Monday, August 11, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version

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Saudi Arabia Bans Dog Walking in Capital

by ABC News

Thanks to Elaine Ellerton for the link.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=5490035

Saudi Arabia Bans Dog Walking in Capital

Saudi Religious Police Ban Dog Walking, Sales of Dogs and Cats, Fearing Men Use Them to Flirt

Every single man knows: Walking a dog in the park is a sure babe magnet. Saudi Arabia's Islamic religious police, in their zeal to keep the sexes apart, want to make sure the technique doesn't catch on here.

The solution: Ban selling dogs and cats as pets, as well as walking them in public.

The prohibition went into effect Wednesday in the capital, Riyadh, and authorities in the city say they will strictly enforce it — unlike previous bans in the cities of Mecca and Jiddah, which have been ignored and failed to stop pet sales.

Violators found outside with their pets will have their beloved poodles and other furry companions confiscated by agents of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice, the official name of the religious police, tasked with enforcing Saudi Arabia's strict Islamic code.

Saudis play by their cat outside a pet shop in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, Thursday , July 31, 2008. In their zeal to keep the sexes apart, the kingdom's religious police say they have begun enforcing a ban on the sale of cats and dogs as pets and walking them in public because men use the animals to hit on women. (AP Photo)

Posted: Monday, August 11, 2008 | Permalink

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1. Comment #228234 by Cartomancer on August 11, 2008 at 4:26 pm

It must take a peculiarly twisted sort of mind to come up with such things. I can't imagine what it would be like to spend all day sitting in an office working out ways to stop people flirting with each other...

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2. Comment #228235 by Border Collie on August 11, 2008 at 4:27 pm

I asked my border collie, Charlie, what he thought about this. He barked, loosely translated, "What a bunch of fucking wankers!" I think he barked something about fucktards also.

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3. Comment #228236 by Goldy on August 11, 2008 at 4:30 pm

Aaah, I recall this from Arab News. Here's the opinion of that
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7§ion=0&article=112284&d=31&m=7&y=2008
and
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1§ion=0&article=112273&d=31&m=7&y=2008

Mind you, this ban comes from the country that can report this
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1§ion=0&article=112706&d=12&m=8&y=2008

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4. Comment #228237 by decius on August 11, 2008 at 4:30 pm

It must be the drive towards modernity announced by the king a few months ago.

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5. Comment #228238 by NewEnglandBob on August 11, 2008 at 4:32 pm

Can we ban Saudi Arabians from this planet?

Their stupidity and worldview are a danger to us all!

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6. Comment #228239 by Goldy on August 11, 2008 at 4:38 pm

NewEnglandBob - just the non-elected self appointed guardians need to be banned. I think quite a few Saudi Arabians would like to see them banned from Saudi Arabia, as this article extract seems to suggest...

Now I have to ask: How on earth can owning a pet be considered a risk to social codes and morality? The allegation that some people use animals to annoy families in public areas is ridiculous and surely unfounded. If someone were really harassing a family or another person in public, then there are ways and means and laws to stop such behavior.

A person can in fact use anything to harass people �" mobile phones, the lights of his car, or loud music coming from his car. So are we going to ban the use of mobile phones in public? Or will we wake tomorrow to the news that young men are no longer allowed to drive in public areas? All I am asking for is some logic and reasonable thinking. And please stop the automatic reflex of banning things when someone thinks that those things are causing problems.

But when it comes to the banning of pets, there is also another way of thinking �" one that considers animals dirty. We are told that the ban was issued in the wake of a fatwa against owning pets.

But we ask if it is better to keep pets at home where people can enjoy their companionship and can, at the same time, take care of them? Or is it better to have the animals roaming the streets where they may be a hazard to public health, as they might get sick and spread disease and germs and also be killed by speeding drivers?

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7. Comment #228241 by Cartomancer on August 11, 2008 at 4:38 pm

Actually, I have a good idea. Why don't we get Saudis to start carrying copies of the Koran round in public and using those as a pretext to hit on one another. As soon as the religious police catch on they'll ban anything to do with islam and implode in a satisfying puff of self-denying contradiction!

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8. Comment #228243 by NewEnglandBob on August 11, 2008 at 4:41 pm

Actually, I have a good idea. Why don't we get Saudis to start carrying copies of the Koran round in public and using those as a pretext to hit on one another. As soon as the religious police catch on they'll ban anything to do with islam and implode in a satisfying puff of self-denying contradiction!

No, then they will just blame Israel and the international conspiracy of Jews and Americans for making them desecrate their 'holy book' by hitting.

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9. Comment #228244 by Goldy on August 11, 2008 at 4:42 pm

Carto, they thought of that already. Then you get smacked with a blasphemy suit and your head is chopped off or something...

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10. Comment #228245 by Border Collie on August 11, 2008 at 4:43 pm

Thanks for those three articles, Goldy. I guess if the M-guy said dogs were OK, then they're OK. I can relax now and keep my dog. And, thanks, decius ... I sprayed a mouthful of water all over my computer as I read your comment.

Other Comments by Border Collie

11. Comment #228252 by Goldy on August 11, 2008 at 4:52 pm

Border, you can keep your dog and still marry off all those prepubescent girls in your family that irk you. Such is modern Saudi Arabia.
Mind you, thing this self appointed guardianship of morality is spreading...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7546907.stm
Trouble with religious insanity - it is not easily contained...

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12. Comment #228260 by Colonel Molerat on August 11, 2008 at 5:04 pm

Carto:
"I can't imagine what it would be like to spend all day sitting in an office working out ways to stop people flirting with each other..."

I can. I'll help you out:
Best. Job. Ever.

Sitting there, in your cubicle, scheming, thinking of new ways to prevent other people from either: Having as much fun as you (if not single);
or: Having more fun than you (if single).

Oooh, the deviousness and power-hunger in me tingles.
How do I get a fast-track visa & Islamic conversion package?

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13. Comment #228263 by mordacious1 on August 11, 2008 at 5:12 pm

Didn't we already discuss this a couple of weeks ago? I only bought my corgi because it attracts young women, poor thing would have to go to the pound if they outlawed walking them here.

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14. Comment #228265 by Border Collie on August 11, 2008 at 5:23 pm

Man, you know, thirteen hundred years or so without an orgasm is just a little too long.

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15. Comment #228270 by thewhitepearl on August 11, 2008 at 5:42 pm

Sir Francis Crick and Mr. Mendel would be stoned to death.

:(

I don't understand this, people stay away from my babies, they don't really attract anyone.

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16. Comment #228271 by chewedbarber on August 11, 2008 at 5:45 pm

have begun enforcing a ban on the sale of cats and dogs as pets and walking them in public because men use the animals to hit on women.

I thought you must be joking, then I realized that there are politicians in the US who also think it is appropriate to draft bills outlawing pet peeves, and it isn't beneath them to fabricate justifications.

Most likely, one of these arrogant sobs stepped in dog shit and his fit has become law -- congrats.

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17. Comment #228272 by catskill on August 11, 2008 at 5:48 pm

The part I seem to be missing is why in a strictly Islamic country are there any dogs at all? Are not dogs seen as unclean? Didn't we just have a story here about a couple of Muslims protesting a British police sticker because it had a PHOTO of a dog? What am I missing here?

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18. Comment #228273 by chewedbarber on August 11, 2008 at 5:50 pm

Are not dogs seen as unclean?

I don't think so. I know that tradition is ok with cats, and depending on what hadith you take seriously you may think dogs are allowable so long as they do some work like hunting.

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19. Comment #228275 by Goldy on August 11, 2008 at 6:03 pm

Didn't we just have a story here about a couple of Muslims protesting a British police sticker because it had a PHOTO of a dog?

One Muslim - councillor Asif in Dundee. Had to be pointed out to him that some of the Muslim shop owners that he was "defending" also sold pet food. In fact, they had been selling pet food for a while. Nothing strange about that other than the cans also had pictures of dogs on them...and no one complained.

China has a dog thing too - can't keep big dogs in Beijing and some other cities. There were stories of horrified owners seeing their dogs bludgeoned in front of them by the dog catchers.

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20. Comment #228277 by Darwinorlose on August 11, 2008 at 6:14 pm

When I was a young lad I had read a story about Muhammed's pet cat. Apparently when it was time to pray Muhammed found that his cat had fallen asleep on the sleeve of his robe. Instead of disturbing the cat he cut of the sleeve so that his cat could sleep undisturbed. I was very touched by that story. In later years when I married and we had our own cats that when my wife wanted me to get up and the cat was asleep on me, I would just remark, "Muhammed's cat", and she would let us be.

I just read in Wiki that "Muslims are traditionally encouraged to regard cats as lovable and cherished creatures, and mistreating a cat (or any other animal) is seen as a severe sin in Islam." Given this, isn't it wrong to forbid walking dog who need the exercise as well as the chance to relieve themselves? The oafs who came up with this law must never had had the joys of a pet when growing up. How sad and pathetic all this is.

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21. Comment #228279 by Edamus on August 11, 2008 at 6:18 pm

What the hell...?

This is utter nonsense. These people need to get out of the 6th century...

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22. Comment #228287 by Thor'Ungal on August 11, 2008 at 6:42 pm

I just read in Wiki that "Muslims are traditionally encouraged to regard cats as lovable and cherished creatures, and mistreating a cat (or any other animal) is seen as a severe sin in Islam." Given this, isn't it wrong to forbid walking dog who need the exercise as well as the chance to relieve themselves? The oafs who came up with this law must never had had the joys of a pet when growing up. How sad and pathetic all this is.

I think this is the point. Muhammed Liked cats, hated dogs. So to follow suit dogs are thought of as unclean by Islam. I don't totally understand to prohibition of cats though.

Of course this is entirely beside the point. Religious ideas with inadequate secular justification should not be imposed on people. Yet another reason the world needs to stand up and say what this is. Senseless and barbaric.

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23. Comment #228290 by Goldy on August 11, 2008 at 6:48 pm

Mo and dogs..
http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/dogs.htm

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24. Comment #228303 by Ishruul on August 11, 2008 at 7:29 pm

Can people be more retarded than this????

Why not ban BEING A WOMAN!!! Let's put them all in one place, say someone's basement and keep them alive there for maybe 24years or so. That would fix a lot of problem, doesn't it?

Hey, wait a minute, that rings a bell! Didn't some Austrian guy or whatever did this to his daughter and childs!

It amaze me how much humanity can sink!

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25. Comment #228305 by Goldy on August 11, 2008 at 7:31 pm

Austrian guy.

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26. Comment #228306 by Ishruul on August 11, 2008 at 7:34 pm

Thanks Goldy! ;)

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27. Comment #228309 by eclampusvitus on August 11, 2008 at 7:43 pm

I'm all for it.

The more of these ridiculous, Medieval travesties the fundamentalists impose, the sooner the Arabian masses, yearning for freedom and modernity will rebel and overthrow the religious tyranny that enslaves them.

Now, all we need is for the God Delusion to be translated into Arabic and air-dropped by the thousands into that "Holy" country.

ECV

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28. Comment #228313 by Goldy on August 11, 2008 at 8:07 pm

ECV - I have a horrible feeling these fundies are actually our fundies. We keep them there :-( The ones who want to overthrow them are apparently more fundy than them!

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29. Comment #228314 by qomak on August 11, 2008 at 8:18 pm

I have been away for a little bit but what is this ".commentText -->" business?

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30. Comment #228318 by Layla Nasreddin on August 11, 2008 at 9:04 pm

Speaking of dogs in Islam, these ahadith always bothered the hell out of me, given that I owned a couple of (rather useless) poodles:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/054.sbt.html#004.054.541
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "If somebody keeps a dog, he loses one Qirat (portion) of the reward of his good deeds everyday, except if he keeps it for the purpose of agriculture or for the protection of livestock."

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/054.sbt.html#004.054.540

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle ordered that the dogs should be killed.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/054.sbt.html#004.054.539

Narrated Abu Talha:

The Prophet said, "Angels do not enter a house which has either a dog or a picture in it."

Being the thoughtful type, I found it hard to reconcile such canine-phobia with the Qur'an's description of the faithful canine of the Sleepers in the Cave in Surah al-Kahf (18:18, 22). What gives, I wondered, there's nothing in the Qur'an explicitly stating dogs are unclean! They are Allah's creatures, too! Why do I have to wash anything that's been licked by a dog seven times, once with dirt? Who thought this stuff up? I wanted to say that Muhammad was a product of his time and place, which didn't value dogs as pets, but that contradicted the claim that he was an example for all times and places. What to believe, I wondered?

Fortunately, despite what the hadith and the clerics say, many, many Muslims are emphatically NOT dog-haters -- yes, even Saudis! It's a very good thing that so many believers are so lax and/or hypocritical when following the dictates of their religion!

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31. Comment #228320 by HourglassMemory on August 11, 2008 at 9:08 pm

Oh sure. Everytime I walk my dog, I have tons of women wanting to have sex with me and be dirty and yes, I'll USE them to spread my seed and allow myself to be tempted and sin.
C'mon....
There's some really weird cultures out there... really...
Someday those people won't be able to do anything. And they'll have to live as robots. A mechanic society...it's such a childish way to solve society's problems.

And also, I couldn't help noticing.
If you're going to take away the chance of men to see women's faces, and you're not gonna allow them to flirt, you're bound to start having situations like the one pictured below the article.
Where men can only take visual cues from other men, and in their desperation.....start flirting with each other...and start asking each other's cats' names.

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32. Comment #228321 by Goldy on August 11, 2008 at 9:17 pm

Layla,
23. Comment #228290 by Goldy
Sort of tries ot explain it but it isn't the most Islamophilic site...

HourglassMemory - I took a doggie out once for a walk - it was a good way to actually meet women. Odd... Anyway, their thing is that sexes are to be totally segregated. Totally, utter-butterly, do not even look segregated. Dogs can be seen as a way to meet someone - after all, Saudi men are seriously repressed!
Couple of links
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/12/world/middleeast/12saudi.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
and
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/13/world/middleeast/13girls.html

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33. Comment #228324 by Layla Nasreddin on August 11, 2008 at 9:25 pm

Goldy wrote:

Sort of tries ot explain it but it isn't the most Islamophilic site...

Looking through it...well, I knew that! ;-)

What makes it even more bizarre is this story (allegedly) told by Muhammad, in which a prostitute has her sins forgiven...for giving water to a thirsty dog! How on Earth, I thought, am I supposed to square this with the above ahadith?

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/054.sbt.html#004.054.538

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "A prostitute was forgiven by Allah, because, passing by a panting dog near a well and seeing that the dog was about to die of thirst, she took off her shoe, and tying it with her head-cover she drew out some water for it. So, Allah forgave her because of that."

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34. Comment #228325 by thewhitepearl on August 11, 2008 at 9:27 pm

Hey, wait a minute, that rings a bell! Didn't some Austrian guy or whatever did this to his daughter and childs

Thought that as soon as I read the sentence that proceeded it. Not only was it his daughter and children, They were direct off spring grandchildren. Sicko.

Oy I just noticed the picture..[makes dirty smart ass comment]

[edit]

I have been away for a little bit but what is this ".commentText -->" business?

The Mordacious Crash of 2008.

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35. Comment #228336 by Fanusi Khiyal on August 11, 2008 at 11:24 pm

Layla there's a hadith in Sahih Muslim that describes dogs as unclean.

Be that as it may, I'm more concerned about the fact that the "marriage" of nine-year old girls to forty or fifty year old men is okay, and this means that child-rape is endemic to Saudi Arabia and much of the rest of the dar al-Islam.

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36. Comment #228342 by Verylee on August 11, 2008 at 11:57 pm

So there's a Peke Dog problem as well now ;)

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37. Comment #228343 by Carole on August 11, 2008 at 11:58 pm

And poor dogs. No more walkies. That's positively cruel.
In a further bid to win the "most ridiculous religion in a world which has quite a few crackpot ones" competition, in Iraq, the women are not allowed to buy CUCUMBERS now...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/2538545/Al-Qaeda-in-Iraq-alienated-by-cucumber-laws-and-brutality.html

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38. Comment #228357 by HunterZolomon on August 12, 2008 at 12:46 am

Edit: I was just going to post that Carole! :)

Nothing surprises me about the lunacy of Muslims anymore. A ban forbidding women to buy cucumbers or any other "suggestively-shaped vegetables". As if we didn't have enough material to ridicule these nutters...

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39. Comment #228363 by 8teist on August 12, 2008 at 12:53 am

DON`T mention bananas for dogs sake

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40. Comment #228367 by Philip1978 on August 12, 2008 at 1:02 am

This behaviour offends my idealistic and foolishly romantic sensibilities, how dare they stop people and their right to flirt!

In the name of Keats, Byron, Tennyson, Whitman, Thoreau, Shelly and Shakespeare (plus any other cool poet who I have in my outrage forgotten to add!) I demand that these people apologise to me forthwith or there will be trouble.

How dare they mess with the one most important thing on this planet? Next thing they will be outlawing Tea - bloody Mormons are all ready on my hitlist for that - but preventing good honest flirting is outrageous!

Damn them and their trousers!

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41. Comment #228373 by Kuffar Resistance on August 12, 2008 at 1:25 am

Mohammad (that,s the Muslims 'prophet' - a child raping, mass murdering pirate) thought dogs were evil - particularly black ones!

Read the Islamic trilogy, the Quran, the ahadith and the Sirat Rasool Allah and you will see all the behaviour patterns reflected in modern Muslims.

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42. Comment #228378 by Shuggy on August 12, 2008 at 1:29 am

When I was a young lad I had read a story about Muhammed's pet cat. Apparently when it was time to pray Muhammed found that his cat had fallen asleep on the sleeve of his robe. Instead of disturbing the cat he cut of the sleeve so that his cat could sleep undisturbed. I was very touched by that story.

Curious. In China, the same story is told about Emperor Ai of the Han dynasty and his male lover, Dong Xian, and as a result same-sex love is known as "The Love of the Cut Sleeve". I wonder if a link can be traced, or it's just minds thinking alike? Elsewhere it might be just told as a story of lateral thinking.

Do they have no guide-dogs in Saudi Arabia? Guide-cats? Or do the suppression-of-vice-promotion-of-virtue people break white walking sticks over their knees too?

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43. Comment #228382 by noamzur on August 12, 2008 at 1:47 am

One thing that bugs me about this - as far as I know women are prohibited to walk outside unaccompanied by men (in Saudi Arabia), or am I completely wrong? If this is the case, the men are in charge of stopping them flirting anyway, so this method (for what it's worth) wouldn't quite work there anyway.
Please correct me if I'm completely off target on this one.

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44. Comment #228395 by Telic on August 12, 2008 at 2:32 am

Having lived in Riyadh for 3 years, I have to say this story strikes me as odd.

Not only do I not remember ever seeing anyone walking a dog in public (plenty of feral dogs being run over), but religious laws are already much more strictly enforced there than in Jeddah for example.

So the idea of walking up to a female stranger in order to 'hit' on her seems pretty unlikely. Not only do you not know what she looks like because veil wearing is STRICLY enforced in public, but you're likely to get her punished for being some kind of 'whore', and you'll probably be given a few good whacks yourself.

I had a New Zealand friend out there who got seriously whacked on the back of his legs simply because his hair was considered to be too long by the religious police.

noamzur is also mostly correct in that women are always supposed to be accompanied by men; But the exception is where there is a group of women of say 4 or more in which case they don't have to have a male with them necessarily when they go to the shopping mall for example.

Even so, trying to hit on a group of women with your toy dog seems like a highly risky thing to do.
I'd be as wary as a male spider afraid of being eaten.

EDIT:
Makes me laugh to see that McDonalds in the picture. Riyadh had one on nearly every city block (or at least Burger King, or KFC instead).
So much anti-american rhetoric while they stuff their faces with more burgers than an Elvis convention. I've honestly never seen any other city in the world with more McDonalds than Riyadh - I reckon it should be renamed to McRiyadh.

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45. Comment #228397 by Geoff on August 12, 2008 at 2:35 am

the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice

...says it all, really.

Other Comments by Geoff

46. Comment #228404 by decius on August 12, 2008 at 2:53 am

Comment #228245 by Border Collie

And, thanks, decius ... I sprayed a mouthful of water all over my computer as I read your comment.

You're welcome, I hope no damage was done to your equipment.

Comment #228309 by eclampusvitus

Now, all we need is for the God Delusion to be translated into Arabic and air-dropped by the thousands into that "Holy" country.

You know, I think it is a really good idea, seriously. Except the air-drop part.

An Arabic translation available for free download on this site could go a long way. Richard won't lose any revenue. TGD will never be published in the Arab world, not in this millennium, anyway.

Other Comments by decius

47. Comment #228422 by rod-the-farmer on August 12, 2008 at 3:25 am

Muslim women are banned from buying cucumbers ? I had an instant flash of cucumber envy. Maybe they grow them bigger in N. America. Or was I thinking of zucchini ? My wife & I once hosted a birthday party for an unmarried female friend, and as a gag gift, gave her a really large zucchini, complete with a red balloon stretched over the smaller end, so she could practise safe sex.

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48. Comment #228430 by maxamillion on August 12, 2008 at 3:40 am

Why stop at Cucumbers ?

"They regarded the cucumber as male and tomato as female. Women were not allowed to buy cucumbers, only men.""

So does that mean that men that buy Tomato's are gay?

Female goats are in trouble also.

"They even killed female goats because their private parts were not covered and their tails were pointed upward, which they said was haram."

This story is about Al-Qa'eda in Iraq.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/2538545/Al-Qaeda-in-Iraq-alienated-by-cucumber-laws-and-brutality.html

Other Comments by maxamillion

49. Comment #228445 by GBile on August 12, 2008 at 4:00 am

How sick will it get?

These Saudi Arabian Neandertalers are spending a lot of money, conveniently fleeced out of our gasguzzler-owning pockets, to spread this complete nonsense into our own backyards.

Are we satisfied with writing (sometimes) humorous comments on this site, or can we actually do something to stop Muhammads (SBUH) legacy ?

Other Comments by GBile

50. Comment #228452 by irate_atheist on August 12, 2008 at 4:18 am

47. Comment #228422 by rod-the-farmer -

My wife & I once hosted a birthday party for an unmarried female friend, and as a gag gift, gave her a really large zucchini, complete with a red balloon stretched over the smaller end, so she could practise safe sex.

Ooh, how funny. I bet she really enjoyed that joke. [/sneering sarcasm]

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