Sunday, July 13, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version

Lourdes fears priestly scandal will make profits dry up

by Guardian

Thanks to Linda Ward Selbie for the link.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/13/catholicism.france

Lourdes fears priestly scandal will make profits dry up

It is called the 'Zambelli Affair' and for the town of Lourdes, one of the world's most famous sites of pilgrimage, it could not have come at a worse time. Last week it was disclosed that Fr Raymond Zambelli, the priest in charge of the sanctuaries of Lourdes, was being investigated by financial police after a computer highlighted suspicious deposits in his personal account, amounting to £360,000. Rumours of money-laundering were soon rife and, since then, the town has waited anxiously for the next dramatic twist.

Zambelli, at a hastily called press conference, denied all wrongdoing and explained that the cash was a donation from an ageing worshipper. But though he has been backed by the Bishop of Tarbes, Jacques Perrier, the damage has been done.

'What every one fears is that the image of Lourdes will be tarnished,' Francis Dehaine, who manages the Lourdes sanctuary and its £23m annual budget, said. 'Nobody ever thought something like this could happen. And it's the image of the shrine that suffers.'

Lourdes is in the spotlight like never before. It is the 150th anniversary of the apparition of the virgin Mary to Bernadette Soubirous, a poor, illiterate local girl, in a cave beside the Gave de Pau river and a total of eight million pilgrims are expected at the shrine this year, a third more than usual: in September, Benedict XVI is coming. According to a leaked letter, prosecutors have even suggested soft-pedalling the investigation until after the pope's visit.

The Zambelli Affair has laid bare the long-standing resentment that seethes among the 15,000 inhabitants of Lourdes, where the residential and administrative 'upper town' has a sometimes tense relationship with the highly commercialised 'lower town', with its souvenir shops selling religious bric-a-brac.

In the upper town, the investigation into Zambelli's finances has unleashed a strong sense of Schadenfreude. Every visitor at the shrine spends around €100 - manna from which those who are neither hoteliers nor souvenir shop owners are excluded. 'Serves them right,' said one waiter in the upper town. 'About time they got their comeuppance.'

For those selling Lourdes water for €3(£2.50) a litre, the rosaries, the statuettes and the flashing plastic models of Bernadette , the fear is that the scandal will cost hard cash. 'It's like the Tour de France. One rider done for doping and the public think they are all on drugs,' said Anton Dupont, a taxi driver.

Church authorities have acted recently to restrain the souvenir sellers' commercial excesses. Bottles of wine with the Virgin Mary on the label and place mats picturing the shrine's famous cave were banned, though healing mints made with holy water from the Lourdes spring are still on the shelves.

Nor is the Church itself immune to the fallout. For the priests, the fear is for the big donors. More than a quarter of the sanctuary's revenue comes from gifts. 'The pilgrims themselves will come whatever,' said Dehaine. 'But the donors might be affected.'

Local prosecutors are now weighing up whether to act against Zambelli, who has not been suspended.

'Without the shrine, most of us would be out of business, so we have to get on,' said Philippe Bianco, head of the local Chamber of Commerce. There was also little sign that the thousands flowing up the long esplanade leading to the basilica, dropping a donation of a couple of euros in a box for a candle or queuing for the grotto were worried by the state of the Zambelli bank account.

Liam McGovern, 37, a former boxer from Ireland, had come to Lourdes with his mother to fulfil a promise made after he recovered from stomach cancer after visiting the shrine last year.

'There is something here that is real,' he said. 'A lot of people talk about this being a racket, but that doesn't change my faith. When your back is against the wall, like mine was, you have to talk to the man up above. And sometimes he answers.'

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1. Comment #209789 by decius on July 13, 2008 at 10:50 am

A snake oil pedlar has been dishonest.
Who could have told?

Other Comments by decius

2. Comment #209793 by kaiserkriss on July 13, 2008 at 11:09 am

HA-HA!!(voice of Nelson from the Simpsons)

It's ALL about the money. It absolutely disgusts me these sanctimonious charlatans can get away with such obvious trickery by preying on the stupidity of their flock. Any other legitimate business that pays taxes no less would be hauled in front of a Judge for pulling similar stunts. Yet society condones this crap... jcw

Other Comments by kaiserkriss

3. Comment #209796 by D'Arcy on July 13, 2008 at 11:14 am

'Without the shrine, most of us would be out of business, so we have to get on,' said Philippe Bianco, head of the local Chamber of Commerce.

Ah yes of course! I forgot God smiles on the entrepreneurs and risk takers! The Zambelli affair may just be warning for them from on high.

Other Comments by D'Arcy

4. Comment #209798 by WilliamP on July 13, 2008 at 11:19 am

I really hope they shut this scam down soon. And then the bigger scam of selling people holy water at Lourdes. And the much bigger scam of selling people "salvation" through a carpenter who lived 2000 years ago.

Other Comments by WilliamP

5. Comment #209821 by Border Collie on July 13, 2008 at 11:57 am

So what's new? This scam is at least 2,000 years old.

Other Comments by Border Collie

6. Comment #209825 by mordacious1 on July 13, 2008 at 12:00 pm

Hey, taxi driver, don't compare your made up religious nonsense to the Tour de France.

Damn, my mom told me I should have been a priest. Lots of money and sex, and you only have to read one book.

Other Comments by mordacious1

7. Comment #209839 by Notcrowingbutyawning on July 13, 2008 at 12:14 pm

He should use the Father Ted defence.

''That money was simply 'resting' in my account.''

Other Comments by Notcrowingbutyawning

8. Comment #209865 by thermalsatsuma on July 13, 2008 at 12:50 pm

That money was just *resting* in his account!

Other Comments by thermalsatsuma

9. Comment #209945 by Factofevolution on July 13, 2008 at 3:27 pm

A poor illiterate girl says she sees "the virgin Mary" in a cave 150 years ago and every year how many thousands of people flock there?

150 years ago an educated man writes a book which in a few years completely revolutionizes the scientific community's understanding of LIFE and how many millions still don't accept it?

We can not survive this magnitude of ignorance much longer!

Other Comments by Factofevolution

10. Comment #209983 by amalthea on July 13, 2008 at 5:11 pm

Quick question, remind me again, which organisation is the single largest landowner ON THE PLANET?

yep, Irony definitely intended.

A

Other Comments by amalthea

11. Comment #210053 by Enlightenme.. on July 13, 2008 at 7:56 pm

Everything I've ever heard about this godforsaken place of poor desperate sheep fleecing makes it sound like the epitome of hell on earth. Perhaps only the annual tragic hajj tramplings-to-death can equal it.

Other Comments by Enlightenme..

12. Comment #210135 by TIKI AL on July 14, 2008 at 1:41 am

If it were not for that little b.s.ing peasant girl we wouldn't have that "down by Lourdes" song by the fabulous Rod Stewart.

OK, so I bought the song, but I'm drawing the line on the water purchase.

Other Comments by TIKI AL

13. Comment #210152 by alfonso on July 14, 2008 at 3:04 am

So, truth will make their profits dry up, yet all the lies were making profits soar?

What kind of business follows that model?

Fucktards!

Other Comments by alfonso

14. Comment #210154 by irate_atheist on July 14, 2008 at 3:08 am

9. Comment #209945 by Factofevolution -

We can not survive this magnitude of ignorance much longer!

We can't. By tolerating religion, humanity is signing it's own death warrant.

Other Comments by irate_atheist

15. Comment #210174 by hungarianelephant on July 14, 2008 at 3:50 am

For those selling Lourdes water for â‚¬3(Â£2.50) a litre, the rosaries, the statuettes and the flashing plastic models of Bernadette , the fear is that the scandal will cost hard cash. 'It's like the Tour de France. One rider done for doping and the public think they are all on drugs,' said Anton Dupont, a taxi driver.

Whereas in fact, it's just the one who wins. And the ones who come second, third, fourth, fifth and sixth.

I've never been to Lourdes, and have no plans to do so at any time in the next 80 years. Do they have holy water taps (that's faucets to you lot who haven't woken up yet), like they do in Knock? I once suggested to a church stalwart that, by the same logic, the bishes could simply go and bless all the reservoirs in Ireland, so that all the water is holy. I never got a reply. Odd, that.

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16. Comment #210179 by Jamie V on July 14, 2008 at 3:59 am

Part of me is saddened by the fact that so many people get taken in by this scam.

An altogether less noble part of me also wonders how I can get in on the action. People seem desperate to throw their money away, and I'd like to catch it!

However, being an honest sort, I wouldn't do it. I do wonder why not though, as I'm an atheist and therefore don't have any morals.

WHY DO PEOPLE STILL BELIEVE IN THIS NONSENSE?!?!?

Other Comments by Jamie V

17. Comment #210181 by irate_atheist on July 14, 2008 at 4:09 am

Are these false profits, perchance?

Jamie V - Probably due to childhood indoctrination. They. Just, Can't. Let. Go.

Other Comments by irate_atheist

18. Comment #210208 by padster1976 on July 14, 2008 at 4:54 am

"healing mints made with holy water from the Lourdes spring are still on the shelves."

How fantastic is that!? Healing Mints!!!

And how funny!!!

Other Comments by padster1976

19. Comment #210213 by bentleyd on July 14, 2008 at 5:15 am

The healing mints healed my halitosis! *Falls backward, shakes violently, and speaks in tongues with minty fresh breath*

Other Comments by bentleyd

20. Comment #210223 by Tyler Durden on July 14, 2008 at 5:44 am

The "Father Ted" defence is a classic. Has been used here in Ireland for many a year.

"My penis was just resting in the altar boy's anus, I would've removed it had anyone complained." a priest convicted of child abuse didn't say.

Other Comments by Tyler Durden

21. Comment #210331 by j.mills on July 14, 2008 at 9:14 am

Putting aside whether Bernadette saw anything at all, I was intrigued to read in the Fortean a while back that her 'visions' went on for months before it was 'decided' who or what it was that she was 'seeing': a ghost? a fairy? an angel? The area was rife with superstition: the visions began in 1858, and as recently as 1851 a nearby town had burned a witch!

I'm inclined to think that people tend to go to Lourdes AFTER medicine has done all it can, rather than BEFORE...

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22. Comment #210597 by Lucas on July 14, 2008 at 9:51 pm

I'm sorry, why are we all suddenly so compassionate toward the rubes? When people believe in silliness, we ridicule them. Then, when some enterprising folk fleece the rubes, we feel bad for them and condemn the fleecers? Naw. Rubes get no sympathy, despite that fact that tricking them into giving you something valuable for something worthless is pretty sleazy. But by that logic, most of consumer culture is pretty sleazy. Miracle Grow with make your lawn healthier! This car has new tires! McDonald's salads are good for you! SUVs are a good investment! A bachelor's degree will get you a good job! C'mon. Everybody's a huckster.

Other Comments by Lucas

23. Comment #210620 by GordonYKWong on July 14, 2008 at 10:41 pm

'It's like the Tour de France. One rider done for doping and the public think they are all on drugs,' said Anton Dupont, a taxi driver.

I don't care, I am still following the tour.

Go Cadel. Go McEwan. Go Silence-Lotto. Wooooo...

Other Comments by GordonYKWong

24. Comment #210676 by TheBeard on July 15, 2008 at 1:10 am

I was in Lourdes three times as a teenager to help push wheelchairs around, I'm surprised that theres any market for selling Lourdes water. Its free from a bank of taps along the wall leading from the main basillica to the grotto in the side of the hill. I cant imagine why anyone would pay for it.

TheBeard (ex-Catholic).

Other Comments by TheBeard

25. Comment #210835 by fides_et_ratio on July 15, 2008 at 6:16 am

I've been to Lourdes lots of times. It's a fantastic place where the spirit of God is truly present in the love and service people show each other. The secular side of Lourdes is less appealing, local yoof often shoot pilgrims with pellet guns for a laugh. I took a peelet in the hand myself once from a moped-riding anti-religious violent person myself.

I can confirm though that the water is completely free, as are all aspects of the shrine itself.

Other Comments by fides_et_ratio

26. Comment #210840 by Steve Zara on July 15, 2008 at 6:23 am

Comment #210835 by fides_et_ratio

That is actually quite a nasty thing to say: People give love and service because of the spirit of God, not just because they are nice.

I have more respect for people than that.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

27. Comment #210843 by Tyler Durden on July 15, 2008 at 6:29 am

fides,

It's a con-job, however you want to rationalise it.

An estimated 100 million people have visited the shrine of Lourdes since 1860 in search of "miracle" cures. According to official figures, only 67 miracles have been recognised in that time.

But what about the 99.999933% who left without cure, and/or died of their illness? How convenient that these numbers are not mentioned by official sources. Were these people deemed not worthy of cure by the great sky-god? Perhaps they didn't pray enough. Or pay enough.

If casinos in Las Vegas gave those types of ridiculous odds, people would stop visiting and casinos would be out of business within a week. Yet people continue to flock to Lourdes hoping to be 1 in 1,492,537. At least with Vegas you know it's only entertainment.

And what of amputees visiting Lourdes? Where are their stories of "miracles". Yet it happens in nauture: In urodele amphibians, i.e. salamanders, regeneration of a new limb after amputation takes from one month to around three months, depending on the age of the animal. In mammals, e.g. MRL mice, where the msx1 gene is turned on in their muscle cells enabling regeneration of heart, tail and spinal cord tissue without scarring. And in humans, where, although the msx1 gene is turned off in us, our fingertips have shown regenerative capabilities.

Why no "miracle" cure for amputees?

And as for the economical benefits bestowed upon Lourdes these past years, surely a coincidence?

Other Comments by Tyler Durden

28. Comment #210844 by Quetzalcoatl on July 15, 2008 at 6:30 am

fides-

yes, but you would claim that the spirit of God is present anywhere people are nice to each other, wouldn't you? So your statement does nothing to show that Lourdes is anything special.

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29. Comment #210874 by fides_et_ratio on July 15, 2008 at 7:33 am

Steve,

Would it make more sense or be less nasty to say that people there give love and service as a result of memes at work?

Other Comments by fides_et_ratio

30. Comment #210879 by irate_atheist on July 15, 2008 at 7:39 am

fides -

But it would be more accurate to say they are spreading ignorance and lies.

People like you make me puke.

Other Comments by irate_atheist

31. Comment #210886 by Quetzalcoatl on July 15, 2008 at 7:51 am

Fides-

do you really think that the whole "Lourdes industry" is not a massive con?

Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl

32. Comment #210891 by Philip1978 on July 15, 2008 at 8:01 am

Fides

I am very confused as to how you could possibly be praising this place, I think it epitomises just how wrong and deeply disgusting it is to lie to people in such a manner. These people cannot be cured by some magic rock, life simply doesn't work that way.

As Tyler said, the 67 supposedly registered miracles since 1860 is a bit of a crap set of statistics isn't it? The thousands upon thousands that visit the place to be lied to after a promise of a chance of a cure makes me want to vomit.

What irritates me the most is why it took a financial scandal to get people to stay away from the place and not some exceptionally duplicitous and disgusting charlatanism of the people who promote this horrible lie.

I would give it some serious thought there Fides, I don't think your reasoning holds much weight to it in face of the facts that show the place is a lie.

Other Comments by Philip1978

33. Comment #210928 by fides_et_ratio on July 15, 2008 at 9:07 am

Phillip, how's things?

If my good experiences of Lourdes were based on the search for physical healing I'd probably be disappointed. My experience and the joy I've found in visiting Lourdes has been the reult of working and living with those less fortunate than myself. My last experience of Lourdes was a few years ago when I was looking after a teenager with the mental age of a toddler. He woke me up at 5:30am with a smile on his face and invariably pyjamas drenched in wee. It was a transformative experience I engaged in because my faith called me to. His Mum was a single-parent who benefitted from the break too. Incidentally the only charge for the whole week was from non-religious bodies, aeroplanes, hotels etc. There is no charge for the religious aspect of Lourdes at all, none. Not the water, nothing.

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34. Comment #210935 by Tyler Durden on July 15, 2008 at 9:16 am

fides,

There's nothing "there" to charge for, so exacltly what would they be charging for?

And you're confusing altruism with some kind of religious "experience". Go ask a doctor, who doesn't believe in gods, working for Doctors without Borders (Medecins Sans Frontieres), a secular organisation, how he/she feels after saving somebody's life, they may feel exactly the same.

Warm. Fuzzy. Feelings. Do. Not. Prove. Your. God. Exists.

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35. Comment #210936 by Ian Bamlett on July 15, 2008 at 9:16 am

Comment #210928 by fides_et_ratio:

My last experience of Lourdes was a few years ago when I was looking after a teenager with the mental age of a toddler....It was a transformative experience I engaged in because my faith called me to. His Mum was a single-parent who benefitted from the break too.

Did the mother expect her son to be cured? How did she feel when he wasn't? How did you explain that?

Just wondering.

Other Comments by Ian Bamlett

36. Comment #210938 by irate_atheist on July 15, 2008 at 9:19 am

33. Comment #210928 by fides_et_ratio -

My last experience of Lourdes was a few years ago when I was looking after a teenager with the mental age of a toddler. He woke me up at 5:30am with a smile on his face and invariably pyjamas drenched in wee. It was a transformative experience I engaged in because my faith called me to.

Meanwhile, in the real world, two of my friends now have a severely physically, visually and mentally handicapped 2 and a 1/2 year old daughter. Handicapped because of a rare infection that inflmaes the heart. And you have the braindead ghoulishness to write: "It was a transformative experience I engaged in because my faith called me to." You are a fucking self-righteous, wilfully ignorant, full-of-shit, cunt. In it for what's in it for you.

Stuff your smug self-satisfied wankery up your arse and fuck off while you're doing it.

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37. Comment #210940 by hungarianelephant on July 15, 2008 at 9:21 am

And that's why they call him "irate".

Other Comments by hungarianelephant

38. Comment #210941 by irate_atheist on July 15, 2008 at 9:21 am

But I don't know why you're an elephant.

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39. Comment #210944 by hungarianelephant on July 15, 2008 at 9:25 am

irate - Partly because it's a deliberately silly moniker, to try to stop me from taking myself too seriously. (It works sometimes.)

And partly it's an in-joke with my wife. I'll let you read into that what you will.

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40. Comment #210945 by fides_et_ratio on July 15, 2008 at 9:25 am

Tyler, you're confusing my explanation of an experience I had relevant to the thread to an attempt to prove God's existence, it wasn't. I was trying to bring some light to the subject, as many on here with no first-hand knowledge of Lourdes seem to hold certain opinions about it. In terms of the warm, fuzzy feelings, on my previous visit a few years earlier I was in the grip of alcoholism, in a sober and desperate moment I sat at the grotto and asked Our Lady to pray for me to be healed from that illness. I had to come home early because I was incapable and as a result a series of events occurred which have resulted in me not having had a drink in a long time. That's also not an attempt at proving anything, just my experience of a special place.

Ian, I'd be very surprised if she did, to my knowledge she wasn't a churchgoer, just someone who appreciated people taking her child away on holiday.

Other Comments by fides_et_ratio

41. Comment #210950 by irate_atheist on July 15, 2008 at 9:28 am

And partly it's an in-joke with my wife.

Ah. So you are neither:
a) Hungarian.

nor

b) An elephant.

This would explain a lot.

I thought I would choose a name that would do exactly what it said on the tin.

Other Comments by irate_atheist

42. Comment #210951 by fides_et_ratio on July 15, 2008 at 9:30 am

9. Comment #210944 by hungarianelephant on July 15, 2008 at 9:25 a

You've ears the size of flags?

Other Comments by fides_et_ratio

43. Comment #210953 by irate_atheist on July 15, 2008 at 9:31 am

40. Comment #210945 by fides_et_ratio -

...in a sober and desperate moment I sat at the grotto and asked Our Lady to pray for me to be healed from that illness. I had to come home early because I was incapable and as a result a series of events occurred which have resulted in me not having had a drink in a long time.

So you decided you didn't want to drink anymore and, lo, you didn't! What a fucking miracle.

And so we see the wilful self-delusion in action.

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44. Comment #210954 by hungarianelephant on July 15, 2008 at 9:31 am

This would explain a lot.

It would?

Other Comments by hungarianelephant

45. Comment #210956 by Tyler Durden on July 15, 2008 at 9:39 am

fides,

We've been here before.

My mother was an alcoholic (my father still is), trust me, I know what I'm talking about. It eventually killed her. Perhaps she didn't pray hard enough? Or maybe, just maybe, her liver gave out due to massive amounts of alcohol consumed over the years.

You haven't had a drink "in a long time", I understand how difficult that is, kudos, keep up the good work (I mean it) - but correlation does not mean causation, you're confusing two seperate events and hoping they are connected.

Are you honestly saying that the reason you are still off drink is to do with a prayer to Mary, and nothing to do with your hard work/willpower/AA/family/friends/sponsor?

Think about it. If prayers actually do nothing, and Mary is dead, all this hard work is yours. Yet you want to explain it all away on some superstitious nonsense.

Other Comments by Tyler Durden

46. Comment #210966 by epeeist on July 15, 2008 at 10:02 am

Comment #210928 by fides_et_ratio

My last experience of Lourdes was a few years ago when I was looking after a teenager with the mental age of a toddler.

Fides - for five years I coached a young lad with dyspraxia. For nearly all of that time I gave him virtually the same lesson each week because he was incapable of retaining even the simplest things and his lack of coordination would not allow him to do anything more complex than I was giving others after a month.

We both knew that he wouldn't get too far but we put in a lot of effort together to improve his coordination and memory skills.

Strangely enough your god didn't seem to want to help. It was the empathy between us and the corresponding work to understand his limitations and capabilities that seemed to do the most good.

Other Comments by epeeist

47. Comment #211304 by Ed-words on July 15, 2008 at 6:10 pm

I've read that Bernadette,the girl
who saw "La Virgen", was upset with the
curative waters aspect, and said that was no part of her experience. Her seriously ill father
never availed himself of its "powers"

There's a great chapter on Lourdes in Carl Sagan's "The Demon-haunted World."

Other Comments by Ed-words

48. Comment #211471 by fides_et_ratio on July 16, 2008 at 3:59 am

46. Comment #210966 by epeeist on July 15, 2008 at 10:02 am

If he wants a free holiday in the South of France, let me know, maybe a few of God's followers can help him out.

Other Comments by fides_et_ratio

49. Comment #211472 by Tyler Durden on July 16, 2008 at 4:02 am

fides,

Are you honestly saying that the reason you are still off drink is to do with a prayer to Mary, and nothing to do with your hard work/willpower/AA/family/friends/sponsor?

Other Comments by Tyler Durden

50. Comment #211473 by irate_atheist on July 16, 2008 at 4:06 am

Tyler - We may be encountering the 'no true alcoholic' fallacy.

Other Comments by irate_atheist