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George W Bush meets Pope amid claims he might convert to Catholicism
by Times Online
Thanks to Linda Ward Selbie for the link.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/2122733/George-W-Bush-meets-Pope-amid-claims-he-might-convert-to-Catholicism.html
George W Bush meets Pope amid claims he might convert to Catholicism
By Malcolm Moore in Rome
George W Bush and Pope Benedict XVI have held an intimate meeting in Rome as rumours mounted in Italy that the president may follow in Tony Blair's footsteps and convert to Catholicism.
The two men spoke for half an hour in the 12th century Tower of St John, a private area in the Vatican gardens which is used by the pope for private reflection.
The usual protocol for heads-of-state is a meeting in the pope's library in the Apostolic Palace, but a spokesman for the Vatican said Benedict wanted to reward Mr Bush for the "warmth" of his reception at the White House earlier this year.
The two men have grown increasingly close in the past two years, and Mr Bush was overheard whispering: "What an honour, what an honour, what an honour!" as he ascended the steps to the tower.
After a stroll through the Vatican gardens, the men listened to a recital by the choir of the Sistine Chapel. However, Mr Bush did not, as expected, kneel in prayer before the Grotto of the Madonna of Lourdes. It was thought that he may have prayed with the pope in private. Mr Bush prayed with Benedict in the Oval Office during the Papal visit to the US in April.
Several Italian newspapers cited Vatican sources suggesting that Mr Bush may be prepared to convert. One source told Il Foglio, an authoritative newspaper, that "Anything is possible, especially for a born-again Christian such as Bush."
He added that while the Holy See deplored the war in Iraq, "on ethical matters he has always had a line that is practically identical to that of the Vatican." Mr Bush has spoken out against gay marriage, abortion and stem cell research. He proposed amending the US constitution to "fully protect marriage" as the "union of man and woman as husband and wife".
He has repeatedly made clear his admiration for Benedict and has even claimed to have read some of the pope's theological books.
A source close to the Vatican said that Mr Bush was the most "Catholic-minded" president since John F Kennedy, who famously played down his Catholicism. Mr Bush belongs to a Methodist church in Texas and prays at an Episcopal church in Washington.
However, George William Rutler, a New York-based priest who is close to the president, was quoted by the Washington Post earlier this year saying that Mr Bush "is not unaware of how evangelism, by comparison with Catholicism, may seem more limited both theologically and historically".
Mr Bush has filled the White House with Catholic speech-writers and consultants and is also thought to have asked a Catholic priest to bless the West Wing.
Before he became president, Karl Rove, his former political adviser, invited Catholic intellectuals to Texas to lecture the candidate on the church's teachings. Mr Bush appointed the Catholic judges Samuel Alito and John Roberts to the Supreme Court.
However, it is thought unlikely that Mr Bush would convert until after he has left office. Jeb Bush, the president's brother, has already converted to Catholicism.
Catholics have noted that during the contested election in 2000, Jeb Bush travelled to Mexico and prayed to the icon of Our Lady of Guadelupe. His victory was announced by the Supreme Court on December 12, the feast day of the Lady of Guadelupe.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/2122733/George-W-Bush-meets-Pope-amid-claims-he-might-convert-to-Catholicism.html
George W Bush meets Pope amid claims he might convert to Catholicism
By Malcolm Moore in Rome
George W Bush and Pope Benedict XVI have held an intimate meeting in Rome as rumours mounted in Italy that the president may follow in Tony Blair's footsteps and convert to Catholicism.
The two men spoke for half an hour in the 12th century Tower of St John, a private area in the Vatican gardens which is used by the pope for private reflection.
The usual protocol for heads-of-state is a meeting in the pope's library in the Apostolic Palace, but a spokesman for the Vatican said Benedict wanted to reward Mr Bush for the "warmth" of his reception at the White House earlier this year.
The two men have grown increasingly close in the past two years, and Mr Bush was overheard whispering: "What an honour, what an honour, what an honour!" as he ascended the steps to the tower.
After a stroll through the Vatican gardens, the men listened to a recital by the choir of the Sistine Chapel. However, Mr Bush did not, as expected, kneel in prayer before the Grotto of the Madonna of Lourdes. It was thought that he may have prayed with the pope in private. Mr Bush prayed with Benedict in the Oval Office during the Papal visit to the US in April.
Several Italian newspapers cited Vatican sources suggesting that Mr Bush may be prepared to convert. One source told Il Foglio, an authoritative newspaper, that "Anything is possible, especially for a born-again Christian such as Bush."
He added that while the Holy See deplored the war in Iraq, "on ethical matters he has always had a line that is practically identical to that of the Vatican." Mr Bush has spoken out against gay marriage, abortion and stem cell research. He proposed amending the US constitution to "fully protect marriage" as the "union of man and woman as husband and wife".
He has repeatedly made clear his admiration for Benedict and has even claimed to have read some of the pope's theological books.
A source close to the Vatican said that Mr Bush was the most "Catholic-minded" president since John F Kennedy, who famously played down his Catholicism. Mr Bush belongs to a Methodist church in Texas and prays at an Episcopal church in Washington.
However, George William Rutler, a New York-based priest who is close to the president, was quoted by the Washington Post earlier this year saying that Mr Bush "is not unaware of how evangelism, by comparison with Catholicism, may seem more limited both theologically and historically".
Mr Bush has filled the White House with Catholic speech-writers and consultants and is also thought to have asked a Catholic priest to bless the West Wing.
Before he became president, Karl Rove, his former political adviser, invited Catholic intellectuals to Texas to lecture the candidate on the church's teachings. Mr Bush appointed the Catholic judges Samuel Alito and John Roberts to the Supreme Court.
However, it is thought unlikely that Mr Bush would convert until after he has left office. Jeb Bush, the president's brother, has already converted to Catholicism.
Catholics have noted that during the contested election in 2000, Jeb Bush travelled to Mexico and prayed to the icon of Our Lady of Guadelupe. His victory was announced by the Supreme Court on December 12, the feast day of the Lady of Guadelupe.
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Posted: Sunday, June 15, 2008 | PermalinkComments 1 - 50 of 89 |
Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers2. Comment #193456 by Dhamma on June 15, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Is the ability to convert a virtue or not? Sure, this is within the same religion, but I have generally seen it as a strenght to be able to give up your belief for another. Maybe I should reconsider.Edit: Same shit, different name still applies to this conversion though.
Other Comments by Dhamma
3. Comment #193457 by ThoughtsonCommonToad on June 15, 2008 at 4:18 pm
"Anything is possible, especially for a born-again Christian such as Bush."How True.
..."on ethical matters he has always had a line that is practically identical to that of the Vatican." Mr Bush has spoken out against gay marriage, abortion and stem cell research. He proposed amending the US constitution to "fully protect marriage" as the "union of man and woman as husband and wife".Also the wonderful abstinence only program in Africa.
Catholics have noted that during the contested election in 2000, Jeb Bush travelled to Mexico and prayed to the icon of Our Lady of Guadelupe. His victory was announced by the Supreme Court on December 12, the feast day of the Lady of Guadelupe.Wow Bush really is doing God's will.
Other Comments by ThoughtsonCommonToad
4. Comment #193459 by Laurie Fraser on June 15, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Bush might like to try converting to human, first... Other Comments by Laurie Fraser
5. Comment #193460 by kraut on June 15, 2008 at 4:22 pm
What a pleasure for the RCC - another war criminal joins its ranks. How proud must the benedict be.Other Comments by kraut
6. Comment #193483 by mikecbraun on June 15, 2008 at 5:16 pm
In other news, George Bush got a tattoo of a Jolly Roger on his left pec, so Tony Blair is considering what he will get. Sources say he is most likely to choose a butterfly on the small of his back, which will be visible when he wears a tube top in summer. Other Comments by mikecbraun
7. Comment #193486 by Brian English on June 15, 2008 at 5:23 pm
He added that while the Holy See deplored the war in Iraq, "on ethical matters he has always had a line that is practically identical to that of the Vatican."
War isn't an ethical matter?
Other Comments by Brian English
8. Comment #193487 by mordacious1 on June 15, 2008 at 5:23 pm
Now, if I was a conspiracy nut, I would note that 5 of the Supreme Court Justices are catholic, Blair's catholic, Bush may become catholic...we've got Fanusi ready to wage the Crusades again...Other Comments by mordacious1
9. Comment #193491 by Apathy personified on June 15, 2008 at 5:31 pm
Strange, how absolutely 'right' people are about their religions, no doubt in their mind until.... 'actually boys, change of direction, it's the catholics, NOT the methodists who are right'I hope this turns out to be true, then both Blair and Bush will have shown more loyalty to their brand of toothpaste (colgate - it's what made them best friends in the early days - no, seriously, i shit you not), than the entire protestant movement, suck on that Martin Luther.
Other Comments by Apathy personified
10. Comment #193494 by Star Spangled Eagle on June 15, 2008 at 5:39 pm
In other news...
I am converting to Pastafarianism.
Would anyone else like to touch HIS noodly appendage?
Other Comments by Star Spangled Eagle
11. Comment #193497 by joshie on June 15, 2008 at 5:44 pm
If George W really converts to Catholicism because the Pope visited and impressed him then that just shows how ignorant he is. What about the centuries of theological difference between Protestants and Catholics? This smacks of following the cult of personality. Other Comments by joshie
12. Comment #193503 by HitbLade on June 15, 2008 at 5:57 pm
When I worked in Thailand, I know a guy who converted from christianity to buddhism. I suppose it makes more sense to worship a dead guy than a guy who never existed. I could convert to George Carlin's religion and worship the sun and pray to Joe Pesci. (Did I get the names right? :P)Other Comments by HitbLade
13. Comment #193507 by thewhitepearl on June 15, 2008 at 6:05 pm
HitbLade,
[most] buddhists dont actually worship a dead guy. I think most christians "convert" to buddhism as a stepping stone. It IS possible to be a christian and buddhist
Mordacious1,
"we've got Fanusi ready to wage the Crusades again..."
Ahh but remember the Crusades was a walk in the park compared to the damage inflicted by the mighty Mohammed and his modern day followers.
Other Comments by thewhitepearl
14. Comment #193515 by mordacious1 on June 15, 2008 at 6:35 pm
thewhitepearlOh, yeah that's right. Those were the good ol' days.
Other Comments by mordacious1
15. Comment #193518 by Gordy on June 15, 2008 at 6:45 pm
So, it looks like Blair did have some influence over Bush after all... *sigh*And, yes, some forms of Buddhism, such as Zen, don't involve any belief in the supernatural nor any worship of a deity (or even a "dead guy"). As I understand Zen, it's not really a religion, but a simple practice that encourages mental well-being.
Other Comments by Gordy
16. Comment #193522 by catskill on June 15, 2008 at 7:04 pm
It costs an absolutely insane amount of money for the Pres to travel abroad. And the only reason given for the travel is that he is on a farewell tour? Plus he gets to meet his superhero the Pope. Wonderful. Other Comments by catskill
17. Comment #193523 by acs on June 15, 2008 at 7:14 pm
How is this a suprise, the biggest con artists in history go after the biggest sucker.Obama in 08 ;)
Other Comments by acs
18. Comment #193524 by black wolf on June 15, 2008 at 7:18 pm
Most religious believers are the type of person who seeks an authority to tell him what is absolutely right and wrong, they crave certainty. George W. is sick and tired of being a leader, and I'm sure he does know that he is widely considered a failure at that. How relieving it must be for him to find the one person in the world many people believe to be the highest authority after the one who doesn't answer. If he does convert, he gives the evangelicals and other fundamentalist Protestants one more justification, one man they can call a traitor, to call for a new Cold War of reformation, or even make a stand against what they believe to be the new Great Whore, the Anti-Christ of Rome. The Pope rejects the idea of ecumenical service anyway. Another few decades or more of religion starving in the West, and the death throes may spark another rekindling of the battle for the remaining believers. If we're lucky, the believers will finally turn away from organized religion, and if we're even more lucky, they won't turn to woo instead. Other Comments by black wolf
19. Comment #193525 by mordacious1 on June 15, 2008 at 7:23 pm
GW is going to have to get his mom's permission, because she runs that family. She might look like the Quaker Oats guy, but she is a bulldog. I doubt if this is going to happen until mom drops dead.Other Comments by mordacious1
20. Comment #193528 by dragonfirematrix on June 15, 2008 at 7:24 pm
Religion sure is strange.
If only the religious would convert to the truth. The planet might be better place.
Other Comments by dragonfirematrix
21. Comment #193534 by Paskoo on June 15, 2008 at 7:38 pm
For the life of me, I cannot understand the "converts."I can certainly understand for someone to have a religion because it is "Daddy's shit" and therefore it becomes mine.
But, what is beyond me is that why would someoe leave his own shit and take someone else's shit?.
Farooq
Other Comments by Paskoo
22. Comment #193535 by Grantaire of JC on June 15, 2008 at 7:39 pm
I'd be impressed to receive such a honor too! To meet the head of the Catholic Church the institution that has helped millions of poor people, and at the same time stood firm in insisting that their God is the one and only, thus causing a religious strife that won't resolved for generations!! Maybe he felt in true awe of the power of government. Maybe his own religious doubts are driving him to Catholicism. But maybe, just maybe, he's looking for a little absolution for his sins and the Pope can make him be more at peace. If that's what works for him good luck.Other Comments by Grantaire of JC
23. Comment #193538 by Count von Count on June 15, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Ah,... I can see it now...Priest: "Do you believe in God the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth?"
George 'Corleone' Bush: "I do."
Priest: "Do you believe in Jesus Christ, His only Son, Our Lord?"
Bush: "I do."
Priest: "Do you believe in the Holy Ghost and the Holy Catholic Church?"
Bush: "I do."
Priest: "Do you renounce Satan?"
Bush: "I do renounce him."
Priest: "And all his works?"
George: "I do renounce them."
Priest: "And all his pomps?"
Bush: "I do renounce."
Priest: "George 'Corleone' Bush, will you be baptized?"
Michael: "I will."
Priest: "In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit go in peace, and may the Lord be with you."
(Scenes of Iraqi war, Katrina, and Guantanamo playing in the background of course.)
Other Comments by Count von Count
24. Comment #193539 by mikecbraun on June 15, 2008 at 7:44 pm
catskill makes a good point. The rest of us suckers have to start paying to check in bags and shell out two bucks for a thimble-full of coke, but the president can go jet-setting all over the face of the Earth for this kind of b.s.? Hey Bush--don't ever mention responsible energy use and energy conservation again, not when you're wasting hundreds of gallons of fuel to go talk to an elderly Nazi who sits around in his bathrobe and carries a jeweled sceptre about ways to further your relationship with an imaginary man in the sky. It just doesn't jive with 21st-century reality, man. Other Comments by mikecbraun
25. Comment #193540 by Grantaire of JC on June 15, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Nicely done Count!Other Comments by Grantaire of JC
26. Comment #193544 by MPhil on June 15, 2008 at 7:55 pm
go talk to an elderly Nazi
Ratzinger may be many things - but a Nazi is not one of them. Not everyone who was in the German Army back then was a Nazi... you practically didn't have a choice. Also, remember that the children back then were indoctrinated everywhere - in school, university, possibly at home and in the Hitler Youth.
Many of them turned out to be prime examples of defenders of democracy once the de-nazification was complete.
Don't blame it on them, not really fair.
Ratzinger is a very proficient thinker - there is no doubt about that. A very good thinker holding a position that's totally nuts, and immoral to boot. It's not like that has never happened before or since (just look at Swinburne, Craig, Plantinga etc).
Actually, Ratzinger used to be among the most progressive catholic officials... He even was partially responsible for the huge modernizations the catholic church underwent in Vatican II - but then the '68 revolution wrecked havoc at the university he was teaching at and used physical violence to interrupt learning - and he turned staunch conservative.
I don't like him any more than any atheist on here - but he is definitely not a Nazi.
Other Comments by MPhil
27. Comment #193548 by Brian English on June 15, 2008 at 7:59 pm
but he is definitely not a Nazi.
Ratzinger is Emperor Palpatine, not a storm trooper.
Other Comments by Brian English
28. Comment #193550 by MPhil on June 15, 2008 at 8:01 pm
He definitely looks like Palpatine... and on a slightly related note - I loved the vid where they dubbed a report on a huge catholic ceremony to be about some alien, Star Wars-like cult. It was hilarious.Say, Brian - I forgot - did I already send you my paper on "The Limits of Religion in a Liberal Society"?
Other Comments by MPhil
29. Comment #193551 by mordacious1 on June 15, 2008 at 8:02 pm
MPhilJoining the Hitler Youth was a choice was it not? Not every kid in Germany was in the Hitler Youth.
Now he's just been promoted. If he was "indoctrinated" in the HY, maybe he learned alot about indoctrination of the young there. Makes him a good pope, I suppose.
Other Comments by mordacious1
30. Comment #193553 by Brian English on June 15, 2008 at 8:04 pm
I've tried to download it, but couldn't from the first site and the second one gave a page error after I clicked on the download button. I'm the person who asked to be called stupid because I couldn't download it. :)Other Comments by Brian English
31. Comment #193557 by MPhil on June 15, 2008 at 8:10 pm
Joining the Hitler Youth was a choice was it not?
It was definitely not the free choice of the child - and the social pressure on those who did not enlist their children into the Hitler Youth (not to mention on the children - being a social outcast in Nazi-Germany definitely wasn't easy. The first to be sent to the concentration camps were the socialists, not the Jews. They came later) was so enormous that I don't blame the "ordinary" parents either.
If he was "indoctrinated" in the HY, maybe he learned alot about indoctrination of the young there. Makes him a good pope, I suppose.
If you want to be really historically correct and use the abbreviation, it would be "HJ"... but that doesn't matter.
Anyway, I think having witnessed such indoctrination made him a far better priest and preacher than a pope. The pope rarely has to indoctrinate people - the lower levels do that mostly, those in direct contact with the congregation. But I think his knowledge of rhetoric, his proficiency in argumentation, his being an intellectual and his knowing about indoctrination certainly helped him "ascend" through the ranks.
Other Comments by MPhil
32. Comment #193559 by MPhil on June 15, 2008 at 8:13 pm
Brian, Ah - I knew the IP was from Australia, but it might just have been somebody else :)
I just sent you a proper E-Mail with the Paper as plain PDF-attachment.
Other Comments by MPhil
33. Comment #193561 by MPhil on June 15, 2008 at 8:17 pm
Also, interestingly - I just tried both download-links and they seem to work fine from here.Weird.
Other Comments by MPhil
34. Comment #193563 by Brian English on June 15, 2008 at 8:20 pm
Perhaps they block future great German philosophers or block current average Australians?Other Comments by Brian English
35. Comment #193570 by LeeLeeOne on June 15, 2008 at 8:26 pm
#23 Count von CountAhhh, you may indeed understand
Judy Garland ...
There's no place like home.
There's no place like home.
There's no place like home.
There's no place....
ohmmmmmm
Other Comments by LeeLeeOne
36. Comment #193576 by mordacious1 on June 15, 2008 at 8:34 pm
MPhilPardon. Soll Ich Deutsch sprechen?
Other Comments by mordacious1
37. Comment #193580 by MPhil on June 15, 2008 at 8:37 pm
mordacious1 - hätte ich kein Problem damit. Bin mir aber nicht sicher, ob es nicht gegen die Regeln der Comments-section verstößt. Ich meine, wie soll Josh herausfinden, ob ich hier nicht gerade wie wild fluche und Leute beleidige :)
Ja, meine Güte - selbst als ein links-liberaler Deutscher muss man es nicht gut finden, wenn so furchtbar generalisiert wird. Deshalb hab ich das aufgegriffen.... alles Aufklärungsarbeit.
Und angesichts der Tatsache, dass die meisten Leute über Deutschland nur von Hitler wissen (12 Jahre aus einer tausend-jährigen Geschichte), und davon auch nicht gerade viel, hielt ich es für durchaus angebracht, hier etwas Aufklärungsarbeit zu leisten.
And no, I think we should stick to English :)
Other Comments by MPhil
38. Comment #193586 by mordacious1 on June 15, 2008 at 8:45 pm
Nein, Josh ist ein Mensch, es gibt kein Problem. Aber wenn man muess, muess man.edit: Ich hab' kein Umlaut.
müß
edit: hey aqua, it worked....would be difficult to write a whole passage doing that though
Other Comments by mordacious1
39. Comment #193592 by MPhil on June 15, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Just so Josh won't get annoyed, I'm still providing a translation of the above (people have inadvertently flagged me thrice in my time here - so far nothing happened, but I don't wanna temp the admin:):"I would have no problem with that [talking in German]. But I'm not sure if it doesn't violate the rules of this comments-section. I mean, how is Josh supposed to know that I'm not throwing insults around like a madman right now :)
Yes, my goodness - even as a liberal lefty German you don't have to like it when people generalize horribly. That's why I addressed this - it's all for the sake of enlightenment.
And seeing as for most people, the only thing they know about Germany is Hitler (12 years out of a thousand-year history), and often, even the knowledge of that is superficial [I wasn't saying this was the case here], so I thought it appropriate to do a little educational work here :)"
Other Comments by MPhil
40. Comment #193607 by mordacious1 on June 15, 2008 at 9:05 pm
Is ok, just teasing you about correcting my HY to HJ. Yes, I get your point about the generalizations, and I've read what the pope has said about his time in the Hitler Jugend. I think it is just fun for most to give him a hard time about it.Other Comments by mordacious1
41. Comment #193614 by MPhil on June 15, 2008 at 9:13 pm
Methinks you're right.Seeing as calling someone a Nazi is one of the most horrible accusations one can make (and since some people tend to generalize about Germans in that way), I freely admit I'm a bit touchy when it comes to this.
Anyway - there are correct accusations against the pope that are just as bad: That he actively tried to cover up thousands of molestations is just one point of critique.
Our case against religion and the churches is much stronger when we don't make fools of ourselves by making false accusations.
Other Comments by MPhil
42. Comment #193617 by Brian English on June 15, 2008 at 9:15 pm
I freely admit I'm a bit touchy when it comes to this.So you're a 'dont call a German a Nazi' Nazi* then?
*Think grammar Nazi and maybe you'll see the humour, if there be any in the statement.
Other Comments by Brian English
43. Comment #193636 by MPhil on June 15, 2008 at 9:34 pm
Yes, I see the humour - and I'm grinning. So I think it's this has been a successful attempt :) Other Comments by MPhil
44. Comment #193638 by mikecbraun on June 15, 2008 at 9:40 pm
Being in the Hitler Jugend, whether by choice or not, would make one a Nazi. Just like being in the Boy Scouts, whether by choice or not, would make one a Boy Scout. You can dress up a pig, but it's still a pig. Other Comments by mikecbraun
45. Comment #193644 by mikecbraun on June 15, 2008 at 9:47 pm
My joke loses force if I'm not allowed to call Ratzinger a Nazi, too. Be aware, MPhil, that I'm not one of those people who thinks lederhosen and Hitler when someone mentions Germany. My family is German, ich habe fur funf jahren Deutsch studiert (I don't know if that's even close--it's been awhile), my uncle is a German professor, I eat sauerkraut with glee and make fun of those who don't. I even got excited that my hotel room in Copenhagen had a hosenbugler, until I realized this was just a pants press. Other Comments by mikecbraun
46. Comment #193645 by MPhil on June 15, 2008 at 9:48 pm
mikecbraun, that depends if you define "Nazi" via being member of an organisation, or via having certain convictions.
Per the first definition - the one you advanced - Ratzinger would necessarily have stopped being a Nazi when he left the HJ or NSDAP or Wehrmacht. But there were many people who were Nazis afterwards - and whom we can rightly call Nazis even after 1945... so the second definition makes more sense.
And in that case, Ratzinger certainly is no longer a Nazi if ever he was one.
On that subject - just as a Child completely indoctrinated into the Catholic creed from it's earliest days is not to blame for identifying itself as a Catholic in its childhood (especially if it deconverts later), not every member of the HJ (not even most) can be blamed for identifying as National-Socialist. Especially since there is really no evidence to suggest that Ratzinger continued to believe in the superiority of the German people, or "believe" in Adolf Hitler or that the thrid Reich shall remain for a thousand years - calling Ratzinger a Nazi is unwarranted.
Other Comments by MPhil
47. Comment #193649 by MPhil on June 15, 2008 at 9:50 pm
I didn't imply (nor mean to) that you were one of those who think lederhosen and Hitler when they hear "Germany"...The part of my comment where I spoke about such things was meant to be more general. Only the parts in specific reference to calling Ratzinger a Nazi were addressed to you.
Strangely, I never liked Sauerkraut myself :)
Other Comments by MPhil
48. Comment #193652 by mikecbraun on June 15, 2008 at 9:52 pm
If I joined my local Nazi party, then tried explaining to my friends and coworkers that I am not a Nazi, how well do you think that would work out for me? Just curious. I'm guessing not too well. Other Comments by mikecbraun
49. Comment #193655 by mikecbraun on June 15, 2008 at 9:55 pm
I know you weren't implying that I'm a jackass, although you'd be right to. I am. I just am unsure where being forced into something ends and personal responsibility begins. Not necessarily in this case, but in others similar, such as enlisting in the armed forces then being ordered to carry out actions against your convictions. I thought my little post about lederhosen and such was funny, and I hoped someone else would too. Did it work?
*I should also clarify that I'm aware that Copenhagen is in Denmark, not Germany. They just had instructions in several European languages (of course). My American public school education was just fine, even the geography part.
Other Comments by mikecbraun
50. Comment #193663 by mikecbraun on June 15, 2008 at 10:05 pm
MPhil:
You don't like Sauerkraut? At least tell me you like Rotkohl. If you tell me you don't like Rouladen and Rotkohl, this could get ugly. I might have to buy you a plane ticket to Minnesota so you can try the good stuff--mine. On a side note, should I capitalize all nouns when typing in German? I forgot that part. I think it's time to go to bed, because as I read my posts, I seem to alternate between abusive, conciliatory, stand-offish, humorous, and inquisitive. One would think I need some lithium. Bed time.
Other Comments by mikecbraun
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1. Comment #193453 by Neuro on June 15, 2008 at 4:14 pm
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