Friday, July 11, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version

Weak US dollar hits papal profits

by BBC News

Thanks to Edward Bradburn for the link.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7501486.stm

Weak US dollar hits papal profits

The Vatican made a loss last year as the weaker dollar reduced the value of donations from the faithful in the United States.

Almost a quarter of the $79.8m (£40.4m) worth of offerings it received came from collections made in US churches.

But as the dollar lost 15% of its value against the euro, the Catholic Church's governing body made a loss of 9.1m euros (£7.3m: $14.3m) in 2007.

That was despite receiving a single anonymous donation of $14.3m.

In a statement it said that it had been affected "primarily to the sudden and noticeable inversion of the previous trends in exchange rates, most noticeably the US dollar".

Its latest accounts show that the Vatican made 236.7m euros in 2007 compared with outgoings of 245.8m euros.

After the US, the largest offerings - which it quotes in dollars - came from Italy, where churchgoers gave $8.6m directly to the Vatican last year and Germany, where the faithful gave $4m.

Vatican TV
The Vatican also generated revenue from a number of other sources last year, including the 4.3 million visitors to its museums, including the Sistine Chapel.

The Vatican Television Centre, which broadcasts the Pope's regular audiences in St Peter's Square and reports on his visits abroad, made a profit of almost 500,000 euros, while the Vatican Publishing House ended the year with a surplus of 1.6m euros.

But Vatican Radio and the Vatican newspaper together made a loss of 14.6m euros.
The Vatican first revealed its accounts in 1981 under Pope John Paul II to challenge the prevailing idea that it was rich.

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1. Comment #208803 by Stephen Maxwell on July 11, 2008 at 9:12 am

I bet they're missing Mother Teresa these days.

How shocking that many people should think the Vatican are rich. It's not just about cash people, but about those other two golden words:

Real estate!

Other Comments by Stephen Maxwell

2. Comment #208804 by Tyler Durden on July 11, 2008 at 9:13 am

There is a God.

er, no, wait... :)

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3. Comment #208807 by Sally Luxmoore on July 11, 2008 at 9:17 am

Something about clouds and silver linings comes to mind. . .

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4. Comment #208810 by Sally Luxmoore on July 11, 2008 at 9:20 am

However: This is also from the same site.

CHURCH OFFERINGS TO VATICAN
United States: $18.7m
Italy: $8.6m
Germany $4m
Spain: $2.7m
France: $2.4m
Ireland: $2.2m
Brazil: $1.4m
South Korea: $1.1m
Source: Vatican

Paying for paedophiles?

Other Comments by Sally Luxmoore

5. Comment #208811 by Vaal on July 11, 2008 at 9:22 am

What? Surely Darth Ratty has the hotline to God? Couldn't he get the latest futures details to save the faithful losing out on their donations? After all, he has Christ dressing him every morning.

Na, God doesn't even give him prior warning about earthquakes, Hurricanes, volcanoes etc. He must either be a bastard or doesn't exist ... oh wait...

EDIT: Guess he must just be crackers!

Other Comments by Vaal

6. Comment #208815 by black wolf on July 11, 2008 at 9:23 am

The amount of money they receive from offerings and declaring that proof of their 'un-richness' is just obfuscation. Remember that its not only the Vatican, but each country's Catholic Church that receives money individually. For example, the German Catholic Church received an income of 4.16 BILLION Euros in 2004 from church tax (of which 20% or less were actually spent on charity and education, and additionally subsidized by federal and state governments). Pointing to a loss of a handful of millions of additional donations is ridiculous in comparison.

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7. Comment #208819 by HourglassMemory on July 11, 2008 at 9:28 am

Now all we have to wait for is for them to just pray, and the Vatican will become part of History.

I also find it very odd that the Vatican, having the amount of money it has, makes news out of this.

It's like being a big sand dune and you make a big fuss of one single sediment being blown away by the wind.

Other Comments by HourglassMemory

8. Comment #208828 by Stephen Maxwell on July 11, 2008 at 9:34 am

Also, I'd be interested to know how much of the â‚¬245.8m outgoings are for paying off families of childrape victims and setting up the priests in other parts of the world.

Other Comments by Stephen Maxwell

9. Comment #208830 by Burt Likko on July 11, 2008 at 9:37 am

Don't shed a tear for impoverished Catholic clerics. They're doing quite fine despite this worrisome news. I'm certain I'm not the only recovering Catholic here, and the financial structure of the Catholic church is no secret from anyone who cares to investigate it.

Each dioscese within the church is functionally independent of the others, particularly in terms of financial support. At least in the US, that's where the real estate comes in. Here in southern California, the Archdioscese of Los Angeles is one of the largest residential landowners in the region, and the bulk of its residential holdings are apartments and trailer parks that offer low-income housing to renters. Unsurprisingly, this generates a large amount of income and because it's the church and all, no one wants to call Cardinal Mahoney a "slumlord."

I would be not surprised at all if similar situations prevailed in other parts of the US and elsewhere in the world. And this doesn't count the other kinds of state support the church receives -- either the direct payments or state-run tithes that prevail in European countries, or in the form of very generous tax breaks and other indirect subsidies that happen even here in the US. So the Vatican may not have realized a profit in 2007, but the Vatican isn't the entire Catholic Church, just its glittering and storied headquarters. The Catholic Church as a whole (or in its several parts) may well still be profitable.

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10. Comment #208832 by hungarianelephant on July 11, 2008 at 9:39 am

So, dividing those figures (BBC website, as spotted by Sally Luxmoore) by the Catholic populations (http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/country/sc1.html), donations to the Vatican per Catholic are:

Ireland - $0.53
USA - $0.29
South Korea - $0.25
Germany - $0.15
Italy - $0.15
Spain - $0.07
France - $0.05
Brazil - $0.01

Hmm.

Possible conclusions to be drawn from this:

(1) "Christians are generous" is a load of balls.
(2) Catholics don't like giving money to the Vatican.
(3) Most Catholics don't actually believe a word of it.
(4) Someone is telling a few porkies about the numbers.

Any other hypotheses?

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11. Comment #208833 by rod-the-farmer on July 11, 2008 at 9:40 am

Hah. Here is a related question which interest me. With all the talk about a schism in the Anglican Church, how much do you want to bet that it is the 'western' churches who contribute the most to the coffers of 'HQ'. And if the conservative branches split away, (I believe they are heavily biased towards African congregations, at least in numbers of believers) they will certainly get to keep their own donations. But will those be enough, (coming as they may well do, from third world countries) to maintain the standard the highest officials became used to, under the combined umbrella of Anglicanism ? Hmm. Food for thought.

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12. Comment #208835 by Styrer- on July 11, 2008 at 9:42 am

Its latest accounts show that the Vatican made 236.7m euros in 2007 compared with outgoings of 245.8m euros.

Hang on, people - they made a loss, apparently.

So, no profits, then. Suddenly the Vatican is poor. No taxable income, even if they were not already exempt.

Corporation Tax: Zero.

It is simply unable to afford on-going payouts of compensation for Religiously Conducted kiddy-fidling.

Please be sensitive to the Papacy in its time of need.

We must all pull together and contribute.

I invite Irate_Atheist to mark the opening of the proceedings with his own choice of contribution.

I'm beginning to feel all warm and fuzzy.

Best,
Styrer

Other Comments by Styrer-

13. Comment #208837 by flobear on July 11, 2008 at 9:43 am

Well I guess there's some good news about the falling US economy. On the other hand, this is partly due to the increase in the price of oil. Probably the money is simply diverted from the Vatican to Saudi Arabia.

If the choice is between (a) people that get really really angry and complain a lot about stolen crackers or (b) people that murder Dutch film directors and suicide bomb discos I'm going with option (a).

edit: not there's an actual choice to be made but still...

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14. Comment #208839 by Logicel on July 11, 2008 at 9:43 am

Gosh, what a shock, the Catholic Church is not telling the whole truth while it is pretending that it is?

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15. Comment #208845 by Lithium_joe on July 11, 2008 at 9:50 am

Funny thing speed reading.

I read that headline as 'Weak Us dollar hits Paypal pockets'

:-/

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16. Comment #208846 by black wolf on July 11, 2008 at 9:51 am

Poor, poor clerics.
Average priest/pastor income per month in Germany (2004):
EUR 4,500.
Bishops and Arch-Bishops: EUR 9,000-12,000. <- these usually paid by the government, not the church, in full.

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17. Comment #208851 by pwuk on July 11, 2008 at 9:55 am

Prophet and loss ?

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18. Comment #208858 by Peacebeuponme on July 11, 2008 at 10:15 am

Is it possible to get hold of the full financial statements of the Holy See anywhere? All they have on the website is a rather uninformative communique.

I would be interested to see a breakdown of their assets and liabilities, as well as details of their salary payments.

Interesting to note that, despite the negativity of this article, they still made a â‚¬36.5 million property gain, and profited overall from their financial dealings.

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme

19. Comment #208862 by alexmzk on July 11, 2008 at 10:22 am

phew, looks like the Vatican was only just saved from the cardinal sin of Obscene Wealth (tm). close shave!

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20. Comment #208878 by Raiko on July 11, 2008 at 10:47 am

By the Vatican's standards, my family is very, very, very poor.

... never mind the three houses, of course.

Other Comments by Raiko

21. Comment #208899 by mordacious1 on July 11, 2008 at 11:06 am

Crap, this must mean my stock holdings in Pope.inc have gone down. Better go check the DOW. NYSE id= cathchBS

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22. Comment #208901 by liberalartist on July 11, 2008 at 11:12 am

Maybe this will leave them less money to spread their not-so-good "news". I want to be happy that the Vatican showed a loss this year, but I am skeptical of their motives to share this information with the world. I just don't trust them.

Other Comments by liberalartist

23. Comment #208904 by 35bluejacket on July 11, 2008 at 11:14 am

With the market crash today, conspiracy theories of martial and suspending the election here in the US, I bet the xians are packing their bags.

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24. Comment #208915 by 35bluejacket on July 11, 2008 at 11:30 am

Sorry I didn't proof read.... that was martial law, and oh yes, the new war too. :) beam us up Gabriel!!!

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25. Comment #208932 by Ian Bamlett on July 11, 2008 at 12:04 pm

They could easily make up that 9.1 m euro loss by selling off a couple of those old paintings they have stashed under the vatican.

Stolen art from all over Europe those bastards - only Hitler did better but he never got to keep it.

Other Comments by Ian Bamlett

26. Comment #208959 by Jesus was a zombie on July 11, 2008 at 12:48 pm

The catholic church has 9.1 million euros less in its back pocket this year? Surely God could have messed with the exchange rate if they had prayed hard enough? Reminds me of the Fry and Laurie sketch
"Oh Lord,you've seen the figures. Show us a way to streamline some kind of managment structure which will enable 4-5% growth during the next financial 12 month.
Amen"

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27. Comment #208963 by HolyRusk on July 11, 2008 at 12:54 pm

245.8m euros (nearly $400m) doesn't account for the $615m the Roman Church had to pay last year for benign misconducts of its irreproachable spiritual leaders (http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5j6QBsiOxWE0UNGHw401JiPQ2vwlw ). Is it coming from another holy pocket or are we witnessing a miracle?

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28. Comment #209102 by Border Collie on July 11, 2008 at 3:15 pm

Oh, my, what IS a Pope to do?

Well, actually, for those numbers, I'd wear a little red pope suit and do all sorts of gesturing and babbling Latin.

Other Comments by Border Collie

29. Comment #209124 by Colwyn Abernathy on July 11, 2008 at 3:42 pm

The Vatican made a loss last year as the weaker dollar reduced the value of donations from the faithful in the United States.

Dood...MADE A LOSS? Wait...dinnae Palpatine reinstate the practice of indulgences? Religion as a corporation...the devil would be proud...or Pacino, depending on what movie you watch.

Other Comments by Colwyn Abernathy

30. Comment #209159 by 8teist on July 11, 2008 at 4:49 pm

What deluded fucktard donated $14.3m to this pack of morons.
For $14 m he must get first shot at the altar boys, before god and the pope.

Other Comments by 8teist

31. Comment #209172 by Hobbit on July 11, 2008 at 6:03 pm

Let's not forget the AUD$130 M that the NSW government is kicking in for World Youth Indoctrination Week!

What a pack of lying fucks.

Other Comments by Hobbit

32. Comment #209179 by Yedgy on July 11, 2008 at 7:19 pm

OK, so that's their "prophet and loss" statement. Let's see that balance sheet, Ratzo!

I guess I know now where all the Enron accountants have gone!

Other Comments by Yedgy

33. Comment #209194 by Roland_F on July 11, 2008 at 8:00 pm

6. Comment #208815 by black wolf : the German Catholic Church received an income of 4.16 BILLION Euros in 2004 from church tax (of which 20% or less were actually spent on charity and education, and additionally subsidized by federal and state governments).

Do you have any source of this number e.g. a www link ?
When I remember right some Spiegel story several years back the Catholic or Evangelical charity actions are mainly funded from donations of church attendants, the amount used from the church tax income for charity is between 2-4 % only -- so where is the 20% coming from ? Also the preservation and renovation of churches is subsidized from Government money. And all kindergartens, hospitals etc. are anyway payable services.
I had a discussion with a colleague long ago, who never quit his church tax payments in the wrong understanding that church tax money is going into charity to reduce suffering in the 'third world' not knowing the true figure. And even the tiny 2-4% is used for missionary Mother Theresa like work and money spend for Bibles not for medicine.

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34. Comment #209208 by King of NH on July 11, 2008 at 9:22 pm

Wow. Looks like even the imaginary friend market is suffering. Any market reports from the competition yet? I hear Muhammad is still popular, though exports are down. Maybe Shiva the Destroyer could hire Dick Cheney as their spokesperson? I know Hinduism has long been a strictly local producer, but the imaginary friend market is sure to rebound and may have a void or two. I'm still investing my money in Ninsun. She's an older IF producer, but has a proven resilience.

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35. Comment #209243 by j s bach on July 12, 2008 at 1:06 am

A single donation of $14.3?

"A fool and his money are easily parted."

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36. Comment #209443 by Mitchell Gilks on July 12, 2008 at 8:42 am

My heart bleeds...

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37. Comment #209455 by 9th on July 12, 2008 at 10:18 am

You people are so heartless!

Money troubles are no laughing matter. No wonder Mr. Donohue was so upset about a kidnapped wafer!

I say we each send the vatican a box of crackers in the name of PZ Myers!

Other Comments by 9th

38. Comment #209519 by D'Arcy on July 12, 2008 at 1:49 pm

10 Hail Marys and the stock market will be forgiven.

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39. Comment #209526 by BW022 on July 12, 2008 at 2:17 pm

Ok... some of the numbers got me thinking.

One quarter of under $80 million came from the US. That is about $20 million. About 24% of Americans are Roman Catholic. The United States has about 300 million people, so 72 million Roman Catholics in the US, or say 15 million families (since they obviously include children in their numbers).

So, each RC adult gives something like 67 cents towards the Vatican each year?

Other Comments by BW022

40. Comment #209528 by 8teist on July 12, 2008 at 2:25 pm

67c not bad for everlasting life ,still who would want to be stuck in heaven with a bunch of sniveling christian assholes for eternity?
One mans heaven is another mans hell.

Yet it is cheap afterlife insurance,do you get free afterrapture emails with that?

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41. Comment #209574 by AdrianT on July 12, 2008 at 4:35 pm