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Monday, June 9, 2008 | Reason : Wingnut News | print version Print | Comments |

Document Logical Proof of the Existence of a Divine Creator, Why Atheism is Not Logically Sound

by Canada Free Press

Thanks to Clayton Smith for the link.

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/3426

Logical Proof of the Existence of a Divine Creator, Why Atheism is Not Logically Sound

One of the beautiful aspects of self evident truths is that they can be proven on both the simplest and the most complex of levels. By contrast, to make an argument for what is in fact an illogical fallacy, one must use plenty of skill, sophistry and remain beholden to a dogmatic protection of what is really an illogical position.

Yet even after a detailed case is made for the illogical side of the argument, it can instantly be deflated like a balloon with the simplest poke of clear logic. It can also be attacked piece by piece with even greater skill and logic, stemming from a steadfast pursuit of the truth.

Nowhere does the above hold more true than with regard to the existence of a Divine Creator. Proof of a conscious Creator is readily available. The simplest proof (yet one that no atheist has ever been able to counter effectively) is that a universe of this size and magnitude does not somehow build itself, just as a set of encyclopedias doesn't write itself or form randomly from the spill of a massive inkblot.

The atheist, on the other hand, needs to build a plausible case for this irrational scenario. But first, let's examine how irrational it is:

No one in their right mind would claim that 10,000 hundred story buildings built themselves from randomness, even over time. Yet those who doubt the existence of a Creator believe that an entire universe, containing all of the billions of elements necessary for life to form, may have come about without a builder. As such, they give credence to billions of times more coincidences to having come about.

They believe that not only did whole planets appear spontaneously, but also believe that the fact that these planets do not collide as meteors do, that they have gravity, that they contain the proper atmospheric conditions for life to take hold and contain sustenance to sustain this life all happened by mere fluke. Yet the same people would (rightly) denounce as preposterous the notion that the Egyptian pyramids built themselves. They would point to the structure and detailed design of these impressive inanimate objects. Yet they outrageously chalk up to coincidence billions upon billions of times more detail and design in all parts of life found in this universe.

To be sure, someone can build sandcastles in the sky on how the spontaneous coming together of molecules, then turning into bricks, changing further into buildings, culminating in 10,000 perfectly aligned skyscrapers all built with no builder is a plausible scenario. They can form intricate arguments to support this theory. But in the end, the entire proposition remains offensive to logic itself.

While there are complex proofs of the Divine, some dating back to the philosophical writings of Plato and others using modern science, the most clearly logical concepts are all readily apparent and simple. An entire world does not create itself.

Furthermore, proof of a Divine creator can be seen more readily in the small and intricate details of the universe than by considering the enormity of the universe as a whole.

Consider the following:

Even if all the planets somehow formed themselves, all somehow staying in perfect orbit and possessing gravity, even take for granted that all the chemicals needed for life were so how there as well, by sheer happenstance, would it then be possible for billions of species to spontaneously come about, each with a male and female of each kind so that they could exist in the long run?

Even if this were possible, would the simplest of animals have been able to survive were it missing even one essential organ? Would human beings survive if one organ or cavity was missing or displaced, even after somehow being otherwise perfectly formed with no designer? The simple fact is that even if humans were so perfectly formed, if food, water, sunlight or any one of a host of details necessary for life to exist were somehow missing, human life would have lasted on this planet for a maximum of a few days.

The contention of atheists, that life simply adapted to the conditions it found itself in is also irrational, as were this to be the case we'd have animals that could solely subsist on snow and ice in some regions. By contrast, the ability to adapt to small conditional changes is also a fascinating aspect of the body, one that shows that much detail was put into its design.

The central point of the atheist, that all somehow came about randomly through evolution, does not help them either. While a separate column will deal with the scientific arguments for creationism and evolution, the topic is not germane here. Going back to the example of a set of encyclopedias, a set of Britannicas does not write itself, not from one massive ink blot and not starting out as dots, which form letters, which align into perfect phrases, paragraphs, books and sets. In fact, it's even more incredulous to say that they aligned so perfectly, step by step and dot by dot than it is to say that all appeared at once. Yet that's what the atheist contends when he chalks up life's existence to gradual and detailed formation with no Creator at the helm.

However, despite the fact that even after much debate on the issue I have yet to meet an atheist who can make even a feeble argument to counter any of these points, they often feel that such grounded proofs aren't complicated enough. Just as a man who spends years coming up with a thousand reasons why an elephant is really a duck will not be persuaded of his error without first addressing all of his complicated fallacies, so too the atheist's contentions must be addressed in detail. For this reason, we will also address some of the more detailed proofs of the existence of the Divine.

Of the many philosophic and scientific arguments brought forth for the existence of the Divine, three stand out. The anthropic argument contends that the universe is too complex to have no Creator. This is in effect the central point of this column, although explained in a more common manner. The cosmological argument maintains that finite matter (original matter, which was clearly finite) cannot create a universe that is greater than itself. Especially compelling is the teleological argument, that the existence of a Creator can be seen from the fact that the universe works in perfect harmony, as would a giant machine. Gravity, orbits, chemical atmospheres and all other ingredients needed for life to exist come together in unison to allow such existence to happen. An enormous machine that works like clockwork needs to have a Creator.

The atheist would also do well to read Anthony Flew's latest book, "There is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind." For decades, Flew was one of the leading proponents of atheism. But he eventually decided to give everything a second look and found that all he'd believed and so vociferously advocated for so long was wrong. Upon real analysis, he found that there is, in fact, proof of the Divine.

THE TRUTH OF OUR SIDE AND THE REAL CHALLENGE TO DEBATING ATHEISTS

But all of these reasons, in reality, are unnecessary. The youngest school child can tell you that a building does not build itself and that, by extension, neither does a universe. And this is the beauty of self evident truths. After all the proofs and reasoning in the world, they remain just as self evident, just as they are also, on the deepest levels, thoroughly profound. Here too, all that is needed to demonstrate proof of a Creator is that the world doesn't create itself, not instantly and not over time. All other issues can then be examined in that light.

However, we must realize that while the sophistry it takes to purport a falsehood can be easily countered, the person who has upheld such notions for decades must have each of his or her counterpoints addressed. This is able to be done smoothly, in light of the inherent logic that necessitates the existence of a conscious Creator, but it must be done thoroughly.

Encouraging atheists to open their minds to pure logic and to possibilities that they hitherto only sought to counter or to avoid on any pretext also involves an emotional challenge for them, as they must open themselves to the possibility of having to shed preconceived notions that they've held firm for decades. And that, rather than facts, is the primary challenge to exposing them to insightful logic. However, if they are willing to address the issue honestly, a search for the truth should be of paramount importance and enough reason for them to take an open look.

NOT RELIGION AND SCIENCE, BUT RELIGION AND SCIENTISTS

Scientists as a whole are increasingly open to the idea of a conscious Creator. They realize that science points to the complexity of the universe, a complexity that dictates the inevitability of a Creator. However, some stick to old ways and old dogmas. A question that arises is why these seemingly logical people possess such illogical beliefs. This fact alone has prevented many from considering the existence of a Creator. But when we understand the reason for their animus to belief, their bias comes to the forefront as opposed to any reasoned argument.

Throughout the 20th century, many scientists were enthralled with the progress that science had made. They mistakenly believed that the physical universe, instead of being a creation, contained all answers in and of itself. Any questions would be resolved by science. To look beyond that was viewed in disdain. The fact that logic necessitates that physical matter must have originated at some point and that a formed universe cannot emerge without a designer was overlooked in the hope that physical science would prove the impossible.

Other scientists, today a greater number than the more dogmatic former group, conceded that there may well be a Creator. But they were wholly disinterested in the subject. They too did not realize that our physical universe points to the fact that it was consciously designed. And many of them had the same rigid disdain for religion as the former.

What's true of both groups is that they refused to consider the subject. As such, their rejection of a Creator does not stem from some well reasoned research or thought, but rather from the absence of such reasoning. Their knowledge of religion and philosophy was on par with their knowledge of economics or any other subject that they had never studied. They knew as much about religion as they knew how to paint a house, the only difference between the two being that had they delved into the former instead of reflexively dismissing it, they would have found it to be of profound logic and give depth to their other areas of study.

But these scientists did not give religious or philosophical questions a moment's notice. And what becomes abundantly clear from their statements on the issue is that they have grave misconceptions about religion, misconceptions that stem from their lack of interest. And while it is their right to do so, reflexively and often emotionally dismissing a belief without giving it a moment's thought isn't logic, but rather the opposite of logic.

To be sure, these scientists are indeed very logical and analytical within their main doctrine. It's just that they refuse to examine that which transcends it. As such, anyone who gives credence their views on this issue should beware, as their opinions do not stem from logic. Scientists who have thought over the issue are generally in agreement on this as well.

THE BIBLE

One cannot conclude a column like this without mentioning philosophical and logical proofs of the Divinity of the Bible, the Torah. To begin with, the Bible is the only book in the history of mankind to make the claim that part of it was given by the Creator in front of an entire nation (of 600,000 families, totaling a few million people).

If someone were to come along today with a book, claiming that its Divine transmission had been witnessed by millions of people, they'd be laughed out of the room. One cannot convince an entire nation, including its greatest analytical thinkers and its most ardent skeptics, that such a transmission occurred and had been witnessed by them when it hadn't. To those who would counter "What if the Bible came along a few hundred years later?" (claiming to have been witnessed a few hundred years back), such a claim would have been met with equal ridicule, just as a book claiming to have been given by the Creator, as witnessed by millions in the 1700s would be met with ridicule today. There would have been a well known history of such a happening. Simply put, a book that claims to have been Divinely given to millions cannot take hold on a widespread level if it is not true.

That's a basic philosophical case. There are also more hard physical reasons that point to the Bible's Divinity. The Bible states in Genesis and in Jeremiah that the stars of the heaven cannot be counted. Scientists believed that the number of stars were only 1,100, those which could readily be seen. The Bible was way ahead of the time it was given and showed knowledge of that which could not have been known or seen by man.

The Bible also attested to the laws of thermodynamics, a field that science only hammered out thousands of years later. The first law of thermodynamics is that the total sum of matter and energy in the universe can never change. Energy can change into matter and vice versa, but their combined sum is always constant. Until this discovery, the Bible's statement that "there is nothing new under sun" seemed like a statement that was ready to be disproven. Reasoning went that somewhere in the universe there must be new energy or matter developing. But there wasn't. Universally accepted science showed us that less than 200 years ago. The Bible told us that about 3,000 years before.

More compelling is the Bible's clear attestation to the second law of thermodynamics (which was originally the first principle of this field, formulated by Sadi Carnot in 1824). This is that physicality becomes increasingly random and broken apart. Psalm 102 speaks of the heavens and the earth perishing and clearly implies a gradual decay, telling us this law well before it was discovered.

It should be noted here, at least for the sake of accuracy, that the Bible also speaks of a new heaven and earth, meaning a newly fortified one, after the Divine presence is revealed. Such a heaven and earth will exist continuously according to most Biblical commentary, but will reveal their Divine Creator within them. Eventual perfection of the world, after we've been given a chance to do our part, is a key tenet of most religion and is the only logical explanation for the Creation of a world in need of perfection. Such an advent also seems closer than ever according to any study of what the Bible says about its occurrence, especially in view of the rapid and radical changes the world has undergone in the last few decades alone. However, the physical universe as it stands now is in a slow state of decay (before it is refortified), a fact that only the Bible knew for thousands of years.

It should be noted that although this column is comparatively lengthy, it is still only a column and barely scratches the surface of the clear proofs that evidence the existence of the Divine and the Divine nature of the Bible, the Torah. The reader is encouraged to study further and to ask questions.


Yomin Postelnik is the President of IRPW, a company that offers business plans, funding advice and facilitation, SBA loan applications, SWOT analyses, bold and effective marketing strategies, general business development and grant writing and research for non-profits and certain qualified businesses. Call today for an initial consultation � (954) 946-4442 or email ypostelnik@InsidersReview.org

Comments 1 - 50 of 374 |

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1. Comment #190536 by black wolf on June 9, 2008 at 8:40 am

 avatarThis idiocy of wasted words resembles any Ray Comfort blog entry in its inaneness. It rehashes pseudo-arguments that have been long refuted. The 'challenge' it poses is so old it's reeking and liquifying. The logical fallacies climb over each other to waste the reader's time. If this is what passes for a reasoned, logical argument for believers, all it does is prove that they don't have the first clue what logic is.

Other Comments by black wolf

2. Comment #190537 by Steve13 on June 9, 2008 at 8:41 am

Hi i'm new
Wow this article is bad but i did find out something new the bible attests for the 2nd law of thermodynamics apparently

Other Comments by Steve13

3. Comment #190538 by entheogensmurf on June 9, 2008 at 8:41 am

 avatarThey used every argument which has failed. I may take the time to actually respond fully to this silly article.

I wonder if they even know what atheist/atheism actually means.

Oh well, at least it almost amused me (by the lack of surprise) to see that They have nothing new to challenge the mind.

Other Comments by entheogensmurf

4. Comment #190539 by forksmuggler on June 9, 2008 at 8:42 am

 avatarSame old same old.

Other Comments by forksmuggler

5. Comment #190541 by clunkclickeverytrip on June 9, 2008 at 8:43 am

Rubbish of the first order.

Other Comments by clunkclickeverytrip

6. Comment #190542 by healthphysicist on June 9, 2008 at 8:44 am

YAWN, YAWN.

The only "new" argument that the Jews have as compared to the other religions is the giving of the Torah in front of 600,000 families.

However, it is the Torah that makes that claim and it wouldn't be difficult for a small tribe to write that and then teach it to their kids. There are also conflicts within the Torah as to whether the people actually "saw" anything.

What a bunch of bull.

Other Comments by healthphysicist

7. Comment #190543 by mordacious1 on June 9, 2008 at 8:44 am

 avatarSame old tripe, instead of a 747 it's 10,000 hundred story buildings. Rehash, repeat, regurgitate. on and on and on and on....

Other Comments by mordacious1

8. Comment #190544 by mind hypnotized on June 9, 2008 at 8:44 am

 avatarAnthony Flew? I read that book. It was barely more than 120 or so pages long (double-spaced, with wide margins, I might add). It was so devoid of any real content or argument. Actually, it looked very similar to the first half of this article. Allow me to demonstrate by summarizing the central argument of that book (and, apparently, this "original" article).

Look around, dude.... Random? NOOOO WAAAYYYY!

Okay, so that's a bit of a strawman, but my point is still the same. Confusing pure randomness with the processes at work in big bang physics and evolutionary biology is an even worse fallacy than my strawman.

Other Comments by mind hypnotized

9. Comment #190546 by Ygern on June 9, 2008 at 8:44 am

 avatarGood grief.

The author gets it wrong on so counts I don't know where to begin. He's not so much barking up the wrong tree, as in the wrong forest..

Proof of a conscious Creator is readily available ... my foot.

Other Comments by Ygern

10. Comment #190548 by AllanW on June 9, 2008 at 8:48 am

 avatarOh man; so many words that can be reduced down to 'the argument from personal incredulity'.

Other Comments by AllanW

11. Comment #190550 by Steve13 on June 9, 2008 at 8:49 am

Somebody should tell this author that Paley's watch stopped a long time ago

Other Comments by Steve13

12. Comment #190551 by Badger3k on June 9, 2008 at 8:50 am

To be honest, as soon as I saw the argument from incredulity as the first, absolutely-most-stunning-fantastic-argument-that-prove-atheists-wrong point, well, I stopped reading. Anyone who thinks that is the best evidence isn't worth the read.

Yawn.

Other Comments by Badger3k

13. Comment #190552 by Diacanu on June 9, 2008 at 8:50 am

 avatar

The simplest proof (yet one that no atheist has ever been able to counter effectively) is that a universe of this size and magnitude does not somehow build itself, just as a set of encyclopedias doesn't write itself or form randomly from the spill of a massive inkblot.


Argument from design; failing right out of the gate here.


No one in their right mind would claim...


Argument from personal incredulity.
Bored already.


While there are complex proofs of the Divine,...


Ah, here we go, finally something interesting.


some dating back...


Ah...same old dusty theological shit....

*Skims past tired design arguments*


that all somehow came about randomly through evolution,...


Evolution by natural selection isn't random.
*Yawn*


I have yet to meet an atheist who can make even a feeble argument to counter any of these points,...


Liar.


The anthropic argument


Utter crap.


The cosmological argument


Asscrap.


the teleological argument,


Bullshittery.


The atheist would also do well to read Anthony Flew's latest book,


A hoax, and exploitation of a dying old man.
I'm sickened now.


But all of these reasons, in reality, are unnecessary. The youngest school child can tell you that a building does not build itself and that, by extension, neither does a universe.


And the youngest school child will also ask "who made God?", and he'll never recieve an answer.
Or if he does, he'll get a bullshit one.

*Skips throught to the end as I'm genuinely nausiated now*

Ah, the author is a marketing asshole, there's a shocker.

Other Comments by Diacanu

14. Comment #190554 by Steve13 on June 9, 2008 at 8:52 am

Anthony Flew is a deist now and he didn't even write that book if i'm not mistaken

Other Comments by Steve13

15. Comment #190555 by Tyler Durden on June 9, 2008 at 8:52 am

 avatarWhat a load of bollox!!

The simplest proof (yet one that no atheist has ever been able to counter effectively) is that a universe of this size and magnitude does not somehow build itself, just as a set of encyclopedias doesn't write itself or form randomly from the spill of a massive inkblot.
The Argument from Design/Personal Incredulity.

NEXT!!

Yomin Postelnik is the President of IRPW, a company that offers business plans, funding advice and facilitation, SBA loan applications, SWOT analyses, bold and effective marketing strategies, general business development and grant writing and research for non-profits and certain qualified businesses.
Ah, that explains it.

Other Comments by Tyler Durden

16. Comment #190556 by dyak on June 9, 2008 at 8:52 am

Great title. Probably one of the best and most clearly worded titles I've ever come across in this debate. Yes indeed. That was a good title. Well done.

Other Comments by dyak

17. Comment #190558 by Fryslan on June 9, 2008 at 8:53 am

Pompous, pontificating, philosophical piffle.

"Simply put, a book that claims to have been Divinely given to millions cannot take hold on a widespread level if it is not true."

Priceless.

Other Comments by Fryslan

18. Comment #190560 by Elles on June 9, 2008 at 8:55 am

 avatarI have one thing to say to that... and it's an action.

*headdesk*

Other Comments by Elles

19. Comment #190561 by Henri Bergson on June 9, 2008 at 8:55 am

 avatarAgainst Anthropic Principle (part of teleological argument):
Kant: inversion of cause and effect: the laws of nature were the cause of life; life was not the (final) cause of the laws of nature.
The river Thames was not created to provide water for London.

Against ontological argument:
Kant: existence is not a predicate, but a condition for predicates.

Against cosmological argument:
if something complicated must come from something complicated, then that applies to that first cause.

And Kant was a Christian!

A lot of error comes from the animal tendency to immediately seek an intention for an effect. A dog assumes an intention behind a random noise and barks. This dog-thinking is the root cause of theology.

Other Comments by Henri Bergson

20. Comment #190563 by Frankus1122 on June 9, 2008 at 8:56 am

 avatar

The central point of the atheist, that all somehow came about randomly through evolution,


I stopped there.

The penny has to drop at some point for these people.
They must come to the realization(or realisation) that their arguments have been successfully refuted.
As I said elsewhere, it is not the case that creationist/Iders know more than 'we' do. They know less. They argue from a position of ignorance.

I read the last line of the article and I agree:

The reader is encouraged to study further and to ask questions.


Other Comments by Frankus1122

21. Comment #190564 by Mango on June 9, 2008 at 8:57 am

 avatar
The contention of atheists, that life simply adapted to the conditions it found itself in is also irrational, as were this to be the case we'd have animals that could solely subsist on snow and ice in some regions.


Enter the ice worm:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_worm

Other Comments by Mango

22. Comment #190567 by Shane McKee on June 9, 2008 at 8:59 am

 avatarGood Lord. How can atheists maintain that an article like that comes from intelligent design, when it is self-evident that the author is an ignorant gibbering buffoon??

Other Comments by Shane McKee

23. Comment #190569 by Edamus on June 9, 2008 at 9:01 am

 avatarSuch a waste of time; to have read this and to have written this...

If I were given $5 for every instance my time is wasted I would be a rich man... we all would.

Other Comments by Edamus

24. Comment #190570 by Peacebeuponme on June 9, 2008 at 9:01 am

A quick summary:

I don't understand how the universe came to be, so god must have done it.

The bible is the best book ever because the bible says so.

The end.

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme

25. Comment #190572 by irate_atheist on June 9, 2008 at 9:02 am

 avatarTotal end-to-end bollocks and lies. Every sentence a lie, a misrepresentation or a display of gross and total ignorance. Complete and utter fucktard territory.


Edit: Did I neglect mention the author is quite clearly a cunt? No? Well, I've redeemed myself in this edit.

Other Comments by irate_atheist

26. Comment #190573 by Tyler Durden on June 9, 2008 at 9:03 am

 avatarPerhaps we could (try to) educate this gentleman by sending him a courteous (but firm) electronic transmission pointing out his (oh so many) obvious errors:

ypostelnik@InsidersReview.org

Other Comments by Tyler Durden

27. Comment #190575 by thewhitepearl on June 9, 2008 at 9:07 am

 avatarI stopped at "consider the following." I can see I'm going to need my cup of java first.

I presume that any old joe can write an article in the canadian free press and have it published?

Oh, he left his e-mail....fun

Other Comments by thewhitepearl

28. Comment #190576 by Diacanu on June 9, 2008 at 9:08 am

 avatarPeacebeuponme-

ROTFL!! Pefect! Couldn't have said it better.

Other Comments by Diacanu

29. Comment #190577 by irate_atheist on June 9, 2008 at 9:08 am

 avatar26. Comment #190573 by Tyler Durden -

Superb idea. A line by line dissection of his bullshit would be good.


Edit: I'm sorry. I forgot to call him a fucking twat.

Other Comments by irate_atheist

30. Comment #190579 by al-rawandi on June 9, 2008 at 9:10 am

 avatartyler, whitepearl,





Do I sense an email campaign coming on?



My emails, in my usualy friendly tone, generally elicit some incredible responses. Make sure you post up the responses you get, assuming you even get them.

I have received the following from a well worded and thought out email:


"Fuck you!"



Love it.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

31. Comment #190580 by artemisa on June 9, 2008 at 9:11 am

How is it possible not to believe that god created the magnificent cosmos in all it's beauty and splendor?
How is it possible not to believe that god created the gorgeous tsunamis in all it's fury?, or the earth shaking earthquakes?, or hurricanes, or plagues?
How can we doubt this splendid creator of everything?
Craps

Other Comments by artemisa

32. Comment #190582 by banksmc on June 9, 2008 at 9:14 am

 avatarAnd here I was, expecting to see a breathtakingly ingenious argument formalised into predicate logic. Instead, I get regurgitated teleological BS. Back to watching the football I guess.

Other Comments by banksmc

33. Comment #190583 by Tyler Durden on June 9, 2008 at 9:14 am

 avatarAl,

In progress... :)

Other Comments by Tyler Durden

34. Comment #190586 by konquererz on June 9, 2008 at 9:21 am

 avatarOnce again some christian shows their complete lack of understanding of the Universe, assuming that is some how complete planned out and structured like a building, instead of loosely structured and full of cosmic anomalies and irregularities. As well, he once again misses the ultimate problem. If it is structured like he says, that in no way gets you closer to the divine creator. It isn't "big bang or god". That isn't the way it works. Even if logically there absolutely must be a creator, you are still obligated to prove the existence of said creator and prove that said creator is indeed divine. Could we not be in someone else's petri dish? And just because you think you found a flaw in one natural explanation, that doesn't exclude all other possible natural explanations.

And then comes the good stuff. How many creators? What is the nature of the creators? Why not an entire group of creators? See, what these people are trying to get to is admittance of the existence of their god. Which their argument still doesn't do.

Other Comments by konquererz

35. Comment #190588 by hungarianelephant on June 9, 2008 at 9:22 am

 avatarIt's wooter, only in English.

Other Comments by hungarianelephant

36. Comment #190589 by DamnDirtyApe on June 9, 2008 at 9:22 am

Why Artemisa, by the same reasoning that leads me to doubt that I am superman: Lack of evidence.

Don't try to fly folks. Ground hurts.

Other Comments by DamnDirtyApe

37. Comment #190590 by riki on June 9, 2008 at 9:24 am

 avatar
The simplest proof (yet one that no atheist has ever been able to counter effectively) is that a universe of this size and magnitude does not somehow build itself, just as a set of encyclopedias doesn't write itself or form randomly from the spill of a massive inkblot.


I see this kind of annoying logic used a lot. Science can't explain why there is something rather than nothing, therefore my whacked-out, untestable, fantasies must be true.

Other Comments by riki

38. Comment #190593 by nickthelight on June 9, 2008 at 9:26 am

 avatarI don't understand evolution, so god did it. What an idiot.

Other Comments by nickthelight

39. Comment #190594 by robotaholic on June 9, 2008 at 9:27 am

 avatar
That's a basic philosophical case. There are also more hard physical reasons that point to the Bible's Divinity. The Bible states in Genesis and in Jeremiah that the stars of the heaven cannot be counted. Scientists believed that the number of stars were only 1,100, those which could readily be seen. The Bible was way ahead of the time it was given and showed knowledge of that which could not have been known or seen by man.


Wow, this is so stupid. In Genesis, the earth is created (1:1) before light (1:3), sun and stars (1:16); birds and whales (1:21) before reptiles and insects (1:24); and flowering plants (1:11) before any animals (1:20). The order of events known from science is in each case just the opposite. (1:3-5, 14-19) "Let there be light"
God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day (1:14-19). And how could there be "the evening and the morning" on the first day if there was no sun to mark them!!!! -

I wonder why this guy didn't mention any of this?

No, what you witnessed is Cherry Picking - exactly as Dawkins describes it-

Other Comments by robotaholic

40. Comment #190596 by james1v on June 9, 2008 at 9:30 am

 avatarSooo, just the bible and Torah are true?? The Koran etc, all bollocks? Why not address this message to Muslims, Hindus, deists or any other non Torah/bible believing religious people? Why pick out atheists for this message? I bet i know which religion this man supports! Come on friend... walk into your nearest mosque and proclaim your views.

Other Comments by james1v

41. Comment #190598 by HandyGeek on June 9, 2008 at 9:30 am

 avatarYAWN

Same old arguments and still on the treadmill of nonsense.

Other Comments by HandyGeek

42. Comment #190599 by Aztek on June 9, 2008 at 9:30 am

 avatarSorry, I can't help it. It's bubbling inside of me. Here it comes:
HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA...gasp...HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Yeah, I know I should be mad instead. The man seemes to be serious, and there are people who actually believe what he writes. But at this point I can't help laughing my guts out. The text is just so ridiculous.

I naturally googled him up:
Apparently some fan of his has writen this about dear Yomin on Wikipedia:
"Most recently he was involved in an indepth debate on atheism and evolutionary science, taking place in May 2008. The debate was proposed by Postelnik after several atheists took points Postelnik had made in a non-related column out of context. Postelnik brought several factors pointing to the existence of a Divine Creator and posed several strong questions on Darwinian Theory and is viewed by most readers of the transcript as having effectively countered the arguments of the atheist debaters. The transcript is available at Myth Debunker."

Other Comments by Aztek

43. Comment #190600 by riki on June 9, 2008 at 9:31 am

 avatar@ robotaholic

When you just let go and "believe" it will all make perfect sense. :)

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44. Comment #190606 by DavidJGrossman on June 9, 2008 at 9:35 am

 avatar"Yomin Postelnik is the President of IRPW, a company that offers business plans, funding advice and facilitation, SBA loan applications, SWOT analyses, bold and effective marketing strategies, general business development and grant writing and research for non-profits and certain qualified businesses"

Well, that explains it. Why do people publish such obvious nonsense?

- Dave

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45. Comment #190608 by aprilmb on June 9, 2008 at 9:37 am

Oh, man! Couldn't get past the first couple of lines of this BS. But when I saw the end it all becames clear - it's nothing but free advertising. It's an old ploy that you can get past some lazy editors - write an article, no matter what idiocy. It fills the paper and you get to put your name, address, business description and contact information at the end Of course it doesn't preclude the fact that this guy probably believes this crap, but that's immaterial. Unfortunately, there are tons of people who will hold this up as, pardon me, gospel because it was in the paper.
Who the heck would use this guy's services to create a successful business? Don't you actually need logic to be effective?

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46. Comment #190609 by Diacanu on June 9, 2008 at 9:38 am

 avatarDavidJGrossman-


Why do people publish such obvious nonsense?


Hmm, the obviousness of the nonsense makes me wonder if the publishers are secretly agents for our side who deliberatly propped this guy up for our firing squad.

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47. Comment #190611 by camoguard on June 9, 2008 at 9:39 am

 avatarI had a watch that made the same argument. You can tell time by watching the universe and by glancing at your wrist. Therefore they must both be manufactured in China.

But there are in fact Swiss watches and pieces of our brain designed to keep time and I can't credit the Chinese for that.

So the trick of it is: the planets are awefuly far away and the absence of a Made in China sticker does not in fact remove that possibility. Despite that possibility, I think the likelihood of that is low and I will move on with my life.

If God really wants into my life, it really would have to appear to me in front of 600,000 families, repeatedly with a variety of different environments and after eating a variety of different foods prepared by different cooks in an effort to weed out drug effects. So it could prove me wrong if 1) it wanted to and 2) it existed. I think the likelihood of that is low and I will move on with my life.

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48. Comment #190613 by Diacanu on June 9, 2008 at 9:42 am

 avataraprilmb-


Who the heck would use this guy's services to create a successful business? Don't you actually need logic to be effective?


...you're kidding me, right?

Haven't you watched a TV commercial in the past 30 years, or an infomercial in the past 20??

Marketing is the martial arts of dishonesty.

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49. Comment #190616 by thewhitepearl on June 9, 2008 at 9:45 am

 avatarAl-Rawandi,

Oh it's on like donkey kong. I'll keep you in the loop!

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50. Comment #190617 by MBC Morgan on June 9, 2008 at 9:45 am

Would human beings survive if one organ or cavity was missing or displaced, even after somehow being otherwise perfectly formed with no designer?
Well, it's not a perfect refutation, but I'm shy a gall bladder and an appendix, doing just fine, thanks.

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