Friday, June 27, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version

Non-voters: It's all in God's hands

by MSNBC

Thanks to Lefty for the link.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25372063/

Non-voters: It's all in God's hands
Those who believe God is involved less likely to participate in elections

People who believe that God is involved in worldly affairs are less likely to participate in national elections than others, according to a new survey.

The study, which included nearly 1,700 U.S. men and women with an average age of 53, suggests that a person's view of God is a variable that determines whether he or she will donate money to a campaign, read political news, or even vote.

"It can be reasoned that if one believes God determines worldly affairs, then there is little reason for individuals to participate in civic events," study leader Robyn Driskell and her colleagues write in the June issue of the journal Social Science Quarterly. "God is taking care of things."

Religion vs. religion

Overall, about 58 percent of citizens age 18 and over voted in the 2004 presidential elections, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.

Evangelical and black Protestants on average were least likely to "get out the national vote" in the 2004 elections, the study finds. The researchers say both denominations espouse the view that God is active in world affairs, so the lower political engagement makes sense.

The researchers found that a person who views God as more inactive and less involved in the world is more likely to engage in political activities. Jewish respondents and mainline Protestants, who commonly take this inactive-God view, scored higher on political participation than evangelical and black Protestants. Catholics also scored higher than Protestants.

Specifically, individuals who prayed about "general world concerns" or who believed that "actively seeking social and economic justice is important in being a good person" showed at least 5 percent higher scores on political involvement.

So while the belief in God in general is not a predictor of voter participation, the researchers say, whether this God is involved in worldly affairs does impact voting patterns.

The results are part of the nationally representative Baylor Religion Survey, 2005.

Politics and religion

Though the separation of church and state has remained a pillar of national jurisprudence since the concept was added to the U.S. Constitution in 1791, research consistently reveals religion's significant role in political and social behavior.

For instance, past research has shown that people who are the most avid churchgoers or otherwise active in their churches also are more likely than others to register to vote, vote, campaign and attend political speeches. Other studies revealed no link between church attendance and more demanding forms of political involvement, such as running for office or holding leadership positions in local politics.

Also, "churches were an instigating force for both political and social movements such as the civil rights movement and, more recently, Christian conservatism," Driskell writes.

Another study, published this week in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS), found individuals who voted inside school buildings were more likely to support an educational initiative than those who cast ballots at other civic locations. The PNAS researchers suggest the same dynamics could extend to other locations, such as churches, and other ballot measures, such as support for gay marriage or stem cell research.

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1. Comment #200274 by suffolkthinker on June 27, 2008 at 8:23 am

And how is this a bad thing? :-)

Other Comments by suffolkthinker

2. Comment #200275 by Philip1978 on June 27, 2008 at 8:23 am

God is taking care of things.

Phew, thank goodness for that! For a minute there I thought Yahweh had that lackadaisical type of character that contributed bugger all to the working of the entire universe, but I guess I was mistaken!

Other Comments by Philip1978

3. Comment #200276 by B.L.Z. Bub on June 27, 2008 at 8:24 am

Could be just a correlation? I think there is evidence to suggest that those who have been poorly educated or not done well in education (i.e. bit dim) tend to take less interest in politics and are less likely to get involved in civic affairs. Such people might also be the ones most readily suckered into the type of church talked about above.

Other Comments by B.L.Z. Bub

4. Comment #200281 by eh-theist on June 27, 2008 at 8:45 am

I think this is great news! Trey Parker and Matt Stone did tackle this issue when P. Diddy and friends came out with "Vote or Die" by basically saying "If you aren't educated on the issues, don't vote." (Trey also wrote a song about it :) )

If you believe the rapture is coming in 50 years, you shouldn't be deciding who should be making policies for your country. Policies of today will affect your country long after the rapture doesn't happen.

Other Comments by eh-theist

5. Comment #200283 by Al420 on June 27, 2008 at 8:50 am

I think it could very well be a correlation, in that people who don't take an interest in world affairs are more likely to believe in a god who takes care of things for them. It's like the violent video game debate; Do violent video games make children violent, or are violent children drawn to violent things?

I like how they put the civil rights movement and christian conservativism in a sentence as if they were along the same lines. Nice try.

Other Comments by Al420

6. Comment #200284 by Tack on June 27, 2008 at 8:51 am

If non-believers are more likely to be liberals, and believers are less likely to vote, then why do republicans keep getting elected?

Other Comments by Tack

7. Comment #200287 by notsobad on June 27, 2008 at 8:55 am

There are still enough idiots to vote so ...

Other Comments by notsobad

8. Comment #200289 by Dhamma on June 27, 2008 at 9:02 am

I agree, people who don't know jack about politics really shouldn't vote either. In Sweden virtually everyone votes, which could be really good, if they had better knowledge than my friend who voted on the centre party with the motivation "I voted the centre party because I didn't know what the others stood for, and they were in the middle, so they can't be that bad", sadly I know many who votes without better knowledge. For some reason people here are so proud we all vote. Please, leave it up to those who at least know we're a monarchy.

I definitely believe we have a more knowledgeable voter-core than most, but who cares when everyone's competing for the last price?

If the americans don't vote because they believe God will make the best choice anyway, I do find it very scary so many can believe such bs.

Tack: The non-believers are still such a minority it hardly matters most of them are liberals.

Other Comments by Dhamma

9. Comment #200294 by foolish sea otter on June 27, 2008 at 9:07 am

RE: Comment #200281 by eh-theist.
"Vote or Die" by basically saying "If you aren't educated on the issues, don't vote."

It was more like if the choices are between a giant douche and a turd sandwich what's the point of voting?

EDIT: But then how does this fit in?

http://www.richarddawkins.net/article,2746,Pastors-Challenge-Law-Endorse-Candidates-From-Pulpit,ABC-News

/edit

Other Comments by foolish sea otter

10. Comment #200298 by justdust on June 27, 2008 at 9:20 am

Am I correct in thinking that Jehovas Witnesses are encouraged/instructed not to vote?

Other Comments by justdust

11. Comment #200302 by Oystein Elgaroy on June 27, 2008 at 9:25 am

I think reality might be more complicated. When issues like abortion and gay marriage are on the agenda, fundamentalists who think their god is actively involved in the affairs of this planet will sometimes argue that it is a Christian duty to vote for parties with the right bronze-age attitude. If you don't vote, God will be angry and punish the whole nation. I know about a few groups of fundamentalists in my country who think like this.

Other Comments by Oystein Elgaroy

12. Comment #200303 by 82abhilash on June 27, 2008 at 9:25 am

9. Comment #200294 by foolish sea otter on June 27, 2008 at 9:07 am

RE: Comment #200281 by eh-theist.
"Vote or Die" by basically saying "If you aren't educated on the issues, don't vote."

It was more like if the choices are between a giant douche and a turd sandwich what's the point of voting?

EDIT: But then how does this fit in?

http://www.richarddawkins.net/article,2746,Pastors-Challenge-Law-Endorse-Candidates-From-Pulpit,ABC-News

/edit

Looks to me like the religious vote when the representatives of their benevolent dictator (the pastors who talk for god), tells them to and they vote to those they are told to vote for (whom they 'endorse'). In other words the pastors think for them. That kind of people are a prized vote bank for politicians. People who think for themselves, makes politicians to earn their vote by actually doing good work.

Other Comments by 82abhilash

13. Comment #200306 by decius on June 27, 2008 at 9:31 am

On a side note, a politician is the last person to which I would donate money (aside from anyone even remotely affiliated with the clergy, of course).

Other Comments by decius

14. Comment #200310 by Diacanu on June 27, 2008 at 9:38 am

"It can be reasoned that if one believes God determines worldly affairs, then there is little reason for individuals to participate in civic events,"

Of course, that likely had to be translated from the patterns of moaning, drooling, slurring, and gasping from the subjects momentarily forgetting how to breathe.

Other Comments by Diacanu

15. Comment #200311 by LUCASWB on June 27, 2008 at 9:38 am

I am voting for Obama. some of my christian conservative friends tell me there is a good chance he is the anti-christ. I tell them that means they should vote for him too so we can get this thing moving along, and bring on the rapture.

Other Comments by LUCASWB

16. Comment #200312 by Vecingetorix on June 27, 2008 at 9:42 am

Just to point out that there are more candidates involved in this election than those the media deigns to cover, including one that has a decidedly more secular bent.

You don't have to choose one of the two versions of the same party.
PSA

Other Comments by Vecingetorix

17. Comment #200317 by Diacanu on June 27, 2008 at 9:49 am

Vecingetorix-

*Head pat* Yeah, that's nice, why don't I just write in Daffy Duck while I'm at it too, eh?

Now go to sleep.

Other Comments by Diacanu

18. Comment #200324 by Vecingetorix on June 27, 2008 at 10:10 am

Good job.

Way to be blandly patronising.

Hopelessness has never been employed before on this issue.

Thanks for something completely different.

Do I need to be predictable and point out where this isn't helpful?

on a somewhat related note, anyone see this yet?
http://www.yahoo.com/s/907672

Other Comments by Vecingetorix

19. Comment #200328 by Diacanu on June 27, 2008 at 10:17 am

Vacingetorix-

Ah, so you agree that the system is decaying, and we're all going to die screaming and writhing?

Good, glad we're on the same page. :)

Other Comments by Diacanu

20. Comment #200331 by Sciros on June 27, 2008 at 10:25 am

When I was graduating HS and our chess club was having a vote for next year's officers (the graduating seniors were able to vote as well...), Batman got more votes as a write-in than any of the people who actually ran.

I think a "Batman for president" campaign needs to be promoted.

Presidential elections are a funny business because voters' priorities are so different. Some people care about health care reform, while others care about what the future administration's response would be to another shit-hits-the-fan terrorist attack. There's no "best in all cases" candidate, ever, making me feel like I'm just rolling dice whenever I'm voting.

Other Comments by Sciros

21. Comment #200336 by Diacanu on June 27, 2008 at 10:37 am

Sciros-

I think a "Batman for president" campaign needs to be promoted.

Sounds like a plan to me.

Other Comments by Diacanu

22. Comment #200338 by notsobad on June 27, 2008 at 10:38 am

Carlin on voting:

Now, there's one thing you might have noticed; I don't complain about politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens.
This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out.
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders.
Term limits ain't going to do any good; you're just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans.
So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it's not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here... like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There's a nice campaign slogan for somebody: 'The Public Sucks. Fuck Hope.'

Other Comments by notsobad

23. Comment #200342 by br0k3nglass on June 27, 2008 at 10:45 am

Makes sense to me. Growing up as a Jehovah's Witness I was taught to remain neutral in world affairs and instead focus on supporting God in heralding forth his glorious kingdom which was soon to be implemented on Earth.

The first time I voted in my life was last year (I was 25).

Other Comments by br0k3nglass

24. Comment #200344 by black wolf on June 27, 2008 at 11:00 am

Robert Mugabe claims that God wants him to rule. So, he forces the people at gunpoint to go to the election and vote for him. Guess who his role model is?

Other Comments by black wolf

25. Comment #200359 by Lucas on June 27, 2008 at 11:51 am

The results are part of the nationally representative Baylor Religion Survey, 2005.

Total crap.

"It can be reasoned that if one believes God determines worldly affairs, then there is little reason for individuals to participate in civic events," study leader Robyn Driskell and her colleagues write in the June issue of the journal Social Science Quarterly.

And that's why. Also...

Sample size: 1,700. Total US Population: 305,000,000. So your findings, which make claims about how all Americans vote, are based on .000557% of the populace. Ooooo-kay...

LUCASWB - For Galactus's sake, please change your name. Or should I change mine to DiacanuX51 or SteveZarablara or Ron-the-Fermenter? And why in the world do you even have Christian conservative friends?

Sciros - Yes, Batman. I explained once when this site was only a week old that all my morals come from Batman and cowboy movies. Back then, my handle on this site actually was Batman. I think aspiring to be as much like Batman as possible is a great thing.

'The Public Sucks. Fuck Hope.' - Ha ha ha ha ha ha!!! I want that on a t-shirt.

Other Comments by Lucas

26. Comment #200369 by TeraBrat on June 27, 2008 at 12:17 pm

My parents are religious and they vote. The Jewish vote is so strong in the US because almost all Jews vote, religious or not.

I really hope the Muslims believe they don't need to vote.

3. Comment #200276 by B.L.Z. Bub on June 27, 2008 at 8:24 am

Could be just a correlation? I think there is evidence to suggest that those who have been poorly educated or not done well in education (i.e. bit dim) tend to take less interest in politics and are less likely to get involved in civic affairs. Such people might also be the ones most readily suckered into the type of church talked about above.

I agree.

Other Comments by TeraBrat

27. Comment #200372 by Maybeline on June 27, 2008 at 12:24 pm

*Could be just a correlation? I think there is evidence to suggest that those who have been poorly educated or not done well in education (i.e. bit dim) tend to take less interest in politics and are less likely to get involved in civic affairs. Such people might also be the ones most readily suckered into the type of church talked about above.*

to BLZBub:

Do you have proof of this or is it just a belief?

Other Comments by Maybeline

28. Comment #200377 by Koreman on June 27, 2008 at 12:27 pm

Voters or not, that Louisiana bill has been signed. Fairytales in science class is now OK.

http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2008/06/27/louisiana-well-thats-it-then/

Other Comments by Koreman

29. Comment #200380 by al-rawandi on June 27, 2008 at 12:32 pm

Tera Bat,

I really hope the Muslims believe they don't need to vote.

Me too.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

30. Comment #200385 by Sciros on June 27, 2008 at 12:52 pm

Voters or not, that Louisiana bill has been signed. Fairytales in science class is now OK.

Awesome. Not like I ever wanted to move to that rubbish part of the country anyway. It's already in the bottom 5 in education among states, as expected.

I'm thinking it will be challenged and killerized by a federal court at some point in the near future. If not, it'll probably lead to yet more bills of this sort passed in other states who want to join Louisiana as retard factories.

Other Comments by Sciros

31. Comment #200389 by Border Collie on June 27, 2008 at 12:59 pm

Devil's advocate for the moment here ... and I'm not a bleeding heart whatever and I'm not saying people shouldn't vote ... however, I can understand the apathy of some who don't vote ... I mean, if their lives are going to be miserable (or if they belive such) whether they vote or not, why bother? Furthermore, even if one is intelligent, informed, participatory, etc., look at the US right now and tell me it isn't an extremely difficult decision.

Other Comments by Border Collie

32. Comment #200390 by Apathy personified on June 27, 2008 at 1:00 pm

Out of curiosity, Al and TeraBrat, who are you worried muslims are going to vote for?
Is this a general point or is there a specific candidate/party you have in mind? (I'm assuming you are refering to US elections - No muslims voting in say, Iraq, would bring quite a low turnout i imagine).

Other Comments by Apathy personified

33. Comment #200391 by TeraBrat on June 27, 2008 at 1:09 pm

I made that remark as a general point.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Border Collie,

I have a clear candidate this time. From everything I've heard him say, I think Obama will make a good president

Other Comments by TeraBrat

34. Comment #200393 by Sciros on June 27, 2008 at 1:18 pm

Apathy: If I were to make a wager, I'd say most Muslims (and Muslim nations) would want Obama in power rather than McCain. (I'd be happy to be convinced otherwise...)

Other Comments by Sciros

35. Comment #200397 by tahustvedt on June 27, 2008 at 1:38 pm

I'm sure most of you have seen this: Intelligent people less likely to believe in God

IQ is really a factor of how fit a person is to navigate a respective society and deal with challenges in life, is it not?

Perhaps a connection.

Other Comments by tahustvedt

36. Comment #200404 by Apathy personified on June 27, 2008 at 1:56 pm

Sciros,

Apathy: If I were to make a wager, I'd say most Muslims (and Muslim nations) would want Obama in power rather than McCain. (I'd be happy to be convinced otherwise...)

Maybe, i haven't heard any of the reaction about the US election from the middle east - Whoever does win will still be an american infidel though :).

TeraBrat, thanks for clarifying

Other Comments by Apathy personified

37. Comment #200405 by Vinelectric on June 27, 2008 at 1:59 pm

TeraBrat and Al-rawandi

That's the spirit!
Let's also hope they all disappear mysteriously one day. ;)

Seriously, I thought your American Muzzies are well behaved compared to Europe's. Why the harsh feelings? And I think Apathy has a point. With Obama and McCain in the lead, a comment like that above is a bit daft, don't you think?

Other Comments by Vinelectric

38. Comment #200410 by Double Bass Atheist on June 27, 2008 at 2:19 pm

Isn't it amusing how the pious will, on one hand, attribute just about everything to
"god's plan" and yet they pray?
If the perfect being has the perfect plan, then what are they praying for? ...asking god to alter his perfect plan for the universe, just for that one individual? Will the plan still be perfect???

Oh well... If the kind of thinking from this article holds true, and the fundies don't show up to vote, then I would say their gullibility is a good thing.

Other Comments by Double Bass Atheist

39. Comment #200423 by utelme on June 27, 2008 at 3:17 pm

If some of the statistics quoted are correct and there is such a disproportionate ratio of believers to unbelievers in America then why haven't they been able to change the constitution to suit their agenda?

Other Comments by utelme

40. Comment #200429 by TeraBrat on June 27, 2008 at 3:31 pm

Vinelectric,

I want fundamentalistic Muslims to disappear. I have no problem with moderate Muslims.

Other Comments by TeraBrat

41. Comment #200431 by notsobad on June 27, 2008 at 3:57 pm

Lucas,
the sample size is large enough as long as it was a representative sample.

Other Comments by notsobad

42. Comment #200434 by jdb on June 27, 2008 at 4:14 pm

WWJD?
He'd stay the fuck home on election day.

Other Comments by jdb

43. Comment #200496 by LUCASWB on June 27, 2008 at 6:17 pm

Lucas,
I will consider changing my name for you, but I have to think of a good name that my wife also likes. My son's name is Lucas A. B., but Im gonna let him keep his because he is not a member of this site yet. Also to answer your question I don't know why some of my friends chose to be Christian conservatives. I guess they just are to fuck with me.

Other Comments by LUCASWB

44. Comment #200534 by King of NH on June 27, 2008 at 8:18 pm

Just went to the Obama - Clinton "Unite for Change" rally today. It was great, but outside the rally were peple picketing Obama. But the signs weren't attacking the issues, they were attacking his race, his 'muslim' sounding name, his muslim heritage... All I could think was that these idiots get to vote! I wanted to physically throw these ^#$#^@s out of my state. At least the fundies are less likely to vote.

Other Comments by King of NH

45. Comment #200550 by Layla Nasreddin on June 27, 2008 at 9:25 pm

TeraBrat wrote:

:-/ *sighs* Man, you guys need to start doing research... Per this 2006 Pew study of Muslim-Americans (pdf format), they register to vote less often than the average, and are somewhat less likely to vote.

Interestingly, the major American Muslim groups such as CAIR and MPAC endorsed Bush in the 2000 election! It's difficult to remember so far back, but at the time he claimed he was going to do away with racial profiling and "secret" evidence. Also, it was thought that perhaps Republicans might be more sensitive to the plight of the Palestinians than the Democrats, who were (still are) seen as being "too pro-Israel." In addition, Muslims tend to be "social conservatives" on issues such as abortion, gay marriage, "family values," vouchers for religious schools, and that kind of thing. (According to the Pew study I mentioned above, 61% said homosexuality should be "discouraged by society," while only 38% of the general population said the same thing--51% of Americans thought it should be "accepted by society". This is really an interesting study, I think! :-P)

Now today, as you might suspect, American Muslims are MUCH more likely to be Democrats because of the Iraq war and the Patriot Act and all that kind of thing. But they're still, by and large, quite socially conservative--and don't take very well to anti-religious rhetoric, as you might guess. (72% said religion was "very important" to them, and the younger they were, the more religious they tended to be.) In this respect, they're somewhat like a large proportion of the rapidly growing body of Hispanic voters, who might be quite liberal on "economic" issues but conservative on "social" issues. Which makes me think that we may start seeing more "socially conservative" Democrats in the future in order to appeal to such groups...we'll see.

Other Comments by Layla Nasreddin

46. Comment #200551 by TeraBrat on June 27, 2008 at 9:29 pm

I research what I want to research.

I let you do the rest of the research for me. ;-)

Other Comments by TeraBrat

47. Comment #200552 by Sciros on June 27, 2008 at 9:43 pm

quite liberal on "economic" issues but conservative on "social" issues

Interestingly, the opposite of what college graduates tend to be. The more educated a person, the more likely he/she is to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative.

Other Comments by Sciros

48. Comment #200556 by Layla Nasreddin on June 27, 2008 at 10:06 pm

Sciros wrote:

Interestingly, the opposite of what college graduates tend to be. The more educated a person, the more likely he/she is to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative.

I can attest to "the more education, the more socially liberal" trend, though I have to say I'm not sure about the "fiscally conservative" bit. Is this somehow also related to the well-known finding that the higher educational level a person has achieved, the more likely he/she is to be secular/nonreligious? Gee, I wonder! (Although...I managed the task of being 100% for gay rights while being an observant Muslim; I guess it CAN be done!)

TeraBrat wrote:

I let you do the rest of the research for me. ;-)

Dang it! You ARE a brat! (Just kidding...I think!) :-P

Other Comments by Layla Nasreddin

49. Comment #200559 by mordacious1 on June 27, 2008 at 10:17 pm

Layla

I would think that a lot of muslim women do not vote, or maybe are not allowed to, by the men in their families, which if true would reduce the muslim vote by up to 50%. Although in the U.S. it is probably not that high, but could be a factor.

Other Comments by mordacious1

50. Comment #200635 by Christopher Davis on June 28, 2008 at 2:24 am

I read a story yesterday that I believe was reposted from the NY Times that said the Muslim community was pissed at Obama. It seems that they feel he is trying to distance himself from all things Muslim. The article stated that he had spoken at all types of churches and synagogues, but no mosques. They were also pissed because he referred to claims that he is secretly a Muslim as a "smear".

My question is who can blame the guy? I remember reading another survey a while back (I think it was when Mitt Romney was still in the running) and the only person respondents said they would be less apt to support for the Presidency than a Muslim is an atheist.

As for Muslims voting...I say sure, let them vote. Take their ballot, look them in the eye, smile, rip the ballot in half and say "Inshallah!"
(You can do the same for any evangelical Christian, but you have to add "...and the creek don't rise.")

Other Comments by Christopher Davis