Complex Synapses Drove Brain Evolution2. Comment #190490 by rod-the-farmer on June 9, 2008 at 7:41 am
3. Comment #190491 by DamnDirtyApe on June 9, 2008 at 7:41 am
4. Comment #190494 by Steve Zara on June 9, 2008 at 7:46 am
Our brains are insane, complex things.
5. Comment #190510 by irate_atheist on June 9, 2008 at 8:08 am
6. Comment #190514 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 9, 2008 at 8:13 am
There can't be that much initial complexity in the brain, as there are only around 20-30,000 genes in our genome. Not enough for much software :)That seems like plenty enough considering their complex interactions. Am I wrong?
7. Comment #190515 by Styrer- on June 9, 2008 at 8:13 am
The big building blocks evolved before big brains
8. Comment #190519 by stephenray on June 9, 2008 at 8:18 am
RodTheFarmer:9. Comment #190520 by Steve13 on June 9, 2008 at 8:19 am
Hi this is my first post10. Comment #190553 by mordacious1 on June 9, 2008 at 8:51 am
Steve1311. Comment #190568 by Steve Zara on June 9, 2008 at 8:59 am
12. Comment #190770 by Styrer- on June 9, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Comment #190568 by Steve Zara on June 9, 2008 at 8:59 am13. Comment #190772 by Steve Crawley on June 9, 2008 at 2:32 pm
No scientist, I had often wondered what sparked the huge increase in size of human brains.
14. Comment #190782 by Styrer- on June 9, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Comment #190772 by Steve Crawley on June 9, 2008 at 2:32 pm
15. Comment #190814 by NakedCelt on June 9, 2008 at 3:57 pm
Comment #190515 by Styrer-:No scientist, I had often wondered what sparked the huge increase in size of human brains.I'm not a scientist, but isn't the article talking about an increase in complexity somewhere between the first vertebrate and the first mammal?
This fits.
To all you scientists - how controversial does this seem to you? See any holes?
16. Comment #190929 by Obecalp on June 9, 2008 at 11:54 pm
Steve Zara: "Probably not initially. They end up that way as we learn.17. Comment #190944 by Buddha on June 10, 2008 at 1:23 am
18. Comment #190968 by irate_atheist on June 10, 2008 at 2:35 am
No scientist, I had often wondered what sparked the huge increase in size of human brains.It rings a bell with me that someone (Dawkins) once said that each step of an evolutionary process merely builds on what is already there and doesn't really 'invent' things (Creotards - please don't misunderstand this idea - thank you). Interesting to see how that the different paths taken by vertebrates/invertebrates evolution has impacted on the basic building blocks for intelligence.
This fits.
19. Comment #190974 by Laurie Fraser on June 10, 2008 at 3:02 am
20. Comment #191020 by Mozglubov on June 10, 2008 at 5:53 am
I just wanted to quickly point out before I head off to work that the infant brain is, in many ways, more complex than the adult brain (I guess it depends on your definition of complexity). A large portion of the learning we do in our early lives depends on synaptic pruning. Basically, we start off with more connexions between neurons than are necessary, and then gradually trim them down to isolate correct and appropriate synergies.21. Comment #191112 by irate_atheist on June 10, 2008 at 8:35 am
Then, you really watch the development carefully; unburdened, as you are, with the day-to-day chore of just keeping them alive.:)Pah! Who says I try to keep him alive?! I'm one of those morality-free atheists, don't you know? Someone who can't be good because there's no god.
22. Comment #191116 by Steve Zara on June 10, 2008 at 8:49 am
That's hardly an argument. For an instance there are only very few genes responsible for making antibodies (the tiny protein fragments which, among other functions, can neutralize a pathogen), but still a human being is able to generate a staggering diversity of 10^18 different (!) antibodies!
By the way, are you implying that a newborns brain is NOT extremely complex???
The Human genome needs to be viewed as a computer Operating System rather than a recipe book. A computer programming language may have only a few dozen instructions, but it's the combination and interaction of those instructions that provide the infinite variety of software applications.
I just wanted to quickly point out before I head off to work that the infant brain is, in many ways, more complex than the adult brain (I guess it depends on your definition of complexity)
23. Comment #191124 by Buddha on June 10, 2008 at 9:02 am
One thing we can be pretty sure that the genome is NOT like is an operating system. Just about all software systems we know are very fragile - change a single character and it is possible to bring the whole thing down. Living systems (including the brain) are robust. Major parts can be damaged and changed, and they carry on.
24. Comment #191130 by Steve Zara on June 10, 2008 at 9:16 am
It was an analogy rather than a literal comparison I was making, though there are some point mutations in genomes that are extremely deleterious to the organism. The main advantage that DNA/RNA has over Windows Vista is it's ability to repair damage and errors in it's coding. Computer scientists have started using similar biological techniques to develop resilient software for mission critical apps.
25. Comment #191136 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 10, 2008 at 9:25 am
Yes, that is just what I am saying. Brains develop as a result of learing and nerve stimulation.
A potential way to look at a very, very young brain is like a huge disk drive. Vast amounts of the same structures (neurones/magnetic domains), ready to store information, and as a result, contain complexity.
26. Comment #191145 by Steve Zara on June 10, 2008 at 9:37 am
A Blank Slate?
27. Comment #191216 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 10, 2008 at 11:54 am
Close to it, yes.How do you explain things like differences in intelligence and physical ability etc with this model. How do you explain the existence of specific areas of the brain common to all humans that always perform the same types of processing?
However, during development, various parts of the brain will have been stimulated by the various nerves that attach to it, and in the womb the fetus will have experienced warmth, touch, and sound, so not quite blank.
28. Comment #191243 by Steve13 on June 10, 2008 at 1:03 pm
I think i can clear up what my fellow Steve is saying if i may be so bold, by drawing on his analogy to sculpting the brain. Genetic predispositions can be seen as potentials much like a piece of clay without the environmental stimulus nothing happens. With clay you are limited by the quality and how much clay you have this is analogous to gentic predispositions limit intelligence,personality and other things. I think Blank Slate is a bad word for it its more like a scaffolding where the building being built plans are constantly being change by the environment stimulus but its always gonna be affected by the postions of the scaffolding. Or at least thats how I've come to understand it29. Comment #191275 by Buddha on June 10, 2008 at 1:39 pm
I didn't mean to be too critical, but I don't believe that genome can be anything like the same kind of thing as software. I say this as a programmer with 40 years experience (!). It is far more like a robust recipe.
1. Comment #190456 by sciatheist on June 9, 2008 at 6:21 am
Quality is better than quantity. That's what I get from this article. I think it is interesting that people often use quantity in arguments as a support (ex. Because there are so many more people that believe in god than those who don't, therefore, believing in god is the smarter thing to do). Although this study is purely biological I think I can extend it to conclude that the first point in general is often right.Other Comments by sciatheist