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Wednesday, July 9, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version Print | Comments

Document New legal threat to school science in the US

by New Scientist

Thanks to Claire Bowles for the link.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19926643.300?B

New legal threat to school science in the US
By Amanda Gefter

BARBARA FORREST knew the odds were stacked against her. "They had 50 or 60 people in the room," she says. Her opponents included lobbyists, church leaders and a crowd of home-schooled children. "They were wearing stickers, clapping, cheering and standing in the aisles." Those on Forrest's side numbered less than a dozen, including two professors from Louisiana State University, representatives from the Louisiana Association of Educators and campaigners for the continued separation of church and state.

That was on 21 May, when Forrest testified in the Louisiana state legislature on the dangers hidden in the state's proposed Science Education Act. She had spent weeks trying to muster opposition to the bill on the grounds that it would allow teachers and school boards across the state to present non-scientific alternatives to evolution, including ideas related to intelligent design (ID) - the proposition that life is too complicated to have arisen without the help of a supernatural agent.

The act is designed to slip ID in "through the back door", says Forrest, who is a professor of philosophy at Southeastern Louisiana University and an expert in the history of creationism. She adds that the bill's language, which names evolution along with global warming, the origins of life and human cloning as worthy of "open and objective discussion", is an attempt to misrepresent evolution as scientifically controversial.

Forrest's testimony notwithstanding, the bill was passed by the state's legislature - by a majority of 94 to 3 in the House and by unanimous vote in the Senate. On 28 June, Louisiana's Republican governor, Piyush "Bobby" Jindal, signed the bill into law. The development has national implications, not least because Jindal is rumoured to be on Senator John McCain's shortlist as a potential running mate in his bid for the presidency.

Born in 1971 to parents recently arrived from India, Jindal is a convert to Roman Catholicism and a Rhodes scholar - hardly the profile of a typical Bible-belt politician. Yet in a recent national television appearance he voiced approval for the teaching of ID alongside evolution. He also enjoys a close relationship with the Louisiana Family Forum (LFF), a lobbying group for the religious right whose mission statement includes "presenting biblical principles" in "centers of influence". It was the LFF which set the bill in motion earlier this year.

"We believe that to teach young people critical thinking skills you have to give them both sides of an issue," says Gene Mills, executive director of the LFF. When asked whether the new law fits with the organisation's religious agenda, Mills told New Scientist: "Certainly it's an extension of it."

The new legislation is the latest manoeuvre in a long-running war to challenge the validity of Darwinian evolution as an accepted scientific fact in American classrooms. Forrest played a pivotal role in the previous battle. It came to a head at a trial in 2005 when US district judge John E. Jones ruled against the Dover area school board in Pennsylvania, whose members had voted that students in high-school biology classes should be encouraged to explore alternatives to evolution and directed to textbooks on ID.

The Dover trial, during which Forrest presented evidence that ID was old-fashioned creationism by another name (New Scientist, 29 October 2005, p 6), revolved around the question of whether ID was science or religion. Jones determined it was the latter, and ruled in favour of the parents who challenged the Dover board on the basis of the provision for separation of church and state in the US constitution.

The strategy being employed in Louisiana by proponents of ID - including the Seattle-based Discovery Institute - is more subtle and potentially more difficult to challenge. Instead of trying to prove that ID is science, they have sought to bestow on teachers the right to introduce non-scientific alternatives to evolution under the banner of "academic freedom".

"Academic freedom is a great thing," says Josh Rosenau of the National Center for Science Education in Oakland, California. "But if you look at the American Association of University Professors' definition of academic freedom, it refers to the ability to do research and publish." This, he points out, is different to the job high-school teachers are supposed to do. "In high school, you're teaching mainstream science so students can go on to college or medical school, where you need that freedom to explore cutting-edge ideas. To apply 'academic freedom' to high school is a misuse of the term."

"It's very slick," says Forrest. "The religious right has co-opted the terminology of the progressive left... They know that phrase appeals to people."
"It's very slick...The religious right has co-opted the terminology of the progressive left"

The new usage began to permeate public consciousness earlier this year with the release of the documentary film Expelled: No intelligence allowed. Starring actor, game-show host and former Nixon speech-writer Ben Stein, the film argues that academic freedom is under attack in the US from atheist "Darwinists". The film's promoters teamed up with the Discovery Institute to set up the Academic Freedom Petition. Their website provides a "model academic freedom statute on evolution" to serve as a template for sympathetic legislators.

So far, representatives from six states have taken up the idea. In Florida, Missouri, South Carolina and Alabama, bills were introduced but failed. An academic freedom bill now in committee in Michigan is expected to stall there.

Louisiana is another story. A hub of creationist activism since the early 1980s, it was Louisiana that enacted the Balanced Treatment Act, which required that creationism be taught alongside evolution in schools. In a landmark 1987 case known as Edwards vs Aguillard, the US Supreme Court ruled the law unconstitutional, effectively closing the door on teaching "creation science" in public schools. ID was invented soon afterwards as a way of proffering creationist concepts without specific reference to God.

In 2006, the year following the Dover ruling, the Ouachita parish school board in northern Louisiana quietly initiated a new tactic, unanimously approving a science curriculum policy that stated: "Teachers shall be permitted to help students understand, analyze, critique, and review in an objective manner the scientific strengths and weaknesses of existing scientific theories pertinent to the course being taught." The idea that evolution has weaknesses, and is therefore not a solid scientific theory, is a recurring theme in ID-related literature. Not long afterwards, the assistant superintendent of the Ouachita parish school system, Frank Hoffman, was elected to the state House of Representatives and joined the House education committee. "I knew then that something was going to happen," says Forrest.

When Jindal was elected governor last year, the stage was set. The LFF approached Ben Nevers, a state senator, who agreed to introduce the Louisiana Academic Freedom Act on their behalf. "They believe that scientific data related to creationism should be discussed when dealing with Darwin's theory," Nevers told the Hammond Daily Star in April. The bill was later amended and renamed the Louisiana Science Education Act. Its final version includes a statement that the law should not be taken as promoting religion.

That way, those who wish to challenge Darwinian evolution have "plausible deniability" that this is intended to teach something unconstitutional, says Eric Rothschild of the Philadelphia-based law firm Pepper Hamilton, which represented the parents at the Dover trial. "They are better camouflaged now."

Supporters of the new law clearly hope that teachers and administrators who wish to raise alternatives to evolution in science classes will feel protected if they do so. The law expressly permits the use of "supplemental" classroom materials in addition to state-approved textbooks. The LFF is now promoting the use of online "add-ons" that put a creationist spin on the contents of various science texts in use across the state, and the Discovery Institute has recently produced Explore Evolution, a glossy text that offers the standard ID critiques of evolution (see "The evolution of creationist literature"). Unlike its predecessor Of Pandas and People, which fared badly during the Dover trial, it does not use the term "intelligent design".

Because the law allows individual boards and teachers to make additions to the science curriculum without clearance from a state authority, the responsibility will lie with parents to mount a legal challenge to anything that appears to be an infringement of the separation of church and state. "In Dover, there were parents and teachers willing to step forward and say, this is not OK," says Rosenau. "But here we're seeing that people are either fine with it or they don't want to say anything because they don't want to be ostracised in their community."

Even if a trial ensues, a victory by the plaintiffs will only mean that some specific supplementary material is ruled unconstitutional - not the law itself. Separate lawsuits will be needed to address each piece of suspicious supplementary material. "This encourages a lot of local brush fires that you have to deal with individually and that makes it very difficult," says Forrest. "This is done intentionally, to get this down to the local level. It's going to be very difficult to even know what's going on."

Ultimately, if a number of suits are successfully tried, a group like the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) could take the law itself to court, citing various cases in which it was used to bring religious material into the classroom. Representatives from the ACLU and from Americans United for Separation of Church and State have already told Louisiana state officials that lawsuits will follow if the law is used for religious ends.

In the meantime, Forrest is working to inform teachers about the supplementary materials being made available. "The pressing need for the coming school year is to get the word out for what teachers need to be on alert for," she says.

As to a future Dover-style trial, this time on Forrest's home turf, "I'll be right there," she says, though it's not a prospect she relishes. "I'd like to think I won't have to do this for the rest of my life. Because believe me, I don't do it for fun. It's a duty."

Evolution - Learn more about the struggle to survive in our comprehensive special report.

Focus on America - Delve into the science and technology questions facing the USA in our special report.
From issue 2664 of New Scientist magazine, 09 July 2008, page 8-10

Comments 1 - 50 of 63 |

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1. Comment #207263 by Ian Bamlett on July 9, 2008 at 12:07 pm

 avatarBarbara Forrest is a hero of our time.

Other Comments by Ian Bamlett

2. Comment #207269 by 82abhilash on July 9, 2008 at 12:20 pm

Perhaps it is time to shift from the more familiar process of legal and structural reform, to the less familiar and more time-consuming process of social reform. That way when it is time to bring in the 'add-ons' they will most probably be books authored by Richard Dawkins.

Other Comments by 82abhilash

3. Comment #207270 by JamesDB on July 9, 2008 at 12:23 pm

 avatarWhat bugs me about this is that im sure many more people who are against this bill would have been there had they known about it.
This is a perfect example of how religious people get the word out fast of where they need to be to get things done.
The states needs more politicians who can stand up to these religious nutters and stop this kind of legislation.

Other Comments by JamesDB

4. Comment #207271 by al-rawandi on July 9, 2008 at 12:23 pm

 avatarEven as an American, sometimes I say "Fuck em, let them teach that bullshit to a bunch of slack jawed yokel kids and see where it gets them."

Hopefully this stops in the south with the idiots and back water morons. We need ditch diggers too.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

5. Comment #207273 by decius on July 9, 2008 at 12:30 pm

 avatar
a bunch of slack jawed yokel kids


ROTFL

Other Comments by decius

6. Comment #207277 by mesha on July 9, 2008 at 12:36 pm

 avatarHaha, God Bless America.

Other Comments by mesha

7. Comment #207279 by aflacgirl84 on July 9, 2008 at 12:36 pm

My condolences to all those from Louisiana!
And to Barbara Forrest: Please keep up the good work you and many others (I am sure!) are doing, not only in Louisiana, but all over the nation and world!
My most sincere Thank you!

Other Comments by aflacgirl84

8. Comment #207285 by steve8282 on July 9, 2008 at 12:52 pm

There is a reason that Steely Dan refer to them as flyover states.

Other Comments by steve8282

9. Comment #207293 by Zenith on July 9, 2008 at 1:07 pm

Because the law allows individual boards and teachers to make additions to the science curriculum without clearance from a state authority, the responsibility will lie with parents to mount a legal challenge to anything that appears to be an infringement of the separation of church and state.


Anything besides evolution or soemthing like Lamarckism would seem to me to have to be religous or supernatural.

I'm glad people like Barbara Forrest have the energy to keep up the 'good fight'.

Other Comments by Zenith

10. Comment #207296 by Garnok on July 9, 2008 at 1:12 pm

"We believe that to teach young people critical thinking skills you have to give them both sides of an issue," says Gene Mills, executive director of the LFF.


On the surface this is true. Too bad that is not what they want to do. Instead they seek to present a polished lump of shit version of their side versus a version of the other other side that is at best lackluster or seriously misrepresented at worst.

Other Comments by Garnok

11. Comment #207299 by Blondin on July 9, 2008 at 1:18 pm

It's tempting to adopt al-rawandi's attitude but we have to remember that the slack-jawed, mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging kids of today are the tradespeople, realtors, clerks, jurors, dentists, and *VOTERS* of tomorrow. We and our offspring may be at their mercy some day.

Other Comments by Blondin

12. Comment #207300 by Godfree Gordon on July 9, 2008 at 1:21 pm

 avatarHey, y'all over there in the States.

Murder is a crime - so is attempted murder. Same too for robbery and attempted robbery.

From here downunder it would appear a imple fix for ACLU or someone to propose a bill that makes "attempted" NON separation of church and state a crime - so as soon as one of your so far clever judges, smells the ID rat for what it is some smart DA can then prosecute for the attempt...

Worth a shot?

Ooroo

Other Comments by Godfree Gordon

13. Comment #207304 by Burt Likko on July 9, 2008 at 1:28 pm

 avatarI wonder, is there "academic freedom" to teach geocentricity and teach the flaws and historical criticisms of Copernican theory? After all, it's only a theory that the Earth revolves around the sun.

And what about the "theory of gravity?" That's being presented as a "fact," too. What about the academic freedom to present the alternative and intellectually exciting theory of intelligent falling?

Other Comments by Burt Likko

14. Comment #207305 by MelM on July 9, 2008 at 1:30 pm

"Academic Freedom" doesn't have to directly teach ID or Creation Science; if crackpot teachers are able to trash Evolution the students' minds, faith and religion are protected from reason and science. Anti-reason, anti-science, anti-Western Civilization, and un-American; the "Christain Nation" movement is very dangerous.

Other Comments by MelM

15. Comment #207310 by al-rawandi on July 9, 2008 at 1:38 pm

 avatarblondin,




I am so depressed to be an American today.


I have a few other ideas.

1) Voter IQ tests. Gotta beat 100 to get in the booth.

2) Targeted euthanasia, unborn, born, whatever. Fucking kill the morons.


These people (I hope) will not hold positions on the bench. Nor be anything but manual labor.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

16. Comment #207311 by Crazy_Swede on July 9, 2008 at 1:40 pm

 avatarJust give up already. Your country is fucked.

Other Comments by Crazy_Swede

17. Comment #207312 by heafnerj on July 9, 2008 at 1:41 pm

 avatarGet used to this folks. In the theocratic/corporate/neoconservative republic that America has become, we simply can't win this battle. It's over. The next third world country will be the U.S.

I am currently writing an introductory science textbook, the first chapter of which exposes the Wedge Document as the outline for these people to undermine science. It's time we made our students (I teach at the college level) aware of this since it will no doubt affect most if not all of them sometime during their lives.

Other Comments by heafnerj

18. Comment #207315 by ksskidude on July 9, 2008 at 1:45 pm

 avatarThen let's propose that students in LA learn the Spaghetti Monster Theory for how the world was created. Let's just open up a can of any possiblity, beacsue we certianly want academic freedom," and do not want those students to feel slighted. So anyone who has an idea that can possibly be considered other than evolution, "the truth," please go to the board of LA and submit, If refused "sue" on grounds that your idea/theory has just as much falsiability as ID or lack there of.

Let the games begin.....

Other Comments by ksskidude

19. Comment #207319 by Ian Bamlett on July 9, 2008 at 1:58 pm

 avatarComment #207311 by Crazy_Swede

Just give up already. Your country is fucked.



.... Ummmm... Brian C?

Surely no one else would use that avatar?

:-)

Other Comments by Ian Bamlett

20. Comment #207324 by phil rimmer on July 9, 2008 at 2:03 pm

 avatarI'd like Fighting Falcon to come here and tell us again why this is a blip, and it'll all be OK.

The rich poor divide is getting shamefully worse in the UK. It can't afford to get any worse in the US without the risk of instability........Hang on...

The Answer is of course for California and the other intelligent states to secede from the Union, then let 'em sink under the weight of their own stupidity.

Other Comments by phil rimmer

21. Comment #207325 by Crazy_Swede on July 9, 2008 at 2:05 pm

 avatarNo. Just someone who realize where the US is headed. Straight to uhm, no... I won't use that word :)

Other Comments by Crazy_Swede

22. Comment #207335 by tonykw on July 9, 2008 at 2:16 pm

Great.

America's labour market is currently full of lots of almost unemplyable uneducated individuals, people who can barely read or add up a list of grocery items. Illiterate and innumerate!

Now they won't be able to tell the truth from myth.

Other Comments by tonykw

23. Comment #207336 by D'Arcy on July 9, 2008 at 2:16 pm

 avatarQuestioning the basis of any scientific theory can only be a good thing, as long as the evidence for the theory remains clear. As I understand it, a scientific theory is the best available current explanation of reality. Theories are necessarily provisional. If the Flinstones of Louisiana really want to discard modern science, then they will also have to discard any benefits that are derived from its ("just") theories. Go and join the Amish and ride horses, put down your guns and pick up a spade. Don't use modern medicine, that's based on the scientific method which is all "just theories".

I hope the teachers will be able to explain just how the Earth, sorry the sun, stood still for a day to help Joshua. I never could understand it.

Other Comments by D'Arcy

24. Comment #207338 by Ian Bamlett on July 9, 2008 at 2:18 pm

 avatarComment #207325 by Crazy_Swede

No. Just someone who realize where the US is headed


Ah ok... just we had a guy on this site who used to use that Avatar... and was from Sweden. And was a bit crazy.

Coincidence...

... I'm sure.

;-)

Other Comments by Ian Bamlett

25. Comment #207343 by Border Collie on July 9, 2008 at 2:39 pm

Trying to save Louisiana from creationism is like trying to save Louisiana from mosquitos, Tobasco sauce and crayfish. It isn't going to happen. Louisiana is one of the most backward states in the US, if not THE most backward. I'm surprised that anyone can even spell 'evolution' there.

Other Comments by Border Collie

26. Comment #207359 by liberalartist on July 9, 2008 at 3:10 pm

 avatarAs a yankee currently living in the deap south, I have seen first-hand how ignorant and backward it can be. The vast majority of good students that come to my college, are private-educated. This is just another nail in the coffin of public education. For some reason it seems to be something christian conservatives want to detroy (or at least turn into Sunday School). And, IMHO, public education is one of the primary reasons we became a great nation to begin with.

Sometimes I feel like this country is becoming the "Saudi Arabia of Christianity"

Other Comments by liberalartist

27. Comment #207367 by jenlaferriere on July 9, 2008 at 3:22 pm

 avataral-rawandi:

I am so depressed to be an American today.

I have a few other ideas.

1) Voter IQ tests. Gotta beat 100 to get in the booth.

2) Targeted euthanasia, unborn, born, whatever. Fucking kill the morons.


These people (I hope) will not hold positions on the bench. Nor be anything but manual labor


Unfortunetly, it's comments like your second idea, that lead some people to believe that Atheists do not honor and respect human life... which according to them leads to eugenics etc, etc.

I usually agree with your comments on here and you have a lot of knowledge and insight. Yet this time I need to say. I do not aggree.

"nuf said.

Other Comments by jenlaferriere

28. Comment #207374 by GregPhillips on July 9, 2008 at 3:32 pm

 avatarAmen y'all.

FUCK!! Did i just say that ???

BANG! thunk ....

Other Comments by GregPhillips

29. Comment #207376 by MelM on July 9, 2008 at 3:34 pm

This is imposing the views of one cult--the "Christian Nation" cult--on the state of Louisiana.

Other Comments by MelM

30. Comment #207384 by severalspeciesof on July 9, 2008 at 3:41 pm

 avataral-rawandi,

I too am depressed over this, but lighten up man. No need to talk about euthanasia as being a viable alternative. I'm not at all that keen on the 'framing' issue, but your apparent views here won't do anyone any good. And I say apparent because this reaction of yours' seems a bit out of character here. What's going on here? Just curious.

Other Comments by severalspeciesof

31. Comment #207401 by Ed-words on July 9, 2008 at 4:54 pm

If they think kids should get BOTH sides of

"how we got here", why don't they teach

evolution in their home schools and

Christian academies? No academic

freedom there.


Hypocrites!

Other Comments by Ed-words

32. Comment #207403 by Rational_G on July 9, 2008 at 5:06 pm

 avatarRed States = Jesusland.

Sigh....

Sounds like we need another lawsuit.

Other Comments by Rational_G

33. Comment #207404 by 82abhilash on July 9, 2008 at 5:07 pm

It is not all that bad. All it means that people at the local level will be able to decide for themselves whether to teach creationism or not. It is not like someone from the top is telling everybody else what to teach in schools. Let the crazy teachers expose themselves with their useless 'add-ons'; let them make the rope to hang themselves with.

More local power means more local responsibility, which means in Louisiana the fight for science will be fought by responsible parents school district by school district.

Now if parents do want to keep their own children ignorant, only in those particular school districts will creationism be taught. Which means people in the region has consented to what is happening in their schools. Those type of people are not going to teach science to their kids regardless of the law. So now they get to send them to public schools...

Imposing ignorance on ones own children is immoral, but it is not illegal. Plus they will do it anyway. So this law may not be the shot in the arm for creationism that it is being played out to be. It could leave Louisana the way it always was, perhaps even make things better there. Ask me why and I will tell.

Bottom line. Wait and watch.

Other Comments by 82abhilash

34. Comment #207407 by Radesq on July 9, 2008 at 5:20 pm

 avatarWhile this is an unfortunate development I am guardedly optimistic that the days of "it's cool to be stupid and proud of it" are coming to an end in most of the US. What can I possibly be basing that on? Well I think every Presidential administration leaves their mark not only on the government in Washington DC but also on the culture. I think much of America (judging by popularity polls) is rather fed up with W and his good ol' boy routine. I'm not guarantying an intellectual renaissance under Obama or a straight talk austerity under McCain. But I hope and expect that the culture will shift focus away from bimbos like Lilo and Britney, and from Larry the cable guy and the rest of the blue collar comedy class. To what I'm not sure -- but it is sure to be different and right now that is enough.

Other Comments by Radesq

35. Comment #207423 by 82abhilash on July 9, 2008 at 6:56 pm


35. Comment #207407 by Radesq on July 9, 2008 at 5:20 pm
While this is an unfortunate development I am guardedly optimistic..


Guardedly optimistic, that is where I am at right now.

Other Comments by 82abhilash

36. Comment #207429 by squinky on July 9, 2008 at 7:20 pm

 avatarTO ALL AMERICANS BEMOANING THE LOUSIANA LAW:

Didn't you read?
representatives from six states have taken up the idea. In Florida, Missouri, South Carolina and Alabama, bills were introduced but failed. An academic freedom bill now in committee in Michigan is expected to stall there.
That's in addition to them having their Xtian asses handed to them in Dover.

Stop being cunty! America sans Lousiana is still a better and more free country than any other place on Earth.

Other Comments by squinky

37. Comment #207434 by Nephite on July 9, 2008 at 7:42 pm

And in the next breath these people say they're pro-education. What a lie!

Other Comments by Nephite

38. Comment #207435 by discipline on July 9, 2008 at 7:55 pm


Just give up already. Your country is fucked.


Possibly. Or this sort of law may be the best thing that's happened to science education since Sputnik.

Teaching ID side-by-side with evolution is a perfect way to educate students about what the scientific method is, the ubiquity of logical fallacies, the nature of human irrationality, and the varieties of magical thinking. Debunking ID is like shooting fish in a barrel, after all.

For the same reason, I would definitely also support teaching astrology alongside astronomy, geocentrism alongside heliocentrism, homeopathy alongside medicine, free energy alongside thermodynamics, etc. This could be a fun way for students to get something out of high school that they evidently don't now: critical thinking skills.

I say bring it on!

Other Comments by discipline

39. Comment #207447 by dragonfirematrix on July 9, 2008 at 8:39 pm

 avatarThe remedy to religionists pushing the indoctrination of creationism and intelligent design is simple...

...the non-religious and non-fanatical parents can home school their children in real sciences, or those same parents can enroll their children in schools teaching valid (non-religious) subject matter.

There is no requirement of any parent to send their children to religious propaganda schools to be brainwashed by the terrorists of the different American sects/cults.

Religion is terrorism.

Other Comments by dragonfirematrix

40. Comment #207465 by William Sierichs Jr. on July 9, 2008 at 10:34 pm

I'm as ticked off about Louisiana's law as every other defender of science against superstition, and I'm angry at the moronic public officials who have done massive damage to a troubled state that is desperately trying to attract high-tech businesses and better-educated workers/residents.
But apropos some comments -- many people in Louisiana recognize the law is unconstitional and scientific garbage. Barbara Forrest is not alone. A number of La. educators and scientists fought alongside her. Also:
1) The newspaper in Baton Rouge, the capital, [disclaimer - I work for the paper] wrote 3 editorials against this foolishness, as well as running a sizable number of letters con and pro. I think any unbiased reader would agree that the defenders of science were far more intelligent than the creationists.
2) The New Orleans Secular Humanist Association (NOSHA) is very active and includes scientists who fought the bill. I must add that all its members survived Katrina, even though quite a few are now scattered around the U.S., while statistically, most of Katrina's victims must have been Christians. Score one for the atheists. Their activities included a newsletter, securing pro-secular proclamations from Mayor Nagin and running a weekly TV show [another disclaimer -- I was a guest on 2 shows, dealing with Christianity's history and a book of essays I published].
3) A New Orleans Darwin Day celebration had its 9th year at the University of New Orleans. NOSHA started it, but the UNO academics now run it. This year's guests included Barbara Forrest, a NOSHA member, and Michael Shermer.
4) Louisiana has or had several other freethought groups, including a sizable group in Shreveport, in northwest La., in the 1990s. I was a member. It broke up because people moved away (mostly due to the economy) but I've heard a new group has formed. I have not kept up with all state activities, but I know some papers have printed vigorous rebuttals to the creationists and theo-Nazis.
If Professor Dawkins or P.Z. Myers or other big guns in the freedom of religion/good science movement want to help battle the forces of cretinism and superstition in La., perhaps they could volunteer to speak at next year's Darwin Day in N.O., and maybe lure a couple of dozen out-of-staters to visit.
As an FYI, despite Katrina and other problems, you can still enjoy a lot of decadence in the New Orleans area, and I'm sure some NOSHA members would love to show outsiders around to the best restaurants, bars, nightclubs, etc., or to nature trails and bayou tours, if you prefer. Even formerly stick-in-the-mud Baton Rouge now boasts a few museums and other features downtown that are worth a day trip for anyone tired of the decadence of Bourbon Street, etc. (No, I am not paid by the La. Tourism Commission, but will happily volunteer to show visitors around BR, or help them indulge their appetites in New Orleans' dens of iniquity).

Other Comments by William Sierichs Jr.

41. Comment #207466 by mordacious1 on July 9, 2008 at 10:39 pm

Jindal is such a twat. If he becomes VP he could easily be President, with John McCain barely alive. This would mean we'd be replacing a bush with a twat...if we wanted that, we should have voted for Hilary, she has the real deal.

Other Comments by mordacious1

42. Comment #207468 by William Sierichs Jr. on July 9, 2008 at 10:43 pm

A point I should have made in my post above: Having someone like Dawkins or Myers speak at N.O.'s Darwin Day could be used to generate a lot of statewide publicity for evolution/science and a lot of embarassment for the creationists. It would be even better if it could be shown that either one drew a bunch of out-of-state visitors to the event. That would be an exclamation point to the reasonable position.
Bill

Other Comments by William Sierichs Jr.

43. Comment #207475 by paulwwww on July 9, 2008 at 11:14 pm

I have to agree with 82Abhilash;

It is not all that bad. All it means that people at the local level will be able to decide for themselves whether to teach creationism or not. It is not like someone from the top is telling everybody else what to teach in schools. Let the crazy teachers expose themselves with their useless 'add-ons'; let them make the rope to hang themselves with.


The whole federal "no child left behind" act, while on the surface sounds like a good idea. Certainly we want all of our children to graduate being able to read and write. However it seems like education in the United States was way better when the Fed stayed out of it, and let the states run the show. Basically the way the Constitution was setup in the first place.

Other Comments by paulwwww

44. Comment #207495 by Raiko on July 10, 2008 at 12:21 am

 avatarWe can only beg parents to cause uproar every time ID is actually taught by the teachers. It's STILL unconstitutional. It's not unconstitutional to reproduce debates between scientists where to stick this or that animal or fossil within evolution, but it IS unconstitutional to teach ID.

Other Comments by Raiko

45. Comment #207500 by YssiBoo on July 10, 2008 at 12:27 am

 avatarThe American Constitution (and every other constitution for that matter) should be amended with a paragraph ensuring that only empirically tested and verified science can be taught in science class rooms. It is clearly not enough with the 'separation between church and state'-bit.

Other Comments by YssiBoo

46. Comment #207502 by Christopher Davis on July 10, 2008 at 12:48 am

 avatarDamn Al, it seems some people just have no sense of humor. Suggest a little positive eugenics and everybody gets upset, WTF?

However, I must admit that I almost took umbrage with your comments regarding slack-jawed yokels and ditch diggers.

When I was a young lad growing up in Alabama, I distinctly recall wanting to be a ditch-digger...when I was six, it seemed like fun.

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47. Comment #207538 by Tyler Durden on July 10, 2008 at 2:17 am

 avatarIt's been mentioned here before with regard to teaching ID in schools but I'll repeat it again:

What exactly are they looking to teach alongside evolution? Has anybody read an ID curriculum?

Surely "GodDidIt" would be a very short lesson in biology, physics, astronomy, etc. compared to what is actually known.

Just curious.

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48. Comment #207579 by sornord on July 10, 2008 at 3:03 am

Teaching ID side-by-side with evolution is a perfect way to educate students about what the scientific method is, the ubiquity of logical fallacies, the nature of human irrationality, and the varieties of magical thinking. Debunking ID is like shooting fish in a barrel, after all.


But the deck seems stacked against teachers who would give ID its drubbing in science class. I'm afraid that those teachers, because of these sorts of bills, are vulnerable to parental harassment and complaints to school administration that they are "denying my kid's rights."

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49. Comment #207605 by MrPinz on July 10, 2008 at 3:49 am

 avatarI'd really like to sit in a science class in America that's teaching ID. I'd imagine the class would last approx 1 min and go something like:
"So today class I'm going to teach you about ID. Let's start at the beginning. First of all a supernatural being created everything ever, and then.....er.....um.....that's it!!"
What a joke.

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50. Comment #207629 by half_arsed on July 10, 2008 at 4:11 am

Doesn't bringing ID into the classroom open its foundational principles to scientific scrutiny?

Correct me if I'm wrong but ID goes: Evolution couldn't happen so it needs supernatural agency.

That makes that supernatural agency (god) part of a 'scientific' theory, meaning that its existence is a scientific question.

This means that science teachers could be well within their rights to scientifically show the implausibility of god's existence. Just imagine how infuriated the IDiots would be at that!

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