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Friday, May 16, 2008 | Science : Evolution and Biology | print version Print | Comments

Video The amazing intelligence of crows

Joshua Klein, TED Talks

Reposted from:
http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/261
and
http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/2008/05/crows.html

Hacker and writer Joshua Klein is fascinated by crows. (Notice the gleam of intelligence in their little black eyes?) After a long amateur study of corvid behavior, he's come up with an elegant machine that may form a new bond between animal and human.



Hi-res video:
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/download/video/2333/talk/261



More on Betty...

Reposted from:
http://theweeklyreport.com/Newsletters/Aug12.pdf

SURPRISE SNACK:
Betty the Crow Proves She's No Bird-Brain

-- Shocking results from experiment give new insight to bird's intelligence.--

BACKGROUND:
The Behavioral Ecology Research Group at Oxford University's Department of Zoology investigates animal and human decision making with the tools of experimental psychology and of evolutionary biology. The main experimental models, apart from New Caledonian crows as used in this experiment, are European Starlings (Sturnus vulgaris). Some current and previous issues include: risk-sensitive foraging behavior, animal decision making, parental and begging behavior, and time perception. For further information, see:
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~kgroup/

The New Caledonian crows last made headlines in December when their preference for using the right side of their beak was discovered. The bird rips pieces from leaves and turn them into tools for removing insects from trees. But when it did, more often than not it used the right side of its beak.

This preference for one side of the body over another is more commonly seen in humans, gorillas and chimps, and its discovery in a bird species raises the question of how it developed.

Some researchers have suggested that the tendency towards right-handedness in humans is a result of the ability to speak, a mental activity concentrated in the half of the brain which controls the body's right side. The discovery of "right-beakedness" in crows makes it look more likely that handedness has a more general origin. Turning a leaf into an effective insect-winkling tool requires a considerable degree of brain effort. Dr Hunt and his colleagues say their results point towards handedness being a product of being able to carry out complex sequences of actions. Those sequences of actions could result in the making of a tool or the production of speech. Either way, concentrating all the brain effort in one side of the brain seems to be a more efficient way of thinking and acting. So, the results of this past development are consistent with the new, birds are turning out to be alot smarter than we thought they were.

NOTE: Other birds have also shown surprising levels of ingenuity. ƒThe woodpecker finch of the Galapagos Islands uses a cactus spine to spear insects. Pigeons have been known to recognize humans and letters of alphabet. Parrots, though, appear to be at the top of the pecking order. Alex, an African gray parrot, hit the headlines in the 1980s. The bird had a vocabulary of 100 English words and was able to ask questions and make requests.

STORY:

LONDON - In a challenge to man's sense of the uniqueness of his own intelligence, an ingenious crow called Betty has managed repeatedly to twist wire into a hook to lift food from a tube in a British laboratory. "We had to convince ourselves it was not a fluke, so we repeated the test 10 times and the animal did it in nine of those," said an excited Professor Alex Kacelnik, who led the ex‡periment at Oxford University. Showing an extremely rare capacity for an animal to understand cause and effect and create a tool out of non-natural material, the female crow bent straight garden wire -- a material she had only seen before on cage meshes -- into a hook.

The researchers were testing whether the birds were able to lift food out of a vertical tube using either a straight piece of wire or a hook. "The surprise came in trial number five when the male stole away the hook and flew to another part of the aviary," said Professor Kacelnik. He watched as Betty spontaneously bent a straight piece of wire and used it to retrieve the snack.

She held it in her beak to lower into a vertical pipe from which she lifted" a small bucket with meat morsels inside. That display of what the team of three scientists call "toolrelated cognitive capabilities" has challenged previous assumptions that primates like apes were the best after humans in problem solving intelligence. "We assume primates will be cleverer because they are closest to us," Kacelnik added in a phone interview from his laboratory in Oxford. "But this animal (Betty) seems to be on a par at least with any primates we have seen." In the tests, Betty consistently outsmarted her older male crow companion Abel -- both from the Corvus Moneduloides species on the Pacific island of New Caledonia. Fortunately for male pride, however, scientists attributed Betty's superior brainpower to her relative youth, not sex.

The only time in 10 experiments when Betty did not make a hook out of the wire was when Abel managed to bring the food up with straight wire. On other occasions, he waited for Betty to bring out the food then stole it from her.

Argentine-born Kacelnik, and British colleagues Jackie Chappell and Alex Weir carried out the crow experiments three months ago and reported them in a paper published by this week's edition of U.S. magazine Science. "To bend the wire, she first wedged one end of it in sticky tape -- available around the bottom of the tube and the side of the plastic tray containing the apparatus -- or held it in her feet at a location three meters from th̀e food, where there was no tape," they wrote in their paper. "In all cases but one, she tried with the straight wire before starting to make the hook. In all valid trials, the birds retrieved the food within two minutes."

In the wild, crows often use twigs as hooks, but Betty's achievement was to manufacture a non-natural material with a specific task in mind. "She had no model to imitate ... Purposeful modification of objects by animals for use as tools, without extensive prior experience, is almost unknown," the scientists said.

The scientists said in similar experiments done by others, only once had a male monkey managed to unbend a piece of wire to obtain honey. In another precedent they cited, chimpanzees repeatedly failed !to unbend piping and put it through a hole to grab an apple, unless they received coaching.

"I think the important message is that there is not just one way of being intelligent as we understand it," Kacelnik added. "Different types of intelligence evolve for different animals." Animal insight New Caledonian crows have been seen to make at least two sorts of hook tools in the wild.

Full details of the Oxford University research are published in Science (9 August 2002), 'Shaping of Hooks in New Caledonian Crows' by Alexander Weir, Jackie Chappell and Alex Kacelnik.

SIGNIFICANCE:

In the wild, New Caledonian crows make at least two sorts of hook tools using distinct techniques, but the method used by the female crow in this experiment is different from those and would be unlikely to be: effective with natural materials. While they were familiar with similar experiments they had no experience with wires. The findings may have wide-ranging implications regarding birds' understanding of physics and their quality of reasoning about cause and effect.

The team is now exploring whether New Caledonian crows are exceptionally clever in many other respects, or whether they have brains specially evolved for the use and manufacture of tools. Alex Kacelnik, Professor of Behavioral Ecology, said: 'Although many animals use tools, purposeful modification of objects to solve new problems, without training or prior experience, is virtually unknown. Experiments with primates, who are much closer relatives of humans than birds, have failed to show any deliberate, specific tool making and human-like understandinÏg of basic physical laws.

'We are now keen to elucidate if New Caledonian crows are outstanding in all aspects of their intelligence or only in those related to tool manufacturing and use. In other words we want to understand what kind of mind these crows have. This will give us the opportunity to test hypotheses about the conditions which are needed for complex cognition to evolve.'

Gavin Hunt of the University of Auckland, New Zealand, has studied them. He said the behavior of the young female crow was very interesting but not that surprising. "It is tempting to say that the bird used some kind of insight to access and solve the problem of extracting the food, as humans often do in their toolmaking," he told BBC News Online. "However, we need to carry out more experiments to see if this was the case."

Comments 1 - 50 of 63 |

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1. Comment #181035 by schmeer on May 16, 2008 at 10:33 am

Fascinating. I wonder how much they are capable of learning. If they are able to learn to use a crosswalk by watching humans, how long will it be until one of them gets a pointy hat and tells the others that he has exclusive access to the invisible crow that sees all.

Other Comments by schmeer

2. Comment #181037 by MaxD on May 16, 2008 at 10:35 am

 avatarSchmeer,
Already happened, see Animal Farm by Orwell.
Oh wait that is fiction.

Other Comments by MaxD

3. Comment #181064 by mordacious1 on May 16, 2008 at 11:23 am

So like, I should get a crow and teach him to pick up my kid's clothes, cool.

Other Comments by mordacious1

4. Comment #181070 by Zaphod on May 16, 2008 at 11:40 am

 avatarMe and my crow army will destroy you all!

Other Comments by Zaphod

5. Comment #181071 by Richard Dawkins on May 16, 2008 at 11:41 am

For me the really exciting example here is Betty, the crow who bent a wire into a hook and used it to get food. The work was done in the lab of my Oxford colleague Alex Kacelnik, and he should have been given credit.

Richard

Other Comments by Richard Dawkins

6. Comment #181074 by mordacious1 on May 16, 2008 at 11:48 am

When I took Zoo. 1, they were still teaching that "tool use" separated man from the rest of the animals. How far we (or they) have come. I like the part where one crow does something and soon they all are doing it. Learning, it's not just for humans. By the way, that crow that bent the wire has better problem solving skills than some students I've taught.

Other Comments by mordacious1

7. Comment #181076 by Quine on May 16, 2008 at 11:52 am

 avatarI just had the experience of taking care of a friend's CAG parrot for two weeks, and I can tell you the things they can do just fly in the face of our usual ideas of their small brain size. This has caused me to wonder if part of the optimization for flying has caused birds to have neuroanatomy that gets more efficient processing per gram of brain weight than we who are bound to the ground. Anyone know about research on this?

P.S. That would go for bats as well.

Other Comments by Quine

8. Comment #181080 by Chris_The_Positivist on May 16, 2008 at 12:00 pm

That is amazing! I wonder what this says of the consciousness of crows?

I guess it goes to illustrate the arrogance of those people who believe we are unique in the world, 'god's' chosen creatures. The only animals capable of intelligent deduction, innovation (with respect to the crow and the bent wire) and of course adaption.

Other Comments by Chris_The_Positivist

9. Comment #181087 by b0ltzm0n on May 16, 2008 at 12:14 pm

 avatarMy only question is: How does crowe taste?

I mean, this is a species that seems to be getting a free ride off of our species. And if they're experiencing exponential growth and are always living in and near our habitats, well that sounds like a viable food source to me. Though I'm not sure I like the sound of Crowe McNuggets... but I'll leave that up to the marketing folk to deal with...

Oh, and all the adaptation stuff was cool too. =P

Other Comments by b0ltzm0n

10. Comment #181090 by Caudimordax on May 16, 2008 at 12:17 pm

 avatarAmazing creatures. I once took care of a baby crow that had fallen from its nest for a few days. Did you know when they're young, their eyes are bright blue!

He needs to work on the behavior of these crows, however, who have taken to stealing food out of childrens hands!

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/07/world/asia/07crows.html?scp=1&sq=crows japan&st=nyt

BTW - I couldn't get any audio from this - I had to go directly to the TED site. Link didn't work either (for me)

Other Comments by Caudimordax

11. Comment #181092 by Tezcatlipoca on May 16, 2008 at 12:18 pm

 avatarI recall that in one of the Little House books by Laura Ingalls Wilder their cornfields were getting raided by crows and they ended up eating crow pie or somesuch.

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12. Comment #181094 by mordacious1 on May 16, 2008 at 12:21 pm

bOltzmOn Is that how you spell crow or are you referring to Cheryl Crowe? In that case, you'd have to ask Lance Armstrong.

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13. Comment #181096 by black wolf on May 16, 2008 at 12:22 pm

 avatarQuine,
that's exactly along the lines I've been thinking. I've been running various simulations based on evolutionary algorithms, and it's obvious that weight and mass distribution are of prime importance, especially to flight, where even alterations barely noticeable to the naked eye have great impact. The wings and their muscles would not only have to be much stronger, but they would also need a different balance (which can be attained by a different angle of the wings' axis), but that would make the bird slower in turn. Also, a more elongated brain to allow better aerodynamics of the skull would be more difficult to 'wire' neurologically than a more or less spherical or oval brain. But I leave further comment on this to Prof. Dawkins and other biologists, as I presume they'd probably have more ideas that I haven't thought of.

Other Comments by black wolf

14. Comment #181098 by black wolf on May 16, 2008 at 12:28 pm

 avatar
He needs to work on the behavior of these crows, however, who have taken to stealing food out of childrens hands!


That reminds me of some 'adaptation' in behavior I once witnessed at a pier restaurant in California. I had ordered a hamburger and fries, but they forgot to make the fries and gave me only by burger. So I put the burger on my table and told my friends not to take it (they are fond of such pranks). I hadn't thought of telling the seagulls. When I came back from the counter with my fries, my burger was gone, and my friends pointed at the few pieces left of it lying around on the floor near our table. A seagull had pierced the whole burger with its beak and taken the whole patty away by flight.
I went back to the counter, thinking 'they'll never believe that, what a waste of money', but the clerk gave me a new burger without question. Apparently the seagull population of that area had worked out that unattended (meaning in my hands) food was free to take, even when within half a meter of humans.

Other Comments by black wolf

15. Comment #181102 by Rickshaw on May 16, 2008 at 12:32 pm

 avatarQuine I can not provide any research but I have observed an interesting change in behaviour of a pair of Robins that regularily nest at the bottom of our garden.

In previous years they have collected the nesting materials in the typical 'how to build a Robins nest' manner. This year however I have noted that they have waited on the fence for our dog to go out into the garden, do whatever it needed to do to relieve itself, and then kick up grass and moss debris at the conclusion of its activity.

The robin has then nipped in and helped itself to the moss - revisiting a number of times to the same picking area.

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16. Comment #181108 by Chris_The_Positivist on May 16, 2008 at 12:40 pm

It's interesting how we can see at least one element of evolution in practice, at least something which is as a result of evolution, the ability of a lot of animals to quickly adapt to their surroundings in order to survive.

I'm sure this goes against the creationist dogma that all animals were 'created' as they are today, having gone through zero change and having never needed to accumulate those instinctive skills to adapt, think and survive.

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17. Comment #181111 by black wolf on May 16, 2008 at 12:43 pm

 avatar
I'm sure this goes against the creationist dogma that all animals were 'created' as they are today, having gone through zero change and having never needed to accumulated those instinctive skills to adapt, think and survive.


*whiny voice or D'Souza pitch*
'But they're still only crows! And the nylon bug is still a bug!'

Other Comments by black wolf

18. Comment #181112 by lilithattack on May 16, 2008 at 12:45 pm

I fell in love with Crows and out of religion when I read Ted Hughes' CROW: (From the Life and Songs of the Crow) poems. They are a beautiful and jaw dropping mythology (or apocrypha?) of Crow as god's nightmare.

Other Comments by lilithattack

19. Comment #181115 by Caudimordax on May 16, 2008 at 12:46 pm

 avatar"Apparently the seagull population of that area had worked out that unattended (meaning in my hands) food was free to take, even when within half a meter of humans"

I hope you'll take a look at the article I posted the link to - crows in Japan are not waiting for food to be "unattended."

Other Comments by Caudimordax

20. Comment #181116 by black wolf on May 16, 2008 at 12:47 pm

 avatarZeus chose crows (ravens to be exact).
Yahweh chose sheep.

'nuff said.

Other Comments by black wolf

21. Comment #181118 by Chris_The_Positivist on May 16, 2008 at 12:51 pm

Hehe!
It's like dawkins says himself, we perceive things from middle world. D'souza et al can't bring themselves to accept evolution in the face of their dearest convictions.

Other Comments by Chris_The_Positivist

22. Comment #181119 by black wolf on May 16, 2008 at 12:53 pm

 avatarYup, thanks for that Caudimordax. Is it a worldwide conspiracy? DUNH-DUN-DUUUUUNHHH!!!
I read a somewhat silly sci-fi short novel years ago, based on the idea that environment protectionists and Green parties had come to power worldwide. As a consequence, the birds took over the top of the food chain and had grown to huge proportions. All the humans could do was hide in caves and send out sacrificial persons once in a while.

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23. Comment #181121 by Quine on May 16, 2008 at 12:55 pm

 avatarThanks, Black Wolf, as always the most interesting developments are at the edge of what life can manage. I am sad for the religious folks who close their eyes to something so literally wonderful and magnificent.

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24. Comment #181123 by Chris_The_Positivist on May 16, 2008 at 12:57 pm

Freaky idea! Giant birds, sounds familiar somehow...

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25. Comment #181124 by seqenenre on May 16, 2008 at 1:00 pm

I remember reading the story of a birdspecies in Japan but I have no idea where I first read it (somehow the name David Attenborough pops up). The bird found out that if you dropped a nut on one of these black stripes on the earth one of those boxlike animals with round limbs would smash the nut and you could eat it. It was very dangerous though, chances were you were smashed like the nut yourself.
Until one day, one of the birds dropped the nut in between a couple of white bars on the black patch and half of the time you could savely eat the smashed nut, but half of the time you yourself would be smashed, like the nut.
And again, a clever bird found that once you had dropped the nut in between the white bars and waited until many humans walked over these white bars you could savely eat your cracked nut (of course avoiding being stepped on, but most humans never step on birds). If you paid enough attention, you could even predict when these humans would dare walking on these black patches. Somewhere a red light would turn green…
I am absolutely sure this is a genuine story,…I think. Does anyone recognise this piece of avian genius?

Other Comments by seqenenre

26. Comment #181130 by black wolf on May 16, 2008 at 1:09 pm

 avatarseqenenre,
I can confirm that:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/12/1209_041209_crows_apes.html
Hardly controlled conditions, but apparently a true account.

Other Comments by black wolf

27. Comment #181135 by seqenenre on May 16, 2008 at 1:12 pm

Can I remove my previous post. I had not seen the video, I just read the text. How embarassing. HELP!!! (on the sunny side: it was Attenborough!)

Other Comments by seqenenre

28. Comment #181137 by Andrew Stich on May 16, 2008 at 1:14 pm

Incredible. After the examples which demonstrate how intelligent crows are (the wire-bending and the nut-dropping), and the examples which demonstrate a crow's ability to learn (the spreading of the nut-dropping and the vending machine), it is possible that they could be trained for mutually beneficial results.

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29. Comment #181145 by Quine on May 16, 2008 at 1:20 pm

 avatarYes, seqenenre, that was the clip from Attenborough's Life of Birds series that was used in the TED video. Also, the Robin behavior mentioned by Rickshaw is covered in another section where it is shown in context to another bird that follows tortoises around to peck at the divots left in their path. I strongly recommend this program on DVD to all.

Also in that series, Attenborough covers the crows that use sticks to get grubs out of wood, and even shows that some of them take to carrying around their "favorite" sticks. However, this makes what Betty did in the video even more amazing because nowhere in hundreds of thousands of years of evolution did these birds get the skill to use a wire that, unlike a stick, could be bent into a hook.

Other Comments by Quine

30. Comment #181173 by Mitchell Gilks on May 16, 2008 at 2:24 pm

 avatar5. Comment #181071 by Richard Dawkins
The work was done in the lab of my Oxford colleague Alex Kacelnik, and he should have been given credit.


Looked like Betty was the one that bent the wire and fished out the food to me.

Other Comments by Mitchell Gilks

31. Comment #181174 by HourglassMemory on May 16, 2008 at 2:28 pm

I love TED lectures.
They should realease those past lectures in just one blow.
There's stuff from 2002 and even 1980's. Where someone went for about an hour talking about the innovations of the future and somebody else talking about architecture.
Where's the rest of it?

Aren't all the lectures taped?
Because you sometimes hear the people giving a lecture, mentioning for a brief moment something like "As you saw with xxx's presentation.." or "I must say how amazing the things that xxxx showed just now..."
I want to see those lectures as well!

Why are TED lectures released drop by drop?

Other Comments by HourglassMemory

32. Comment #181199 by Darwin's badger on May 16, 2008 at 3:41 pm

 avatar
5. Comment #181071 by Richard Dawkins on May 16, 2008 at 11:41 am
For me the really exciting example here is Betty, the crow who bent a wire into a hook and used it to get food. The work was done in the lab of my Oxford colleague Alex Kacelnik, and he should have been given credit.

Richard
Richard, there was an interesting article in New Scientist that you may have seen last summer, entitled "The scheming minds of crows". It's fascinating inasmuch as it suggests that the "theory of mind" module that Simon Baron-Cohen has investigated exhaustively may exist in a much smaller brain than that of primates.

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/life/mg19426091.700-the-scheming-minds-of-crows.html

*edit* Incidentally, it was suggested in the main article in this thread that handedness in humans may have been a result of hemispheric specialisation for speech. I'm studying psychology , so I know a little about Broca's area and neural plasticity etc., but I was just wondering if the cart hasn't been put before the horse here; could it be that handedness is a precursor for speech, rather than the other way around? Favouring one side of the body over the other (for instance, the right) would lead to a greater cortical density on the contralateral side, which in turn could encourage the development of more fine motor control in the larynx, the tongue and the lips, each of which play an important part in creating speech.

This has probably been done to death by Chomsky or Pinker, but if anyone has a quick and easy answer that won't lead me to search through my gazillion textbooks, I'd appreciate it. :)

Other Comments by Darwin's badger

33. Comment #181211 by sarah95 on May 16, 2008 at 4:12 pm

 avatar
The only time in 10 experiments when Betty did not make a hook out of the wire was when Abel managed to bring the food up with straight wire. On other occasions, he waited for Betty to bring out the food then stole it from her.


Drama, drama, DRAMA! I would watch reality television more often if it was only about non-primate animals like Betty and Abel. Animal Planet has a show like that for meerkats, but I think there should be more. Enough whiny college girls and stupid hicks trying to win money: I wanna watch crows play mind games with each other!

Other Comments by sarah95

34. Comment #181216 by Quine on May 16, 2008 at 4:23 pm

 avatarDB, see this study of language and "footedness" in African Grey parrots.

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35. Comment #181231 by OGjimbo on May 16, 2008 at 5:17 pm

Wow! I found that video to be truly facinating, thanks very much for posting it!

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36. Comment #181251 by Dog Boots on May 16, 2008 at 6:48 pm

I, for one, welcome our new crow overlords.

Seriously, this video was regular cool until the "pick up trash"-vision was introduced. Then it was promoted to Ă¼ber cool. VERY interesting.

Other Comments by Dog Boots

37. Comment #181277 by steveroot on May 16, 2008 at 8:31 pm

 avatar
29. Comment #181145 by Quine on May 16, 2008 at 1:20 pm

However, this makes what Betty did in the video even more amazing because nowhere in hundreds of thousands of years of evolution did these birds get the skill to use a wire that, unlike a stick, could be bent into a hook.

Hell, I've got *dental students* who would have a hard time figuring that out!
Ste5e

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38. Comment #181305 by mordacious1 on May 16, 2008 at 9:42 pm

...so I saw two crows mugging a meter maid....

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39. Comment #181317 by RightWingAtheist on May 16, 2008 at 10:49 pm

 avatarNo final stage of having the crows scavenge the city for loose change?

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40. Comment #181346 by Darwin's badger on May 17, 2008 at 2:20 am

 avatar
34. Comment #181216 by Quine on May 16, 2008 at 4:23 pm
DB, see this study of language and "footedness" in African Grey parrots.
Thanks Quine, it's much appreciated. I have an exam that includes animal learning and cognition next week, so this will be going in there!

Other Comments by Darwin's badger

41. Comment #181347 by witchspell on May 17, 2008 at 2:21 am

 avatarA very interesting video and a great, amusing lecture. It keeps me wondering on the complexity and beauty of nature... After all, we're only one of the various, sophisticated species living on this planet;)

Other Comments by witchspell

42. Comment #181352 by black wolf on May 17, 2008 at 2:37 am

 avatar
No final stage of having the crows scavenge the city for loose change?


Nah, they're smarter than that. As reported in this thread, they've made the step to form gangs preying on the defenseless already. It's just us stupid humans that feel there's an intermediate step necessary to acquire monetary pieces to trade.
Soooo, got any change on ya mister?
Change?
Chaaaaaaange?

Other Comments by black wolf

43. Comment #181364 by davem on May 17, 2008 at 3:38 am

All this is old news to anyone who watches birds closely. I've never understood the oxymoronic 'bird brain' description. I've seen crows lining up to soar a small rock in a 30 mph wind, watch them cackle as they fall off, then join a QUEUE to get back on. I've seen them in a tree over a thermal source, rise up as the thermal hits them, then drop a wing and tumble back to the tree, all the time laughing their heads off.

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44. Comment #181366 by Thor'Ungal on May 17, 2008 at 3:46 am

 avatarI am wondering if it would not be possible to do something like what we've done with dogs(selective breeding has sped up the evolutionary proccess so to say) except this time breed for sentience. We're looking to create artificial intellegence but why not work with a proccess we know already worked once.

Set up systems that try to force animals to develop culture, representational language and tool making. Try to keep it all ethical so don't just fry the stupid ones but maybe just make it really worth the smart ones while to get smarter and breed with smarter. Ok this could end badly for us but I too would welcome our crow overlords if it came to that.

If we can't find intellegent life out there it's our responsibility to make more of it here.

EDIT: it might also be sensible to have them evolve a code of ethics too, lest we create a monster.

Thor'Ungal

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45. Comment #181392 by Dhamma on May 17, 2008 at 6:04 am

 avatarI'm simply awestruck. This is one of the most interesting videos I have ever seen. That's a bold statement, but it's also true.

I love this guy for finding out all of this as well.

I wonder if it would, theoretically, be possible for us to "help" them evolve their intellect faster by putting out puzzles for decades after decades in one area where some live, then we can see how far they can go, before it's not possible to evolve the brain any further without the help of e.g. advanced limbs like we have. I have no idea(does anyone?) how advanced their language is, but it would be awesome to see if they, theoretically, could become self-aware after a few thousands of years with heavy mind-challenging puzzles. Eventually humans will probably understand how their language works and then we can see if it evolves too.

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46. Comment #181395 by Dhamma on May 17, 2008 at 6:12 am

 avatarSomething else I wonder is why the crow of all birds have evolved so much more than the others? Why is the crow so much smarter than every other bird when they physically appear to have about the same possibilities. Other birds are not stupid, but the crow seems to excel in most aspects. But maybe it's the same reason that apes are still apes and we evolved into humans(god damnit, I'm bad on how the evolutionary process works).

Other Comments by Dhamma

47. Comment #181412 by Brian English on May 17, 2008 at 7:40 am

 avatarDhamma:
Something else I wonder is why the crow of all birds have evolved so much more than the others?

They haven't. They just evolved the requisite mental capacities to do this, other birds didn't. They are all evolved.

But maybe it's the same reason that apes are still apes and we evolved into humans

And humans are a species of Ape. We're still apes too. :)

Other Comments by Brian English

48. Comment #181511 by PJG on May 17, 2008 at 10:29 am

 avatarMy family and I watched a group of about 15 pied crows playing in a thermal above a small cliff in The Gambia one afternoon a few years ago.

The wind was quite (relatively) strong (they are fairly big birds) and they had a piece of palm leaf. One would fly up above the others and then drop it. Another would catch it, on the wing, by flipping sideways and it would then fly high and drop it for the next one to catch. The game went on for about twenty minutes and a thoroughly good time was had by all... especially the group of human spectators. Fascinating.

My only regret is that we were so enchanted that none of us thought to video it until too late.

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49. Comment #181532 by Nova on May 17, 2008 at 11:15 am

Quine:
taking care of a friend's CAG parrot for two weeks, and I can tell you the things they can do just fly in the face of our usual ideas of their small brain size
Indeed, African Grey Parrots are the only competitors for the title of worlds smartest bird with Carrion Crows. BTW, it is not brain size but brain size in comparison to body size that is used to measure intelligence. This measure is not precise but it works and both Carrion Crows and African Grey Parrots have very large brains in comparison to the size of their bodies.

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50. Comment #181583 by Edamus on May 17, 2008 at 3:06 pm

 avatarHa! Betty is awesome! I bet Alex Kacelnik and colleagues were quite panicked when this happened.

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