Tuesday, July 15, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version

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Fury at funeral songs ban

by Independent

Thanks to Gary J. Byrne

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fury-at-funeral-songs-ban-1433073.html

Fury at funeral songs ban

A NEW row has erupted over Catholic Church rules for funerals.

It flared up after jazz musician Paddy Cole revealed yesterday that he was not allowed to play at his mother's funeral Mass.

The flames had earlier been fanned when priests in Castleblayney, Co Monaghan circulated a leaflet at the weekend setting out the rules for funeral Mass from the Bishop of Clogher, Joseph Duffy.

The leaflet states that specially composed poems and favourite songs are in breach of the diocesan regulations.

And even the traditional practice of mourners lining up to shake hands with bereaved families in church is banned during Requeim Mass, although it is still permitted during the removal ceremony.

Mr Cole's comments sparked a rash of calls to a radio show from bereaved families who had been banned from playing "goodbye songs" or giving funeral eulogies.

The jazz star, who comes from the area, said he had played at funerals of friends in Dublin and other parts of the country but had been banned from performing a musical tribute at his mother's funeral.

Listeners then called RTE's 'Liveline' to vent their anger that they were not allowed to recite their memories of loved ones from the altar.

Meanwhile, a survey carried out yesterday by the Irish Independent found there was no specific set of rules applied by all of Ireland's 26 dioceses.

The Bishops Media Office in Maynooth did not have a rundown of the practices followed in each diocese -- and instead referred enquiries to a little-known document issued in November 2003 by the National Institute for Liturgy.

Titled 'Celebrating a Catholic Funeral', it stipulates that the text of the Roman Missal should be used at funerals and that the readings are taken from the sacred scriptures.

"However, some poems are better kept to the less formal stages of the funeral rites, either in the home or at the graveside," the document says.

Discussed

The document lays down that the homily is to be given by the priest but should be prepared in consultation with the family of the deceased. But it states there should be occasions when a member of the family may speak to the mourners.

"Only one family member should speak. It should be undertaken with the agreement of the celebrant and the prepared text should be discussed with the celebrant at a suitable time before the morning of the funeral. A separate microphone should be used, rather than the ambo, which is reserved for the Word of God."

The first rumblings in this funeral controversy go back to 2000 when the Archbishop of Armagh, Sean Brady, deplored "over the top" eulogies "going on for ever" as "unnecessary duplication" of the more formal aspects of the Catholic rite.

Fr Paddy Jones, of the Liturgical Centre, said that he did not know the specific cases involved, but knew a similar stance was taken by the Bishop of Meath, Michael Smith.

Yesterday, one Co Monaghan undertaker said : "This ruling has caused quite a stir", but nobody wanted to appear disrespectful to the clergy. He added that the playing of a favoured piece of music at the end of the funeral was a "long-standing tradition" which was now being "knocked on the head".

- John Cooney

Posted: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 | Permalink

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1. Comment #211162 by dazzjazz on July 15, 2008 at 2:37 pm

ah - the warm hand and heart of the catholic church.

I live in Sydney and we're beseiged by this cult this week - what a joke. And our govt gave 'em $80 million.

Darren

Other Comments by dazzjazz

2. Comment #211171 by Nairb on July 15, 2008 at 2:39 pm

This is so stupid in so many ways

I can only laugh.
It makes you wonder how much good luck was involved in man becoming the dominant species on this planet.

Other Comments by Nairb

3. Comment #211176 by Ian Bamlett on July 15, 2008 at 2:42 pm

Keep up the good work catholic leadership!

Your continual alienation of your own followers is a delight to see.

Other Comments by Ian Bamlett

4. Comment #211185 by skeptictank on July 15, 2008 at 2:48 pm

One of my buddies died in iraq, and his parents were catholic, so they had a catholic funeral for him. The priest was completely out of line, trying to use his untimely death for recruiting new catholics. He said things like "Nick was a good catholic, and its not too late for you all to be saved from the tortures of hell as he was". Knowing that he wasn't religious in the least bit, I just got up and left.

Other Comments by skeptictank

5. Comment #211187 by steve8282 on July 15, 2008 at 2:48 pm

Even if we let the Monsignor watch the kids during the mass?

Other Comments by steve8282

6. Comment #211199 by Ian Bamlett on July 15, 2008 at 2:59 pm

Comment #211185 by skeptictank:

He said things like "Nick was a good catholic, and its not too late for you all to be saved from the tortures of hell as he was".

Are you serious?

Un - fucking - believable.

I think walking out was the dignified response.

Other Comments by Ian Bamlett

7. Comment #211201 by Alan Canon on July 15, 2008 at 3:03 pm

My "in group" are largely secularists (many of them, though not overtly atheists, would describe themselves as "spiritual, but not religious.") Now that we're approaching middle age, we've had, in recent years, to absorb the sadness of having dear friends die, some "before their time."

I have been so touched by the secular memorial services that have been organized for several of our deceased friends. What has been interesting to me is that certain members of our community have come to the fore as the equivalent of "spiritual" leaders in these sad events. A sort of non-clergy clergy, in a way.

The memorial events themselves are very like the secular funerals that Richard Dawkins has often described. Many of us are musicians, and we now have a tradition of playing, continuously and improvisationally, for many hours while a memorial picnic takes place. During one such service for a fallen musician, we had piles and piles of musical instruments laid on blankets under a tree, so that anyone who liked could pick one up and join in. This in addition to eulogies and readings by friends and family members.

The families of the deceased, even if they are religious, have been very touched by our younger-person efforts to memorialize and grieve, and to celebrate the life that is now over, in our own way. Often, especially when the family is from another city, this is their first opportunity to know the community of friends who loved the deceased family member.

In contrast, we've also had to endure purely religious funerals, organized by families, for friends of ours who we knew did not share their family's religious beliefs. After one such dreadful service, in which the Bible got a lot of exposure, and the life of our deceased friend got none, I overheard someone saying, "Jesus already had his funeral. This should have been Kym's, not his." Another friend who attended the same funeral said that she was on the verge of laughing out loud during the service, recalling Dawkins' comment about his wife Lalla's reaction to the prayers during religious services. For my part, I was very angry during the same funeral. I wanted to jump up and shout "She didn't believe in that bullshit! This is not her! How dare you besmirch her memory by bringing your Baptist crap into her funeral!"

Since becoming an atheist, I've adjusted my ideas to exclude the persistence of the human mind after death. But as a materialist, someone who believes that the mind is not other than the activity of the human brain, I have a sort of neo-spiritual view of life after death: the minds of the dead do live on in the virtual-reality simulation inside the minds of those who remember them. When I dream about my deceased grandmother, or remember something a dear friend said to me long ago, I can, metaphorically speaking of course, imagine that a part of that person's "soul" is alive in a sort of distributed way, both in the memories of those who loved the deceased, and in our very makeup, inasmuch as we are changed forever by knowing such good people.

What about your experiences? Do you find that there are members of your secular community who are prized for their secular spirituality, the ability to provide comfort without resort to religious platitudes?

p.s. I've used the word "spiritual" in this posting, and I hope the word doesn't give offense. I hope it's obvious what I meant from the context.

Other Comments by Alan Canon

8. Comment #211202 by decius on July 15, 2008 at 3:07 pm

They are doing all the hard work for us. I can hardly think of anything that could alienate people more than dictating them how to mourn.
Well, actually I can.
But let's leave sex and money out of the picture.

Other Comments by decius

9. Comment #211216 by Dinah on July 15, 2008 at 3:40 pm

I loathe the false comfort of religious funerals, with the priest mouthing empty promises about the deceased's soul being received by God. It is a great temptation to stand up and shout 'Evidence, please!' Humanist funerals are much more moving and uplifting, because they are rooted in reality. We know we will never see the dead person again, so we are free to weep, if we wish, and/or rejoice in having had the privilege of knowing him or her in life. There is no pretence that the person somehow continues to exist somewhere else. And usually the music is better, too. No ghastly, dirge-like hymns, with the congregation battling it out with the organist to see who finishes first (or last).

Other Comments by Dinah

10. Comment #211219 by Gregg Townsend on July 15, 2008 at 3:47 pm

Alan Canon,

I'm tearing up.

the minds of the dead do live on in the virtual-reality simulation inside the minds of those who remember them.

I've said it before; my only chance at immortality is to live on in my children's and grand-children's memories. This is all the incentive I need to live a moral life.

Thanks.

Other Comments by Gregg Townsend

11. Comment #211223 by Logicel on July 15, 2008 at 3:57 pm

Humanist funerals are meaningful services. The absolute idiotic religious funerals I witnessed in my childhood only contributed to my disgust that I felt towards the clergy.

Often it is said that religion is used to mark important events. Well, it cheapens every event, whether it is a birth, a marriage, or a death. The clergy are just clueless, and yet the common held wisdom is that the clergy perform valuable services in this regard.

I have suspected for a long time that the so-called comfort that is associated with religion is a big, f*cking myth. And perhaps that is why for some religious brands, they are relinquishing their hold, because as the adherents mature, they can finally see with clear eyes, that there are many better ways to cope with life's challenges than putting oneself on the religious autopilot of intoning gibberish, swishing robes, and putrid incense.

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12. Comment #211225 by Naturalist1 on July 15, 2008 at 4:04 pm

First...My condolences to Paddy Cole..respected jazz sax musician...and his whole family on the death of his mother.
I have been a jazz musician since I was 11 years old (yes, I loved it even then)and I was outraged by this. In saying goodbye to ones mother it is healthy, even essential for the individual to be able to find a way to bring closure to the event.
Mr. Cole is an accomplished Tenor Sax player. What comes out of a learned jazz musician is his inner emotional essence expressed through his love of all that is important to him. Had he been allowed by these medieval clerics to do these things he would have found more peace in his mother's passing....not to mention the increadible things they would have heard in that church.
I sincerely hope the catholic church keeps pissing people off this way.

Other Comments by Naturalist1

13. Comment #211228 by Laurie Fraser on July 15, 2008 at 4:12 pm

I gave the eulogy at my father's funeral. Like your experience, Alan, his funeral was full of music and song (he had been a fine baritone, and three of his children, including me, became musicians.) It was the best funeral I've ever attended, and allowed the grieving process to be natural and normal.

I keep him alive every day, by recalling all of those memories, including the great memory of the celebration of his life at his funeral.

These lunatics deserve the strongest possible condemnation for the damage they do to the family and friends of the deceased by disallowing their ownership of the grieving.

Other Comments by Laurie Fraser

14. Comment #211233 by LaurieB on July 15, 2008 at 4:19 pm

I have kept my issue of Free Inquiry Magazine that has the cover title, "Dealing with Dying". October/November 2007. Vol 27 No. 6. It has wonderful ideas for a secular funeral including some nice readings and advice on how to not let religious people hi-jack a secular person's funeral, etc. A very useful issue indeed.

Other Comments by LaurieB

15. Comment #211240 by Opisthokont on July 15, 2008 at 4:27 pm

Wow. Yes, this is insensitive. It is disrespectful. But also, there is something telling in the concept of "celebrating a funeral".

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16. Comment #211249 by Alan Canon on July 15, 2008 at 4:47 pm

Here's a link to the Free Inquiry Magazine article, "Dealing with Dying". October/November 2007. Vol 27 No. 6., referenced above by Laurie B.

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=fi&page=dealwithdying

Other Comments by Alan Canon

17. Comment #211260 by Quine on July 15, 2008 at 5:07 pm

No problem, the friends and family just need to let the parish know that along with no music there is going to be no donation. If that catches on, the bishop will do a turn-around quite soon.

Other Comments by Quine

18. Comment #211264 by justaperson on July 15, 2008 at 5:11 pm

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of nothing. A quick cremation, no ceremony, no tears, no sappy speeches. Let those who knew me remember me as I was and get together for a drink if they wish. It won't matter to me.

Other Comments by justaperson

19. Comment #211268 by Laurie Fraser on July 15, 2008 at 5:18 pm

Wow. Yes, this is insensitive. It is disrespectful. But also, there is something telling in the concept of "celebrating a funeral".

Well, you're not actually celebrating the funeral - you're celebrating the life of the deceased. A bloody fine thing to do, and when it's done well, it is cathartic for we who are grieving. Maybe the clergy like to celebrate the "funeral" because it reinforces their lunatic beliefs about the "real" purpose of living: i.e. dying.

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20. Comment #211305 by Al420 on July 15, 2008 at 6:12 pm

How dare you try to mourn the dead, we're trying to have a funeral here!

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21. Comment #211307 by Godfree Gordon on July 15, 2008 at 6:16 pm

Alan Canon

Great post

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22. Comment #211327 by William1w1 on July 15, 2008 at 6:59 pm

It's the family's fault for having the Catholics host the event. You can't expect those crazy Christians to behave rationally.

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23. Comment #211342 by appaZ on July 15, 2008 at 8:03 pm

The stupidity of religious institutions knows no bounds.

Before my father died, he told my mother that after he went, he did not want a priest within ten miles of him . At the funeral, my elder brother held his head up and spoke of my father in a manner that only someone who truely knew him and loved him could. Not some regurgitated crap from an individual who, in life, my father thought was at best, a dickhead.

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24. Comment #211345 by Tasida on July 15, 2008 at 8:49 pm

I went to a religious funeral once for the wife of one of the professors at my college. It was creepy as hell to hear the preacher say that this wonderful woman "thirst for the blood of christ."

Every xtian service I've been to is the same: they give lip service to the wonderful character and actions of the deceased, then proceed to holy crap on all of that by saying, "none of that matters one bit- all that matters is that she accepted Jesus Christ as her lord and savior."

What disrespectful non-sense.

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25. Comment #211348 by mordacious1 on July 15, 2008 at 9:16 pm

And no crunching any frackin' crackers either.

When I go, I want my friends to party...lot's of music, lots of booze...and no religious BS.

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26. Comment #211354 by TIKI AL on July 15, 2008 at 9:46 pm

In the absense of the inquisition the Catholic Church has to get creative to show who is still in charge and all powerful.

We played Les Elgart music at my Mother's funeral.
My sister and I were in charge, so no delusional clergy were allowed in.

Other Comments by TIKI AL

27. Comment #211355 by Mbee on July 15, 2008 at 9:48 pm

I understand that the second most popular song played at funerals is 'look on the brighter side of life' by the monty python troupe. This doesn't seem to fit into what the catholics want!

Other Comments by Mbee

28. Comment #211357 by mewletter on July 15, 2008 at 9:55 pm

Which is why I hardly attend funerals anymore; to avoid cretins. And we all know what cretin originally meant... heh heh heh.

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29. Comment #211358 by Andy_Allen on July 15, 2008 at 9:56 pm

Alan Canon, in Comment #211201, nails my situation exactly; and far more eloquently than I could possibly have done. Great post, thanks.

I'm going to make sure that all my family and friends know this is the way I want to be sent off - and will endeavor to ensure the same for them.

Andy

Other Comments by Andy_Allen

30. Comment #211367 by 8teist on July 15, 2008 at 10:48 pm

Dump your religion then ,problem solved.Save yourself a shitload of cash ,sleep in on a sunday morn,pretty fucking easy really.

Shit, what am I doing ? I should be selling this advice.

Other Comments by 8teist

31. Comment #211373 by somersetsimon on July 15, 2008 at 11:08 pm

I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who choose to belong to an irrational organization, then complain when it behaves irrationally.

Have a non-religious funeral, then do whatever you want.

nobody wanted to appear disrespectful to the clergy

I didn't realise that the purpose of a funeral was to pay respect to the clergy.

Other Comments by somersetsimon

32. Comment #211380 by Deborah on July 15, 2008 at 11:54 pm

At my brother's funeral we played a couple of songs by Kiss. Another song was by the Eagles. We wanted to celebrate 'his' life with the music he loved. Family and friends commented after the funeral that it meant so much to them to hear Kiss and the personal touch it had on my brother's life. Funerals are not usually known to be 'enjoyable' but we were giving my brother a send off he would be proud of. I'm sure his feet were tapping to the songs as they played! Before I go, I am making a CD of the music and songs to play at my funeral - songs that are personal and inspiring to 'me' and 'my' life. I am not religious anymore and no longer fear death and want to go out the way 'I' want to go. A celebration of life, love and happiness!

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33. Comment #211381 by King of NH on July 15, 2008 at 11:58 pm

Sad, sad, sad

Religion pays such lip service to being there to comfort and console in times of need. Now, they want to hit people when they're down because their imaginary god tells them to. They just lost a family member. Let them mourn.

Message to the Bishops: There is no god, none. Your rules are stupid and they hurt people. Stop playing games and get a real job.

Other Comments by King of NH

34. Comment #211382 by epeeist on July 16, 2008 at 12:00 am

Comment #211185 by skeptictank

The priest was completely out of line, trying to use his untimely death for recruiting new catholics. He said things like "Nick was a good catholic, and its not too late for you all to be saved from the tortures of hell as he was".

Comment #211199 by Ian Bamlett

Are you serious?

I am sure he is absolutely serious.

I went to the funeral of my aunt, a devout catholic, last year. The priest behaved in exactly the way that skeptictank described. He read a standard eulogy in which it was obvious he was simply saying my aunt's name when the script had say name here in it.

I didn't leave since I didn't want to upset my relatives but to say I was furious would be and understatement.

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35. Comment #211401 by dlitt on July 16, 2008 at 12:48 am

I was asked to video record a friend's wedding at a Catholic Church many years ago and was told by the Priest it wasn't permitted. The groom told the Priest to allow it or the wedding would resume across the street at the Protestant Church.

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36. Comment #211404 by CraigB on July 16, 2008 at 12:56 am

This is the price you have to pay for believing in hocus-pocus. I find it difficult to have sympathy - they know the rules.

Other Comments by CraigB

37. Comment #211419 by Shuggy on July 16, 2008 at 1:55 am

A friend of mine committed suicide. He was estranged from his religious family, but they took him back for the funeral and the unctious minister (it was some peculiar sect) talked about him "passing away" and "underneath are the Everlasting Arms" etc. (As people came in they played "Light My Fire" - he was to be cremated - and a Trekkie friend finished by making the \// sign and saying "Live long and prosper.") I was the only one to refer to his manner of death and tell him* how angry I was at him for doing that to us. I'm proud to say that when I finished there wasn't a dry eye in the house.

*A figure of speech (apostrophe) common at the most atheist of funerals.

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38. Comment #211421 by gcdavis on July 16, 2008 at 2:01 am

Nine years ago I was faced with the horror that every parent dreads, the death of my son (aged 28). His mother had been an alcoholic and I had gained legal custody of him when he was just five, his mother eventually died, I had remarried and have three other children. My son had drug problems perhaps not surprising as his early life had been chaotic to say the least and he had a criminal conviction for dealing. Everyone in my family knows my views about god but I didn't really know how my son felt about it even though we had become much closer since he had found what he really wanted to do with his life (furniture design and cabinet making) and had moved away from the drug culture.

I initially considered a humanist funeral but then had second thoughts as this would be imposing my views at the possible expense of his wider family and friends. I knew the vicar of our 300 year old local church and discussed it with him. He was happy for me to play a major role in the funeral and knowing my views he respected my desire for the "service" to have only the lightest religious touch.

In the intervening period both my mother and step-father have died and their funerals were conducted on the same basis. I imagine this sort of compromise is not available to many atheists which is a pity as an old church is a much nicer venue than a room in a hotel or a community centre.

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39. Comment #211428 by Creeping Jesus on July 16, 2008 at 2:14 am

Ha! This is like something out of Father Ted isn't it?

I once sat through a funeral where the paid liar in the pulpit actually told the congregation that our dead friend was very likely burning in hell because of the godless company he'd kept.

Another time the priest hadn't even bothered to find out the name of my wife's uncle and referred to him throughout the ceremony as "the deceased".

I'm sorry if this appears bigoted or anything but I think clergy are parasitic scum who feed off people's vulnerability. I'd have them all prosecuted for fraud and put out of business if they couldn't prove they weren't telling lies.

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40. Comment #211431 by irate_atheist on July 16, 2008 at 2:32 am

34. Comment #211382 by epeeist -

I had a similar experience at a CofE funeral for my uncle last year. He didn't believe their bullshit in the first place.

I just sat in the pew thinking 'Cunt'.

The thing is, they mean well, they really do. That's what's most disturbing in my view.

Other Comments by irate_atheist

41. Comment #211434 by Corylus on July 16, 2008 at 2:40 am

This part is telling...

The first rumblings in this funeral controversy go back to 2000 when the Archbishop of Armagh, Sean Brady, deplored "over the top" eulogies "going on for ever" as "unnecessary duplication" of the more formal aspects of the Catholic rite.
(My emphasis)

Is this really anything to do with keeping inappropriate stuff away from a religious ceremony? Sounds more like a bunch of lazy priests using religion as an excuse to cut down their hours.

I can understand how performing a funeral would not be a favourite task for a priest - it is always awful to see people upset. However, to deny people something that can make them smile and laugh (as well as cry) at the ceremony seems to be selfishness of the highest order.

Other Comments by Corylus

42. Comment #211435 by brainsys on July 16, 2008 at 2:43 am

On the positive side - had our Royal Family been Catholic we would have been spared Elton trying to sing "Candle in the Wind"

Other Comments by brainsys

43. Comment #211440 by Tyler Durden on July 16, 2008 at 2:53 am

Comment #211428 by Creeping Jesus

I'm sorry if this appears bigoted or anything but I think clergy are parasitic scum who feed off people's vulnerability. I'd have them all prosecuted for fraud and put out of business if they couldn't prove they weren't telling lies.

But how do you really feel :-)

Other Comments by Tyler Durden

44. Comment #211487 by rod-the-farmer on July 16, 2008 at 4:36 am

My orders for MY funeral are that at the beginning, attendees will be told the rules..."No priests permitted inside. No one is allowed to pray out loud during the ceremony. Anyone found praying out loud will be forcibly removed from the room, by friends & family who will literally kick your ass. You want to pray out loud ? Do so outside." And that includes some members of my immediate family, who may indeed wish to pray for me.

I agree with the previous comments that a church which imposes rules as described is entering a death spiral. No donations indeed. Quote Carlin ON..."God is all powerful, all-knowing, all wise. But God needs MONEY"....quote Carlin OFF.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

Other Comments by rod-the-farmer

45. Comment #211513 by Jamie V on July 16, 2008 at 5:16 am

I loathe the false comfort of religious funerals, with the priest mouthing empty promises about the deceased's soul being received by God. It is a great temptation to stand up and shout 'Evidence, please!' Humanist funerals are much more moving and uplifting, because they are rooted in reality. We know we will never see the dead person again, so we are free to weep, if we wish, and/or rejoice in having had the privilege of knowing him or her in life. There is no pretence that the person somehow continues to exist somewhere else. And usually the music is better, too. No ghastly, dirge-like hymns, with the congregation battling it out with the organist to see who finishes first (or last).

I went to my grandmother's funeral earlier this year, and all the religious stuff passed me by completely. I chatted with the vicar in the pub afterwards, and I got very close to starting a debate with him, but he was a nice guy and it wasn't the time or place for it.

He told me that a few years ago (and before he went into the church), his mother dropped down dead on the morning of his father's funeral. I wanted to ask him why he felt a loving god would allow something like that to happen, but I didn't.

None of the religious aspects of my grandmother's funeral provided me with the slightest comfort. I also didn't receive any indication of why a loving god would allow her to become blind, deaf and virtually immobile in her later years, but leave her mentally capable and therefore trapped in her body. She was 100 when she passed away. Her wish had been to be found in her garden, face down in her flowerbed. The lord of mercy decreed she died in hospital after spending two weeks in a coma.

She was the nicest person you could hope to meet. She was loved by friends, family and neighbours. She would have died peacefully at home a few years previously if there was any justice. This is yet another reason why I know there is no god.

"His love passeth all understanding"? Yeah - some love...

Other Comments by Jamie V

46. Comment #211525 by 35bluejacket on July 16, 2008 at 5:30 am

My brother minister was appaled by me quoting E. O. Wilson's "Religion is very adaptive". Our discussion was about evolution. He is so lost in his dogma he has forgotten where his paycheck comes from. The change is coming.

Other Comments by 35bluejacket

47. Comment #211526 by TIKI AL on July 16, 2008 at 5:32 am

Jamie: When the vicar starts with the "religious aspects" of the funeral, it helps if you silently sing "la la la, la la la" at the top of your brain.

Other Comments by TIKI AL

48. Comment #211528 by brainsys on July 16, 2008 at 5:35 am

Oh dear - I do like going to church funerals. And I'm getting to quite a few lately. Much better than the quick & clinical crematorium job.

As most of my (deceased) friends were atheists one of the joys is waiting for the vicar to create a wonderful euphamism to describe the deceased, "not a frequent attender ...", "someone who found faith difficult ..."

But the key part is the eulogy. Rarely have I not discovered a completely hidden side to my friend. And it is a great place to get together & sing a song/hymn together. For the believers it does add comfort. It may be false but IMHO it is not the moment to say to the bereaved that it is all a load of bull. The majority of congregation (here in the UK) are skeptics/unbelievers anyway and hear/say the words which may have great resonance "ashes to ashes..." without having to swallow the magic bits.

The issue is that EVERYBODY who loved the deceased can join together to remember the life. The church has to suffer by being nice to atheists (I've never had 'going to hell' reference when a few of my friends would surely have booked such a place were it available). We have to suffer by being nice and polite to the vicar. Most are indeed very nice. That's apart from believing in magic. I've never understood why.

No, I'm afraid most churches I know do the despatch thing rather well. You can enjoy it without believing it. Bit like going to a great theatre production, well it is really!

Other Comments by brainsys

49. Comment #211529 by Captain_Quirk on July 16, 2008 at 5:37 am

Hi all

I've just registered and this is my first post!

Religious funerals really bug me. The priest basically has a dictation that he reads out with a blank space to drop in the appropriate name of the deceased where needed. It feels so impersonal. I went to a friend's sister's funeral a few weeks ago and it was rather chilling to hear the priest keep blabbing on about how the son of god died, BUT THEN ROSE BACK TO LIFE 3 DAYS LATER!!! How amazing is that? He must have said it a hundred times and shivers were running down my spine to think that their parents daughter WAS NOT GOING TO RAISE FROM THE DEAD, so stop harping on how Jesus was the ultimate child cause unlike their daughter, he could die and come back as he pleases. Sheesh!

I went to a friend's father's funeral but it was all in vernacular language and I didn't understand a word. But after what I thought was the funeral part, the priest decided to take advantage of his now captive crowd. So, with the coffin in the front of the church, he stood high up ranting and raving and the only word I understood was when he shouting "Jehova!" again and again. Disgusting.

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50. Comment #211537 by TIKI AL on July 16, 2008 at 5:54 am

"You can enjoy it without believing in it." (brainsys #48)

You have inspired me to peruse the Creation Museum of Delusion and stuff some sofa change in the mechanical bucking T-Rex.

Other Comments by TIKI AL

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