










The Dawkins Delusion (Different Article, Same Stupid Title)2. Comment #5460 by Greywizard on November 9, 2006 at 3:03 pm
Anyone who has read anything by McGrath will know that this is his MO. He does not represent his opponents fairly. He is not honest in the way that he deals with his subject matters. He is biased, agenda driven and inaccurate. Read "The Twilight of Atheism" if you are in any doubt. He is simply not to be taken seriously. I'm not even sure he takes himself seriously. Surely, no one who really cares can be as shoddy in scholarship as Professor McGrath. He convinced me, all by himself, that atheism must be true.4. Comment #5464 by vega on November 9, 2006 at 3:17 pm
You're correct Fedler. McGrath sets up a straw man and knocks it down. Well - duh.5. Comment #5466 by Jack Rawlinson on November 9, 2006 at 3:25 pm
Oh god. Another inattentive dolt who is more interested in beating straw men than the arguments Dawkins actually advances in the book. Nowhere does Dawkins say that eliminating religion would eliminate violence, social tension or discrimination. In fact he openly concedes that religion is not the only source of such things.7. Comment #5471 by HappyFlesh on November 9, 2006 at 3:46 pm
I've heard of judging a book by the cover, but reviewing by the cover? That's a shameless sinecure.9. Comment #5475 by Manfred on November 9, 2006 at 4:06 pm
Was he really trying to defend religion? This was the weakest argument I have ever heard.10. Comment #5478 by Manfred on November 9, 2006 at 4:21 pm
William: "You know, I wonder how many of these 'believers' actually believe?"11. Comment #5483 by Yorker on November 9, 2006 at 4:45 pm
Yes, it appears that McGrath just read the cover of TGD and that was enough to prompt his erroneous blethering. Is it possible that jealousy of Dawkins literary success is really the driving force behind such an obviously flawed and ill-thought through attack? Maybe the fear that Dawkins arguments may hasten the demise of theology and put McGrath out of work, is another contributing factor.12. Comment #5484 by Homosapien on November 9, 2006 at 4:46 pm
Wow, McGrath had just ended the need for all medical research, all efforts for his own religion's mission works, and anyone working for the elimination of pain and suffering of any form, since no single effort will eradicate, completely, any one form of pain or suffering. Can we get some intelligent objections to Dawkins, something we can really sink our teeth into?13. Comment #5487 by Riley on November 9, 2006 at 4:58 pm
[ Alister E. McGrath QUOTE} But [religion] also has the capacity to transform, creating a deep sense of personal identity and value, and bringing social cohesion.14. Comment #5488 by MakingBelieve on November 9, 2006 at 5:02 pm
RD must be hitting very close to home to trigger a rebuttal book with such a blatantly ad hominem, unoriginal title, obviously calculated to sell, not on its own merits, but on the notoriety of TGD's success.15. Comment #5489 by Janus on November 9, 2006 at 5:08 pm
Ah, I've seen this argument before. The tactic is to convince the reader that ideologies (religions included) don't have any influence on the way people behave. Ideologies are morally neutral (or morally good), it's _people_ who twist them to further their evil ends.17. Comment #5497 by CF1 on November 9, 2006 at 6:45 pm
In addition to what David S. said above (post #21), all people of any religious stripe, (especially fundy christians come to mind), are also human and are subject to what all of us are subject to: BASIC HUMAN PRIDE.18. Comment #5512 by Pootatuck on November 9, 2006 at 8:11 pm
This is what passes for scholarly discourse at Oxford? I find that disturbing. I haven't read any of Dawkins' books as of yet. I have wandered around this website and found the articles and comments to be dead on. This McGrath sounds like he is trying to ride Mr. Dawkins' coattails to a literary career. He better not quit his day job.19. Comment #5514 by Randy Ping on November 9, 2006 at 8:12 pm
Some memetic viri resist treatment. Up the dosage.21. Comment #5546 by Jonathan Dore on November 9, 2006 at 10:59 pm
So McGrath is publishing yet another book "rebutting" Dawkins next year -- but he already published "Dawkins' God" last year (getting his "rebuttal" in first, as it were). One book with an opponent's name in the title might be understandable, if lame; but *two* is somewhere between a schoolboy crush and the obsessive mania of a stalker.23. Comment #5604 by Aussie on November 10, 2006 at 4:12 am
What's wrong with religion?24. Comment #5644 by Skeptic Jim on November 10, 2006 at 8:42 am
Where did all this straw come from? Anyone got a match?25. Comment #5693 by Duncan1349 on November 10, 2006 at 1:54 pm
It might be of interest to you to hear McGrath's recent speech, it lasts well over an hour (maybe 2...i lost track). It will give you an idea of what his book is about, if you dont wish to wait or line his pockets.26. Comment #5699 by Aussie on November 10, 2006 at 2:09 pm
"I have not read Dawkins' book as yet, but I ..."27. Comment #5706 by goddogit on November 10, 2006 at 2:55 pm
It is the length and depth of Prof. McGrath that left me speechless, since choking snickering makes it difficult to say anything.28. Comment #5780 by gengar on November 11, 2006 at 3:41 am
I went to a public lecture given by McGrath on Thursday, and I was extremely unimpressed. Given his status and credentials I was hoping for some meaty arguments which would at least give me some pause for thought - instead he just put up a sequence of strawmen and proceeded to blow them down with waffle.29. Comment #5781 by maryhelena on November 11, 2006 at 3:44 am
Aussie wrote:30. Comment #5786 by William on November 11, 2006 at 4:05 am
David said:31. Comment #5818 by G Bile on November 11, 2006 at 9:02 am
This article by professor McGrath presents the lamest 'excuse' for religion I ever read.33. Comment #5849 by Jack Sparrow on November 11, 2006 at 11:36 am
"Dawkins needs to go head to head [with McGrath]"34. Comment #5850 by Jack Sparrow on November 11, 2006 at 11:39 am
Sorry about last post didn't notice point already made by post 5335. Comment #6133 by Richard on November 12, 2006 at 7:26 pm
My oh my. Such fanciful language. All in the name of declaring there is no God. The uppity supercilious group wants to disbelieve there is a God and offer such inane reasons why that it is hard to stomach. And they want the rest of us to do the same as they do.36. Comment #6320 by goddogit on November 13, 2006 at 3:55 pm
"I hereby formally offer/challenge Mr Dawkins to a debate anywhere he likes. Of course I realise he is a busy man and has a lot of books to sell. I also realise that he is preaching to the converted. And most of all I realise that I am a nobody in terms of public prestige etc - it would be a kind of David v. Goliath situation. But remember what happened there (allegedly!). Anyway here' teh [sic] challenge. I await his response!"37. Comment #6323 by Jonathan Dore on November 13, 2006 at 4:02 pm
Jack Sparrow wrote: "In fact if you watch the creationist video 'From a Frog to a Prince' Dawkins comes off badly as admitted by a australian secularist who heard the entire audio recording."39. Comment #6420 by Mike on November 14, 2006 at 6:24 am
As so many in this thread have said, Prof McGrath has willfully misrepresented Dawkin's thesis that religions are built on myth and contribute to the man made ills of society. These religions contribute to man's capacity to discriminate between the 'in' group and the'out group'.40. Comment #15182 by alangdon on December 29, 2006 at 10:43 am
McGRath's book is well worth a read. He makes some decent points. Still, if that's the best defence of theism that Oxford can come up with, Dawkin's need not worry.41. Comment #15620 by seb07 on January 1, 2007 at 4:26 pm
I have just finished reading Dawkin's God - a book by Alistair McGrath. Of course on an atheist website, it is difficult to find any respect for someone who plays Devil's advocate and points out flaws in an argument, and that's all this is about - an argument. I think Dawkin's books are fabulous, well-written and very engaging. I also think McGrath's books are just as interesting. It's funny how commenters here have said that McGrath puts up straw men to knock down, and how unqualified he is to make any statements on the subject. A little bit of research will show that he is highly qualified in science and theology and is just trying to have a more intellectual debate instead of just getting angry. I'd love to know if anyone has read any of his books and what they thought?42. Comment #120693 by TrueBeliever on February 2, 2008 at 10:31 am
McGrath is right. If you take the position that man created god and not vice versa then ask yourself why. Is it because of the reason Dawkins believes, that man uses religion to justify war? Well if that's true and you eliminate religion then people will just create new reasons to justify war. Napolean, Mao Tse-tung, Pol Pot, Stalin, Lenin, and probably Castro are or were atheists. None of them ever used god as a reason to justify their actions. So tell me how the world would be better off if religion was banned. Race, ethnicity, social status and greed are just some of the reasons people go to war and they have nothing to do with religion. So if you want to ban religion then you might as well go the whole nine yards like Hitler tried to and eliminate everyone that isn't white with blond hair and blue eyes. If you think just eliminating religion is going to bring peace to the world then you're naive.43. Comment #150435 by Tim Nelson on March 26, 2008 at 11:02 pm
Religious apologists, including McGrath, make frequent attacks on "atheism" by trying to bring it down to their own level: they kid themselves (and try to kid others) that atheism is a "belief", or more ludicrously a "religion" in its own right and hence subject to all the same weaknesses and flaws of their own nonsense.
1. Comment #5458 by Fedler on November 9, 2006 at 3:00 pm
I don't ever recall reading in The God Delusion where Dawkins states that if religion is eliminated than the world would be a shiny-happy utopia. Religion is a problem, but I believe Prof. Dawkins states on several occasions, that religion is not the only problem. Did Prof. McGrath actually read the book that closely? I'm guessing not. It sounds like he got offended early on (maybe not even beyond Chapter 1), closed his mind (along with the book) and felt obliged to offer an opinion.One would think if Prof. McGrath wanted to be critical, he ought to at least do his homework.