Thursday, July 24, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version

Red hot enlightenment led me to believe in one fewer god

by The Age

Thanks to Linda Ward Selbie for the link.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/red-hot-enlightenment-led-me-to-believe-in-one-fewer-god-20080722-3jas.html

Red hot enlightenment led me to believe in one fewer god

Catherine Deveny

Believe what you will, but don't expect me to stop prodding you about why you're religious.

WASN'T it hilarious how World Youth Day was an attempt to make Catholicism appear all modern and trendy, but what it achieved was to highlight how deluded and anachronistic the religion is?

The cavernous gap between the fresh-faced young teenagers and the old blokes in frocks and party hats was never more apparent than when the words "pilgrim" and "texting" were used in the same sentence. Repeatedly.

I had to laugh when I heard that "Ratzinger Rules" had been spray-painted on the Hyde Park War Memorial. And when I saw pilgrims chanting, "Jesus! Jesus! Jesus! Oi! Oi! Oi!" I can't help wondering how the teenage pilgrims coped with their hormones and no condoms and what the consequences will be in a few weeks' time.

The fusion of wild youth and religious rapture is a complicated reality. A complicated reality I assume was responsible for the GOD ROCKS! graffiti I saw on an old stone church yesterday.

I don't give a stuff what people believe in, but it won't stop me poking at it or prodding it. Why should religion be any exemption? Telling me I'm going to hell won't bother me because I have the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the Invisible Pink Unicorn and Bertrand Russell's Teapot in my heart. Google them if you are in the market for some red hot enlightenment.

Over the past couple of weeks Catholic-bashing has been elevated to the level of an extreme sport. Put your hand down at the back there, I'm allowed to. I spent every Sunday for the first 18 years of my life sitting in a medieval torture chamber listening to a bloke bang on about his imaginary friend who did magic tricks. Then the next 20 years massaging, editing and pruning the brainwashing into something that fit until suddenly I woke up one day and realised I was an atheist.

I wasn't searching for anything. I wasn't dabbling or questioning. I wasn't having any kind of spiritual breakdown. I just opened my eyes one day, looked around and realised that I had once been standing in a house and one by one the walls had collapsed and there was no longer a house there. I was standing out in the open. It was very liberating.

Funny though. For a while I would go to pray and then remind myself that I didn't believe. These days I send out wishes. I know, just as crazy.

I question some of my progressive, believing mates about if they believe in Noah's ark, the Immaculate Conception, Adam and Eve, the Resurrection, even heaven, and they squirm a little and try to change the subject. They get vague, defensive and then start muttering something about faith and mystery and a power of love that unites us all.

Sure, it would be easy to torture them, but they're adults and it's their life. I just can't see why it's so difficult to have a rigorous discussion about it. I feel no need to convert them. I just want them to know that if you are brave enough to place your hand through the invisible electric fence there's a bigger world beyond.

It's been a revelation to me a year since my "epiphany". I feel as if I'm walking through life with the blinkers off. Suddenly all the religious mumbo-jumbo jumps out as so bonkers. Wearing certain things, eating certain things, mumbling certain things at certain times so some imaginary friend will let you into a club in the sky when you die. I want to do my living now, thanks. I'm not afraid of dying. I'm afraid of never having lived.

There is a school of thought that suggests atheists should not call themselves atheists but just say we apply rational thought to everything and religion is no exception.

As Sam Harris, author of The End Of Faith, puts it, "I think that 'atheist' is a term that we do not need, in the same way that we don't need a word for someone who rejects astrology.

"We simply do not call people 'non-astrologers'. All we need are words like 'reason' and 'evidence' and 'common sense' and 'bullshit' to put astrologers in their place, and so it could be with religion."

I don't care what people believe in, but I do care that religion impacts on political discourse, public policy and that it stunts the ability of people to think for themselves and question. And that it kills people and causes suffering. But most of all I care that the invisible electric fences that are wired in the minds of children brainwashed by religion are difficult to remove. And impossible if you don't even know they're there.

A quote attributed to Stephen F. Robert sums it up for me: "We are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

Peace be with you.

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1. Comment #217488 by NewSkeptic on July 24, 2008 at 11:43 am

Wish I'd volunteered this article! ;-)

(The reaction garnered by the article, by readers who wrote into the Op-Ed section, was one for, one against and one unclear; so a modest reaction, but a reaction at least.)

I'm interested in the quote from Stephen F. Robert. It is similar to one of Richard's statements (video and print); I wonder who coined it first? (Not that it really matters. What does matter is that the word - if you'll forgive the expression - is broadcast, and then those who want to start thinking, can.)

Thanks Linda.

Kind Regards, Skeptic.

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2. Comment #217491 by Jiten on July 24, 2008 at 11:44 am

As Sam Harris, author of The End Of Faith, puts it, "I think that 'atheist' is a term that we do not need, in the same way that we don't need a word for someone who rejects astrology.

Well yes, but what we are not faced with is organized astrology where everybody goes round assuming that you also believe in it. Until religion becomes like astrology then we'll need a specific word for those who don't subscribe. Astrology is one's own private business. Let's hope we live to see the day when religion is the same.

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3. Comment #217512 by goobeast on July 24, 2008 at 12:00 pm

I find religious teens depressing somehow. They should be out upsetting the establishment and pissing off their parents. God Rocks? Hardly, rock is the Devil's music. Christian rock is an abomination.

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4. Comment #217533 by gcdavis on July 24, 2008 at 12:18 pm

Atheism = Liberation so why not celebrate it. Those who have emerged from repression need a word that encompasses their new found freedom and atheist is that word!

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5. Comment #217550 by Shaden on July 24, 2008 at 12:29 pm

I feel as if I'm walking through life with the blinkers off.

Is this an Aussie term or a typo? I'm used to the phrase "with the blinders off," as in a horse with blinders. I can't say that I've seen a horse with blinkers...

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6. Comment #217553 by KrisRamJ on July 24, 2008 at 12:31 pm

I'm interested in the quote from Stephen F. Robert. It is similar to one of Richard's statements (video and print); I wonder who coined it first?

I had a little search and found this:

...Yep, that's me! I am the author of the above quote which has become a bit of a popular statement throughout the net (and some in the real world too).

...I first used The Quote as a tag line for postings on the newsgroups alt.atheism and talk.atheism at some point before October 1995. I don't remember exactly when I started using it, and unfortunately lost my mailer that would have contained the archive. The earliest records that DejaNews.com have is back to 1995, and by October 1995 it apeared 'widespread' in taglines, so I must have originated it sometime before then. Most likely early 95 or late 94.

...The Quote is an original quote that came from an online debate I was having with religious people in the newsgroups. I used the a similar comparison in a debate when my opponent wondered why I ignored the evidence for god, and in return, I wondered why my debate opponent chose to ignore the evidence for Shiva, or Zeus, or any of the other possible gods.

...I then slightly refined and shortened it the next day to the 'modern' form it is now to use in a tagline. Within days, The Quote was in use by others in their taglines (I added my name as an attribute a few weeks later when people asked me if it was my original quote).

...About a month later, I made another variation of the quote that also appears sometimes: "We are all atheists, some of us just believe in fewer gods than others"... but it never quite got the popularity of the original :-)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since that time, I've occasionally ego-surfed to see how the quote has moved out around the world.

Interestingly, as the quote moved out, it seemed to become attributed to "other" Stephen Robertses. Its funny sometimes to see who people attribute the quote to.

I've also occasionally been accused of plagarism and stealing the quote from others.

I have no doubt that others have said similar things throughout time (afterall, its not like the general concept of atheism was made up by me). But I didn't know about any of the others when I first penned the quote (remember this was 94-95, there was no wikipedia or google to look things up with).

I just had the luck to put together the phrase right at the dawn of the modern Internet age. :-)

http://freelink.wildlink.com/quote_history.php

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7. Comment #217565 by KrisRamJ on July 24, 2008 at 12:40 pm

I can't say that I've seen a horse with blinkers

In Britain we call them blinkers, not blinders, so I guess the Aussies are the same...

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8. Comment #217566 by Cartomancer on July 24, 2008 at 12:41 pm

I find myself getting rather hot and flustered with all this talk of hormonally-charged, fresh-faced teenagers. If only I could attract thousands of them to worship at my feet and adore me just by wearing a pretty robe and swinging a thurible about. Must... be... strong... maintain... rational... thought...

Ahem. Well, anyway. What was I talking about again?

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9. Comment #217571 by Shaden on July 24, 2008 at 12:42 pm

KrisRamJ,

I see. Then what do you call automobile blinkers?

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10. Comment #217591 by MBC Morgan on July 24, 2008 at 12:57 pm

Shaden:

I see. Then what do you call automobile blinkers?

I'm just guessing here, but in Australia wouldn't it be something like "bajermidoos"?

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11. Comment #217592 by HourglassMemory on July 24, 2008 at 12:57 pm

Religious teenagers is something I have never actually witnessed in real life in my own life.
All of them around me are pretty irreligious.
You get the feeling that if you're religious, you sort of have to keep it to yourself, and I've witnessed people talking about someone else who was religious, but it was all done in whispers, as in "You know she started attending church? She's all lost."

Religious teenagers are alien to me. When I see them on documentaries it disturbs me. It's like there's something actually misfiring in their heads. I never had any contact with religious people, such as those who talk about me accepting Jesus and Heaven only being accessible through Chritianity and talking about being pilgrims for the good lord and whatnot. I never had that near me, believe it or not.
They really do sound crazy to me. It's not something I chose to think about them. They always sounded weird to me.

To me "religious 21st century teenagers" just seems like an oxymoron. As the wrter of the article said "It's a complicated reality" for me to grasp.
They have all of this internet/forums/tv/movies technology around them and they use it to spread their Jesus stories and myths and putting their hands on top of their hearts as they look at the atmosphere. It's weird. And, oh god, to think that some actually think a man will descened from the upper Mesosphere or something and judge sinners.
I have ALWAYS raised my eyebrows to that sort of thing.

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12. Comment #217596 by practicing atheis on July 24, 2008 at 1:00 pm

Shaden:

"I see. Then what do you call automobile blinkers? "

I believe that they are 'indicators'.

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13. Comment #217624 by ColdFusionLazarus on July 24, 2008 at 1:18 pm

I'm still not comfortable with throwing emotive words - worrying about child abuse. I do feel some concern for the kids, but I cannot stop parents being bad parents. Thankfully there are some good parents, and some of it might be inspired by their religion. There are some pretty good idealised stories about some religious figures that can inspire simple, selfless, assertive people who are doing a good, supportive job.

Although I've denied god's existence for many years, until recently I thought most christians were just pleasant people trying to emulate an idealised Jesus figure, but forgetting all the "magic" mumbo-jumbo. I thought the fundamentalists lived in America, and that Britain had sensible everyday people that were trying to accept everyone as good character. Only recently I see desperate attempts at failth healing (I do believe, I do believe), and castigation of whole groups (they're quite welcome to be good and enter heaven, but they mustn't actually do any of that dirty sexual stuff). Today we whince at the practices of witch doctors in some regions of Africa. It's absurd to see that people are so backward to believe such dangerous nonsense. But today there are many Anglicans urging each other to "really believe". Not everyone knows that these people like to speak unintelligible mumbo jumbo, predict the future and heal physical injuries with magical spirits. Some people will be shocked what is really believed by the decision makers we have put in such positions of authority!

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14. Comment #217628 by radiohead on July 24, 2008 at 1:21 pm

a wee meme or a saying we have in northern ireland is the saying over something we like "Good good good"

thats what i feel when i read this little article.

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15. Comment #217636 by rod-the-farmer on July 24, 2008 at 1:32 pm

Re Comment #217550 by Shaden

I can't say that I've seen a horse with blinkers...

I used to have a Mustang with blinkers, and a friend had a Pinto with them as well......

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16. Comment #217640 by Shaden on July 24, 2008 at 1:38 pm

MBC Morgan:

I'm just guessing here, but in Australia wouldn't it be something like "bajermidoos"?

Haha, probably. Though, the closest I've been to Australia is the Outback Steakhouse, so I wouldn't know.

practicing atheis,

Ah, indicators, that sounds right, that may even be the correct term here and are just known as blinkers.

Still doesn't make sense that's what horse blinders are called.

PS. Why doesn't this comment section have a quote button? It's the only one I can think of that doesn't.

PPS. Or a preview button? Maybe I should start my wish list for santa early this year.

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17. Comment #217648 by Border Collie on July 24, 2008 at 1:55 pm

Damn, I'm glad you guys got the blinker/blinder thing worked out. I wasn't sure if I'd be able to sleep tonight.

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18. Comment #217658 by Apathy personified on July 24, 2008 at 2:05 pm

Some kids go to space camp, some go to glastonbury, others go to a gathering of catholics to hear the pope speak.....

As i've posted before - the idea of 'god' is just a limitation we place (as a species) on our imaginations - the world is a far more interesting place because there are no supernatural elfs or whatever.
Let's hope more people can give up belief in the last god.

Edit: Grammar

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19. Comment #217665 by Dhamma on July 24, 2008 at 2:12 pm

This was a fairly interesting text. I love reading about converts, in order to understand the psychology behind it.

Really though, it could've fit in the "converts corner" instead.

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20. Comment #217692 by Krapulator on July 24, 2008 at 2:34 pm

For an even better read, check out Bill Muehlenberg's response to this article:
http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/07/23/889/

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21. Comment #217718 by David J on July 24, 2008 at 2:55 pm

goobeast (#3): Christian rock is an abomination

It's not even good instrumentally, and that's saying something because it's the instrument that drives most of the appeal to rock music (with exceptions, of course). "God rocks" is the stupidest thing I've ever read. I also hear people say "You go, god!"

Christ on a bike - I can't stand new-age-y teenage godists.

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22. Comment #217720 by Dhamma on July 24, 2008 at 2:56 pm

Crapulator:

Do you honestly, I mean HONESTLY, think there was anything of value in his "rebuttal"? Do you think preaching is a convincing method to prove religion true? By saying "Jesus has his arms open for you, how can you deny his love?" would convince anyone that there must be a god? If I would say "Jesus/Allah/Vishnu/Odin has its arms open for you, how can one deny its love", would you say that the first choice is the only reasonable? If you do, then can you tell me how we are supposed to understand that all the others are wrong?

Really, he said very much, but nothing of value.

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23. Comment #217727 by Auraboy on July 24, 2008 at 3:01 pm

Blinkers for a horse is almost certainly to do with them mimicking 'blinking' i.e closed eyelids. That's a guess. An indicator isn't really a blinking eyeball. But this conversation needs to end before we get onto trunks versus boots versus fenders versus bumpers and all that jazz.

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24. Comment #217731 by phasmagigas on July 24, 2008 at 3:04 pm

For an even better read, check out Bill Muehlenberg's response to this article:
http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2008/07/23/889/

its funny reading that, its amazing reading something from a writer that just totally assumes that god is there, is the love, tending each, everywhere!!

ugh, i feel like throwing up when i hear the word 'biblical' used as a adjective (well, i think its an adjective anyway).

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25. Comment #217741 by prolibertas on July 24, 2008 at 3:16 pm

Catholicism all 'modern and trendy'? Christian rock? Ugh.

You know that feeling, when you see someone make a fool of themselves in public, you feel embarrassed FOR them, even if they're total strangers? I feel that when seeing Christians trying to rip off secular culture and show how hip and cool they are.

It all reminds me of nerds in high school who tried to imitate the cool guys in an effort to say 'Hey I'm cool, really I am, please accept me please!'

Like those nerds, I'd respect Christians a little more if they just walked their own path unapologetically.

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26. Comment #217746 by Oystein Elgaroy on July 24, 2008 at 3:21 pm

Muehlenburg's style of arguing is quite common among his kind. For some reason he assumes that atheists know that Christianity is the one true religion (Of course it is! It is obvious!) but choose to reject it because they don't want to give up their sinful lives. Never for a second does he consider the possibility that the main reason for rejecting his religion is that there are no good reasons to think it is true.

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27. Comment #217755 by ghuckin on July 24, 2008 at 3:29 pm

Shaden
Go to http://english2american.com/
Then you don't have to take up space here that is meant for discussion of the article.

I was going to select a quote from this article that I particularly concurred with. Then I realised that I'd have to select the whole thing. It could have been me that wrote it, because the author's journey into enlightenment mirrored my own, embarked upon quite late in my life, almost exactly.
Oh, all right, I'll pick one quote

"I just opened my eyes one day, looked around and realised that I had once been standing in a house and one by one the walls had collapsed and there was no longer a house there. I was standing out in the open. It was very liberating."

That was me two years ago.

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28. Comment #217756 by DeepFritz on July 24, 2008 at 3:31 pm

Catherine Deveny is one of Melbourne's best Journalists/Media personalities. Her sarcastic wit has been highly developed over time and reading her opinion on what's on the box for the weekend is always amusing even if you like the show that she is trashing.

Instead of World Youth Day - why don't we have World Adult Day? World Adult Day is like World youth day, except we have "Grown Up in the Universe!" and shed off the mythical beings like the tooth fairy, santa and god...

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29. Comment #217757 by SRWB on July 24, 2008 at 3:34 pm

Is Muehlenburg a theologist? Wow, he sure knows alot about God and Jesus!

Reading his rebuttal had me in stitches. So many excellent quotes. And he's sooooo sure of himself isn't he?

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30. Comment #217758 by Dhamma on July 24, 2008 at 3:35 pm

Oystein,

Do you think you ease the stigmatisations of the evil atheist with that avatar?

Really, I love it! :)

"Gravitation" - Oh, the evil scientist!

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31. Comment #217774 by ghuckin on July 24, 2008 at 3:56 pm

Comment 24.
Thanks for posting the link to Muehlenburg's blog. I say "thanks", although reading it got me a bit steamed. Is it just me, or are there others who feel that when religious fundies say they are going to pray for me (always an unsolicited act), they make it sound like, "I'm going to punch you in the mouth."

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32. Comment #217793 by Dhamma on July 24, 2008 at 4:35 pm

ghuckin,

Ha, I agree. He was "threatening" us with his prayers quite a lot. One really feels they hate they can't threaten us by saying "You little f**king maggots MUST agree". How would their lord feel if they ever uttered such "horrible" words.

They obviously believe in god only because of their fear for her. Nice love.

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33. Comment #217798 by KrisRamJ on July 24, 2008 at 4:41 pm

what do you call automobile blinkers

Indeed Shaden, I'd say "indicators", strange how things are lost in translation (maiden/virgin springs to mind!)

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34. Comment #217811 by Laurie Fraser on July 24, 2008 at 5:03 pm

Did you know that the motor of an Australian automobile is called a "donk"?

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35. Comment #217814 by Goldy on July 24, 2008 at 5:10 pm

Indicators are sometimes called winkers in the UK - at least in classic motorcycle publications.
In New Zealand, going to the dairy means you're off to the cornershop to buy ciggies or beer. Americans, never tell an English lass she has a nice fanny.
Gotta love the evolution of English :-)

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36. Comment #217843 by DeepFritz on July 24, 2008 at 5:41 pm

Nah Laurie, the engine is called the "Guts" ;)

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37. Comment #217846 by Laurie Fraser on July 24, 2008 at 5:44 pm

Nonsense, DeepFritz - it is, and always has been, a "donk". And I should know - I'm an English teacher! :)

P.S. Interestingly, a donk is also a penis in some contexts. There you go - Australian men and their cars.

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38. Comment #217851 by Brian English on July 24, 2008 at 5:48 pm

You're an English teacher? Please read my posts charitably.

EDIT: I just reread your post. My reading skills suck. I've delete the bit that just restated your point. The shame!

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39. Comment #217853 by Laurie Fraser on July 24, 2008 at 5:50 pm

Yep, me too - however, "donk" as a penis metaphor has been around for quite a while, at least in Newcastle where I grew up. But Novocastrians are a bit odd.

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40. Comment #217855 by Brian English on July 24, 2008 at 5:52 pm

dong is indeed a penis metaphor as well as an engine metaphor. Any comments I made that seemed to disagree with this statement have been stricken from the public record.

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41. Comment #217856 by DeepFritz on July 24, 2008 at 5:54 pm

I always favoured dong over donk in that department... Then again I was born in Wollongong and live in Melbourne. There seems to be a language divide within our 2 cities...

Just ask what the locals mean by football ;)

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42. Comment #217857 by Brian English on July 24, 2008 at 5:55 pm

Dong is another penis metaphor.

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43. Comment #217863 by Brian English on July 24, 2008 at 6:03 pm

I just had a bad idea. I think us Aussies should get together and have an Aussie RD.NET/atheist conference. We won't invite Richard, basically because I don't think he likes us Aussies much and is quite busy. It should involve lots of boozing and crap talking, similar to what happens here on the site but the boozing will be communal.

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44. Comment #217880 by Godfree Gordon on July 24, 2008 at 6:20 pm

Shaden - aussie words

Blinders = Blinkers
Blinkers = Trafficators (30 yrs ago) = Indicators now

Rod

Farmer = Cockie
Cockatoo = Cockie
Confident = Cockie
Cockroach = Cockie
Cockroach = someone from New South Wales

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45. Comment #217888 by Godfree Gordon on July 24, 2008 at 6:25 pm

Laurie

Donger is the mainstream term for pen-s as in "dry as a dead dingo's donger"

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46. Comment #217903 by SPS on July 24, 2008 at 6:39 pm

http://cectic.com/ext/159.png

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47. Comment #217970 by stuee on July 24, 2008 at 8:00 pm

Stone the crows, me donk's gone and done the Harold Halt! Must have been those flamin' galah hoon drongos down the road!

Translation: Oh dear, the engine is missing from my automobile. I have a suspicion the disreputable people living in my neighbourhood may have had some involvement.

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48. Comment #217980 by thewhitepearl on July 24, 2008 at 8:09 pm

I'd fly down to Australia for the drinking, er I mean atheist conference. (If you guys decided to do it)

If that's ok, seeing how I'm not an awesome aussie or anything.

The article was a refreshing change from the usual. Really enjoyed it.

Laurie, he made the WYD sound more exciting than you did I'm afraid.

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49. Comment #217995 by secondsoprano on July 24, 2008 at 8:33 pm

I'm used to the phrase "with the blinders off," as in a horse with blinders. I can't say that I've seen a horse with blinkers...

A blinder is something completely different. For details, see the proposal for an Aussie RD.net drinking er I mean athiest conference.

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50. Comment #218010 by Goldy on July 24, 2008 at 8:58 pm

A blinder is something completely different. For details, see the proposal for an Aussie RD.net drinking er I mean athiest conference.

Most Anglo-Saxons I know will be preparing for a blinder as I type. I myself am mentally preparing for a sanitised, post marriage, version :-)

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