Friday, July 18, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version

Calling World Conference on Dialogue a Symbol of Unity Among Different Traditions

by United Nations

Thanks to Carl H. Silverman for the link.

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs//2008/sgsm11702.doc.htm

CALLING WORLD CONFERENCE ON DIALOGUE A SYMBOL OF UNITY AMONG DIFFERENT TRADITIONS,

SECRETARY-GENERAL URGES TURNING SOLIDARITY INTO GENUINE FORCE FOR GOOD

Following is the text of UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon's message to the World Conference on Dialogue in Madrid today, 16 July:

I would like to thank the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques, King Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz al-Saud, for this welcome and timely initiative. I would also like to express my gratitude to the Spanish Government for hosting this important event.

There have been few periods in history when the need for dialogue among world religions has been greater. At a time of increasing divisions along cultural and confessional lines, faith communities have a crucial role to play in fostering mutual understanding and in promoting consensus on common values and aspirations.

It is important to note that many conflicts that appear to be rooted in religion often have their origins beyond the confines of faith. Indeed, political rivalries, territorial ambitions or competition for natural resources are fertile grounds for the emergence of violence. This unique gathering of religious leaders can help debunk the dangerous myth that religion, even when properly understood, inspires violence.

This event is itself a potent symbol of unity among different traditions. Our challenge is to see this expression of solidarity turned into a genuine force for good. Your dialogue must lead to commitments and actions. It must be a "dialogue that delivers". Towards that end, we must work together on several fronts.

First, we should reach out to young people, particularly those who feel alienated and powerless, and who, having lost faith in the future, are often vulnerable to extremist ideologies.

Second, the role of religious leaders as peacebuilders must be reinforced. From Indonesia to Sierra Leone, from Nigeria to El Salvador, from Kosovo to Sudan, religious leaders have played and continue to play a prominent role in helping to initiate dialogue between warring parties, in providing emotional and spiritual support to communities affected by conflict and in facilitating the process of reconciliation.

Third, we should do more to create platforms for engagement with religious leaders at the international level. For a number of years now, the United Nations has been strengthening and broadening its interaction with faith-based organizations. The Alliance of Civilizations, along with the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA), United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) and other United Nations bodies, have been playing an important part in this process, including by advancing new partnership initiatives and talking frankly about cross-cultural concerns.

This forum marks an important step in strengthening dialogue among world religions and in casting a different light on the role of faith communities. The United Nations will continue to support these efforts through its long-standing work to promote tolerance, to speak out against bigotry, to counter extremism and to uphold the right of all the world's people to freedom of religion, as enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Together, we can expand the scope of these initiatives, reach more and more people and faiths, heal the divisions that threaten our societies and build a more secure and stable world.

Thank you for your commitment and please accept my best wishes for a successful Conference.

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1. Comment #213417 by Bruno on July 18, 2008 at 12:41 pm

"This unique gathering of religious leaders can help debunk the dangerous myth that religion, even when properly understood, inspires violence."

Myth?

Other Comments by Bruno

2. Comment #213432 by thewhitepearl on July 18, 2008 at 12:58 pm

I don't understand this "gathering" and "coming together" of religions. They all have a very deluded common goal and belief...But they go about it in different ways...

Keep your enemies closer sort of deal?

Other Comments by thewhitepearl

3. Comment #213439 by satanhimself1955 on July 18, 2008 at 1:02 pm

This should be great fodder for Harris, Hitchens, Condell, and RD. I hope they each issue a response to this and to the blather of "King Abullah" who really delivers a somewhat mixed message:

07/16/2008
King Abdullah opening remarks at World Conference on Dialogue
Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz opening remarks at the World Conference on Dialogue, Madrid, Spain, June 16

In the name of God, most merciful, most compassionate.

Praise be to God Almighty, who revealed in his holy book: "O mankind! We have created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other. Verily the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you."

And peace and blessings be upon our Prophet Mohammed and on all the prophets and messengers.

Your Majesty, my friend, Juan Carlos, King of Spain:

Distinguished friends:

I greet you, and I thank you for responding to our invitation to this dialogue. I appreciate the efforts you are making in the service of humanity. I extend my deep appreciation to my friend, His Majesty King Juan Carlos, and the Kingdom of Spain and its friendly people for welcoming the convening of this conference on their land, a land that has a historic and civilized heritage among the followers of religions, and which has witnessed coexistence between people of differing ethnicities and religions and cultures, and contributed, with other civilizations, to the advancement of humanity.

Dear friends:

I came to you from the place dearest to the hearts of all Muslims, the land of the Two Holy Mosques, bearing with me a message from the Islamic world (Ummah), representing its scholars and thinkers who recently met in the confines of the House of God. This message declares that Islam is a religion of moderation and tolerance; a message that calls for constructive dialogue among followers of religions; a message that promises to open a new page for humanity in which â€" God willing â€" concord will replace conflict.

Dear friends:

We all believe in one God, who sent messengers for the good of humanity in this world and the hereafter. His will, praise be to Him, was that people should differ in their faiths. If the Almighty had so desired, all mankind would have shared the same religion. We are meeting today to affirm that the religions that God Almighty desired for the happiness of man should be a means to ensure that happiness.

It is therefore incumbent upon us to declare to the world that difference must not lead to conflict and confrontation, and to state that the tragedies that have occurred in human history were not attributable to religion, but were the result of extremism with which some adherents of every divinely revealed religion, and of every political ideology, have been afflicted.

Mankind is suffering today from a loss of values and conceptual confusion, and is passing through a critical phase which, in spite of all the scientific progress, is witnessing a proliferation of crime, an increase in terrorism, the disintegration of the family, subversion of the minds of the young by drug abuse, exploitation of the poor by the strong, and odious racist tendencies. This is all a consequence of the spiritual void from which people suffer when they forget God, and God causes them to forget themselves. There is no solution for us other than to agree on a united approach, through dialogue among religions and civilizations.

Dear friends:

Most of the past dialogues have failed because they have deteriorated into mutual recrimination focusing on and exaggerating differences in a sterile endeavor that exacerbated rather than mitigated tensions, or because they attempted to fuse religions and creeds on the pretext of bringing them closer together. This is likewise a fruitless effort, since the adherents of every religion are deeply convinced in their faith, and will not accept any alternative thereto. If we wish this historic meeting to succeed, we must focus on the common denominators that unite us, namely, deep faith in God, noble principles, and lofty moral values, which constitute the essence of religion.

Dear friends:

Man could be the cause of the destruction of this planet and everything in it. He is also capable of turning it into an oasis of peace and tranquility in which adherents of religions, creeds and philosophies could co-exist, and in which people could cooperate with each other in a respectful manner, and address problems through dialogue rather than violence.

Man is also capable â€" by the grace of God â€" of vanquishing hatred through love, and bigotry through tolerance, thereby enabling all mankind to enjoy the dignity that the Almighty has bestowed upon all of them.

Dear friends:

Let our dialogue be a triumph of belief over disbelief, of virtue over vice, of justice over iniquity, of peace over conflicts and wars, and of human brotherhood over racism.

Thus, with God we began, and through Him we seek assistance. I offer you my sincere greetings and appreciation.

Thank you and peace be upon you.

Other Comments by satanhimself1955

4. Comment #213441 by Apathy personified on July 18, 2008 at 1:04 pm

Interesting ... i've always thought that every religion worked on the assumption that 'we are right, the rest are wrong' - that seems like a pretty intractable situation.
However, if the talks are, 'We agree to disagree and we won't attack you, if you don't attack us' then i guess it's worth it, for now anyway.

This seems to be treating religions like cultural groups - not belief systems - i know they are both but the UN and all other bodies need to be openly honest and say that 'These are non commutable operators here, there is guarenteed to be issues' instead of pretending it's solely down to misunderstanding each other.

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5. Comment #213443 by Am I Evil? on July 18, 2008 at 1:06 pm

"Let our dialogue be a triumph of belief over disbelief..."

Why make a big deal out of that? Just say goddidit... sorted.

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6. Comment #213444 by TIKI AL on July 18, 2008 at 1:06 pm

First uniting order of business is the vote to round up all the atheists and place them in religious camps until they can also see the fear, superstitions, and darkness.

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7. Comment #213475 by nattyadams on July 18, 2008 at 1:28 pm

"Dear friends:

We all believe in one God"

well, either the Hindus weren't invited or someone decided to ignore them.

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8. Comment #213481 by Vanitas on July 18, 2008 at 1:32 pm

"There have been few periods in history when the need for dialogue among world religions has been greater. At a time of increasing divisions along cultural and confessional lines..."

Because back in the day, people of all religions were so goddamn united.
Ah, those were the days when solidarity flowed among humans like the blood of some crazy species in a strange and distant planet, whose factions were constantly at war with each other over whose was the correct version of an imaginary friend.

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9. Comment #213487 by sidelined on July 18, 2008 at 1:36 pm

And so it begins, the slow, relentless tread of reason shining a light into the darkness as the creatures therein set aside their differences while fleeing for the dark corners remaining.

You can almost hear the pieces of superstition starting to crack and fall away.

Other Comments by sidelined

10. Comment #213493 by rod-the-farmer on July 18, 2008 at 1:49 pm

Ban Ki-Moon says

debunk the dangerous myth that religion, even when properly understood, inspires violence.

Are we to interpret from this that it is only improperly understood religion that leads to violence ? Ok. Interesting claim. Do you have any evidence to support this ? And your plans to deal with this, if true, are....?

King Abdullah says (according to a previous comment, the accuracy of which I am trusting in)

It is therefore incumbent upon us to declare to the world that difference must not lead to conflict and confrontation, and to state that the tragedies that have occurred in human history were not attributable to religion, but were the result of extremism with which some adherents of every divinely revealed religion, and of every political ideology, have been afflicted.

Again, OK. YOUR plans to deal with this "extremism" are....? There is a common perception (perhaps not entirely accurate) in the west that Islam is a violent religion, since many/most of the actions causing death to innocent civilians in recent years, are done by people claiming to be devout muslims.

Dear King

How about getting all the islamic scholars in your country to throw out these violent individuals, and those who train and exhort them to acts of v iolence, to advise the world wide Ummah that they are not to be tolerated, that Islam is a religion of peace, and any country which harbours them will find any and all its' citizens banned from pilgrimage to Saudia Arabia. That would help, and is a relatively painless way to help ensure compliance. I await your response, yours truly, a rationalist who has so far avoided extremism and/or violence in my faith (or lack thereof).

Other Comments by rod-the-farmer

11. Comment #213499 by neptunescovenent on July 18, 2008 at 1:58 pm

Out of this I can only foresee that religion will disappear largely, and only one ideal will remain - the soft, juicy center of god belief itself. Only then will books like the God Delusion make an impact, and will need to be republished under a humanist banner, which many of their mentality (needy) are likely to find a succulent alternative, and then - we feed them meatballs,
and

THEY ARE CONVERTS TO THE GLORIOUS FSM!

Ahh, yes, now I see the True Piratical Thinking lying behind that Noodly Exterior. Let the stockpiling of eyepatches begin, so our new converts shall not be dressed immodestly before their Master.

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12. Comment #213505 by Spinoza on July 18, 2008 at 2:05 pm

Man is also capable Ã¢â‚¬" by the grace of God Ã¢â‚¬" of vanquishing hatred through love, and bigotry through tolerance, thereby enabling all mankind to enjoy the dignity that the Almighty has bestowed upon all of them.

Spinoza said very nearly the exact same thing 350 years ago... but he didn't need to invoke "the grace of God" or "the dignity that the Almighty has bestowed upon all of them" to do it.

God has nothing whatsoever to do with the power of stronger emotions in an opposing direction to vanquish weaker emotions.

Every time I hear someone say "by the grace of God" or "Insh'Allah", all I can think of is that what they REALLY mean is "Fuck, I really hope this works!"

So why don't they just fucking SAY that, instead of deferring responsibility for their successes (oh, but never their failures) onto "God".

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13. Comment #213510 by LaTomate on July 18, 2008 at 2:08 pm

#3 - all of that is coming from the leader of one of the most vile, repressive, cruel, masochistic, antisemitic, racist, misogynistic, hypocritical and backwards nations on this planet.

Few surpass their level of horridness. And none have that much wealth.

What he says is totally irrelevant.

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14. Comment #213517 by Ian Bamlett on July 18, 2008 at 2:15 pm

What a shame that unique gathering wasn't subject to a unique fissure in the earth.

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15. Comment #213519 by irate_atheist on July 18, 2008 at 2:17 pm

These fucking idiots are why humanity will not outlive this century.

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16. Comment #213527 by HitbLade on July 18, 2008 at 2:23 pm

the failures were god's will too. it wasn't meant to be.

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17. Comment #213543 by Eric Blair on July 18, 2008 at 2:36 pm

The United Nations will continue to support these efforts through its long-standing work to promote tolerance, to speak out against bigotry, to counter extremism and to uphold the right of all the world's people to freedom of religion, as enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Together, we can expand the scope of these initiatives, reach more and more people and faiths, heal the divisions that threaten our societies and build a more secure and stable world.

OK, allowing for the usual orneriness about the fact that religion still exists, which particular objective do people here disagree with?

EB

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18. Comment #213553 by phil rimmer on July 18, 2008 at 2:48 pm

Eric

OK, allowing for the usual orneriness about the fact that religion still exists, which particular objective do people here disagree with?

What I passionately object to is a glaring omission from the statement. In this, for instance-

It is important to note that many conflicts that appear to be rooted in religion often have their origins beyond the confines of faith. Indeed, political rivalries, territorial ambitions or competition for natural resources are fertile grounds for the emergence of violence. This unique gathering of religious leaders can help debunk the dangerous myth that religion, even when properly understood, inspires violence.

there is the glaring omission to identify the substantial political ambitions inherent in a lot of religious faith. Until we can be honest about this fact, there will only be a fatuous papering over of cracks.

This is a dishonest waste of time.

EDIT I'm sorry, I've got it entirely wrong. It is not an omission. It is a deliberate attempt to conceal this obvious truth.

Until we can call POLITICS when we see it, proper debate can never be enjoined.

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19. Comment #213563 by Border Collie on July 18, 2008 at 3:04 pm

Hello? Pouring gasoline on a fire doesn't put the fire out. Religion IS the problem. More of it won't help. Or, maybe it's just me; maybe I'm delusional. Where did I ever get the idea that religion inspires violence? King Abdulla's speech sounds like one of those really bad Nigerian phishing spams I get all the time that promise riches for a small investment from my bank account.

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20. Comment #213597 by Mitchell Gilks on July 18, 2008 at 4:25 pm

12. Comment #213505 by Spinoza

instead of deferring responsibility for their successes (oh, but never their failures) onto "God".

Well if they did that, Satan would be out of a job. Though blaming Satan is a lot like blaming the poison instead of the posioner.

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21. Comment #213629 by PristinePanda on July 18, 2008 at 5:17 pm

These fucking idiots are why humanity won't outlive this century

Exactly what I was thinking. Whether there is intelligent life on this planet or not is debatable. Perhaps it's a tendency of evolved sentience in our universe to devise a religion that it, as a species, can never quite throw off and ends up destroying it.

The probability of a species developing and/or being unable to outgrow a religion should perhaps be added to the Drake equation.

btw, irate atheist, your avatar looks more like an irate Pentecostal minister to me - in fact, it reminds me a lot of that Eli Sunday in There Will Be Blood. ;O Is it a picture of you?

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22. Comment #213634 by Dhamma on July 18, 2008 at 5:35 pm

The United Nations will continue to support these efforts through its long-standing work to promote tolerance.

If it only were as easy as that. Tolerance is a virtue, but only to a certain degree. Religions are not tolerant towards each other, and frankly, I don't see how they could be. In their essence they're intolerant towards each others in the sense that One is right whereas the others are blatantly wrong.

It's in the foundation of a religion not to be tolerant to other beliefs, and therefore I can't see how we ever will achieve this "goal".

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23. Comment #213640 by Szymanowski on July 18, 2008 at 5:44 pm

The UN is a joke. See human rights enforcement [or lack thereof] in member states...

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24. Comment #213674 by Lucas on July 18, 2008 at 6:48 pm

Abdullah sounds like an arrogant prick speaking down to everyone else. Ki-moon sounds like a coward. There are plenty of platitudes to agree with in what both of them say, sure, but I warn you all now that we have the makings of maybe our biggest foe yet. Imagine all the religions ganged up together on us, while insisting they promote tolerance and peace. Does anyone trust those who can be so deluded about reality to even recognize, much less cop to it, when they are being hypocritical?

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25. Comment #213702 by GoodbyeGodNZ on July 18, 2008 at 7:38 pm

I just love these interfaith events which are happening with great regularity around the world right now.

These are clear signals that the various religions and denominations are realising, recognising and acknowledging that they are weakening and loosing their grip. They are seeking to bolster up their strength as faith heads by moving closer to groups who were previously their arch rivals in times of strength and confidence.

There is no way that any religions, denominations or churches would go seeking alliances with rival believers unless they were feeling really threatened in respect to their survival.

To me this is a clear sign that they're on the run!

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26. Comment #213794 by utelme on July 18, 2008 at 10:46 pm

All these Godbotherers, joined penis to anus with hardly a vagina amongst them. Jeez I detest them. They obviously realise that they're in trouble. If only they'd immolate themselves like the Buddhists do. Ahh, I could toast some marshmallows in that bonfire!

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27. Comment #213798 by irate_atheist on July 18, 2008 at 11:47 pm

21. Comment #213629 by PristinePanda -

btw, irate atheist, your avatar looks more like an irate Pentecostal minister to me - in fact, it reminds me a lot of that Eli Sunday in There Will Be Blood. ;O Is it a picture of you?

Er. Not quite a picture of me. Not me at all, in fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_Dougal_McGuire

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28. Comment #213883 by Henri Bergson on July 19, 2008 at 7:12 am

Another nail in the UN's coffin.

Other Comments by Henri Bergson

29. Comment #214059 by JanChan on July 19, 2008 at 12:33 pm

First, we should reach out to young people, particularly those who feel alienated and powerless, and who, having lost faith in the future, are often vulnerable to extremist ideologies.

Wait does this extremist ideologies mean atheism? Because I know people who have a lot of faith in the future will start doing crazy stuff, especially for the ones with 72 virgins.

Nooo, this is all a plot by the UN to suppress atheism!

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30. Comment #214070 by Eric Blair on July 19, 2008 at 12:58 pm

While I don't for a moment expect this conference will actually do very much, I don't see what's inherently harmful in a bunch of religious groups getting together to support what are essentially securalist principles.

The first step toward a secular society, after all, is to guarantee freedom of religion, as in the United States' First Amendment.

The fact that these guys are meeting and not fighting each other offers some cause for hope.

As for the "debunking of the myth that religion causes violence," I think there's room here for disagreement and counter-arguments. I have no problem with them putting forward arguments based on evidence.

EB

Other Comments by Eric Blair

31. Comment #214119 by ridelo on July 19, 2008 at 3:51 pm

Let all the representatives of all the religions come together and let them start to peel off all aspects wherein they differ. Eventually they will end up with nothing else then... atheism and science.

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32. Comment #214216 by beanson on July 20, 2008 at 1:39 am

Ban Ki-moon say he wants "to uphold the right of all the world's people to freedom of religion"...

...what about the right of freedom from religion?

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33. Comment #214221 by Vaal on July 20, 2008 at 1:57 am

I wonder if King Abdullah was driven to the conference by a woman?

Odd that he doesn't see fit to include a huge part of the worlds population in this conference, the atheists/humanists whose societies are far more tolerant and liberal than his own so called model in Saudi Arabia. No invitation to Professor Dawkins?

Where's the Jedi contingent then?

32. Comment #214216 by beanson

what about the right of freedom from religion?

EXACTLY! This should be bought up EVERY time he opens his mouth. Of course, we shall then see that it is anathema to everything he believes in, as it is apostacy. Until the slavery of Islam formally and legally allows people to have freedom FROM religion, then it should be banned in any civilized society.

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34. Comment #214352 by Nova on July 20, 2008 at 9:43 am

It's ironic he thanks the king of Saudi Arabia at the beginning and then goes on to bleat that religion is peaceful. As we speak school children in Saudi Arabia are being taught that the crusades never ended and that the whole world is against Saudi Arabia. satanhimself1955 posted a speech by the king of Saudi Arabia which shows what a lying shit he is. He goes to Spain where he says all faiths must live in harmony then he goes home where he rules over the land where the crusades never ended.

Ban Ki-moon:

This forum marks an important step in strengthening dialogue among world religions and in casting a different light on the role of faith communities. The United Nations will continue to support these efforts through its long-standing work to promote tolerance, to speak out against bigotry, to counter extremism and to uphold the right of all the world's people to freedom of religion, as enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

More epic irony from this idiot. Muslims have twice bullshited the Declaration of Human Rights. First they made the guardian of free speech the guardian of religious sensitivity then they only accepted an edited Declaration of Human Rights that suited their own ends - allowing them to continue being evil bullying brutes and yet still have thumbs up from the UN that they're upholding Human Rights.

JanChan:

Nooo, this is all a plot by the UN to suppress atheism!

Basically, yes. The UN was a stupid useless idea originally and it's a stupid useless organization now. People should have given up on the whole world club idea as soon as the League of Nations couldn't do shit to stop the Second World War. People just have too many different aims for there to every be world unity through a club. Better to keep agreements with treaties and smaller clubs. It isn't an overstatement to say that the UN is an enemy of rationalism.

sidelined:

And so it begins, the slow, relentless tread of reason shining a light into the darkness as the creatures therein set aside their differences while fleeing for the dark corners remaining.

Indeed. It was a while back there was an article on this site about a imam in Saudi Arabia calling for a conference between all monotheists. One of the orders of business was the rise of atheism, something which he said they should all fear, I sentiment with which I agree.

Other Comments by Nova

35. Comment #214817 by utelme on July 20, 2008 at 11:48 pm

Indeed. It was a while back there was an article on this site about a imam in Saudi Arabia calling for a conference between all monotheists. One of the orders of business was the rise of atheism, something which he said they should all fear, I sentiment with which I agree

Call me cynical, but I've always believed that the main reason for these monotheistic councils is not for peace in the world but to cement their hold on people's minds. The brothers in blood, torture and sadism are worried. I sincerely hope they have cause to be.

Other Comments by utelme

36. Comment #214848 by suffolkthinker on July 21, 2008 at 1:01 am

These all faith back slapping events really make me sick. I just want SOMEONE there at a major forum to ask each delegate which of the other delegates they believe are going to hell and why. Although I suspect no-one would give the honest answer or would just prevaricate and avoid the question but I would still like to see them squirm.

How can they show "Unity" when they beleive totally mutually exclusive things?

Other Comments by suffolkthinker

37. Comment #214941 by Carl S. Richardson on July 21, 2008 at 5:05 am

Abdullah also recently stated that all religions must unite and "vanquish" atheism.

What a loving and inclusive message...

Other Comments by Carl S. Richardson

38. Comment #215082 by carloshguzman on July 21, 2008 at 8:47 am

Well if they actually feel that they must unite to defeat non believers that means that our common efforts to spread reason are becoming very effective.

Anyway the only way for the different religions to cease violence and be united is if they acknowledge
the falsehood of their own beliefs.

Other Comments by carloshguzman

39. Comment #215091 by DamnDirtyApe on July 21, 2008 at 8:57 am

Indeed, they must all band together in the spirit of common understanding to crush their enemy - the spirit of common understanding!

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40. Comment #215245 by nalfeshnee on July 21, 2008 at 2:31 pm

King Abdulla's speech sounds like one of those really bad Nigerian phishing spams I get all the time that promise riches for a small investment from my bank account.