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Trouble ahead for science
by Kenneth R. Miller
Reposted from:
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/05/08/trouble_ahead_for_science/
AMERICAN science is in trouble, and if you wonder why, just go to the movies. Popular culture is gradually turning against science, and Ben Stein's new movie, "Expelled," is helping to push it along.
"Intelligent Design," the relabeled, repackaged form of American creationism, has always had a problem. It just can't seem to produce any evidence. To scientists, the reasons for this are obvious. To conservative Washington Post columnist Charles Krauthammer, Intelligent Design is nothing more than a "phony theory." No data, no science, no experiments, just an attempt to sneak a narrow set of religious views into US classrooms.
Advocates of Intelligent Design needed a story to explain why the idea has been a nonstarter within the scientific community, and Ben Stein has given it to them. The story line is that Intelligent Design advocates are persecuted and suppressed. "Expelled" tells of this terrible campaign against free expression, and mocks the pretensions of the closed-minded scientific elite supposedly behind it.
There are many things wrong with this movie. One example: Viewers are told that Dr. Richard Sternberg lost his job at the Smithsonian Institution because he edited a paper favorable to Intelligent Design. Wrong.
Sternberg wasn't even employed by the Smithsonian (he had no job to lose), and had resigned as journal editor six months before the paper was published. In fact, the irony is that neither Steinberg nor any of the other people featured as martyrs in "Expelled" lost jobs as a result of their advocacy of Intelligent Design, while many others who supported evolution have. In 2007, Chris Comer, the director of science education for Texas schools, was fired for having done nothing more than forwarding an e-mail announcing a pro-evolution seminar.
The movie also uses interviews with avowed atheists like Richard Dawkins, author of "The God Delusion," to argue that scientific establishment is vehemently anti-God. Never mind that 40 percent of the members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science profess belief in a personal God. Stein, avoiding these 50,000 people, tells viewers that "Darwinists" don't allow scientists to even think of God.
Puzzled, the editors of Scientific American asked Mark Mathis, the film's co-producer, why he and Stein didn't interview such people, like Francis Collins (head of the Human Genome Project), Francisco Ayala, or myself. Mathis cited me by name, saying "Ken Miller would have confused the film unnecessarily." In other words, showing a scientist who accepts both God and evolution would have confused their story line.
Despite these falsehoods, by far the film's most outlandish misrepresentation is its linkage of Darwin with the Holocaust. A concentration camp tour guide tells Stein that the Nazis were practicing "Darwinism," and that's that. Never mind those belt buckles proclaiming Gott mit uns (God is with us), the toxic anti-Semitism of Martin Luther, the ghettoes and murderous pogroms in Christian Europe centuries before Darwin's birth. No matter. It's all the fault of evolution.
Why is all this nonsense a threat to science? The reason is Stein's libelous conclusion that science is simply evil. In an April 21 interview on the Trinity Broadcast Network, Stein called the Nazi murder of children "horrifying beyond words." Indeed. But what led to such horrors? Stein explained: "that's where science in my opinion, this is just an opinion, that's where science leads you. Love of God and compassion and empathy leads you to a very glorious place. Science leads you to killing people."
According to Stein, science leads you to "killing people." Not to cures and vaccines, not to a deeper understanding of nature, not to wonders like computers and cellphones, and certainly not to a better life. Nope. Science is murder.
"Expelled" is a shoddy piece of propaganda that props up the failures of Intelligent Design by playing the victim card. It deceives its audiences, slanders the scientific community, and contributes mightily to a climate of hostility to science itself. Stein is doing nothing less than helping turn a generation of American youth away from science. If we actually come to believe that science leads to murder, then we deserve to lose world leadership in science. In that sense, the word "expelled" may have a different and more tragic connotation for our country than Stein intended.
Kenneth R. Miller, a biology professor at Brown University, is author of "Only a Theory - Evolution and the Battle for America's Soul," which will be published next month.
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/05/08/trouble_ahead_for_science/
AMERICAN science is in trouble, and if you wonder why, just go to the movies. Popular culture is gradually turning against science, and Ben Stein's new movie, "Expelled," is helping to push it along.
"Intelligent Design," the relabeled, repackaged form of American creationism, has always had a problem. It just can't seem to produce any evidence. To scientists, the reasons for this are obvious. To conservative Washington Post columnist Charles Krauthammer, Intelligent Design is nothing more than a "phony theory." No data, no science, no experiments, just an attempt to sneak a narrow set of religious views into US classrooms.
Advocates of Intelligent Design needed a story to explain why the idea has been a nonstarter within the scientific community, and Ben Stein has given it to them. The story line is that Intelligent Design advocates are persecuted and suppressed. "Expelled" tells of this terrible campaign against free expression, and mocks the pretensions of the closed-minded scientific elite supposedly behind it.
There are many things wrong with this movie. One example: Viewers are told that Dr. Richard Sternberg lost his job at the Smithsonian Institution because he edited a paper favorable to Intelligent Design. Wrong.
Sternberg wasn't even employed by the Smithsonian (he had no job to lose), and had resigned as journal editor six months before the paper was published. In fact, the irony is that neither Steinberg nor any of the other people featured as martyrs in "Expelled" lost jobs as a result of their advocacy of Intelligent Design, while many others who supported evolution have. In 2007, Chris Comer, the director of science education for Texas schools, was fired for having done nothing more than forwarding an e-mail announcing a pro-evolution seminar.
The movie also uses interviews with avowed atheists like Richard Dawkins, author of "The God Delusion," to argue that scientific establishment is vehemently anti-God. Never mind that 40 percent of the members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science profess belief in a personal God. Stein, avoiding these 50,000 people, tells viewers that "Darwinists" don't allow scientists to even think of God.
Puzzled, the editors of Scientific American asked Mark Mathis, the film's co-producer, why he and Stein didn't interview such people, like Francis Collins (head of the Human Genome Project), Francisco Ayala, or myself. Mathis cited me by name, saying "Ken Miller would have confused the film unnecessarily." In other words, showing a scientist who accepts both God and evolution would have confused their story line.
Despite these falsehoods, by far the film's most outlandish misrepresentation is its linkage of Darwin with the Holocaust. A concentration camp tour guide tells Stein that the Nazis were practicing "Darwinism," and that's that. Never mind those belt buckles proclaiming Gott mit uns (God is with us), the toxic anti-Semitism of Martin Luther, the ghettoes and murderous pogroms in Christian Europe centuries before Darwin's birth. No matter. It's all the fault of evolution.
Why is all this nonsense a threat to science? The reason is Stein's libelous conclusion that science is simply evil. In an April 21 interview on the Trinity Broadcast Network, Stein called the Nazi murder of children "horrifying beyond words." Indeed. But what led to such horrors? Stein explained: "that's where science in my opinion, this is just an opinion, that's where science leads you. Love of God and compassion and empathy leads you to a very glorious place. Science leads you to killing people."
According to Stein, science leads you to "killing people." Not to cures and vaccines, not to a deeper understanding of nature, not to wonders like computers and cellphones, and certainly not to a better life. Nope. Science is murder.
"Expelled" is a shoddy piece of propaganda that props up the failures of Intelligent Design by playing the victim card. It deceives its audiences, slanders the scientific community, and contributes mightily to a climate of hostility to science itself. Stein is doing nothing less than helping turn a generation of American youth away from science. If we actually come to believe that science leads to murder, then we deserve to lose world leadership in science. In that sense, the word "expelled" may have a different and more tragic connotation for our country than Stein intended.
Kenneth R. Miller, a biology professor at Brown University, is author of "Only a Theory - Evolution and the Battle for America's Soul," which will be published next month.
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Posted: Thursday, May 8, 2008 | PermalinkComments 1 - 50 of 60 |
Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers2. Comment #176912 by Cartomancer on May 8, 2008 at 10:32 am
Sounds like a jolly sensible chap this Kenneth Miller. Well, apart from his mild dose of god delusion, but hey, everyone needs a hobby. He's just the sort of keeps-the-supernatural-nonsense-firmly-to-himself religious person I have no quarrel with.
If only they were all like him...
Other Comments by Cartomancer
3. Comment #176913 by thewhitepearl on May 8, 2008 at 10:34 am
I don't think I've heard of anyone with a shred of intelligence that comes back with a praised review of this movie....
next
Other Comments by thewhitepearl
4. Comment #176915 by Quetzalcoatl on May 8, 2008 at 10:36 am
Hmm. Another Expelled review that slates the film. Anybody would think it was of poor quality. Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl
5. Comment #176921 by Bruno on May 8, 2008 at 10:44 am
I like Ken Miller despite his silly beliefs. Come across to me anyway as a pretty cool teacher. I always loved his explanation of Chromosome #2 (saw it on Youtube a year ago).Showed that video to a creationist acquaintance of mine to see what he could possibly say. The Fundamentalist creationist responded that Ken Miller is an admitted Catholic and Catholicism is a cult and therefore denied Miller's explanation of Chromosome #2 as being part of the conspiracy. I know, amazing.
Other Comments by Bruno
6. Comment #176922 by Eventhorizon on May 8, 2008 at 10:45 am
The only trouble is that the kind of people likely to watch Expelled arent likely to read articles that are criticle of it. They seem too well insulated Other Comments by Eventhorizon
7. Comment #176925 by Edouard Pernod on May 8, 2008 at 10:52 am
I don't care what Ken Miller believes personally. Nobody's perfect. He has done more to expose ID as the total fraud it is than anyone else on the planet. He was the chief witness at the Dover trial and made Behe and the "Discovery" institute look like ignorant hacks, and he helped bring to light the Chromosomal smoking gun proving apes and humans share a common ancestor.Most of my family are staunchly anti-evolution, but I recently referred my uncle to Ken Miller's work, and while it may not have changed his mind, it certainly has caused him to shut up about how great ID is and how evolution is wrong. Of course that was before Ben Stein's lying piece of crap movie came out, which I'm sure he has seen. Conversations over Thanksgiving dinner this year are not going to be fun...
Other Comments by Edouard Pernod
8. Comment #176935 by Eventhorizon on May 8, 2008 at 11:11 am
Edouardo
Or will Thanksgiving be more fun? To really spice things up you might want to throw in that turkeys and ourselves share a common ancester and add a canabalistic feel to the proceedings...
Other Comments by Eventhorizon
9. Comment #176937 by Styrer- on May 8, 2008 at 11:14 am
Comment #176912 by Cartomancer on May 8, 2008 at 10:32 amReluctantly, and solely for the purposes of seeing this film's 'ideas' shoved irretrievably down the world toilet of shit ideas, I agree.
Though quite why a seemingly reasonable chap like Miller doesn't take the next step and have a good old embarrassed chuckle at how daft he's been all this time, I'm really not sure.
Compartmentalization, no doubt. Wearing thin as that one is (intelligent faithoholics must surely know by now what their ill-serving brains are up to), I suppose we must take our support against the likes of anal fissures like Stein as we can.
But definitely reluctantly.
Best,
Styrer
Other Comments by Styrer-
10. Comment #176938 by Frankus1122 on May 8, 2008 at 11:15 am
Stein is doing nothing less than helping turn a generation of American youth away from science.
He is not alone.
I do not teach science but my students brought in their science fair projects today. Two very religious girls brought in their 'science' project. What was their 'scientific' problem to solve?
Which religion is the most believable?
I am not sure if they are antithetical toward science or perhaps just lazy.
I have been shaking my head all day about this.
It really bothers me.
I am angry and depressed.
Other Comments by Frankus1122
11. Comment #176939 by Dax on May 8, 2008 at 11:15 am
But we all know that Catholics are not True Christians™©®.Other Comments by Dax
12. Comment #176943 by Shaden on May 8, 2008 at 11:20 am
Frankus1122,
That's an easy science project. Just bring in nothing, since that's the answer.
Other Comments by Shaden
13. Comment #176944 by Cartomancer on May 8, 2008 at 11:21 am
Which religion is the most believable?Sounds like a perfectly legitimate scientific question to me. The one with the least crazy supernatural nonsense in it. Atheistic Buddhism sounds like a front runner, or Einsteinian Pantheism. Of course, you could do it as a psychology experiment rather than a physics experiment and see which religion most people in the world actually believe and why - what characteristics it has which encourage proselytisation, how it indoctrinates children, whether it has a hold on fast-breeding societies, that sort of thing. Maybe speculate on what evolved psychological characteristics it exploits.
I'm guessing they didn't do it either of those ways though, did they?
Other Comments by Cartomancer
14. Comment #176949 by artemisa on May 8, 2008 at 11:27 am
there are many believers because it's easier to believe than to think. Therefore many believers and few thinkers.Other Comments by artemisa
15. Comment #176950 by Chris Jackson on May 8, 2008 at 11:31 am
I've got to say, I'm sick of this whole Ben Stein Malarkey, let's condemn his laughable film to martyrdom, and then move on. Seriously, It's gone too far: what with the focus upon one stupendously ignorant and mis-informed work.
(I'm aware that I may echo many responses here, but it's getting a tad ridiculous now...)
Other Comments by Chris Jackson
16. Comment #176951 by Frankus1122 on May 8, 2008 at 11:31 am
I'm guessing they didn't do it either of those ways though, did they?
Nope.
They provided a list (Christianity, Buddhism, Hindism, Scientology, and Islam) and then asked the question.
Then they provided 'facts' about each religion, including what they believed was true (humans are sinful -just look at the world today) and false (to their credit the virgin birth was called into question). Then they asked the question again. The sample size was about 20 people.
Uncomfortably for them, Buddhism was found to have the slight edge over Christianity.
Other Comments by Frankus1122
17. Comment #176952 by Border Collie on May 8, 2008 at 11:31 am
I know that scientists, rationalists, Darwinists, etc. go see this movie so that they can comment on it accurately. However, every dollar paid to see this movie is a validation of it, gives it life, no matter whose pocket the dollar came from. I implore all of our colleagues to not see this movie ... don't validate it with your dollars. Truly, you are playing their game when you see this movie. Let it die the natural death it was intended to.Other Comments by Border Collie
18. Comment #176954 by mordacious1 on May 8, 2008 at 11:37 am
I was at the dentist yesterday and the lady was doing a cleaning. After my mouth is propped open and full of implements she starts telling me about a wonderful "documentary" called expelled. Oh crap. Next time just take your drill and gouge out my eyes, it would be less painful. It was interesting though how much of that BS she swallowed hole.Other Comments by mordacious1
19. Comment #176958 by Bruno on May 8, 2008 at 11:45 am
mordacious1Did you set her right?
Other Comments by Bruno
20. Comment #176959 by kaiserkriss on May 8, 2008 at 11:49 am
Science leads you to killing people.
That is absolutely disgusting. Stein should be forced to retract that statement or have his sorry posterior hauled off to court for libel and slander, together with a hefty donation to some real science institute. jcw
Other Comments by kaiserkriss
21. Comment #176962 by Lycosid on May 8, 2008 at 11:55 am
Cavities aren't caused by plaque, they happen when you displease the intelligent designer. The plaque is just there to shake your faith; it's a trick.Other Comments by Lycosid
22. Comment #176965 by mordacious1 on May 8, 2008 at 11:58 am
Bruno Oh yeah, she got a 20 minute lecture and a referal to expelledexposed.com . The worst thing is, I knew she was a christian so I changed out my atheist t-shirt before I went there, the coward that I am. I don't want christians with sharp instruments near me when I wear that.Other Comments by mordacious1
23. Comment #176966 by Bruno on May 8, 2008 at 11:59 am
Completely understandable.Other Comments by Bruno
24. Comment #176970 by HourglassMemory on May 8, 2008 at 12:02 pm
I find myself opening my mouth and really not believing, when I encounter people my age, who fall for this sort of thing.It's creepy.
I remember being a kid and taking things like SCIENCE for granted in its authority (which I don't think would harm anyone), but then I see people like Ben Stein, and OLDER, who say things that even I as a kid wouldn't think about.
It's incredible.
People just need a tremendous dose of critical thinking skills shown to them.
Conspiracy theories and crap like Ex(crement)pelled need to be debunked in 5 hour long films so you don't leave any argument behind. And books like Vincent Bugliosi's "Reclaiming history", a 1632 page book debunking all JFK conspiracies need to be put out there.
And then New Age stuff and ghosts and supernatural nonsense.
There has to be one gigantic mass production of critical thinking media.
Perhaps "The Skeptologists" will be the first of many(if it gets accepted)
Other Comments by HourglassMemory
25. Comment #176973 by mordacious1 on May 8, 2008 at 12:08 pm
I don't believe that there is trouble ahead for science. Maybe a few bumps in the road put there by nutjobs, but no matter what they do, science marches on. No one, no group can stop it... knowledge is inevitable for at least some of us.Other Comments by mordacious1
26. Comment #176974 by Frankus1122 on May 8, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Okay.
I just got back from viewing all the projects.
I am in a bit of a better mood.
Two guys built a bicycle that will purify water. The idea is that you go to a water source a few kilometers from where you live and fill up the container on the front of the bike. As you pedal back home the water is pumped through a filtration device and fills up a container on the back of the bike.
Two more of my girls did a project on colour degradation. They wanted to determine which colour will fade the fastest under which light source. They had a log book that was 125 pages long. They tested the colour degradation by scanning the coloured paper and measuring its colour value using Photoshop every 2 hours for 10 days.
If you want to keep the colour of artwork or photographs don't expose them to a lot of sunlight; especially if the art predominantly black or blue. Although this is something that we sort of know already, these girls now have some hard statisical data as to the rate of colour degradation for particular coloured papers under specific light sources.
I am sort of happy now.
There is some hope.
Other Comments by Frankus1122
27. Comment #176975 by mordacious1 on May 8, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Like I said, Science maches on!Other Comments by mordacious1
28. Comment #176977 by Partisan on May 8, 2008 at 12:16 pm
I wonder how the public will take it when they realised Expelled has flat out lied on so many of its key points, such as the link between Evolution and the Holocaust and the incompatibility of Evolution and Religion. Unbelievable, it seems like it's pissed on everyone's shoes. Other Comments by Partisan
29. Comment #176979 by mordacious1 on May 8, 2008 at 12:18 pm
I hear the DVD version is coming out. DVD meaning "Dumb, VERY DUMB".Other Comments by mordacious1
30. Comment #176981 by DamnDirtyApe on May 8, 2008 at 12:24 pm
If America ever loses its Energy for Science, you might as well hand China the world on a plate.Other Comments by DamnDirtyApe
31. Comment #176984 by mordacious1 on May 8, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Hey, so be it. Survival of the fittest and all that.Other Comments by mordacious1
32. Comment #176985 by Frankus1122 on May 8, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Comment #176975 by mordacious1
Like I said, Science maches on!
Yes. It maRches on too! :)
There were a lot of really good projects which I won't describe. I will just say that you are right. You can't stop people from thinking and being curious and trying to figure things out for real.
Other Comments by Frankus1122
33. Comment #176986 by konquererz on May 8, 2008 at 12:29 pm
I have given up trying to explain things to these irrational douche bag fundies. I now just ridicule them and laugh at them for knowing so little about evolution. They feel embarassed when you laugh at their interpretation of science when they realize that their stupid fundy book on creationism is stupid. Then they get mad like little children then they tell me I will burn in hell. Other Comments by konquererz
34. Comment #177005 by mordacious1 on May 8, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Short post so I did not proof read, won't make that mistake again.Other Comments by mordacious1
35. Comment #177019 by MaxD on May 8, 2008 at 1:16 pm
I do find it funny that Stein has done out did Michael Moore concerning this film of his. Other Comments by MaxD
36. Comment #177023 by Frankus1122 on May 8, 2008 at 1:24 pm
I do find it funny that Stein has done out did Michael Moore concerning this film of his.
?
Uh, Max, you aren't turning into wooter here are you? :)
Other Comments by Frankus1122
37. Comment #177037 by exquisitetruth on May 8, 2008 at 1:44 pm
I live in the American South East (Nashville, TN to be exact), and I have to say that from where I am sitting, science and critical thinking in general are in deep trouble indeed. Less than an hour from my home is the planned site for a Bible theme park, to be financed in part through tax incentives, and the major controversy is that local residents are worried about traffic.
The local public schools sport banners advertising neighborhood churches, and the local courthouse starts each session with a prayer.
Recently, I began an audio podcast (ExquisiteTruth.com), primarily out of frustration. I wanted to be able to tell others out there that they are not alone. Fortunately, I have been able to find a small band of enlightened compatriots in the local area, but we are so very alone, and quite rightly feel we would be endangered while in public if people knew what are.
People in more enlightened regions have no idea how ubiquitous faith and religion are in this region.
Other Comments by exquisitetruth
38. Comment #177041 by truthcounts on May 8, 2008 at 1:46 pm
While Ken Miller is a "believer" I think he is a great speaker, able to articulate complex concepts in simple terms. He could be instumental in speaking to those who otherwise would not listen, his impact was tangigle in Dover PA. It is his beleif in god that gives him credibitly amoungst the religious. The only way to win the relious rejection of science is through education. The rest will follow. You need someone they will listen too. Ken Miller is important in that regard.Other Comments by truthcounts
39. Comment #177048 by steveroot on May 8, 2008 at 1:51 pm
26. Comment #176974 by Frankus1122 on May 8, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Okay.
I just got back from viewing all the projects.
I am in a bit of a better mood.
When my daughter (now in college and well on her way to a career in science) was in 4th grade, she did a science fair project which addressed the question "which detergent is best at getting ketchup stains out of white cotton?" (ERA). Hers was the only one with a positive and negative controls, blind evaluation and statistics.
21. Comment #176962 by Lycosid on May 8, 2008 at 11:55 am
Cavities aren't caused by plaque, they happen when you displease the intelligent designer. The plaque is just there to shake your faith; it's a trick
Excuse me, but I have a DDS and I can tell you that cavities are *not* caused by plaque per se, but rather by tooth demons that live in the plaque. They can be exorcised, but only with Holy Floss(R).
Ste5e
Other Comments by steveroot
40. Comment #177085 by SilentMike on May 8, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Ken is the man. I'm glad he's on our side in this. I'm not even going to talk about his strange hobbies. That's beside the point.Other Comments by SilentMike
41. Comment #177098 by b0ltzm0n on May 8, 2008 at 2:47 pm
I'm not sure which bothers me more; the idea that Ken Miller really is a Catholic, or that maybe he just says he's a Catholic so that he can claim to be a god-fearing supporter of Evolutionary Theory to help Our Side(TM). Other Comments by b0ltzm0n
42. Comment #177101 by amalthea on May 8, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Stein should be prosecuted for stupidity. I can't even find the words to describe someone who takes a heinous period in world history and uses it to further his own misguided ends. If he was a member of any other faith he'd be in jail for holocaust denial or something similar. The history is wrong, his conclusions are wrong, he's just plain wrong. I'm furious, but feel so impotent against this BS. If the majority of the human race is like this, I think we're better off leacing the planet to the cockroaches and fungi. Although I hope it doesn't come to that, of course.B
Other Comments by amalthea
43. Comment #177104 by Goldy on May 8, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Don't worry, Ken! Go east! Their philosophies on the esoteric allows for science to go ahead smoothly. I'm sure the powers that be will be only too pleased to accept decent American scientists to teach their future generations :-)Other Comments by Goldy
44. Comment #177146 by cyris8400 on May 8, 2008 at 4:48 pm
Does anybody have an idea how well Expelled has been doing at the box office? Purely judging from commercials, I'd say mediocre, because when a movie does well they do new trailers (#1 movie in America, blah blah blah), and the only trailers I've been seeing are for "Iron Man" and "Narnia" and "What Happens in Vegas".Other Comments by cyris8400
45. Comment #177150 by Goldy on May 8, 2008 at 4:55 pm
"Expelled", as far as I can see, is completely unknown in NZ.Other Comments by Goldy
46. Comment #177202 by riki on May 8, 2008 at 6:33 pm
I liked this quote in NS today http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn13858-europe-recruits-astronauts-for-possible-moon-missions.html
"We want the youth of Europe to be interested in science, mathematics and engineering, and go into these careers whether it's in space or not," he said. "The astronauts are a focal point â€" they're icons for that inspiration."
Other Comments by riki
47. Comment #177227 by scooternyc on May 8, 2008 at 7:32 pm
I just saw Miller at the Natural History Museum here in New York giving a terrific lecture on evolution, if you can find it on the web somewhere after tonight, don't miss it. Other Comments by scooternyc
48. Comment #177244 by discipline on May 8, 2008 at 8:11 pm
#37: Exquisite Truth: "People in more enlightened regions have no idea how ubiquitous faith and religion are in this region."Indeed, I've been harping about that on this site for some time. I live in rural Virginia and I think that the outlook is quite grim. Yes, truth/reality may triumph eventually, but not necessarily before the U.S. goes down in flames.
The fundies long ago realized that the most effective way to retain their economic/political power (which is really all they care about), is to focus their energies on 1) childhood indoctrination via homeschooling, 2) proselytizing in developing countries (eg, China, Africa), and 3) creating a cradle-to-grave alternate society (Christian universities, Christian "scientific" journals, Christian TV and radio, Christian banks, Christian phone companies, etc, etc). They've been incredibly successful doing all these things.
These people have a LOT of motivation and money ... and guns. It's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
Other Comments by discipline
49. Comment #177261 by dragonfirematrix on May 8, 2008 at 8:39 pm
To comment on post number "48. Comment #177244 by discipline on May 8, 2008 at 8:11 pm "You are right. It is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
I suspect the religious have unspeackable horrors in mind for all who do not tow the Neanderthal religious line.
Thinkers, and those who believe in freedom, civil rights, civil liberties, human rights, and truth must never let the religious get a majority in government (any government).
Other Comments by dragonfirematrix
50. Comment #177365 by AtheistAspy on May 9, 2008 at 1:36 am
At least it's tanking at the box office. I live in the religiously-conservative city of Colorado Springs, and the movie's 10th place at the local box office. Other Comments by AtheistAspy
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The Blind Watchmaker
by Richard Dawkins
Unweaving the Rainbow
by Richard Dawkins
1. Comment #176911 by T4Baxter on May 8, 2008 at 10:30 am
wow first post,one can only hope this kind of ridicule becomes 'the rule'. I think most people want to avoid looking silly. good :)
Other Comments by T4Baxter