due to religious sensibilities and even more so that they recanted it due to threats from the other idiots who wanted the blood of anyone who would publish it on the net.

Other Comments by Naug

9. Comment #175347 by crafty on May 5, 2008 at 9:36 am

 avatarTo Steve8282- Good point, i'm sure he's closer to needing one each time he confronts the death-cult of Islam. If it comes down to it, I'd gladly contribute to a Sam Harris protection fund if he keeps on writing important essays like the one above.

Great article, thanks Sam

Other Comments by crafty

10. Comment #175348 by mordacious1 on May 5, 2008 at 9:40 am

 avatarIslam reacts the most violently to criticism because they don't have the subtle grip on the western media that christians do. If one were to criticize christianity in America on a TV show, then the christians would organize an economic boycott of all advertisers and the network, or paper running the piece. Muslims are more violent, but christians have at least the same power in the States to mute religious criticism. Sure Fox might have Richard on, but they have some right winger there to shake his head or laugh or whatever to show that they don't support what is being said.

This being said, this is an excellent article and I hope Sam can keep exposing the truth for a long time. The most important part of the article is that if the media, authors, producers, etc. would just blitz islam, they'd be running around in circles trying to figure out who should die first. It is a sad world we live in, it makes one appreciate the internet more than ever.

Other Comments by mordacious1

11. Comment #175349 by d_presley22 on May 5, 2008 at 9:42 am

The mainstream media, is having a difficult time understanding why more and more Americans are buying less newspapers and watching less network news.

The reason is this article, and others just like it. People are unable to find unedited thought and expression in these older mediums, so naturally we are turning to a medium that will give an honest appraisement of that individual's thoughts about any given situation.

So THANK YOU Sam Harris. THANK YOU Huffington Post. Of course, THANK YOU Richarddawkins.net!!!
We really do appreciate it.

Other Comments by d_presley22

12. Comment #175350 by HeyBishop on May 5, 2008 at 9:42 am

 avatarThis article reads like a science fiction story. It all sounds too fantastic to be real.

Other Comments by HeyBishop

13. Comment #175351 by kaiserkriss on May 5, 2008 at 9:42 am

 avatar
snip...I am deeply offended by the contents of the Koran, with its overt hatred of Christians, Jews, apostates, non-believers, homosexuals but cannot demand its suppression.


While I would tend to agree with Sam on this, the unfortunate truth is the media, political correctness of politicians themselves "preach" the moral superiority of the western world, while not realizing their worlds are burning.

This is history repeating itself, Nero, Rome anyone? jcw

Other Comments by kaiserkriss

14. Comment #175352 by irate_atheist on May 5, 2008 at 9:44 am

 avatarStand and deliver.

Your freedom or your life.

Other Comments by irate_atheist

15. Comment #175355 by al-rawandi on May 5, 2008 at 9:53 am

 avatarnanaj,







Are you Salman Rushdie under an assumed name?


If you wouldn't mind, can you tell me about this fatwa?

Other Comments by al-rawandi

16. Comment #175356 by healthphysicist on May 5, 2008 at 9:54 am

This video response to Fitna, certainly makes thing interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpiccERJaFk

Other Comments by healthphysicist

17. Comment #175359 by riki on May 5, 2008 at 9:58 am

 avatar"Losing Our Spines to Save Our Necks" great title btw.

Other Comments by riki

18. Comment #175360 by Logicel on May 5, 2008 at 10:00 am

 avatarIn a dysfunctional family, members enable each other's dysfunction. I consider world society to be dysfunctional in the same regard--we enable each other to stay stuck, because it is familiar ground.

So-called religious moderates do not decry the horror that is Islam because upon scratching the surface of a moderate, you will find someone who has embraced fully the dangerous idea that faith, that is, belief without evidence is a virtue (and not the vice that it is), and therefore do not want to rock their own boats, very much like dysfunctional family members who have gotten so used to playing certain roles, that they are lost without their precious role-playing.

Dysfunctional family members will change when the pain becomes too severe; but in order for that pain to be felt, the alcoholic, the binger/purger, the addicted shoplifter, etc., must not be coddled by their so-called functional family members.

The most important aspect of the 'new atheism' is this 'strident' aspect of it--often during family therapy the dysfunctional members will decry, oh, you are being so harsh, let them have their little weaknesses, etc.

Dysfunction is one helluva hard vicious cycle to break, but it is possible.

Other Comments by Logicel

19. Comment #175361 by Hasan on May 5, 2008 at 10:04 am

While I am sure that it would be better for us if views of scholars like Reza Aslan were to become more common among Musilms, I am inclined to doubt the sincerity and honesty of scholars like him who like to defend their ideas by plunging deep into oblivion and obfuscation of though. In fact, REza Aslan states quite clearly in the prologue to his book 'No God but God' that there is no higher calling than to defend one's faith. It dilutes the credibility of his scholarship deeply in my view and one cannot expect an objective inquiry from him given this.

Aside from that, in my personal interactions with muslims, I do like to point out clearly and unequivocally that it is the right of anyone who wants to criticize islam to do so. If said with enough conviction and strength of argument, it does have an observable effect though I doubt sufficient enough to end their craving for undeserved respect. But nevertheless, they do in a way learn to keep their fury or anger to themselves rather than spreading it. And this is what is needed. Of course, it would not do any good to say that to a really rigid hate-mongering mullah, but it does have an effect on others.

Other Comments by Hasan

20. Comment #175365 by Frankus1122 on May 5, 2008 at 10:11 am

 avatarSam Harris has such a lucid way of expressing himself. There are some exquisite lines in this article.

Here is a favourite:


Islam, as it is currently understood and practiced by vast numbers of the world's Muslims, is antithetical to civil society.


Other Comments by Frankus1122

21. Comment #175366 by SteveN on May 5, 2008 at 10:11 am

 avatarExcellent article by Sam, as usual. It did strike me that many of the arguments used and points raised by Sam have already been used by Pat Condell in his excellent rants. Of course, Sam is a lot more restrained and eloquent in his style - but Pat is much, much funnier!

Other Comments by SteveN

22. Comment #175367 by kaiserkriss on May 5, 2008 at 10:14 am

 avatarmordacious :

Your comment about the more subtle control of the media by Christians in the US for fear of consumer back lash is undoubtably true, especially the visual media, TV, films, but could not be applied to the UK for example with the BBC.

The BBC is a publicly funded organization, that runs on a spineless politically correct philosophy, supported by its political masters.

It should be up to governments to do the right thing, rather than pander to the hurt feelings of a vocal and visible "potential" voting block.

The unfortunate thing is religious threats are only recognized by vocal lunatic fringes, often associated with right wing racists.

To make an impact, more progressive politicians have to come forward and call out any religious / fanatics or cults, regardless of their faith.jcw

Other Comments by kaiserkriss

23. Comment #175368 by Floris Meijer on May 5, 2008 at 10:17 am

 avatar"the Taliban carried out at least two revenge attacks on Dutch troops, resulting in five Dutch casualties"

These casualties were the consequence of road-bombings. These bombs are planted sometimes months before and have no clear connection with the movie. Bombs are already being planted since NATO is in that province. The deaths of these brave servicemen after the release of that movie is therefor in all likelyhood not linked to that movie.

Other Comments by Floris Meijer

24. Comment #175369 by al-rawandi on May 5, 2008 at 10:18 am

 avatarkaiserkriss,





It should be up to governments to do the right thing, rather than pander to the hurt feelings of a vocal and visible "potential" voting block.





One of the problems of democracy.


Here is a solution. Instead of everyone getting one vote, everyone gets one vote for every IQ point they possess. Thus the smarter people in society will have a greater say, per person than the dip shits. Although, put enough 56 IQ's together and you have another problem.

But this may be a good start.


Any takers on my brilliant solution?

Other Comments by al-rawandi

25. Comment #175370 by Border Collie on May 5, 2008 at 10:18 am

 avatarA week or two ago, I emailed the "Fitna" link to everyone I know, including this website. Thank you, Mr. Harris!

Other Comments by Border Collie

26. Comment #175373 by kaiserkriss on May 5, 2008 at 10:23 am

 avatarAl, AS I've indicated in other treads, I'm very unhappy with the way we STILL govern ourselves in the 21st Century, but don't have a solution.

While your idea has merit, the measurement of IQ itself is open to criticism, since it is such a cultural, age related measurement. We somehow have to get away from being governed by the lowest common denominator principle. jcw

Other Comments by kaiserkriss

27. Comment #175374 by clodhopper on May 5, 2008 at 10:24 am

 avatar
The lesson we should draw from the Fitna controversy is that we need more criticism of Islam, not less. Let it come down in such torrents that not even the most deluded Islamist could conceive of containing it.


Yes, but where is this torrent of criticism going to come from? There is a fair bit in the media in the UK; fairly tentative, but there non the less. That isn't really going to do much though is it?

Other Comments by clodhopper

28. Comment #175375 by Star Spangled Eagle on May 5, 2008 at 10:26 am

 avatar
Any takers on my brilliant solution?


Yes, with one alteration, IQ's under 60 get only one vote.

Other Comments by Star Spangled Eagle

29. Comment #175376 by Cartomancer on May 5, 2008 at 10:26 am

 avatar
Here is a solution. Instead of everyone getting one vote, everyone gets one vote for every IQ point they possess
We could adjust it from the other end too, by multiplying the number of votes a candidate gets by a percentage equal to their IQ score. That way it becomes much easier to elect intelligent candidates as well as those who are popular with the intelligent voter.

Other Comments by Cartomancer

30. Comment #175378 by Peacebeuponme on May 5, 2008 at 10:29 am

Cartomancer
We could adjust it from the other end too, by increasing the number of votes a candidate gets by a percentage equal to how far their IQ exceeds 100 (And reducing it likewise if their IQ is below). That way it becomes much easier to elect intelligent candidates as well as those who are popular with the intelligent voter.
What a horrible thought, even if you were joking.

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme

31. Comment #175379 by al-rawandi on May 5, 2008 at 10:30 am

 avatarNanaj,





I am sorry to hear that. Islam lends itself to use by thugs, being that it was created by a thug. The only problem is that it also lends itself to the credulous and stupid, and they far outnumber the rest of us, and thus Islam spreads, like a tumorous growth.

An even greater problem, the Muslims breed like rabbits, especially in Europe where they can count on government handouts. Stupid people in general have more kids. The only hope for rationalists is to outbreed them, or start convincing them. Tough spot.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

32. Comment #175380 by Cartomancer on May 5, 2008 at 10:30 am

 avatarOf course I was bloody joking!

Other Comments by Cartomancer

33. Comment #175381 by Frankus1122 on May 5, 2008 at 10:31 am

 avatar

Although, put enough 56 IQ's together and you have another problem.



You have, of course, seen the opening of
Idiocracy.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=upyewL0oaWA

Other Comments by Frankus1122

34. Comment #175382 by Peacebeuponme on May 5, 2008 at 10:32 am

I know. It just not a nice read!

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme

35. Comment #175383 by al-rawandi on May 5, 2008 at 10:33 am

 avatarEagle, Cartomancer,




I love both of those suggestions.



I had a foreign friend (from a non-democratic monarchy) say to me... "Why do you let everyone vote, seems to me, most are fucking morons." I didn't have a good answer, and I began thinking of my current plan.


Carto, great idea weighting the votes in that way. But how about throwing in a test for public office.... Constitution questions (in the US), basic world history, geography, science, and logical thinking.

Of course the Republican party would be up shit creek, but whatever. So Bush couldn't have gotten elected thinking Turkey was strictly a bird.

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36. Comment #175385 by al-rawandi on May 5, 2008 at 10:34 am

 avatarCarto,







You were joking? Now I am disappointed. I was hoping we exclude idiots altogether.

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37. Comment #175387 by Cartomancer on May 5, 2008 at 10:34 am

 avatarIdiocracy eh? Going back to the original Greek that would technically be the exercise of power by those who do not participate in the political process. Interesting.

I guess we could do that by holding elections and then appointing the people who lost to power instead of those who won. Oh, wait, sorry, you tried that in the US ten years ago didn't you?

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38. Comment #175388 by Enlightenme.. on May 5, 2008 at 10:35 am

 avatarThis all started a long time ago, when the UK started handing out Lordships and Knighthoods to the likes of Lord Ahmed and Sir Iqbal Sacranie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazir_Ahmed,_Baron_Ahmed


On June 19th 2007 Lord Ahmed criticised the honouring of Salman Rushdie with a knighthood because of what Lord Ahmed saw as Rushdie's offensiveness to Islam.[7] He was reported to have said, "It's hypocrisy by Tony Blair who two weeks ago was talking about building bridges to mainstream Muslims, and then he's honouring a man who has insulted the British public and been divisive in community relations."[8] "This man not only provoked violence around the world because of his writings, but there were many people who were killed around the world. Forgiving and forgetting is one thing, but honouring the man who has blood on his hands, sort of, because of what he did, I think is going a bit too far." He also said on BBC Radio 4's PM programme that he had been appalled by the award to a man he accused of having 'blood on his hands'.[9][7] In an interview with Le Figaro, Lord Ahmed reportedly said: "What would one say if the Saudi or Afghan governments honoured the martyrs of the September 11 attacks on the United States?" .[10]


That's "martyrs" in Lord Ahmed's quotes by the way, which can be read.. ambiguously... of course.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iqbal_Sacranie

During the Satanic Verses controversy, Sacranie was noted to have commented in regard to the Salman Rushdie, "Death, perhaps, is a bit too easy for him… his mind must be tormented for the rest of his life unless he asks for forgiveness to Almighty Allah."

..knighthood in the 2005 Queen's Birthday Honours for "services to the Muslim community, to charities and to community relations."
He said "that bringing in 'gay marriage' did "not augur well" for building the foundations of society" [sic ; Wikipedia entry has scare quotes and quote quotes inside quotes!]

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39. Comment #175390 by squinky on May 5, 2008 at 10:36 am

 avatarSam is the best!
I can't wait until he publishes his next article in Nature showing the fMRI comparison of 3 brains: normal (left), on religion (center), and on crack cocaine (right) where the center and right images are superimposable.

Conclusions: "This is your brain (Fig. 1a), this is your brain on religion (Fig. 1c)." Q.E.D. bitches.

Other Comments by squinky

40. Comment #175391 by MarcCountry on May 5, 2008 at 10:37 am

 avatar
"All of their talk about... how the problem of fundamentalism exists in all religions, only obfuscates what may be the most pressing issue of our time..."


Of course, just because it MAY obfuscate this issue, doesn't mean it isn't true.

While I agree entirely with the point and spirit of Sam's article, it is nonetheless true that the problem of fundamentalism exists in all religions.

Islam certainly leads the way, though. Last year, I had artworks censored by the Mayor of my city because they allegedly "offended the religious sensibilities" of some local Hindus. I was sad to hear the Hindus jealously suggest that I wouldn't "do this to Muslims." It was clear that they envied the power that Muslims have to cow the world into silence and acquiescence.

(incidentally, there was nothing actually offensive about my works: the objections were spun out of whole cloth... but, the Hindus got their way, and a very clear message was sent: religion is off-limits to artists in Edmonton, unless you get a clerical O.K first.)

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41. Comment #175392 by al-rawandi on May 5, 2008 at 10:39 am

 avatarCarto,





Actually what happened was that the US Supreme Court over-ruled the Florida Supreme Court. The Florida Supreme Court had ruled that the Attorney General of the state, Catherine Harris, could not block recounts. The US Supreme Court said (incorrectly) that the Florida court had no ability to over-rule the legislature in this fashion (which of course, is precisely the job of the state legislature). *EDIT* All this under the "Equal Protection Clause" of the Constitution, which was quite ridiculous if one applied any critical thinking whatsoever.

However, based on the initial vote, Bush won the votes, and our electoral college voted as such. But it was a "hand over" as you so subtley suggest.

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42. Comment #175393 by epeeist on May 5, 2008 at 10:40 am

 avatarComment #175369 by al-rawandi
Although, put enough 56 IQ's together and you have another problem.
As the fat yellow man said - "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers".

Other Comments by epeeist

43. Comment #175397 by Fanusi Khiyal on May 5, 2008 at 10:42 am

And on the subject of the abject dhimmitude of certain people in the West (they have forfeited the title of Westerners) try reading through the comments on the HuffingtonPost.

Someone please explain to me what the hell has happened to the left? It used to be glorious. It had names like Victor Hugo, George Orwell, Oriana Fallaci - now it seems to be a byword for the total abandonment of civilization in the face of Islam.

A gross generalization I know, but still... Just look at those comments.

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44. Comment #175398 by al-rawandi on May 5, 2008 at 10:45 am

 avatarFanusi,








Why I don't use the term "liberal" to refer to myself. It used to be about liberty, about values that could be shared by all people. It is now about not insulting minorities with the truth.

You have intellectual hitmen like:

Al Sharpton
Jesse Jackson
CAIR
ADL
AIPAC

and such to stifle reasonable (or even unreasonable) commentary against the minority groups.

Liberalism lost its spine for sure.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

45. Comment #175401 by Fanusi Khiyal on May 5, 2008 at 10:49 am

*chuckles* Given our acrimonious initial encounter, it's interesting to see us agree on stuff, eh al?

Other Comments by Fanusi Khiyal

46. Comment #175402 by al-rawandi on May 5, 2008 at 10:53 am

 avatarFanusi,




I didn't disagree with your assessment of Islam.


I disagree with how many Muslims are actually sick enough to believe in it 100% and act it out. However, my assumption on how many are sick enough to act out Islam in such a way has been adjusted north ward after several months of non-stop disgust.

Anyhow, I don't agree to military encounters with these people at every turn. But I also don't believe in labelling their religion peaceful either.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

47. Comment #175403 by Silent.Bomber on May 5, 2008 at 10:54 am

 avatarGood article.

Other Comments by Silent.Bomber

48. Comment #175406 by MaxD on May 5, 2008 at 10:59 am

 avatarI think the thing that is most interestin about the way all the religious folk meet the strong critique, it the continual retreat into obscurantism (when the critique is about one's own personal religion anyway).
There is the continual redefinition, or the religious metaphor, or the well somethings we will just never ever know, blah, blah. That is at least the tack of the so-called moderate.
Its very bizarre, and I cannot imagine a more unfulfiling way to live.

Other Comments by MaxD

49. Comment #175411 by MaxD on May 5, 2008 at 11:06 am

 avatarMarcCountry,
You said:
Of course, just because it MAY obfuscate this issue, doesn't mean it isn't true.

While I agree entirely with the point and spirit of Sam's article, it is nonetheless true that the problem of fundamentalism exists in all religions.


I think you may have missed the point of why it is so often used. In these debates and rebuttals, it is used as the classic misdirection.

Sam Harris or someone says, in the Islamic doctrine the Koran says wicked proposition x. Massive amounts of Muslims follow this x. What is the Response?

Well christians have a variety of x's, so I don't know why you'd pick on Islam. (This trick isn't wholly found in Islamic apologetics, it is found everywhere brains have been checked at the alter). But whenever it is used (and I've heard it more from islamists, it completely dances around the issue, and often is followed by some appeal to post-modernist cultural relativism. "Well that is their culuture" reasoning and "who are you to judge?"

You are right of course that fundamentalism is a problem in most all religions.

Other Comments by MaxD

50. Comment #175412 by epeeist on May 5, 2008 at 11:17 am

 avatarComment #175410 by babrock
Sam gets a rather large amount of critisism for racism, for taking positions just like what he is taking here.
There seems be a standard practice by certain Muslims of equivocating between religion and race. Certainly in the UK this may be something to do with the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_and_Religious_Hatred_Act_2006). While prosecutions have been brought for racial hatred I am not aware of any for religious hatred.

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