Tuesday, July 8, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version

Landlords protest after pub swearing ban gets them sacked

by The Telegraph

Thanks to Jonas for the link.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2242163/Landlords-protest-after-pub-swearing-ban-gets-them-sacked.html

Landlords protest after pub swearing ban gets them sacked
By Richard Alleyne

A couple sacked from a pub after their ban on swearing saw takings plummet have staged their own lock-in protest at the eviction.

John Fleming, 44, and his wife Krista, 36, both devout Christians, decided that foul language was beyond the pale at the King's Head and started barring any customers who broke the rule.

However so many drinkers were banned that the brewery saw profits fall and decided it was the landlords who had to go.

Now they have imposed more liberal landlords but the Flemings have barricaded themselves into the flat above the pub in north London, in protest.

The couple, who took over the pub in March this year, imposed a ban on swearing.

It was supposed to make for a nicer atmosphere but regulars disagreed and the pub emptied.

Now Oakfield Taverns has employed new manager Jim Jennings, who has a more liberal approach to bad language.

Regulars said that Mrs Fleming would walk round the pub with a Bible, and lecture people for bad language.

John Rudkn, 61, a regular for years, said: "Any swearing and you were barred. It was well over the top."

John's wife, who did not wish to give her name, said she had been told off by Mrs Fleming for bad language.

"You can't run a pub and not swear," she said. "If they are Christians they should run a church, not a bloody pub."

George Whipps, 68, another regular, said people should expect foul language in a pub.

"She put a sign up outside saying no swearing," he said. "This pub in the last eight days has perked up 100 per cent. All of the old regulars are back.

"I have never seen a pub sign pulled down so quickly in my life as this one was. I'm glad it's back to normal and you can swear again."

The Flemings have been together for seven years and have six children. Three of the children live with them above the pub in Islington.

The couple denied the swearing ban had anything to do with their religion and added takings had plummeted because the pub had lost its Sky TV, a credit card machine and the brewery had given them an inconsistent drinks supply.

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1. Comment #206452 by mordacious1 on July 8, 2008 at 11:32 am

ok, I withdraw my complaint about Latest News

[edit] Patron: "You serve some fine fucking beer here."
Matron: "Thanks, now get out and don't come back."

Other Comments by mordacious1

2. Comment #206456 by Tezcatlipoca on July 8, 2008 at 11:36 am

But is the beer any good?

Other Comments by Tezcatlipoca

3. Comment #206462 by Apathy personified on July 8, 2008 at 11:42 am

I knew a landlord who had taught his pet parrot to swear... you have no idea how funny it is to hear a parrot tell someone to fuck off

Other Comments by Apathy personified

4. Comment #206465 by rod-the-farmer on July 8, 2008 at 11:44 am

What possessed (pun intended) this couple to take on management of a pub in the first place ? Were they so busy having children they never got out much, and had no clue what might go on in a pub ? Maybe they never went in one ? I guess their favourite TV show is NOT The Sopranos. Next on their list of management jobs, a garage. After that, a military barracks. And the beat goes on.

Civil discourse is always admirable, but to ban profanity.....gee whillikers, Batman. They could try a voluntary piggy bank for curse words, the proceeds to be given to a local charity, perhaps. Who knows, maybe all patrons would support it.

Other Comments by rod-the-farmer

5. Comment #206468 by decius on July 8, 2008 at 11:46 am

Comment #206462 by Apathy personified

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2933787355612163454

Other Comments by decius

6. Comment #206477 by obscured by clouds on July 8, 2008 at 11:57 am

I knew a landlord who had taught his pet parrot to swear... you have no idea how funny it is to hear a parrot tell someone to fuck off

Yes I do! I have a 3yr Green-Wing Macaw ;)~

Maybe one day I can get it on video, it is funny.

Other Comments by obscured by clouds

7. Comment #206509 by Apathy personified on July 8, 2008 at 12:31 pm

decius,
Haha - Thanks for the video

obscured by clouds,
I hope when people go around to your place for the first time they look at the parrot and go,
'Aww, so cute'
and then the parrot gives them an opinion!

Other Comments by Apathy personified

8. Comment #206516 by Bonzai on July 8, 2008 at 12:36 pm

Am I missing something? I think being the landlord means you own the property by definition, so how can anyone evict the landlord?

Other Comments by Bonzai

9. Comment #206519 by Colwyn Abernathy on July 8, 2008 at 12:39 pm

John Fleming, 44, and his wife Krista, 36, both devout Christians, decided that foul language was beyond the pale at the King's Head and started barring any customers who broke the rule.

Feckin' idiot cunts...banned? Fine! I'll drink elsewhere, you tits...
EDIT:

It was supposed to make for a nicer atmosphere but regulars disagreed and the pub emptied.

In VERY colourful language, I'd wager. George'd be proud. "Blue...OFF-colour..."
EDITEDIT:

The couple denied the swearing ban had anything to do with their religion and added takings had plummeted because the pub had lost its Sky TV, a credit card machine and the brewery had given them an inconsistent drinks supply.

Yet...

"She put a sign up outside saying no swearing," he said. "This pub in the last eight days has perked up 100 per cent. All of the old regulars are back.

Nothing to do with the shitfucking ban, eh? Do me a lemon then...right, I need a piss...

Other Comments by Colwyn Abernathy

10. Comment #206525 by Mango on July 8, 2008 at 12:44 pm

Bonzai, I'm a little perplexed about that as well. I presume that in the UK a "landlord" is an operator (or caretaker) but not the owner.

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11. Comment #206527 by mordacious1 on July 8, 2008 at 12:47 pm

I think a lot of the breweries actually own pubs around, so they have an outlet for their beer. These guys were probably leasing.

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12. Comment #206528 by Colwyn Abernathy on July 8, 2008 at 12:47 pm

Mordacious....have to add this in, even tho you can't hear it... "O Matron, yeeess!" ;)

Other Comments by Colwyn Abernathy

13. Comment #206529 by Monty Burns on July 8, 2008 at 12:48 pm

Am I missing something? I think being the landlord means you own the property by definition, so how can anyone evict the landlord?

Some landlords are tenants of the brewery which owns the pub. They also tell you which beers you can sell.

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14. Comment #206534 by Bonzai on July 8, 2008 at 12:52 pm

Some landlords are tenants of the brewery which owns the pub.

I think it must be a U.K usage. In the arrangement you describe we would say the brewery IS the landlord.

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15. Comment #206541 by Tezcatlipoca on July 8, 2008 at 12:59 pm

Ugh, I need a good beer at a decent temperature...dammit!

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16. Comment #206574 by Border Collie on July 8, 2008 at 1:31 pm

Damn, now this is big news ...

Other Comments by Border Collie

17. Comment #206617 by D'Arcy on July 8, 2008 at 2:50 pm

The Flemings have been together for seven years and have six children. Three of the children live with them above the pub in Islington.

Now that is a fucking miracle, unless of course divine intervention (or other human partners) explain it. People that breed like that and only look after 3 of their 7 children, have no fucking right to tell me whether to swear or not. As it happens I don't go in their pub, nor will I.

Other Comments by D'Arcy

18. Comment #206638 by Szymanowski on July 8, 2008 at 3:38 pm

'Landlord' in this context means 'pub manager'. Pubs are often owned by breweries, which have control of which beers are sold. Brewery-independent pubs are called "free houses".

In other contexts in the UK 'landlord' has the normal definition of a property owner who leases property.

Other Comments by Szymanowski

19. Comment #206641 by Jack Rawlinson on July 8, 2008 at 3:46 pm

Awww. Poor little martyrs.

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20. Comment #206686 by cafeeine on July 8, 2008 at 4:48 pm

8. Comment #206516 by Bonzai Am I missing something? I think being the landlord means you own the property by definition, so how can anyone evict the landlord?

The idea of landlords as paid employees is not that uncommon. If a building is owned by a large corporation it makes sense that the person taking care of the landlord's duties will be a paid employee (older readers might remember Don Knotts in the sitcom 'Three's Company')

Other Comments by cafeeine

21. Comment #206723 by riki on July 8, 2008 at 5:35 pm

They should give the gambling industry a try next time. If that fails they could always open a brothel.

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22. Comment #206728 by Bonzai on July 8, 2008 at 5:42 pm

If a building is owned by a large corporation it makes sense that the person taking care of the landlord's duties will be a paid employee

Here we call such a person a superintendent or simply property manager. "Landlord" always means the owner (person or corporation).Different usage.

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23. Comment #206825 by King of NH on July 8, 2008 at 9:15 pm

Oh, foul language...

I thought it was maybe a rule against making promises when drunk (I swear babe [refering to some indescretion]! -or- I swear I'll buy the next round). That made sense, and I didn't see what the problem was. This would be a good ban.

But foul language? Odd. The Landlords might be offended by "Fuckin' good beer" but I'm rather offended by "God bless you." Who's to decide what the more offensive? Answer: the customer. Now shut up... ...bitches.

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24. Comment #206868 by utelme on July 8, 2008 at 11:05 pm

I wonder if they sell the same port my wife bought in her wilder days. It has the label "Fucking Good Port..Good Fucking Port". Tastes ok too!

Other Comments by utelme

25. Comment #206889 by Apemanblues on July 9, 2008 at 12:14 am

Their next venture should be running a whorehouse where you can't take your pants off.

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26. Comment #206910 by DamnDirtyApe on July 9, 2008 at 1:04 am

My cousin took over a pub on Islay, way way out on the edge of the Scottish hebredian isles.

The old landlady had a few rules. perhaps the dominant one was NO TALKING.

I gather they've taken a rather different approach in management ever since.

Other Comments by DamnDirtyApe

27. Comment #207011 by bamboospitfire on July 9, 2008 at 5:04 am

And what are the chances that the level of swearing in that pub has now gone significantly up? What a pair of utter morons.

On the landlord issue, the term is used to refer to the managers of pubs owned by breweries because historically the owner of the property would act as the pub manager and would also rent out rooms in the property. That is still the case in privately-owned pubs, but the terminology is also applied to the managers of brewery-owned pubs, not least because "bar manager" is a fucking hideous term.

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28. Comment #207051 by pwl on July 9, 2008 at 6:01 am

Guess they weren't 'landlords' at a weatherspoons pub (Large atmosphere sucking pub chain in UK which I think I remember banning swearing - not that you'd know if you ever went in one).

I think the title landlord has been pretty well discussed now but most people in the UK would use the term to describe the people in charge of the pub. I would think of it just as the traditional title.

Other Comments by pwl

29. Comment #207169 by V'Ger on July 9, 2008 at 9:06 am

^ Haha... I've got a crappy Weatherspoons near me (who hasn't right?).

One look inside - and you'd also think they must have banned women too ;-)

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30. Comment #207365 by alan baylis on July 9, 2008 at 3:20 pm

The article only tells part of the tale.

I heard that when people asked to have their glass refilled, the landlady was often heard to say something like "what, another one? You've had two already. It isn't good for you, you know!"

Not really. Just kidding. :)))

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31. Comment #207433 by utelme on July 9, 2008 at 7:38 pm