Wednesday, June 25, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version

Band T-shirt draws charge

by Gold Coast Stage

Thanks to emajor for the link.

http://goldcoaststage.arkcms.com/article/2008/06/25/12892_gold-coast-top-story.html

Band T-shirt draws charge
By Ben Dillaway

IT is blasphemous, will get you arrested and has sparked debate about Australia's lack of a Bill of Rights.

Meet Cradle of Filth, an extreme metal band from England. Their offensive shirt that claims 'Jesus is a (expletive deleted)' and depicts a nun masturbating.

A 16-year-old was arrested on Monday for wearing the shirt and was charged with offensive behaviour under the Summary Offences Act 2005 for public nuisance.

Senior Sergeant Arron Ottaway said the teen was walking along Hollywell Road, in Biggera Waters, when a officer saw him.

"I'm not religious but that's just offensive," said Sen Sgt Ottaway,

Police conducted inquiries at Australia Fair, where the teen said he bought the shirt, to find any shops selling it.

The Reverend Matt Hunt of the Helensvale Baptist Church said it was sad people spoke about the Lord in such a way.

"It's fairly common language these days to express sadness, anger or hurt," he said. "It's a degrading word to use and Jesus is anything but that. It's like calling white black."

Mr Hunt said using the Lord's name in vain was a serious sin.

"When someone comes to the point of saying Jesus is the devil or Jesus is 'expletive', the Bible does say be very careful because you're on thin ice."

Gold Coast lawyer Bill Potts said the arrest highlighted Australia's need for a Bill of Rights.

"One of the great problems with our country is that we talk about rights such as privacy and freedom of speech and the like but they are not enshrined or protected in any way as they are in America," he said.

"While there are always limits on freedom of speech, you can't incite violence or anything like that, it seems to be now more than ever that our rights to freedom of speech and freedom of expression should be protected.

"A Bill of Rights which enshrines that protection is long overdue in this country."

Mr Potts said charging the teen was 'ludicrous' and brought the law into disrepute.

"A shirt might offend some and might be amusing to others," he said.

"If a person was wearing the shirt in a church or a religious rally where it was specifically intended to offend or cause disruption, then perhaps the prosecution might stand a chance.

"However, to criminalise juvenile or boorish messages is to bring the law into disrepute. The police are acting like the thought police and censors."

Molendinar residents Hayley and Arron, who are big Cradle of Filth fans, bought the shirts from Carrara Markets six months ago but said they had never, and would never, wear them in public.

"I'm not a fan of the T-shirt. I'm only wearing it because it's a band T-shirt and it's rare," said Arron. "I don't actually believe the stuff. I'm not satanic or anything like that. I hate that stuff. I just wear it around the house."

Not surprisingly, this is not the first time the shirt has had a run-in with the law.

In 2005, 19-year-old Adam Shepherd was fined £40 and sentenced to 80 hours community for wearing the shirt in England.

In an interview with Kerrang! magazine, Cradle of Filth frontman Dani Filth bizarrely suggested God was working through the band.

"Defaming organised religion openly in public is now a crime? What is wrong with England? Still, the litter problem on our city streets should improve dramatically if they keep handing out 80-odd hour community punishment orders willy-nilly," he said.

"The country will be spotless in no time, a sure sign that God works in mysterious ways, even through us!"

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1. Comment #199236 by evotruth on June 25, 2008 at 11:18 am

What a disgrace! I love heavy metal and i'm always wearing band T-shirts. My slayer shirt features upside down crosses! Am i going to be arrested for wearing that!?

Other Comments by evotruth

2. Comment #199240 by mordacious1 on June 25, 2008 at 11:25 am

So what was deleted? Fucktard?

Other Comments by mordacious1

3. Comment #199242 by decius on June 25, 2008 at 11:27 am

Was it JESUS IS A WANKER?

What's wrong with it, most likely he didn't even exist, and if he did, he must have masturbated at least a few times. Or was he just getting his butts filled by the apostles? I don't buy Dan Brown's version, the fictional character of the gospel doesn't strike me as straight.
Besides, he spawned a clergy of child molesters. Yeah, that must be it, most likely a paedophile.

Other Comments by decius

4. Comment #199244 by Mark Barratt on June 25, 2008 at 11:31 am

This is a real blast from the past. The "Jesus is a (expletive deleted. The expletive that has been deleted is cunt)" T-Shirts caused an outcry amongst the easily offended possessors of ultimate and eternal truth here in the UK about ten years ago or more.

The best response I heard at that time went something like this: We are all born at least once, and the traditional method that is used involves us being born through a cunt, and what a wonderful and natural phenomenon that is. RD does a good job of pointing out how lucky we are to have been born at all in Unweaving the Rainbow.

Some members of the species are apparently not content with being born just the once. These people, who call themselves Christians, follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, and the impact of his teachings on their lives is so profound that they actually claim to have been born again, but this time they have been born THROUGH JESUS. As the traditional understanding is that the thing you are born through is normally a cunt, the phrase "Jesus is a cunt" takes on a powerful metaphorical significance, and so the T-Shirt can be seen as a direct statement of the power of rebirth through Christ. So you see, rather than protesting the T-Shirt the Christians should all buy these T-Shirts and wear them proudly as statements of their faith!

If you know a Christian, why don't you buy them one?

Other Comments by Mark Barratt

5. Comment #199245 by Factofevolution on June 25, 2008 at 11:31 am

"Lie"? "Crutch"? "Myth"? "Horrible Reason to do Anything"?
I'd like to know what the shirt says 'cause I have a few suggestions...

Other Comments by Factofevolution

6. Comment #199246 by happinessiseasy on June 25, 2008 at 11:32 am

There are laws even in the U.S. about language. You can't scream FUCK YOU to a 5-year-old in the checkout lane of the grocery store.

I'd be all over this if it just said "Jesus Is Not Real" but the profanity kinda takes it to a different "standards and practices" law field.

Other Comments by happinessiseasy

7. Comment #199247 by mordacious1 on June 25, 2008 at 11:32 am

"If a person was wearing the t-shirt in a church or a religious rally where it was specifically intended to offend or cause disruption, then perhaps the prosecution might stand a chance."

Boy, these countries just don't understand the concept of freedom of speech. It is especially in these contexts, where speech is most protected. Although in the church, being private property, the offender could be asked to leave.

Other Comments by mordacious1

8. Comment #199248 by petermun on June 25, 2008 at 11:34 am

Just checked the Cradle of Filth site - it is that good old anglo-saxon word much used by DH Lawrence in Lady C.

Other Comments by petermun

9. Comment #199250 by decius on June 25, 2008 at 11:38 am

Petermun,

the most articulate and comprehensive usage of the word in object is to be found in Irvine Welsh's body of work, which I warmly recommend to anyone who likes underground (now probably mainstream) literature.

Edit- Especially: A Smart Cunt(novella contained in Acid House), Trainspotting, Filth.

Other Comments by decius

10. Comment #199254 by Jack Rawlinson on June 25, 2008 at 11:47 am

As Mark Barratt says, these T-shirts have been around for absolutely years. Weird they're causing a fuss again after all this time.

Other Comments by Jack Rawlinson

11. Comment #199255 by mordacious1 on June 25, 2008 at 11:52 am

"You can't incite violence". So, if I get pissed at a guy wearing a "Jesus loves you" t-shirt, because I find it offensive, which I do, he can be arrested? Or are some people's rights of not being offended more important than others?

Other Comments by mordacious1

12. Comment #199256 by Fanusi Khiyal on June 25, 2008 at 11:55 am

Oh dear lord - as it were. It's a band called Cradle of Filth for crying out loud! What do you expect?

Although I would give them immense props if they had the guts to say the same thing about Muhammad.

Other Comments by Fanusi Khiyal

13. Comment #199259 by advocatus_diaboli on June 25, 2008 at 11:56 am

When I was in highschool our school had a no depictions of violence on clothing policy. I was in trouble numerous times for pointing out that a silly sketched cartoon skull they would send me home for wearing was much less violent than the depicitons of a man nailed to a stick they let the Christian students wear day after day.

Other Comments by advocatus_diaboli

14. Comment #199263 by bladesman on June 25, 2008 at 12:03 pm

Ah, the c-word. Most delicious and forbidden of words. Personally, my favourite use of it is when Jodie Foster says 'He said - "I can smell your cunt"' in Silence Of The Lambs. Awesome. :o)

Other Comments by bladesman

15. Comment #199266 by Enlightenme.. on June 25, 2008 at 12:06 pm

Yay!! I sell these in my shop :)
Along with an absolutely ginormous selection of parent-cringe material - I fkin' love my job!

Cradle of Filth do metal 'forged from the heat of wanking nuns'

Other Comments by Enlightenme..

16. Comment #199270 by empyredon on June 25, 2008 at 12:10 pm

I always wondered if this t-shirt would surface in the news again, or any other shirt for that matter.
I remember the design coming out about 10-15 years ago, along with many others." dead girls don't say no" and "vestal masturbation" to name just two.
I am pleased to call the ex-drummer of the band a mate of mine and i can assure anyone the band are neither sick nor satanic.

This kind of music has anti-religous symbolism and lyrics throughout the product.
If i was to be honest,it was this kind of music which made me open my eyes at a young age and question the Christianity i had force fed me as a child.

Nicholas Barker the drummer also confessed to turning the shirt inside out on his washing line so as not to upset his mother!! Now that is Metal for you.

Other Comments by empyredon

17. Comment #199273 by Big City on June 25, 2008 at 12:17 pm

Can I wear one that says "Muhammad Was A Pedophile"?

Other Comments by Big City

18. Comment #199275 by lazlow on June 25, 2008 at 12:23 pm

"When someone comes to the point of saying Jesus is the devil or Jesus is 'expletive', the Bible does say be very careful because you're on thin ice."

So, basically, you have nothing to worry about, unless you believe in said book.

Other Comments by lazlow

19. Comment #199276 by Vinelectric on June 25, 2008 at 12:24 pm

Why do people get a thrill from picking on easy targets?

If they're that daring and want to be really provocative why not try a Muhammad was a Paedophile T-Shirt.

Other Comments by Vinelectric

20. Comment #199281 by 8teist on June 25, 2008 at 12:31 pm

Haha and he lives at home with his mummy....

what a rebel

Other Comments by 8teist

21. Comment #199285 by thirdwheel on June 25, 2008 at 12:35 pm

Cradle of Filth makes some ... "interesting" references to Jesus

one of my favorites from the lyrics to a song:

"Our fecund nature decrees that Jesus wept cum for the devil on her knees."

very nice.

Other Comments by thirdwheel

22. Comment #199286 by Enlightenme.. on June 25, 2008 at 12:36 pm

" why not try a Muhammad was a Paedophile T-Shirt"

Well, you would have to be tired of life to go that far, frankly.

Nobody ever got killed because they wore a C.O.F. T-shirt, I'm thinking Bruce Willis in Die Hard 3, how long would you give somebody wearing what you suggest before they get arrested for their own protection?

^More great lyrics from my favourite Slayer song: Cult

Oppression is the Holy Law
In God I distrust
In time His monuments will fall
Like ashes to dust
Is war and creed the master plan?
The Bible's where it all began
Its propaganda sells despair
And spreads the virus everywhere

[Refrain:]
Religion is hate
Religion is fear
Religion is war
Religion is rape
Religion's obscene
Religion's a whore

The pestilence of Jesus Christ
There never was a sacrifice
No man upon the crucifix
Beware the cult of purity
Infectious imbecility
I've made my choice
666!

[Solo - Hanneman]

Corruption breeds the pedophile
Don't pray for the priest
Confession finds the lonely child
God preys on the weak
You think your soul can still be saved
I think you're fucking miles away
Scream out loud, here's where you begin
Forgive me Father for I have sinned!

[Refrain:]
Religion is hate
Religion is fear
Religion is war
Religion is rape
Religion's obscene
Religion's a whore

The target's fucking Jesus Christ
I would've lead the sacrifice
And nailed him to the crucifix
Beware the cult of purity
Infectious imbecility
I've made my choice
666!

Jesus is pain
Jesus is gore
Jesus is the blood
That's spilled in war
He's everything
He's all things dead
He's pulling on the trigger
Pointed at your head!

Through the fear you're sold into the fraud
Revelation,
Revolution,
I see through your Christ illusion!

[Solo - King]

The war on terror just drags along
My war with God is growing strong
His propaganda sells despair
And spreads this violence everywhere

[Refrain:]
Religion is hate
Religion is fear
Religion is war
Religion is rape
Religion's obscene
Religion's a whore

There is no fucking Jesus Christ
There never was a sacrifice
No man upon the crucifix
Beware the cult of purity
Infectious imbecility
I've made my choice
666!

(Gotta sing'em really fast - Slayer are thrash metal.)

And what can I hear *right now* from my back garden? - Bon f'kin Jovi, playing at a soccer stadium 5 minutes away from me.
Ughh

Other Comments by Enlightenme..

23. Comment #199288 by lol mahmood on June 25, 2008 at 12:39 pm

Mark Barrat's defence (Comment #199244) is fantatstic! Must remember that.

Other Comments by lol mahmood

24. Comment #199297 by phatbat on June 25, 2008 at 1:07 pm

22. Comment #199286 by Enlightenme

And what can I hear *right now* from my back garden? - Bon f'kin Jovi, playing at a soccer stadium 5 minutes away from me.

No way - i can hear it too, i live in clifton just past the top of clifton vale - what about you enlightenme?

Other Comments by phatbat

25. Comment #199302 by robotaholic on June 25, 2008 at 1:15 pm

I honestly don't agree with anyone wearing a shirt like this - sure mabye they should have a right to do it but if you really don't think that Jesus was anything special then why have such a negative opinion of it/him/w/e - This doesn't seem constructive - nor very logical

Other Comments by robotaholic

26. Comment #199307 by Border Collie on June 25, 2008 at 1:42 pm

Just more tabloid crap ...

Other Comments by Border Collie

27. Comment #199308 by Enlightenme.. on June 25, 2008 at 1:49 pm

"what about you enlightenme?"

Small world!
What ariel do I live? - Bedminster, but born Weston-Super-Mare, I regularly go to
the science cafe at the Tobacco factory (next one mon 30th to see Mark Hempsell give a talk on;
What happened to the Space Age?)

Other Comments by Enlightenme..

28. Comment #199310 by phasmagigas on June 25, 2008 at 1:51 pm

my reply: 'fuck you'

(you may think the ice is thin but as far as im concerned it will NEVER actually crack)

Other Comments by phasmagigas

29. Comment #199315 by phatbat on June 25, 2008 at 2:03 pm

27. Comment #199308 by Enlightenme

Ah - small world indeed - i had thought about going to that science cafe thing - i signed up for the email updates but haven't been to any yet. What is it like? Do the audience get really stuck in?

Other Comments by phatbat

30. Comment #199316 by squinky on June 25, 2008 at 2:04 pm

I ask you, what is more offensive:
Jesus is a c*nt (which really harms no one since Jesus is not alive)
OR
Priests engage in child rape and bishops take pains to cover it up.

I think hate speech should apply only to intrinsic human attributes (such as anti-race or anti-gay epithets) not extrinsic things such as beliefs (I hate fucking Nazis, Jesus is a c*nt, IDers blow horses, etc).

Other Comments by squinky

31. Comment #199325 by Enlightenme.. on June 25, 2008 at 2:21 pm

^^
The Science cafe's in Bristol are good, yes.
Very informal, FREE entry :)
The format is - invited expert, who graciously gives of their time, talks for approx 45 mins, 15 mins refreshment break, then as much as an hour for Q&A's.
There was an article on RDnet about 4 weeks back on Science cafe's.
We now have 2 in Bristol, the second one just opened at @Bristol.
Tobacco factory last monday of month
@Bristol 2nd Tuesday of month

http://www.sciencecafe.co.uk/

Other Comments by Enlightenme..

32. Comment #199332 by phatbat on June 25, 2008 at 2:31 pm

Yeah the RD.net article is the reason i found out about it - i may well go along to one of those.

Thanks for the info matee.

Other Comments by phatbat

33. Comment #199350 by Jack Rawlinson on June 25, 2008 at 2:54 pm

robotaholic - I think the point of shirts like this isn't really about the wearer's opinion of Jesus. It's about seeking to offend those who do feel strongly about him. I have no problem with that in principle although I always thought this particular example was a bit too obviously forced. :-)

Other Comments by Jack Rawlinson

34. Comment #199352 by Lucas on June 25, 2008 at 2:55 pm

This reminds me of that time in middle school when my buddy almost got sent home for wearing the Metallica t-shirt that says "METAL UP YOUR ASS!" with the knife coming out of the toilet. We negotiated, and put a piece of masking tape over the word "ass." Then we took a sharpie and wrote "ASS" on the piece of tape.

My pops told me long ago to avoid the C word unless it's totally necessary, though I understand it has gained a new meaning in England. I really find it hard to say, in fact. I find it weird that this isn't an obscenity issue, but a religious one. Can I just have a shirt that says "cunt" all by itself?

Other Comments by Lucas

35. Comment #199358 by mikecbraun on June 25, 2008 at 3:09 pm

So would the shirt I have my sights set on buying, which depicts the last supper and has the caption, "Sausage Fest," be in the same vein? Because I've been debating getting the shirt (for monetary reasons, not due to worry about offending some douchebags) but if I knew it was going to really cause undies to be knotted up in bunches, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

Other Comments by mikecbraun

36. Comment #199362 by Benjamin P. on June 25, 2008 at 3:29 pm

Not the first time, this shirt got problems I think... I have one saying "Religion sickens me".. if they'd arrested me, too?

I've got similar news, too... some bands, such as moonspell or marilyn manson and even polnish bands like behemoth should not be allowed to play concerts in poland anymore. They are afraid of satanism.. I doubt that those bands even take this shit seriously, but anyway it's a shame, that we have some kind of censorship of like this within the EU...

Other Comments by Benjamin P.

37. Comment #199366 by nalfeshnee on June 25, 2008 at 3:31 pm

Oh really? Just to prove this isn't a load of bollocks, why doesn't said preacher find the exact lines in the Bible that say this.

And no, I don't know the New Testament Greek for "cunt" but I do seem to fail to recall it from the Sermon on the Mount (now there's a great wordplay opportunity for you all) and other official announcements of 'im from Nazareth.

I do believe it was rather the Abrahamic God who got all upset at the idea that people might shout his name out when being mown down by Midianites or whatever. Thus forbidding it in one of the (versions of) the ten (or maybe 20, depending how you view it) commandments.

But I fail to see the relevance to Jesus.

I think the only thing they regularly called him was either the Messiah ("good" guys) or King of the Jews ("bad" guys).

Mind you, would be interesting to know what the temple moneychangers called him...

Other Comments by nalfeshnee

38. Comment #199369 by Darwin's badger on June 25, 2008 at 3:36 pm

34. Comment #199352 by Lucas on June 25, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Can I just have a shirt that says "cunt" all by itself?

You could get a James Blunt T-shirt, which is not only excellent rhyming slang, but also describes the man and anyone willing to wear the shirt. :)

Other Comments by Darwin's badger

39. Comment #199374 by Manson on June 25, 2008 at 3:53 pm

The only time I use c*nt is when referring to Ann Coulter. It is really the only word that accurately describes the *itch.

Ok... maybe one of two such words.

Other Comments by Manson

40. Comment #199377 by bobrobertsnz on June 25, 2008 at 3:59 pm

I like some of the LANDOVER BAPTIST shirts... www.landoverbaptist.org

my personal favourite which I wear is "LANDOVER BAPTIST BOOK burning club" with a cartoon of a kid with matches....

its interesting because some people get the joke, and other people take it seriously...

Other Comments by bobrobertsnz

41. Comment #199384 by Dispiracist on June 25, 2008 at 4:28 pm

This is just an entertainment story. It isn't really a religious issue. It indicates more about routine policing practises in Queensland than about religion.

Young men wearing overtly offensive T-shirts are signalling critical information to other youths:

1. To girls that they are attractively reckless, but smart enough to get away with it.
2. To rival males that they are committed to being aggressive.
3. That they are unlikely to be undercover cops, who would otherwise prefer to avoid attracting attention.

An offensive T-shirt enables the wearer to appear as more trustworthy and approachable as an illegal drug distributor to prospective consumers. The logic is that either the wearer is not a cop, has not yet been noticed by cops, or is operating under the protection of corrupt cops, given that regular cops would otherwise be tempted to arrest the guy. Either way this is useful advertising to draw in prospective customers.

Chances are that this was what the police are responding to. Like most of us, the police aren't easily offended, and typically don't work harder than they need to. Either the police are deterring probable drug dealers, or are deterring potential competitors to their own preferred dealers. Even if the person arrested is not a dealer, deterring wearers of offensive T-shirts makes it easier for the real dealers to be spotted.

Other Comments by Dispiracist

42. Comment #199387 by Enlightenme.. on June 25, 2008 at 4:48 pm

Lucas:
"This reminds me of that time in middle school when my buddy almost got sent home for wearing the Metallica t-shirt that says "METAL UP YOUR ASS!" with the knife coming out of the toilet"

Yay, again, That is just about the favourite of all my old metal T's that I still have (very worn by now!) I have the edition that has a guy dying in the electric chair on the other side as well for added offensiveness.

Other fave's;
Orig Joy Division, Unknown Pleasures, with no words.
Faith No More, epic flames.
Pearl Jam, alive, ten.

I don't care much for the c-word, or the closely related t-word myself.

Other Comments by Enlightenme..

43. Comment #199389 by acs on June 25, 2008 at 4:57 pm

Dispiracist

I am also a Queensland resident (Brisbane) and you and I know that is bullshit. The law in Queensland does not allow using one provision of the Summary Offences Act to justify removal of a person because they are concerned about drug distribution. Under the Police Powers and Responsibility Act a police officer could just search the person on suspicion of being a drug distributor.

This is another example of the dire straits that Australia has found itself in. We have a class of police, politicians and preachers that are vehemently trying to enforce a theistic outlook on our country in defference to section 116 of the Constitution that provides Australia is to be a secular country.

www.casehq.blogspot.com

Other Comments by acs

44. Comment #199408 by BicycleRepairMan on June 25, 2008 at 5:57 pm

the actual text was(strong warning to the weak-minded):

JESUS IS A CUNT
(http://stores.musictoday.com/store/bands/638/product_medium/BGCTCF15.jpg)

Setting aside the historical inaccuracy, (Jesus, if he existed, WAS a cunt, if anything, he is DEAD) The whole slogan may be offensive to some, but that doesn't keep it from being at least partially true, after all, Jesus' message is basically that you have to accept him and his blood sacrifice to be the only redeeming factor in yours and everybody else's life. sounds pretty much like a CUNT to me.

Other Comments by BicycleRepairMan

45. Comment #199410 by 8teist on June 25, 2008 at 6:05 pm

Golly..BRM if all the nuns were that horny I`d consider becoming a priest meself.

Other Comments by 8teist

46. Comment #199414 by fontor on June 25, 2008 at 6:09 pm

Let's not forget the wonderful 'Mary' t-shirt:

http://tinyurl.com/68srnw

Other Comments by fontor

47. Comment #199441 by Dutchie on June 25, 2008 at 7:06 pm

I think it should be banned - not because of its religious content, but because of a certain four letter word on it; that's the problem here.

If said word was to be replaced with something less obscene (but still as offensive to theists) I wouldn't mind. In fact, I'd love it :D.

But you can't walk around town with the word "CUNT" plastered across your chest!

Other Comments by Dutchie

48. Comment #199458 by Enlightenme.. on June 25, 2008 at 7:39 pm

"you can't walk around town with the word "CUNT" plastered across your chest!"

The really offensive slogans on most of the C.O.F. T's were on the back - easy to cover up with your leather jacket or hoody till you get to whatever den of iniquity you're wearing it out to that night, the front pictures were still risque, but would blend in a bit more with general dress-code at a glance.

Other Comments by Enlightenme..

49. Comment #199482 by black wolf on June 25, 2008 at 8:20 pm

I hung out with C.O.F. backstage when they did their first Germany tour, at the Berlin gig. You know what they do? They relax, drink something and smoke a cigarette (Dani smoked one of mine, yayproud ;) ).
Now what do you think the televangelists do after their shows? I bet most of us would not find it very pleasant to watch...

Other Comments by black wolf

50. Comment #199491 by asupcb on June 25, 2008 at 8:38 pm

Freedom of Speech is definitely the best thing about the US if not one of the few things we have left that is better than the rest of the world. I wouldn't personally wear a shirt like this but surely it shouldn't be illegal to wear a shirt like this. Also if people or stores don't like the person's shirt because it may prove offensive to their customers than they should kick them out of their store or have we finally finished off what's left of individual property rights as well. You do not have the right to not be offended even if you are five years old.

Other Comments by asupcb