The Expelled Evolutionist2. Comment #189075 by mordacious1 on June 5, 2008 at 11:13 am
Kind of a rehash of what we already know.3. Comment #189083 by KRKBAB on June 5, 2008 at 11:30 am
"Teachers should have the right to teach what they believe is right even if it runs counter to the scientific mainstream". Wow. That's horrible. How about if you tag onto the end of that: "as long as they have sufficient evidence that their "beliefs" are on a reasonably level standing with the rigors and integrity of scientific mainstream". A teacher shouldn't be allowed to teach what she/he believes if it flies in the face of rational thought!4. Comment #189084 by black wolf on June 5, 2008 at 11:34 am
5. Comment #189113 by Quine on June 5, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Often we put too much emphasis on Charles Darwin
6. Comment #189115 by flobear on June 5, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Teachers should have the right to teach what they believe is right, even if it runs counter to the scientific mainstream.
7. Comment #189122 by jonjermey on June 5, 2008 at 1:44 pm
...and English teachers should have the right to spell words any way they want, and geography teachers should be able to put Alaska on the equator if they want to, and maths teachers who aren't comfortable with the idea that 2 plus 2 = 4 should be able to teach the controversy...8. Comment #189127 by Corylus on June 5, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Teachers should have the right to teach what they believe is right, even if it runs counter to the scientific mainstream. It's hard to take issue with that in the abstract...Actually, it is very easy to take issue with this in the abstract and this is because of a lack of clarity about the word 'right'...
... what they believe is right....Now does this mean 'right' the sense of being 'correct'? (i.e. corresponding to reality) or does it imply 'right' as some form of moral injunction?
9. Comment #189144 by Pathfinder on June 5, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Quite frankly, as a Christian I am appalled at the hubris and arrogance of a number of my fellow "Christians". Science is science, religion is religion. If teachers have the right to teach what they believe is "right", without evidence, just based on instinct and conviction ( "the best lack all conviction, the worst are full of passionate intensity" - WB Yeats ) then by the same logic it is perfectly acceptable to aver women, ethnic minorities, homosexuals and people who work on the Sabbath (see Exodus) should be punished and even killed. It's this inconsistency which really gets me.10. Comment #189148 by robotaholic on June 5, 2008 at 2:34 pm
If teachers have the right to teach what they believe is "right", without evidence, just based on instinct and conviction ( "the best lack all conviction, the worst are full of passionate intensity" - WB Yeats ) then by the same logic it is perfectly acceptable to aver women, ethnic minorities, homosexuals and people who work on the Sabbath (see Exodus) should be punished and even killed. It's this inconsistency which really gets me.
11. Comment #189150 by Corylus on June 5, 2008 at 2:41 pm
12. Comment #189151 by Pathfinder on June 5, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Robotoholic, Thanks for your point., although I am at a loss to know what it is, save the usual moronic, visceral "religion is crap". Aside from your penetrating insight, have you anything constructive to offer?13. Comment #189152 by Steve Zara on June 5, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Science is science, religion is religion
In science, you can only insert God into the gaps, and even then, WHOSE God?
14. Comment #189157 by Pathfinder on June 5, 2008 at 3:02 pm
I'm confused: I've got one person (Steve Zara) saying there is no overlap with science (with which I BROADLY agree) and another saying I am in favour or concur with the idea of an interventionist God. Can i have some consistency here?15. Comment #189160 by Corylus on June 5, 2008 at 3:12 pm
...another saying I am in favour or concur with the idea of an interventionist God. Can i have some consistency here?No problem. I came to that conclusion because of your self-declaration as a "Christian."
16. Comment #189161 by ricey on June 5, 2008 at 3:14 pm
It's good to get an intelligent perspective from a religious person like Pathfinder, because I'm always open to the possibility that he/she, etc, may be right ... but it needs to be PROVED!17. Comment #189165 by Steve Zara on June 5, 2008 at 3:24 pm
18. Comment #189167 by Pathfinder on June 5, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Ricey and Corylus: Thanks for your response. A couple of corrections, however. Ricey: did you not read what I wrote? Of course the existence of God cannot be proved! I am aware this is insufficient evidence from a scientific standpoint: no falsifiability, no control experiments, no peer-reviewed papers, no (or not much) competing hypotheses apart from the blindingly obvious... And could I hit on the head that old canard about being a Christian, et ergo,19. Comment #189169 by Steve Zara on June 5, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Of course the existence of God cannot be proved! I am aware this is insufficient evidence from a scientific standpoint: no falsifiability, no control experiments, no peer-reviewed papers, no (or not much) competing hypotheses apart from the blindingly obvious...
20. Comment #189172 by Goldy on June 5, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Of course the existence of God cannot be proved!
21. Comment #189173 by phil rimmer on June 5, 2008 at 4:05 pm
I do not believe a religious and a scientific view of the world are mutually exclusive. I do not say, either, that they are interchangeable, like Rosencrantz and Gildernstern. I'm just... aw, it's up to you if you want to engage. I'm to bed.
22. Comment #189174 by Bonzai on June 5, 2008 at 4:06 pm
GoldyOf course the existence of God cannot be proved!
Why not? And if this is true, why the worship? See why I am an athiest? This is completely inconsistent with rationality, yet it has been fed to me from an early age by society as totally normal and, yes, rational.
23. Comment #189175 by acs on June 5, 2008 at 4:12 pm
What's the betting on Steve Zara and Robotowhatisname being lapsed Christians? I can smell it from here! Careful, guys/gals: Old Nich has your names on a ledger!24. Comment #189176 by Pathfinder on June 5, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Steve Zara:regarding your "return" - couldn't have put it better myself!25. Comment #189179 by Goldy on June 5, 2008 at 4:28 pm
To such believers the status of God would be greatly diminished if he can actually be tracked by science and human intellect. It will lose its mystique as a result. They probably wouldn't believe anymore if there is incontrovertible evidence that God exists.
My God is, unconditionally, indubitably, a "God of the gaps".And when the gaps close, he becomes a lesser god. A diminishing god - interesting. Or does your god maintain his stature despite the closing gaps because he is an unknowable god etc, etc?
Personally, I distrust your adamatine certainty there IS NO GOD
26. Comment #189182 by Steve Zara on June 5, 2008 at 4:35 pm
You seem to think I have some kind of divinely-inspired (Christian pathology, in your view) plan to deliberately confound and frustrate you.
I do NOT make any claims about reality that has gone on "uncorroborated... in my own mind".
Personally, I distrust your adamatine certainty there IS NO GOD.
27. Comment #189183 by huzonfurst on June 5, 2008 at 4:46 pm
Acs, all people have emotions, so why do you get judgmental on someone when they admit to having them? At least Pathfinder is being honest (and the word used was "despise" not "hate," unless I missed it somewhere).28. Comment #189184 by Bonzai on June 5, 2008 at 4:53 pm
PathfinderThat means I am proceeding from a position of RELATIVE unknowability. Personally, I distrust your adamatine certainty there IS NO GOD. Just as I distrust those on "my side" who insist THERE IS A GOD .
29. Comment #189185 by Quine on June 5, 2008 at 4:58 pm
What's the betting on Steve Zara and Robotowhatisname being lapsed Christians? I can smell it from here! Careful, guys/gals: Old Nich has your names on a ledger!
30. Comment #189187 by Steve Zara on June 5, 2008 at 5:06 pm
P.S. to Steve Zara: "You'll be back."
31. Comment #189188 by phil rimmer on June 5, 2008 at 5:09 pm
You seem to think I have some kind of divinely-inspired...
I was brought up an Episcopalian and I...
The reason is...
actually I think I'll be a bit sadistic and let you hang there! Manana.
32. Comment #189190 by Healyhatman on June 5, 2008 at 5:31 pm
Ha! Should have the right to teach what they believe in? What about the children's right to a decent and proper education, should that come second to the teachers wish not be offended by what they have to teach?33. Comment #189196 by Christopher Davis on June 5, 2008 at 6:56 pm
34. Comment #189200 by Quine on June 5, 2008 at 7:21 pm
35. Comment #189203 by GordonYKWong on June 5, 2008 at 7:28 pm
24. Comment #189176 by Pathfinder on June 5, 2008 at 4:19 pmMy question to you is quite silly but I still think it is worth asking.
My God is, unconditionally, indubitably, a "God of the gaps". That means I am proceeding from a position of RELATIVE unknowability. Personally, I distrust your adamatine certainty there IS NO GOD. Just as I distrust those on "my side" who insist THERE IS A GOD.
36. Comment #189204 by Christopher Davis on June 5, 2008 at 7:32 pm
37. Comment #189249 by Macropus on June 5, 2008 at 10:36 pm
Sigh,38. Comment #189296 by PJG on June 6, 2008 at 1:35 am
One questioner asked Myers whether that meant Brown University biologist Ken Miller, who has often said his passionate defense of evolution doesn't conflict with his religious beliefs, was being a wishy-washy scientist?
"No," Myers answered wryly, "I think Ken Miller is a wishy-washy Catholic."
39. Comment #189376 by Incredulous on June 6, 2008 at 6:36 am
Comment #189187 by Steve ZaraI do feel an increasing need to get away from the same old arguments.
40. Comment #189507 by Tom Coward on June 6, 2008 at 11:29 am
Re comments further up about modern theists wanting to believe only in an unprovable god. Do you recall the Douglas Adams "Babel Fish" proof of the non-existence of god?41. Comment #189516 by 7Fred7 on June 6, 2008 at 11:48 am
"Teachers should have the right to teach what they believe is right"42. Comment #189562 by Border Collie on June 6, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Don't waste your time arguing with Christians. Don't waste your money on Expelled.
1. Comment #189073 by Ansu on June 5, 2008 at 11:08 am
or logic, or anything that is not what they believe in.
Isnt that the definition of Truthiness?
Other Comments by Ansu