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France rejects Muslim woman over radical practice of Islam
by Guardian
Thanks to Linda Ward Selbie for the link.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/12/france.islam
France rejects Muslim woman over radical practice of Islam
· Expert says Moroccan lives 'almost as a recluse'
· Case reopens debate about freedom of religion
France has denied citizenship to a Moroccan woman who wears a burqa on the grounds that her "radical" practice of Islam is incompatible with basic French values such as equality of the sexes.
The case yesterday reopened the debate about Islam in France, and how the secular republic reconciles itself with the freedom of religion guaranteed by the French constitution.
The woman, known as Faiza M, is 32, married to a French national and lives east of Paris. She has lived in France since 2000, speaks good French and has three children born in France. Social services reports said she lived in "total submission" to her husband. Her application for French nationality was rejected in 2005 on the grounds of "insufficient assimilation" into France. She appealed, invoking the French constitutional right to religious freedom and saying that she had never sought to challenge the fundamental values of France. But last month the Council of State, France's highest administrative body, upheld the ruling.
"She has adopted a radical practice of her religion, incompatible with essential values of the French community, particularly the principle of equality of the sexes," it said.
"Is the burqa incompatible with French citizenship?" asked Le Monde, which broke the story. The paper said it was the first time the level of a person's personal religious practice had been used to rule on their capacity be to assimilated into France.
The legal expert who reported to the Council of State said the woman's interviews with social services revealed that "she lives almost as a recluse, isolated from French society".
The report said: "She has no idea about the secular state or the right to vote. She lives in total submission to her male relatives. She seems to find this normal and the idea of challenging it has never crossed her mind."
The woman had said she was not veiled when she lived in Morocco and had worn the burqa since arriving in France at the request of her husband. She said she wore it more from habit than conviction.
Daniele Lochak, a law professor not involved in the case, said it was bizarre to consider that excessive submission to men was a reason not to grant citizenship. "If you follow that to its logical conclusion, it means that women whose partners beat them are also not worthy of being French," he told Le Monde.
Jean-Pierre Dubois, head of France's Human Rights League, said he was "vigilant" and was seeking more information.
France is home to nearly 5 million Muslims, roughly half of whom are French citizens. Criteria taken into account for granting French citizenship includes "assimilation", which normally focuses on how well the candidate speaks French. In the past nationality was denied to Muslims who were known to have links with extremists or who had publicly advocated radicalism, but that was not the case of Faiza M.
The ruling comes weeks after a controversy prompted by a court annulment of the marriage of two Muslims because the husband said the wife was not a virgin as she had claimed to be.
France's ban on headscarves and other religious symbols in state schools in 2004 sparked a heated debate over freedom and equality within the secular republic. The French government adheres to the theory that all French citizens are equal before the republic, and religion or ethnic background are matters for the private sphere. In practice, rights groups say, society is plagued by discrimination.
The president, Nicolas Sarkozy, has stressed the importance of "integration" into French life. Part of his heightened controls on immigrants is a new law to make foreigners who want to join their families sit an exam on French language and values before leaving their countries.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/12/france.islam
France rejects Muslim woman over radical practice of Islam
· Expert says Moroccan lives 'almost as a recluse'
· Case reopens debate about freedom of religion
France has denied citizenship to a Moroccan woman who wears a burqa on the grounds that her "radical" practice of Islam is incompatible with basic French values such as equality of the sexes.
The case yesterday reopened the debate about Islam in France, and how the secular republic reconciles itself with the freedom of religion guaranteed by the French constitution.
The woman, known as Faiza M, is 32, married to a French national and lives east of Paris. She has lived in France since 2000, speaks good French and has three children born in France. Social services reports said she lived in "total submission" to her husband. Her application for French nationality was rejected in 2005 on the grounds of "insufficient assimilation" into France. She appealed, invoking the French constitutional right to religious freedom and saying that she had never sought to challenge the fundamental values of France. But last month the Council of State, France's highest administrative body, upheld the ruling.
"She has adopted a radical practice of her religion, incompatible with essential values of the French community, particularly the principle of equality of the sexes," it said.
"Is the burqa incompatible with French citizenship?" asked Le Monde, which broke the story. The paper said it was the first time the level of a person's personal religious practice had been used to rule on their capacity be to assimilated into France.
The legal expert who reported to the Council of State said the woman's interviews with social services revealed that "she lives almost as a recluse, isolated from French society".
The report said: "She has no idea about the secular state or the right to vote. She lives in total submission to her male relatives. She seems to find this normal and the idea of challenging it has never crossed her mind."
The woman had said she was not veiled when she lived in Morocco and had worn the burqa since arriving in France at the request of her husband. She said she wore it more from habit than conviction.
Daniele Lochak, a law professor not involved in the case, said it was bizarre to consider that excessive submission to men was a reason not to grant citizenship. "If you follow that to its logical conclusion, it means that women whose partners beat them are also not worthy of being French," he told Le Monde.
Jean-Pierre Dubois, head of France's Human Rights League, said he was "vigilant" and was seeking more information.
France is home to nearly 5 million Muslims, roughly half of whom are French citizens. Criteria taken into account for granting French citizenship includes "assimilation", which normally focuses on how well the candidate speaks French. In the past nationality was denied to Muslims who were known to have links with extremists or who had publicly advocated radicalism, but that was not the case of Faiza M.
The ruling comes weeks after a controversy prompted by a court annulment of the marriage of two Muslims because the husband said the wife was not a virgin as she had claimed to be.
France's ban on headscarves and other religious symbols in state schools in 2004 sparked a heated debate over freedom and equality within the secular republic. The French government adheres to the theory that all French citizens are equal before the republic, and religion or ethnic background are matters for the private sphere. In practice, rights groups say, society is plagued by discrimination.
The president, Nicolas Sarkozy, has stressed the importance of "integration" into French life. Part of his heightened controls on immigrants is a new law to make foreigners who want to join their families sit an exam on French language and values before leaving their countries.
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Posted: Saturday, July 12, 2008 | PermalinkComments 1 - 50 of 86 |
Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers2. Comment #209487 by Nova on July 12, 2008 at 12:19 pm
France may not be dealing with Muslims perfectly, but it way outstrips Britain in that regard.Other Comments by Nova
3. Comment #209488 by Cartomancer on July 12, 2008 at 12:24 pm
What puzzles me is why someone who is such a recluse, and so apathetic about political participation in the state, would be so motivated to pursue a legal case to these ends? Surely the mere fact of pressing so hard that the case reaches the highest authority in the land indicates some significant ability to manipulate state institutions for one's benefit?
Is her husband orchestrating all this for his own ends?
Sounds like we're getting a decidedly incomplete picture here.
Other Comments by Cartomancer
4. Comment #209491 by Bonzai on July 12, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Must they deny her citizenship on such flimsy ground?Even though I despise the burqua and her "total submission" to her husband, as I hope many modern women would, it doesn't sound right to deny her citizenship on the grounds of reactionary attitude, masochism and bad fashion sense,--well but this is France. It is not like she was caught advocating Sharia or Jihad.
If, as the report says that she is a recluse who has no knowledge of the secular state and the right to vote, then I would expect her to naturally fail the citizenship test. I assume that an immigrant does have to write some test in France to become a citizen, or am I wrong?
Other Comments by Bonzai
5. Comment #209492 by mordacious1 on July 12, 2008 at 12:31 pm
I think this is a bit reactionary, are they going to toss out the husband? It's his views on women that is at least half the problem. They should toss the kids out too, can't have them spreading their evil ideas.Other Comments by mordacious1
6. Comment #209495 by Bonzai on July 12, 2008 at 12:39 pm
mordacious1,I don't think she will be 'tossed out'. If France's immigration system is like North America, she would still a landed immigrant. She can still work or go to school, buy a home etc,--though I am not sure if any of these would interest her. But she wouldn't be able to vote or get a French passport. I think she can always apply again.
Other Comments by Bonzai
7. Comment #209497 by Jiten on July 12, 2008 at 12:41 pm
She has adopted a radical practice of her religion, incompatible with essential values of the French community, particularly the principle of equality of the sexes,But then so have many others. Are they now going to be deported too? And what about being in total submission to her husband? So are those who live in fear of their violent husbands. This case is very odd.
Other Comments by Jiten
8. Comment #209500 by mordacious1 on July 12, 2008 at 12:45 pm
BonzaiSo she remains in France, unable to vote, while her husband who is probably a real a-hole, gets to vote. Doesn't make much sense.
Other Comments by mordacious1
9. Comment #209502 by History_Junky on July 12, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Id have to say that both the woman and her husband are unfortunately the product of a male dominated culture. You can easily blame the husband for making his wife submissive to him, but it becomes a little more tricky when you realize that the husband is the product of a specific culture just as the woman is. Of course at the end of the day Id rather have her receive citizenship and educated about her rights and have her husband and male relatives thrown out.
Other Comments by History_Junky
10. Comment #209503 by phil rimmer on July 12, 2008 at 12:57 pm
CartomancerIs her husband orchestrating all this for his own ends?
Yep. (Just a guess)
Is the Council of State's response an acknowledgment of this fact? Their complaint is squarely directed at his behaviour, not his wife's. Do his children lose any rights because of this?
Anybody?
Other Comments by phil rimmer
11. Comment #209504 by rod-the-farmer on July 12, 2008 at 1:00 pm
I wonder how many other countries have some sort of similar litmus test for becoming a citizen ? In Canada I think you have to pass a questionnaire about Canadian history, current events and such. I imagine you just go back to being a landed immigrant if you fail. I doubt ANY country would deport those who failed. I expect you can try again, like for a driving licence. I bet there are other things she cannot do, like run for office, get a job working for the government, etc.In any case, the ruling has my support. The English areas of Canada have many people who came here as immigrants decades ago, but who still cannot (apparently) speak English, because they immersed themselves in cultural ghettos where they had no need to speak English. But it IS interesting that she (a) can speak French fluently, and (b) only began wearing the burka AFTER she came to France.
Other Comments by rod-the-farmer
12. Comment #209505 by SRWB on July 12, 2008 at 1:02 pm
As always, the crux of the issue is whether she has adopted the trappings of this culture voluntarily or has been coerced by her husband or others, i.e. family or friends in her wider social circle. If she truly believes in this way of life, why should anyone care, as long as she does so as a result of her convictions and not due to external pressure.This aspect needs to be researched. Until the reasons are clear it's premature for France to deny citizenship.
Other Comments by SRWB
13. Comment #209508 by Bonzai on July 12, 2008 at 1:11 pm
PhilTheir complaint is squarely directed at his behaviour, not his wife's. Do his children lose any rights because of this?
Well the article says that he is a French national, and since the children were born in France, I think they are as well. It seems that they are using her to make a point since nothing can be done to her husband. By the look of it I don't think she is a "radical" Muslim, chances are she is a village girl who was brought up to be meek and submissive to her men folks.
Other Comments by Bonzai
14. Comment #209509 by 8teist on July 12, 2008 at 1:15 pm
No doubt a claim for financial compensation will be the next step in this circus.Interestingly she did`nt feel the need to wear the burqa in her native land of Morocco but now it`s important to wear it in France .
The French surrender monkeys will back down on this ,no doubt, she has the right to exercise her right to be an idiot.
It seems to be a feeble attempt to inflame outrage as per usual on a slow news day.
Other Comments by 8teist
15. Comment #209510 by Bonzai on July 12, 2008 at 1:17 pm
RodThe English areas of Canada have many people who came here as immigrants decades ago, but who still cannot (apparently) speak English, because they immersed themselves in cultural ghettos where they had no need to speak English.
I think that is mostly older people, many of whom come via family reunification and are exempted from English (or French) test. I don't have a big problem with that.I think the ghetto phenomenon is overstated. Hey, our former Prime Minister's English is atrocious, and from those who know French, he is not that great in his native French either. I am talking about big Jean. :)
Other Comments by Bonzai
16. Comment #209511 by Bonzai on July 12, 2008 at 1:18 pm
Interestingly she did`nt feel the need to wear the burqa in her native land of Morocco but now it`s important to wear it in France .
That is interesting. I was just scanning the article, I missed that.
Other Comments by Bonzai
17. Comment #209514 by noamzur on July 12, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Daniele Lochak, a law professor not involved in the case, said it was bizarre to consider that excessive submission to men was a reason not to grant citizenship. "If you follow that to its logical conclusion, it means that women whose partners beat them are also not worthy of being French," he told Le Monde.
Actually it means that their husbands aren't worthy of being a part of the human race and should not vote or procreate... But 82abhilash's point is also in order
Other Comments by noamzur
18. Comment #209516 by mordacious1 on July 12, 2008 at 1:42 pm
I just know that if I felt like wearing a burka (drag, I suppose), I'd do it. Fuck what anyone else thinks. You have a government restricting what one can wear. That is stupid. How does this change ideas, if anything it would, I think, make people want to wear the damn things more.Other Comments by mordacious1
20. Comment #209520 by robotaholic on July 12, 2008 at 1:53 pm
I'd hospitably invite her over to eat pepperoni pizza! Other Comments by robotaholic
21. Comment #209521 by phil rimmer on July 12, 2008 at 1:55 pm
Bonzai.Thanks. I suspect, on reflection, you are correct.
It is still quite a smack in the teeth to have it implied that your wife, because of your own actions, is too sub-standard to be a French women.
Substandard how?
She has no idea about the secular state or the right to vote.
How can she fulfill her duties as a citizen? Her rights (such as her husband allows, that is) come with obligations. Her ignorance of these obligations must be repaired, before those concomitant rights are conferred.
Other Comments by phil rimmer
22. Comment #209524 by Bonzai on July 12, 2008 at 2:11 pm
This article may provide a general background to what goes on in the France's Muslim immigrant ghettos and may give some insight to this woman's situation.http://www.time.com/time/europe/hero2004/amura.html
The feminist group featured in this article supports the decision to deny her French citizenship.
activist group Ni Putes Ni Soumises (Neither Whores Nor Submissive) that champions secular and feminist causes said it was "relieved" by the ruling. "The Republic can in no manner validate this kind of tool of oppression and submission of women," a communique by the group said-referring to what it has called the "green fascism" of misogyny practiced in many of France's blighted suburban housing projects under the cover of Islamic fundamentalism or Arab cultural machismo.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1822189,00.html
Other Comments by Bonzai
23. Comment #209525 by D'Arcy on July 12, 2008 at 2:12 pm
The women's lib organisations used to have the slogan "ban the bra". When will muslem women start shouting the slogan "ban the burqua"? Other Comments by D'Arcy
24. Comment #209527 by ergaster on July 12, 2008 at 2:22 pm
"France is home to nearly 5 million Muslims..."
If she appeals long enough the Sharia will kick in. Then she will have the god-given right to be the cattle that she is fighting to be.
Other Comments by ergaster
25. Comment #209533 by mordacious1 on July 12, 2008 at 2:31 pm
D'Arcy"ban the bra"
Except in Ireland, where it was "Erin go braless"
Other Comments by mordacious1
26. Comment #209536 by Dinah on July 12, 2008 at 2:41 pm
I have to say I think this is the right decision, if only because of the message it sends out that anyone else who refuses to integrate into his or her host country may be denied citizenship, and I think the UK would do well to take note of it. Too many problems have arisen in Europe from immigrants and their descendents who cannot speak the language of the host country, live totally separate lives and who reject Western culture and values. The classic reaction from liberal apologists is either 'their culture is of equal value' or 'it's because of racist attitudes'. While there may be a certain amount of truth in the second statement, there have been enormous strides in recent years to try to combat racism, and to increase opportunities to those from different cultures. The indigenous population cannot be held entirely responsible for the ghettoisation of certain groups within their societies - part of it at least has been caused by the determination of some within those groups to hold on to a way of life and customs quite alien to modern democratic societies, as well as the disastrous policy of multi-culturalism which has encouraged and celebrated difference and separation rather than promoting integration.Other Comments by Dinah
27. Comment #209540 by mark8 on July 12, 2008 at 2:49 pm
rod-the-farmer
We have a citizenship test here in the U.K. Alas they find way's around even that.
" Foreign nationals are being helped to claim British citizenship by cheating in citizenship tests. A BBC undercover reporter filmed a language school giving the candidates answers to an English test in advance."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7330338.stm
Other Comments by mark8
28. Comment #209549 by ukvillafan on July 12, 2008 at 3:11 pm
This is straightforward.
The husband is a French national so he cannot lose his citizenship because of his religious views.
His wife is not a French National but will, presumably, have a right of residence in the country because of her marriage. That does not make her a French citizen. The children will be French citizens because of their father.
The French are perfectly entitled to uphold the secular basis of their nation in this way if they wish. This is a test for citizenship for foreign nationals (edit) and I see perfectly why they would not want to give citizenship rights to those who cannot live up to secular ideals. OK, so it doesn't allow her to vote but it does not stop her practising her religion. She is not being discriminated against because of her gender or her faith but because she does not fully accept the secular nature of the country she has chosen to move to sufficiently well to properly integrate. I say three cheers for thr French!
They are very clear on the separation of chuech and state and the secular nature of their country. Those of you who are quick to rubbish the country should look to your own before being so disrespectful of a nation that achived a degree of sophistication whilst some of you lot were still murdering "savages"!
Other Comments by ukvillafan
29. Comment #209553 by Tenochtitlan on July 12, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Holy shit, I don't get it, France is basically kicking her out to Morocco? How is this supposed to help her leave her idiotic religious beliefs? And what was she doing that in any way threatened France or reduced her qualifications for citizenship? I mean, it's not as if there are no French citizens that are complete idiots when it comes to voting, or that at least some women in France sadly do live in complete submission to their husband. The woman speaks good French and has kids for Pete's sake!Sad, I'd have thought that living in a liberal, secular democracy would have been the best shot at at least moderating her craziness, but it's not to be I guess.
Other Comments by Tenochtitlan
30. Comment #209556 by Nairb on July 12, 2008 at 3:26 pm
8teist
Referring to french as "surrender monkeys" I suppose is intended to mean that the French tend to roll over in face of any regression.
Have you read french history? Have you heard of the french revolution and follow on effect on europe? Have you heard of the commune? Have you noticed the way french society defends its "acquis"?
The facts dont fit your insulting and ignorant term.
Other Comments by Nairb
31. Comment #209557 by 8teist on July 12, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Don`t think she`s getting deported T ,just not getting citizenship `til she bucks her ideas up. Other Comments by 8teist
32. Comment #209559 by phil rimmer on July 12, 2008 at 3:30 pm
TechnochtitlanI don't get it, France is basically kicking her out to Morocco?
No, probably not. But she will lose rights.
This is in the hands of her husband to fix. The ball has been hit into his court.
Other Comments by phil rimmer
33. Comment #209565 by Nairb on July 12, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Ergaster
5 million muslims is around 8% of the population. It would take along time indeed for this 8% to become a majority.
Also where I live 30 to 40% are muslims. There is no sharia and no muslim specific party or even agenda.
Though immigrants tend to have more children, 2nd generation immigrants have more or less the same , ie there is an alignement over time in behaviour.
Even in the worst possible projections people of muslim origin are not likely to have a majority before 2100. Such "worst case" projections are highly unlikely.
Other Comments by Nairb
34. Comment #209569 by ukvillafan on July 12, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Look, she will not be deported, OK? Nor will she "lose" any rights because she never had the rights attached to being a French citizen in the first place.
Calling a nation "surrender monkeys" is a racist slur and not in keeping with the rationalism that underpins this site. I suggest you give it a rest and look up the exploits of the French resistance movement during the world wars.
I have no idea how many NZ soldiers died during these conflicts but I would guess that more French nationals died than NZ.
If the US government could adopt such a strong defense of its secular traditions, it would benefit greatly!
Other Comments by ukvillafan
35. Comment #209570 by Nairb on July 12, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Whether this is perfectly fair to the individual is impossible to know.
However I think this is excellent ruling for society.
If we are to maintain and extend a secular state then we need to agressively make this happen. If this infringes on dress code so be it.
This is a message to the muslim and any other religous community that the secular state will not tolerate blatant symbols of inequality ( eg the burqa).
Also it prevents the easy introduction of peasant girls from muslim countries to marriages with religous extremists in France. No bad thing in itself.
Other Comments by Nairb
36. Comment #209572 by Akheloios on July 12, 2008 at 4:30 pm
The woman should be taken into care and given proper education on what it means to be a full member of the human race.It's a question secular societies like ours or the French have to ask. How do we escape the patriarchal cultures of the past and have proper equality for everyone.
Meh, it's stories like this that make me worry sometimes. Even after the 300 years of hard won improvement we've had since the Enlightenment it seems we still have a long way to go.
As for the whole 'cheese eating surrender monkeys' I'm a bit sick of it to be honest. The US haven't liked the French for a long time though they like to forget that without the French their war of independence would have been lost and the US would have continued to be a part of the British Empire. It just smacks of ingratitude to me.
Other Comments by Akheloios
37. Comment #209573 by Luthien on July 12, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Except in Ireland, where it was "Erin go braless"
ROFL, that just made my day :D
Other Comments by Luthien
38. Comment #209576 by 8teist on July 12, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Nairb,You are quite right ,please accept my apologies for my feeble attempt at humour, it was intended more a poke at political bureaucrats than the French people.
Can I blame in my defense,a delayed reaction to the All Blacks defeat by the Tricolurs at the 2007 world Cup.
Once again my apologies. 8teist. :)
Other Comments by 8teist
39. Comment #209579 by ukvillafan on July 12, 2008 at 4:59 pm
8teist
No, you cannot blame your country's defeat by the French at Rugby!!! That was way too long ago.
Never mind - you may get the chance to win it for the first time since 1987 when it returns to your shores in 2011 - only a gap of 24 years.
Other Comments by ukvillafan
40. Comment #209581 by 8teist on July 12, 2008 at 5:03 pm
uk v , yes and this time we`ll have our own referees. ;o Other Comments by 8teist
41. Comment #209582 by Nairb on July 12, 2008 at 5:14 pm
8teist
no problem
The french army is a bit like the national team. Occasional brilliance with some spectacular meltdowns but rarely dull! :)
Other Comments by Nairb
42. Comment #209583 by ukvillafan on July 12, 2008 at 5:15 pm
you'll need them!! Other Comments by ukvillafan
43. Comment #209584 by ukvillafan on July 12, 2008 at 5:17 pm
and stop sticking your tongue out at me 8teist - it's not in the least bit intimidating!!
lol
Other Comments by ukvillafan
44. Comment #209586 by Kubenzi on July 12, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Maybe i missed a comment above that touched on this but i think most of you have skipped over the most important part of the article(or at least the one i had already read about this yesterday,i havnt clicked this link)A social worker ruled that this woman was and would be basically "reclusive" and would have no beneficial impact on French Society.This is a pretty straight-forward ruling in my opinion,and entirely justified by any country willing to at least provide a "chance" to those who would like to become members of their society
Other Comments by Kubenzi
45. Comment #209587 by Teratornis on July 12, 2008 at 5:21 pm
Comment #209572 by Akheloios:
As for the whole 'cheese eating surrender monkeys' I'm a bit sick of it to be honest. The US haven't liked the French for a long time
Come on, that's so 2003, before Americans learned the hard way that the French were right all along on Iraq.
The U.S. and France have enjoyed generally friendly commercial, cultural, scientific, and military relations for the better part of the past two centuries.
If the neocons get voted out this November, President Obama should patch things right up with our French friends.
though they like to forget that without the French their war of independence would have been lost and the US would have continued to be a part of the British Empire. It just smacks of ingratitude to me.
Not to mention that shortly after France enabled the U.S. to exist by bankrupting itself on our behalf, the young U.S. nearly doubled its size by buying the vast Louisiana Territory from France for a pittance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Purchase
Other Comments by Teratornis
46. Comment #209589 by mordacious1 on July 12, 2008 at 5:33 pm
I'm a bit reclusive myself, guess I can't emmigrate to France.Oh, and I don't like the argument that such and such country had more people die in this or that war. The idea is NOT to die, but to kill the other guy. Poor way to judge one's contribution if you ask me.
Other Comments by mordacious1
47. Comment #209590 by hawt4dawk on July 12, 2008 at 5:37 pm
My first reaction was that "it is the poor Muslim woman getting oppressed again." But with further thought, I support the decision. I think seemingly goodhearted multi-cultural policies often end up being too divisive in practice. Out of respect for our biological leanings toward in-group/out-group orientations, integration efforts really should be more strongly encouraged everywhere. I agree with Dinah's comment.
As for American feelings or attitude toward the French, I am happy to report that many Americans I know still respect and admire the French and remember our long history as allies. We like to tease about them though and they like to look down at us... like you all do. (Was it an American who said that or a Kiwi? I'm confused. :p )
Other Comments by hawt4dawk
48. Comment #209600 by lastgreekstanding on July 12, 2008 at 6:33 pm
rod-the-farmer---In any case, the ruling has my support. The English areas of Canada have many people who came here as immigrants decades ago, but who still cannot (apparently) speak English, because they immersed themselves in cultural ghettos where they had no need to speak English.
Do you speak French?
hawt4dawk---As for American feelings or attitude toward the French, I am happy to report that many Americans I know still respect and admire the French and remember our long history as allies.
They better. Without the huge help of France, the American Revolution would have failed.
French fries, anyone?
edit
Other Comments by lastgreekstanding
49. Comment #209609 by Village_Idiot on July 12, 2008 at 7:30 pm
Viva La France!!! The whole family should be sent to Mekkah so that they can FULLY exercise their religious FREEDOM there!Will the rest of the western world learn from this? I hope so!!!
Other Comments by Village_Idiot
50. Comment #209612 by Lightnin on July 12, 2008 at 7:50 pm
No, you cannot blame your country's defeat by the French at Rugby!!!
Haha, I can't stand the prolate spheroid-shaped ball game, yet even I jumped on the ridiculous "England are a bunch of cheaters, off with Jonny Wilkinson's head" bandwagon after the 2003 world cup.
I will admit though, I probably spent more time changing the channel over to SBS to watch Iron Chef while the final was on.
Other Comments by Lightnin
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1. Comment #209482 by 82abhilash on July 12, 2008 at 12:03 pm
No, the reason for not granting citizenship is the lack of knowledge about the secular values of the country you want to be a citizen of.
Other Comments by 82abhilash