Monday, July 14, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version

Dalai Lama defends Islam as peaceful religion

by Yahoo News

Thanks to for the link.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080713/ap_on_re_us/dalai_lama

Dalai Lama defends Islam as peaceful religion

BETHLEHEM, Pa. - The Dalai Lama said Sunday that "it's totally wrong, unfair" to call Islam a violent religion.

The Tibetan spiritual leader, appearing at Lehigh University in Pennsylvania, offered a defense of Islam in response to a question about the rise of violent religious fundamentalism. He added that he has made a point of reaching out to Muslims since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

The Dalai Lama arrived at Lehigh on Thursday for a series of talks on a 600-year-old Buddhist text. He took a break Sunday to lecture on "Generating a Good Heart," and afterward took questions from Lehigh President Alice P. Gast that had been submitted in advance by the public.

Asked why so many Americans are depressed and anxious, he joked: "I'm the wrong person to ask. You should ask Americans." Then he answered that U.S. society is too competitive and that people always want "something more, something more, something more."

The Dalai Lama, who attracted a capacity crowd of about 5,000, did not mention next month's Beijing Olympics. The Chinese government has demanded that the Dalai Lama express support for the Olympics and repudiate efforts to disrupt them as a condition for continued talks.

China has governed Tibet since the 1950s. The Dalai Lama, who fled to India amid a failed uprising in 1959, has said he wants some form of autonomy that would allow Tibetans to freely practice their culture, language and religion.

The Dalai Lama, who turned 73 on July 6, said Sunday that he's looking forward to "complete retirement." He joked that he's now considered a "senior most respected adviser" to Tibet's government in exile.

He is scheduled to speak at the Kimmel Center in Philadelphia on Wednesday.

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1. Comment #210426 by Jamie V on July 14, 2008 at 2:08 pm

The Dalai Lama said Sunday that "it's totally wrong, unfair" to call Islam a violent religion.

Just as it's totally wrong and unfair to call China oppressive.

That's the trouble with religious leaders - they forget that they're no longer the ultimate authority or last word on anything.

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2. Comment #210433 by Dax on July 14, 2008 at 2:19 pm

See, it's because Islam is such a peaceful religion that in nearly every open armed conflict in the world right now Islam is a major player.

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3. Comment #210434 by Jiten on July 14, 2008 at 2:20 pm

The Dalai Lama is going to lose a lot of respect for saying this. I've always found him to be a man full of empty platitudes. He's no deep thinker.

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4. Comment #210437 by Ian Bamlett on July 14, 2008 at 2:27 pm

I'm with Hitchens on the Dalai Lama:

http://www.salon.com/news/1998/07/13news.html

As for the whole 'free Tibet' movement; freedom to return to a poverty stricken wasteland presided over by misogynistic parasitic monks? No thanks. China isn't perfect, but at least they are bringing running water and electricity to Tibet. Stick with them I say.

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5. Comment #210445 by Bonzai on July 14, 2008 at 2:49 pm

Ian,

You shouldn't confuse your dislike of the Dalai Lama with the legitimate grievances of the Tibetans. I find your way of implying that the Tibetans should be grateful to their Chinese conquerors rather disturbing, You are saying that they don't deserve any better and should be thankful what they have as it could have been worse.

I don't know what Tibet was like before 1953, you hear conflicting stories from both sides and the truth was probably somewhere in between.

I don't believe in the Richard Geer version of Tibet being heaven on earth governed by wise, philosopher monks; but I don't believe in the Chinese propaganda that it was living hell either. I heard that in Lasha there is a museum where they put torturing equipment on display, claiming that these were used by the Tibetan monks and landlords to torture the peasants. But according to an archaeologist who was a former employee, these devices were actually brought into Tibet by the Manchus when they conquered the place. The Manchurian conquest, oddly, was used by the Chinese government as proof that Tibet has been "an integral part of China". Even more ironic, the Manchus themselves were considered barbarian invaders by the Han all the way until the republican revolution.

Regardless what Tibet was like under the theocratic monks, the abuse by China is pretty well documented.

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6. Comment #210446 by HitbLade on July 14, 2008 at 2:50 pm

China is not treating them better than they were treated before. Free tibet from both old tibet and china.

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7. Comment #210448 by mdowe on July 14, 2008 at 3:01 pm

I'm sure Buddhists living in regions with significant Muslim populations are breathing a collective sigh of relief. If the Dalia Lama *had* pointed out the obvious ...

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8. Comment #210450 by Ian Bamlett on July 14, 2008 at 3:10 pm

Bonzai,

Fair points and well taken.

If my tone led you to think that I think Tibet should be grateful for China then I was not clear. I'm just saying I think they are better off comparatively and will keep getting better off as China changes. Such change would never have occurred, in my opinion, under the stultifying rule of the monks.

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9. Comment #210453 by Village_Idiot on July 14, 2008 at 3:15 pm

His Holiness Dalai Lama does not fall too far from other religious deluded lunatics of this world regardless what his next reincarnation is going to be. I can sign my name under this statement and notarize it.

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10. Comment #210460 by Goldy on July 14, 2008 at 3:42 pm

Given that news reports stated that ethnic Tibetans attacked Hui as well as Han, this might be the Dalai Lama's way of telling those that follow him not to attack religious minorities.

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11. Comment #210462 by exorcist on July 14, 2008 at 3:46 pm

The Lama is looking forward to retirement? I had no idea you could retire from the post of semigod?

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12. Comment #210463 by doubtingfoo on July 14, 2008 at 3:50 pm

What were his actual words? Such a small quote, I'd like to see the entire statement not just 4 words in quotation marks.

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13. Comment #210469 by Vaal on July 14, 2008 at 4:11 pm

Really? I thought the Dalai Lama had more sense. I didn't think he would ever be an apologist for the horrors of Islam. Shame on him!

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14. Comment #210471 by Radesq on July 14, 2008 at 4:19 pm

doubtingfoo:

I believe he went on to say...

"Islam doesn't kill people; Islamists kill people."

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15. Comment #210478 by Dhamma on July 14, 2008 at 4:34 pm

I think Buddhism is a very interesting "religion", even though I still don't know as much as I'd like. Though I hope Dalai Lama only speaks for the Tibetan buddhists as I find it hard to believe the Theravada buddhists would agree with him on much.

Really, he's only trying to show them respect, but since when did muslims give a damn? I'd be surprised if the mullahs will praise him, as I've never heard them say anything but bad things about buddhists before.

Islam is a religion of hatred, and we all just stare when they rape our societies.

"All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."

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16. Comment #210482 by Goldy on July 14, 2008 at 4:39 pm

Anotehr dying religion, in some parts...
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/14/world/asia/14japan.html?ref=asia

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17. Comment #210484 by Dhamma on July 14, 2008 at 4:50 pm

Anotehr dying religion, in some parts...

Buddhism is a grossly misunderstood "religion". Most buddhists preach Buddha, which is a paradox in itself.

I can't deny though, even if I in many aspects find it to be great, there are those who call themselves buddhists and kill for the sake of their religion. I don't know what the hell they've been reading, but they've got nothing whatsoever to do with what the Buddha taught.

Buddhism should be practised, not believed in.

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18. Comment #210494 by Broshiesq on July 14, 2008 at 5:14 pm

Anyone know if he squeezed in a round of 18 while here? Big hitter, the Lama.

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19. Comment #210508 by mikecbraun on July 14, 2008 at 5:50 pm

U.S. society is too competitive...right. We should be wearing bathrobes, sitting around in a trance and maybe training a tiger or two every once in a while. F*ck off. At least one American has contributed something to the good of mankind. What has any Buddhist ever done? I mean real, tangible results.

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20. Comment #210511 by Goldy on July 14, 2008 at 5:58 pm

What has any Buddhist ever done? I mean real, tangible results.

They built some great big statues in Bamyan... ;-)

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21. Comment #210512 by mikecbraun on July 14, 2008 at 5:59 pm

Let's make that more like I intended and ask what any Tibetan Buddhist monk has ever done to really benefit humanity? That makes it sound less idiotic than how I typed it last time...

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22. Comment #210514 by Goldy on July 14, 2008 at 6:07 pm

That makes it sound less idiotic than how I typed it last time...

:-) Sorry, couldn't resist.
I believe they were quite big in SE Asia - while I ma not 100% sure if that is pertinent now, certainly in past history they were major players in world affairs (such as world affairs are). The way China is can be said to have been in a small way influenced by Buddhist thought. Makes me think we shouldn't write it off completely.
I know that doesn't answer your question - but then I am of a very Eurocentric mindset. As my wife would ask - what has Jesus done for us (she's Chinese - there are Christians in China but they are of no consequence).

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23. Comment #210515 by Brian English on July 14, 2008 at 6:08 pm

Shameless plug:

http://philosophicalneuron.blogspot.com/2008/07/science-fiction.html

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24. Comment #210526 by Christopher Davis on July 14, 2008 at 6:38 pm

Dhamma,

Oh beleive me, Muslims give a damn about people showing respect for their religion, they just don't give a damn about reciprocating.

As for all the people who keep claiming that Islam being a peaceful religion...bullshit. It's a primitive religion. People confuse piety with peacefulness. Just because some guy prostrates himself before his "God" five times a day, it doesn't mean he's not a violent asshole.

Also, I'm sick of hearing that it's the "fundamentalists" who are giving Islam a bad name. Once again...bullshit. The number of Muslims who actively and vocally condemn the "fundamentalists" represent a numerically insignificant percentage, and generally have views regarding other aspects of Islam that would have most "good Muslims" branding them apostates.

While it may be a minority of Muslims who actually commit violent, terrorist-style actions, it is the majority of the Muslim world that simply shrugs its shoulders and goes right back to lying face-down in the camel shit in deference to their God. This level of apathy is particularly revealing when you consider how the Muslim world reacts to cartoons and comments they deem blasphemous.

Islam is a religion of ignorance, intolerance and indifference. Peace rarely figures into the equation.

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25. Comment #210536 by Radesq on July 14, 2008 at 6:57 pm

You should stop all this politely dancing around the issue Christopher and state how you really feel about Islam.

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26. Comment #210538 by Jack Rawlinson on July 14, 2008 at 7:04 pm

Oh, does he really? How very fascinating. Now, is there any reason why I should give the slightest respect to what this deluded berk says?

The Dalai Lama is believed to be the current incarnation of a long line of Tulkus, or Buddhist Masters, who have become exempt from the wheel of death and rebirth. These ascended masters have chosen of their own free will to be reborn to this plane in order to teach humanity.

In other words, the man is insane, and I will treat his utterances accordingly.

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27. Comment #210558 by mmurray on July 14, 2008 at 7:41 pm

If you want the whole thing in context looks like there is a video here

http://www3.lehigh.edu/dalailama/index.html

Michael

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28. Comment #210564 by MPhil on July 14, 2008 at 7:48 pm

Jack Rawlinson,

actually, on many topics - he is really enlightened. For example, he once stated that since science shows complete mechanistic determinism to be false, that's the way it is and buddhist doctrine is false. Concerning a few political and moral issues, he's also very enlightened.

But yes, when it comes to rebirth - that's just unjustified dogma.

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29. Comment #210574 by melsdr on July 14, 2008 at 8:21 pm

I think the ananymous polling of Muslims needs to continue. Three questions I would like to hear Muslims from accross the globe to answer:

Is torture a fitting punishment for allowing a child to name a teddy bear mohammed?

Is death a fitting punishment for a female who has sex outside of marriage (including rape)?

Does Mohammed having sexual intercourse with a 9 year old girl make him a paedophile?

I really want to get a proper grip on what muslims really think, and how this depends on where in the world they are. Do Indonesian Muslims think differntly on these matters to Saudi Muslims?

As for the Dalai Lama, who cares. Whats one more person trying to appease islam. I am more worried by western political leaders saying the same things.

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30. Comment #210580 by Uhtred on July 14, 2008 at 8:38 pm

One could only hope that the Dalai Lama was attempting to use a little positive psychology on Muslims, you know, something along the lines of 'treat a man as he is, and he'll remain as he is. Treat a man as he could and ought to be, and he'll become as he could and ought to be'.

My respect for the venerable old man man will be greatly reduced if he meant or intended anything else.

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31. Comment #210583 by Lucas on July 14, 2008 at 8:56 pm

The Dalai Lama may subscribe to religious superstitions of a sort, but let's not alienate potential allies. Quite generally, I think the man's heart is in the right place, despite visions of reincarnation. Again I submit to everyone here the idea that while indeed benevolent and malevolent religious beliefs are equally incorrect as descriptions of reality, some are more malignant than others. In fact, didn't Dennett say, or at least imply, basically this in that little video recently posted? The virulent strains should be our concern. Of course, it doesn't help to have some of the less problematic meme pushers apologize for the violent ones. But he is right to say that there are some non-threatening believers in Allah. I absolutely do not say, nor should any of us, that you CANNOT believe in Islam; believe what you will, just don't spread the destructive forms.

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32. Comment #210586 by shonny on July 14, 2008 at 9:06 pm

| 15. Comment #210478 by Dhamma on July 14, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Islam is a religion of hatred, and we all just stare when they rape our societies. |

Yep, just like christianity (all variants) and judaism (all variants).
Abrahamic religions are all about self-righteousness and revenge (including rape), - but what did you expect from a crazy mob of fringe-dwellers spending most of their time looking up the ass of goats and camels?
Sophistication and worldliness??

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33. Comment #210587 by 8teist on July 14, 2008 at 9:08 pm

"the wheel of death and rebirth."

Is this like the wheel of fortune,how do I get onto that show And what do I win?

Show me the money ,lama dick.

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34. Comment #210596 by mmurray on July 14, 2008 at 9:50 pm

Is this like the wheel of fortune,how do I get onto that show And what do I win?

I think Buddhists believe we are all on this show and the problem is getting off :-)

Michael

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35. Comment #210599 by Village_Idiot on July 14, 2008 at 10:02 pm

8teist that's a good one!

the wheel of death and rebirth

When you really think about the idea of reincarnation only one conclusion comes to mind: A steaming pile of religious excrement and primitive backwardness. Ufff...it felt so good to get this of my myocardium!

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36. Comment #210603 by maxamillion on July 14, 2008 at 10:10 pm

Asked why so many Americans are depressed and anxious

Too many religious leaders telling their parishioners that they are worthless and too many dolts believing it.

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37. Comment #210610 by Pink Unicorn on July 14, 2008 at 10:27 pm

What do you expect from a monk who goes around pretending to preach love and compassion and then goes around spreading homophobia?

Fuck the Dalai Lama. Hypocrite.

I'm with Hitchens on this one.

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38. Comment #210623 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 14, 2008 at 10:49 pm

BETHLEHEM, Pa. - The Dalai Lama said Sunday that "it's totally wrong, unfair" to call Islam a violent religion.

Thus demonstrating that 'His Material Highness' knows nothing whatsoever about the subject and is disinclined to learn.

I'm with Ian on this one. The Daila Lamas were nothing but parasites who lived on poverty-stricken, starved peasants.

Hitch get's it right as always:

. Among the untested assumptions of this billboard campaign is the widely and lazily held belief that "Oriental" religion is different from other faiths: less dogmatic, more contemplative, more ... transcendental.

Shonny, I'm sorry, but you're wrong: Islam is not just like Christianity or Judaism. It's something far more sinister.

Again I submit to everyone here the idea that while indeed benevolent and malevolent religious beliefs are equally incorrect as descriptions of reality,

Lucas I agree with your general point, but not with the specific one. I agree that today a belief in reincarnation is little more than frippery, but it was originally devised to justify the hideous class systems of India.

N.B.: Here Penn and Teller take on the Dalai Llama:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fYEOSCIOnrs

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39. Comment #210624 by History_Junky on July 14, 2008 at 10:52 pm

I think the Dali Lama forgot the part about how Buddhism use to be the dominate religion of the area today known as Pakistan and Afghanistan before the Arabs brought their religion....peacefully to the area.

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40. Comment #210627 by Cluebot on July 14, 2008 at 11:02 pm

I'll try to be generous here and say that the Dalai Lama - and Buddhism in general - seems to be a great improvement on other major religions.

Obtaining a peaceful mind is a noble goal to seek, though I wish they would not obfuscate it with superstition like all the other mystics. The Dalai Lama has stated a commendable attitude to science, along the lines of "if there is a problem [with Buddism], we fix."

Religious apology for the religion of perpetual jihad and unyielding medieval stupidity is, however, inexcusable.

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41. Comment #210634 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 14, 2008 at 11:19 pm

History_Junky! I thought I was the only one who knew about Kanishka and so on.

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42. Comment #210658 by Enlightenme.. on July 15, 2008 at 12:24 am

^^^ "Dali Lama"

http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/jonfoote/dali/llama.html

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43. Comment #210665 by atp on July 15, 2008 at 12:39 am

How do you define a "peaceful religion"?

Is it a religion that preaches peace?
Or is it a religion that leads to peace?

Because the first doesn't seem to necessary lead to the second.

I say it's something in the nature of religion itself that is the problem.

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44. Comment #210713 by V'Ger on July 15, 2008 at 2:24 am

Doesn't the Dalai Lama believe in reincarnation though? So I wouldn't take anything he says too seriously ;-)

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45. Comment #210733 by mixmastergaz on July 15, 2008 at 3:09 am

Of course Islam is a peaceful religion! Haven't you heard that Muslim countries "have bloody borders"?!

You want to point a finger of blame? Blame the cartographers!

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46. Comment #210743 by V'Ger on July 15, 2008 at 3:27 am

It ssems to teach peace umongst fellow muslims... but hatred and fear of everything else, including teddy bears (remember that?).

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47. Comment #210761 by Anwyl on July 15, 2008 at 3:55 am

I would suggest the main problem is with the Wahhabist creed of Islam that's being pushed by the Saudi's and the radical form of Shia in Iran. Afghanistan was largely Sufist before the Soviets invaded and then the Saudis and others decided to get rid of all their crimimals and religious extremists by sending them on a Jihad against the communists.

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48. Comment #210778 by mmurray on July 15, 2008 at 4:07 am

A bit more quote here

Long a voice for religious harmony, the Dalai Lama said there are what he called "mischievous people" in every religion, but that "a few mischievous people cannot represent whole systems or whole traditions.

"Sometimes in the West, some [have the] impression that Islam, whole, is something militant. It's totally wrong, unfair. Therefore, since Sept. 11, I try to reach out to Muslim brothers and sisters," he said, noting that Tibet has a long history of Buddhists and Muslims co-existing that dates back to the 5th Dalai Lama providing land to build a mosque.

http://www3.lehigh.edu/News/V2news_story.asp?iNewsID=2817

Michael

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49. Comment #210795 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 15, 2008 at 4:35 am

Once again, proof that this guy knows nothing about anything important.

From mmuray's article:

Calling the 20th century "a century of war," the Dalai Lama said: "The 21st century should be a century of dialogue.

Right. What this guy doesn't understand is that the reason for the 20th century being one of war is precisely because people fell prey to the fallacy, common to all advanced civilizations, that you can solve everything by dialogue.

Here is Dan Simmons's comment on that time:

The Austro-Hungarian Empire, although invisibly hollowed out by rot and in its final failing years, seems in 1900 to have succeeded in bringing stability and sanity to Europe. The continent is at peace, so much so and for so long (and here the parallels to early 21 st Century Europe are disturbingly clear) that the continent's vacation from history's shocks and responsibilities have led the Sonnenscheins (and all logical, optimistic Europeans) to believe that any dispute can be settled by dialogue, any demands from would-be tyrants appeased by reason and diplomacy, any lack of security rectified by more binding treaties and international organizations, and any remaining vestiges of social injustic or economic disparity remedied through the courts and bureaucracies. More hopeful than that in 1900 is the general acceptance of reason and tolerance as the mediating institutions of humankind, as well as the growing recognition of our common humanity. These dynamics toward ever-greater tolerance seem poised, on New Year's Eve 1900, to govern all of the future interactions between nations and men.

See The Munich Accords for what is wrong with this jaw-jaw nonsense.

Long a voice for religious harmony, the Dalai Lama said there are what he called "mischievous people" in every religion, but that "a few mischievous people cannot represent whole systems or whole traditions.

One hundred and eighty-six million Muslims - minimum - who approve of the 9/11 attacks isn't 'a few mischievous people'.

the theme for the event was "Listen, Learn, Love."

Oh, I have Listened and Learned aplenty about Islam. It doesn't seem to lead to Love though. More like Hate.

By learning and listening, the Dalai Lama said, that basic, human compassion can gradually be cultivated to grow into an infinite, unbiased compassion that is no longer dependent on the actions or attitudes of others.

And here is the flaw in all this mystic garbage: What if certain people don't want their 'infinite, unbiased compassion' to grow? What if some people like hatred and rage? What will these infinitely unbiased compassionate people do then?

herefore, since Sept. 11, I try to reach out to Muslim brothers and sisters,

What if these brothers and sisters don't want you to reach out to them? After all, you're a kaffir, just like the rest of us. In Shia Islam, even the briefest physical contact with you would be considered unclean?

the Dalai Lama said the never-ending quest for something new and something more was part of the problem, as is the gap that exists between rich and poor.

Again incorrect. In the difference between wealth and poverty, the problem is the poverty, not the difference. Wealth is swell. Even guys like Deng Xioping get this.

To be fair, this latest Dalai Lama seems not like his predecessors who were nothing but privileged parasites and tyrants. But what he's saying is still nonsense. And the main fault lies with us, in that we are willing, almost eager, to embrace such nonsense.

UPDATE: Be that as it may, his thuggish followers threatening the Dorge Shugden worshippers places everything in a very different perspective.

Other Comments by Fanusi Khiyal

50. Comment #210811 by Logicel on July 15, 2008 at 5:21 am

Fanusi, thanks for that link to that Penn & Teller youtube vid. Made my day, especially with Teller using that one clothing prop to be transformed into religious nuts.

When I see the Dalai Lama speaking, I see a priest, an imam, a rabbi. Same thing. Though the Dalai Lama tends to focus on the nurturing, feminine aspects of religion rather than the brute patriarchy of Islam or Catholicism, he has that same old 'hotline' to absolute truth and meaning for us all.

As Jesus junkies push their addiction to love down our throats, the Dalai does that with peace. And in doing so, both cheapen love and peace.

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