Breeding for God2. Comment #221378 by JAMCAM87 on July 29, 2008 at 2:56 pm
3. Comment #221382 by Eshto on July 29, 2008 at 3:00 pm
4. Comment #221396 by Faux Snail on July 29, 2008 at 3:24 pm
5. Comment #221397 by Vinelectric on July 29, 2008 at 3:24 pm
You people in the UK need to do something about this rise of Islam
6. Comment #221398 by Nairb on July 29, 2008 at 3:26 pm
The occasionally cited figure of 30 per cent ethnic minorities in western Europe by 2050 is little more than an educated guess.
Even in the US, there has been an appreciable growth in the "no religion" population over the past decade to 14 per cent
7. Comment #221401 by Goldy on July 29, 2008 at 3:31 pm
You people in the UK need to do something about this rise of Islam... and fast.
8. Comment #221406 by fizhburn on July 29, 2008 at 3:35 pm
9. Comment #221408 by indigo.myth on July 29, 2008 at 3:35 pm
What a terrifying view of the future this article portrays. However there are some points that the study does not take account of. Medical research in the field of stem cells could produce treatments to increase longevity and cure many currently fatal or debilitating illnesses. The deeply conservative religious would not be able to take advantage of these treatments, without compromising their moral values, but social liberals would be able to. If this was the case, then liberals with access to such treatments would live longer, stay healthier, and subsequently breed more, then those religious that eschewed such treatments. The old value systems against stem cell research, would inhibit conservatives ability to survive illness that liberals would survive. For example, if a cure for cancer was forth coming, from an area of research deemed ethically immoral by the religious, then they could not participate in that cure, and therefore their numbers would be worn away by religious people simply dying of cancer. However, liberals, being able to have treatment for the disease, would survive their ordeal to reproduce. This would alter the demographic survival rate.10. Comment #221410 by Goldy on July 29, 2008 at 3:38 pm
If this was the case, then liberals with access to such treatments would live longer, stay healthier, and subsequently breed more,...Pensionable age has increased, or is going to be increased, many of my peers have only just started our families (in our very late 30s and early 40s).
11. Comment #221424 by Mango on July 29, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Nairb comment 6: Another scaremongering article on the population explosion (of muslims) that is supposed to swamp us all.
12. Comment #221426 by Eshto on July 29, 2008 at 3:51 pm
13. Comment #221433 by admin on July 29, 2008 at 4:01 pm
"Electrolytes. It's what plants crave."
14. Comment #221442 by Nairb on July 29, 2008 at 4:08 pm
15. Comment #221443 by Apathy personified on July 29, 2008 at 4:09 pm
16. Comment #221449 by Goldy on July 29, 2008 at 4:20 pm
17. Comment #221486 by HitbLade on July 29, 2008 at 4:57 pm
It appears that stupid people are naturally selected.18. Comment #221490 by Goldy on July 29, 2008 at 5:00 pm
It appears that stupid people are naturally selected.No, just stupid. They tend to die off younger...
19. Comment #221502 by cyris8400 on July 29, 2008 at 5:09 pm
The author mentions sociologist of religion Steve Bruce. Anyone interested in secularization should read Bruce's "God is Dead: Secularization in the West." It's basically a big bitch-slap to academics like Rodney Stark, who argue for the inevitable resurgence of religion because people "need" religion. According to Bruce's able critique, Stark has vitalism-esque ideas about how religion-- and only religion-- can provide meaning in people's life.20. Comment #221504 by trevok on July 29, 2008 at 5:11 pm
Aside from the fact that secularism is impossible today, "breeding for secularism" really makes no sense because it buys into the notion that religion is genetic. The goal of atheists should be to create an inclusive atheistic civilization, this means bringing religious into our milieu by aggressively pushing an atheistic agenda via education, political activism, sites like this, books like the God Delusion, etc. Trying to compete in terms of population is to adopt the cultural outlook that religion is genetic and separate, and thus the best atheists can do is try to get more of our kind and try to live off separately from the religious nutters.21. Comment #221511 by Mango on July 29, 2008 at 5:19 pm
trevok comment 20 "breeding for secularism" really makes no sense because it buys into the notion that religion is genetic.
22. Comment #221515 by cyris8400 on July 29, 2008 at 5:24 pm
I agree with Trevok that we shouldn't fight fire with fire.23. Comment #221523 by Luthien on July 29, 2008 at 5:40 pm
In ethnically divided Northern Ireland, sectarian conflict fuels far higher religiosity than in other parts of Britain.
24. Comment #221527 by 82abhilash on July 29, 2008 at 5:47 pm
They are using current trends to project how things will be in 2045? 38 years into the future? 38 years ago the year was 1970? How similar is the world of 1970 to the world of today? I was not there but people I know where and it is a lot different. If you go to developing countries the difference is even higher. In Middle East, things are changing extremely fast. Yet the change is somewhat planned. It is not anarchy, like it was during the cultural revolution in China.25. Comment #221529 by fizhburn on July 29, 2008 at 5:53 pm
For all that we talk about how hard it is to deconvert the religious, what is easier?: raising 3-5 kids to be skeptical and open-minded, or convincing 3-5 persons to become skeptical and open-minded?From an unscientific survey taken by me on this board, the first option is looking more and more inviting.
26. Comment #221533 by AfraidToDie on July 29, 2008 at 6:03 pm
27. Comment #221534 by nervouswreck on July 29, 2008 at 6:03 pm
28. Comment #221537 by Layla Nasreddin on July 29, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Second, religious people in the childbearing 18-45 age range are disproportionately female.
Religious lobbyists, couching their claims in the rhetoric of relativism and diversity, will ask why the secular point of view on issues like abortion, blasphemy, pornography and evolution is the only one taught, aired or "respected."
29. Comment #221538 by thewhitepearl on July 29, 2008 at 6:12 pm
It appears that stupid people are naturally selected.
30. Comment #221539 by cyris8400 on July 29, 2008 at 6:13 pm
fizhburn: unscientific, exactly.31. Comment #221540 by Goldy on July 29, 2008 at 6:13 pm
32. Comment #221542 by stereoroid on July 29, 2008 at 6:15 pm
33. Comment #221545 by thewhitepearl on July 29, 2008 at 6:17 pm
34. Comment #221546 by Goldy on July 29, 2008 at 6:20 pm
35. Comment #221549 by J Mac on July 29, 2008 at 6:29 pm
What a terrifying view of the future this article portrays. However there are some points that the study does not take account of. Medical research in the field of stem cells could produce treatments to increase longevity and cure many currently fatal or debilitating illnesses. The deeply conservative religious would not be able to take advantage of these treatments, without compromising their moral values, but social liberals would be able to.
When the avian flu became a big issue in this country what you heard was the president say 'we have to quickly determine how fast it is mutating from birds to humans' you never heard one person in his administration say, 'you know, its designed to kill us.' ... we really need the science, its the only thing that's gonna save us.
36. Comment #221550 by Goldy on July 29, 2008 at 6:30 pm
37. Comment #221553 by fizhburn on July 29, 2008 at 6:35 pm
38. Comment #221561 by Laurie Fraser on July 29, 2008 at 7:11 pm
39. Comment #221576 by Wosret on July 29, 2008 at 8:19 pm
What the hell? We can't even out-sex religious people? How is that? They are the ones thinking sex is all evil and nasty, not us. On, right, we don't treat our love interests like sex-slaves, and live-in maids. Forgot about that.
40. Comment #221588 by Old Sarum on July 29, 2008 at 8:54 pm
I think the problem with the picture presented in this article is that it assumes that "religion" can always be reliably associated with sociopolitical conservatism. This not only ignores the liberal vs conservative tensions that exist in all but the smallest sects, it also discounts the possibility that entirely new & popular religious movements may emerge in the future.41. Comment #221590 by qomak on July 29, 2008 at 9:08 pm
42. Comment #221594 by Goldy on July 29, 2008 at 9:20 pm
Sweden, by contrast, reversed the fertility declines it experienced in the 1970s through a different mix of policies, none of which specifically had the objective of raising fertility. Its parental work policies during the 1980s allowed many women to raise children while remaining in the workforce. The mechanisms for doing so were flexible work schedules, quality child care, and extensive parental leave on reasonable economic terms.
43. Comment #221618 by SamKiddoGordon on July 29, 2008 at 10:27 pm
44. Comment #221621 by Paine on July 29, 2008 at 10:58 pm
GoldyEasy to make a flip comment - how about some suggestions instead?
45. Comment #221627 by Fanusi Khiyal on July 29, 2008 at 11:30 pm
*counts the ostriches*You people in the UK need to do something about this rise of Islam... and fast.
I think some active efforts at integration are not too hard. Even at a personal level. If you start to treat people not as parasites, but guests, they'll be much more likely to assimilate. In other words make them comfortable but insist that they live by house rules.
They are using current trends to project how things will be in 2045? 38 years into the future? 38 years ago the year was 1970? How similar is the world of 1970 to the world of today? I was not there but people I know where and it is a lot different.
Besides religion itself is changing so rapidly, I am not sure what problems the christianity and islam of 2045 can pose. Maybe they won't exist, or if they do, only in a non-toxic form. I do not know.
Let's try beating them at their own game, even if we don't succeed, at least we'll have had fun failing
Medical research in the field of stem cells could produce treatments to increase longevity and cure many currently fatal or debilitating illnesses.
46. Comment #221628 by paulwwww on July 29, 2008 at 11:38 pm
qomak;Secular education about religion from early age for everyone will solve the problem. Nothing kills religion like knowledge and prevention of indoctrination.
47. Comment #221631 by Barry Pearson on July 29, 2008 at 11:56 pm
As evangelicals gained in self-consciousness, they increasingly erected communal boundaries - such as their own media - which could bind the generations regardless of education or wealth.... A similar process seems to be occurring in Europe - as the religious become increasingly self-conscious of their unusual identity in a secular society, they become more resistant to secularisation.A big factor that is probably not yet visible in generational terms is the rise in global communications, especially based on the Internet.
#221504 by trevok: In a globalized world though, there really can be no separation, everyone is in it together, so we have a battle for the planet shaping up so to speak
#221515 by cyris8400: For all that we talk about how hard it is to deconvert the religious, what is easier?:
#221527 by 82abhilash: In other words we are having globalization; not just a global market, but globalization even at the grass root level, even societies are becoming transnational.
What you have to spew and spread is extremely dangerous... It's dangerous for our children to even know that your philosophy existsYes, it IS dangerous - for people who want to "erect communal boundaries".
#221542 by stereoroid: Yasser Arafat used to say "The greatest weapon of the Palestinian people is our women's wombs"I have seen analysis that says that the best way of reducing population growth is to achieve education and financial control for women.
#221590 by qomak: Secular education about religion from early age for everyone will solve the problem
48. Comment #221632 by Old Sarum on July 30, 2008 at 12:00 am
"If things go on like this, Europe will become Eurabia and the oldest civilised nations in the world will vanish, forever. "49. Comment #221645 by Serdan on July 30, 2008 at 12:31 am
"Moderate muslims in Western countries openly support diversity of religious belief, free speech, multiculturalism etc etc."
50. Comment #221647 by notsobad on July 30, 2008 at 12:32 am
1. Comment #221376 by equivocal20 on July 29, 2008 at 2:55 pm
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