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Thursday, August 14, 2008 | Reason : Commentary | print version Print | Comments |

Document We need to stop being such cowards about Islam

by Johann Hari, The Independent

Reposted from:
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-we-need-to-stop-being-such-cowards-about-islam-894361.html

This is a column condemning cowardice — including my own. It begins with the story of a novel you cannot read. The Jewel of Medina was written by a journalist called Sherry Jones. It recounts the life of Aisha, a girl who was married off at the age of six to a 50-year-old man called Mohamed ibn Abdallah. On her wedding day, Aisha was playing on a see-saw outside her home. Inside, she was being betrothed. The first she knew of it was when she was banned from playing out in the street with the other children. When she was nine, she was taken to live with her husband, now 53. He had sex with her. When she was 14, she was accused of adultery with a man closer to her own age. Not long after, Mohamed decreed that his wives must cover their faces and bodies, even though no other women in Arabia did.

You cannot read this story today — except in the Koran and the Hadith. The man Mohamed ibn Abdallah became known to Muslims as "the Prophet Mohamed", so our ability to explore this story is stunted. The Jewel of Medina was bought by Random House and primed to be a best-seller — before a University of Texas teacher saw proofs and declared it "a national security issue". Random House had visions of a re-run of the Rushdie or the Danish cartoons affairs. Sherry Jones's publisher has pulped the book. It's gone.

In Europe, we are finally abolishing the lingering blasphemy laws that hinder criticism of Christianity. But they are being succeeded by a new blasphemy law preventing criticism of Islam — enforced not by the state, but by jihadis. I seriously considered not writing this column, but the right to criticise religion is as precious — and hard-won — as the right to criticise government. We have to use it or lose it.

Some people will instantly ask: why bother criticising religion if it causes so much hassle? The answer is: look back at our history. How did Christianity lose its ability to terrorise people with phantasms of sin and Hell? How did it stop spreading shame about natural urges — pre-marital sex, masturbation or homosexuality? Because critics pored over the religion's stories and found gaping holes of logic or morality in them. They asked questions. How could an angel inseminate a virgin? Why does the Old Testament God command his followers to commit genocide? How can a man survive inside a whale?

Reinterpretation and ridicule crow-barred Christianity open. Ask enough tough questions and faith is inevitably pushed farther and farther back into the misty realm of metaphor — where it is less likely to inspire people to kill and die for it. But doubtful Muslims, and the atheists who support them, are being prevented from following this path. They cannot ask: what does it reveal about Mohamed that he married a young girl, or that he massacred a village of Jews who refused to follow him? You don't have to murder many Theo Van Goghs or pulp many Sherry Joneses to intimidate the rest. The greatest censorship is internal: it is in all the books that will never be written and all the films that will never be shot, because we are afraid.

We need to acknowledge the double-standard — and that it will cost Muslims in the end. Insulating a religion from criticism — surrounding it with an electric fence called "respect" — keeps it stunted at its most infantile and fundamentalist stage. The smart, questioning and instinctively moral Muslims — the majority — learn to be silent, or are shunned (at best). What would Christianity be like today if George Eliot, Mark Twain and Bertrand Russell had all been pulped? Take the most revolting rural Alabama church, and metastasise it.

Since Jones has brought it up, let us look at Mohamed's marriage to Aisha as a model for how we can conduct this conversation. It is true those were different times, and it may have been normal for grown men to have sex with prepubescent girls. The sources are not clear on this point. But whatever culture you live in, having sex when your body is not physically developed can be an excruciatingly painful experience. Among Vikings, it was more normal than today to have your arm chopped off, but that didn't mean it wasn't agony. If anything, Jones's book whitewashes this, suggesting that Mohamed's "gentleness" meant Aisha enjoyed it.

The story of Aisha also prompts another fundamentalist-busting discussion. You cannot say that Mohamed's decision to marry a young girl has to be judged by the standards of his time, and then demand that we follow his moral standards to the letter. Either we should follow his example literally, or we should critically evaluate it and choose for ourselves. Discussing this contradiction inevitably injects doubt — the mortal enemy of fanaticism (on The Independent's Open House blog later today, I'll be discussing how Aisha has become the central issue in a debate in Yemen about children and forced marriage).

So why do many people who cheer The Life Of Brian and Jerry Springer: The Opera turn into clucking Mary Whitehouses when it comes to Islam? If a book about Christ was being dumped because fanatics in Mississippi might object, we would be enraged. I feel this too. I am ashamed to say I would be more scathing if I was discussing Christianity. One reason is fear: the image of Theo Van Gogh lying on a pavement crying "Can't we just talk about this?" Of course we rationalise it, by asking: does one joke, one column, one novel make much difference? No. But cumulatively? Absolutely.

The other reason is more honourable, if flawed. There is very real and rising prejudice against Muslims across the West. The BBC recently sent out identically-qualified CVs to hundreds of employers. Those with Muslim names were 50 per cent less likely to get interviews. Criticisms of Islamic texts are sometimes used to justify US or Israeli military atrocities. Some critics of Muslims — Geert Wilders or Martin Amis — moot mass human rights abuses here in Europe. So some secularists reason: I have plenty of criticisms of Judaism, but I wouldn't choose to articulate them in Germany in 1933. Why try to question Islam now, when Muslims are being attacked by bigots?

But I live in the Muslim majority East End of London, and this isn't Weimar Germany. Muslims are secure enough to deal with some tough questions. It is condescending to treat Muslims like excitable children who cannot cope with the probing, mocking treatment we hand out to Christianity, Judaism and Buddhism. It is perfectly consistent to protect Muslims from bigotry while challenging the bigotries and absurdities within their holy texts.

There is now a pincer movement trying to silence critical discussion of Islam. To one side, fanatics threaten to kill you; to the other, critics call you "Islamophobic". But consistent atheism is not racism. On the contrary: it treats all people as mature adults who can cope with rational questions. When we pulp books out of fear of fundamentalism, we are decapitating the most precious freedom we have.

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1. Comment #229698 by Sargeist on August 14, 2008 at 12:28 am

 avatarAbsolutely and totally superb.

Thank you, Independent, perhaps you have just about stolen my allegiance from the Guardian.

EDIT:
It is condescending to treat Muslims like excitable children who cannot cope with the probing, mocking treatment we hand out to Christianity, Judaism and Buddhism.

This is true. But a fair number do behave that way. And children with guns and nuclear weapons are a little more scary than adults with them.

Other Comments by Sargeist

2. Comment #229700 by Dadeolus on August 14, 2008 at 12:31 am

I am standing up and applauding loudly. Couldn't agree more. The only way we'll deal with the ridiculousness of all religion is by the slow attrition we have used against christianity. If we are not even allowed to look at islam sideways, we'll never get rid of it!

Other Comments by Dadeolus

3. Comment #229701 by TomGoodfellow on August 14, 2008 at 12:32 am

Hear hear! I've a feeling this article will be quite popular here.

Other Comments by TomGoodfellow

4. Comment #229702 by elfinabout on August 14, 2008 at 12:32 am

 avatarBloody well said.

Other Comments by elfinabout

5. Comment #229703 by Logicel on August 14, 2008 at 12:44 am

 avatarExcellently written with a passionate undercurrent. Short, clear, and covers all the important points

Other Comments by Logicel

6. Comment #229705 by SteveN on August 14, 2008 at 12:47 am

 avatarA surprisingly and refreshingly direct article for a major newspaper, I think. It may just be coincidence, but I have the impression that the conciousness-raising efforts of Richard, Sam and the Hitch (and, dare I say, Pat Condell) with regards to the public criticism of religion are starting to pay off.

Other Comments by SteveN

7. Comment #229706 by Apemanblues on August 14, 2008 at 12:54 am

 avatarThere's no doubt about it. The media both in Britain and America are self censoring out of fear, and as a result, so are the general population. Even a benign reference to Islam in polite company will cause people to shuffle uncomfortably.

Another thing that bugs me is when Christians say "You joke about my religion, but I bet you wouldn't say that about Islam!". What a bizarre thing to say! Even if true, am I supposed to somehow thank them and respect them because their religion has recently decided to not kill it's critics? Oh thank you very much. Thank you for not killing the heathens anymore.

Silly me for thinking that 'not killing critics' was the default ethical position of any decent human being, not a bargaining chip to be used for guilt-tripping people into self censorship.

Other Comments by Apemanblues

8. Comment #229707 by clatz on August 14, 2008 at 12:56 am

 avatarI live in the east end as well. Close to 100 meters from a mosque in fact.

I couldn't give two shit's if criticism of Islam is unpalatable to the followers round here, it will do them some good to hear it. It may even embolden the women to tell these clowns to pull their head's in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxA4lmxjIbk&feature=related

Bring it on!!!

Other Comments by clatz

9. Comment #229708 by cyberguy on August 14, 2008 at 12:57 am

 avatarBest article I have read in weeks!

Other Comments by cyberguy

10. Comment #229710 by Enlightenme.. on August 14, 2008 at 12:59 am

 avatarThe whole notion of 'Islamophobia' is an invention of western cultural relativists, and is a gift to Muhammadans who wish to stifle criticism.

Other Comments by Enlightenme..

11. Comment #229713 by utelme on August 14, 2008 at 1:01 am

Good luck England, I wish you all the best but I think it's too late for you. You've been debating this issue for how long? It's obvious you still don't know what to do. You're like the victim that's getting bashed, trying to talk the bully out of it, crying for mummy and not lifting a finger to help yourself. Take on your attackers one at a time, trying to take on Islam and at the same time his buddies Christianity and the other sycophants is a hopeless cause.

Other Comments by utelme

12. Comment #229714 by Raiko on August 14, 2008 at 1:03 am

 avatar
How did Christianity lose its ability to terrorise people with phantasms of sin and Hell? How did it stop spreading shame about natural urges - pre-marital sex, masturbation or homosexuality?


I must have missed when that happened. ...?

Other Comments by Raiko

13. Comment #229716 by Codec on August 14, 2008 at 1:12 am

What a great article, more power to you.

Other Comments by Codec

14. Comment #229717 by Tumara Baap on August 14, 2008 at 1:20 am

The Koran and hadith ought to be critiqued to bits. However, it's a stretch to point out these absurdities in the koran and then link them to deviant social behaviour. Such a link would be tenuous. Muslims, as people of most other religions, have rarely ever critically read and imbibed the contents of their holy book. Sure, they mindlessly blabber its verses. But their perspective is colored by other historical muslim figures, contemporary culture, sufi "saints", local traditions and folklore. I think it was Taner Edis, the Turkish-American physicist who pointed out that the sort of narrow Wahabi interpretation of Islam as portrayed in End of Faith (even though accurate) is just not how the vast majority of Muslims view their own faith. Caution therefore ought to be exercised before condemning all Muslims as being nourished by something sick. Reality is a little more complex. That said, there ought to be no hesitation in frankly stating historical facts. Mohammed was a ruthless, bloodthirsty, power hungry, plagiarizing, caravan raiding, sex obsessed murderer. Ibn Warraq gives one of the most sober and academically responsible accounts of this horrible human being.

Other Comments by Tumara Baap

15. Comment #229718 by Peter_on_Sax on August 14, 2008 at 1:27 am

I see that the book "The Jewel of Medina" is listed on Amazon. See:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jewel-Medina-Sherry-Jones/dp/0345503163

The book is not yet available, but you can pre-order it. Perhaps a full order book will encourage publication.

Other Comments by Peter_on_Sax

16. Comment #229721 by Christopher Davis on August 14, 2008 at 1:33 am

 avatarGood article. I agree with most everything except this...

"The smart, questioning and instinctively moral Muslims â€" the majority â€"...."

I realize this guy is probably referring to Muslims who live in the west, but he needs to clarify that. There are entire nations where 99% of the population are none of these. Islam is to blame.

Other Comments by Christopher Davis

17. Comment #229723 by Buddha on August 14, 2008 at 1:39 am

 avatarCan I please ask that you all go over to the comments section on the Independent site and express your support for Johann Hari. There are an awful lot of ignorant dimwits posting there at the moment.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-we-need-to-stop-being-such-cowards-about-islam-894361.html

Other Comments by Buddha

18. Comment #229726 by PJG on August 14, 2008 at 1:49 am

 avatarExcellent, excellent article.

BFKate

I think you do him a disservice.

To be a self-publicist is one thing. To put your head above the parapet to the extent he has by writing this article in order to publicise something (for ANY reason) is quite something else. He may well have written his own death sentence - I doubt he has done that as a publicity stunt. Even if he has, he has highlighted a massively important issue. I, for one, applaud him for that.

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19. Comment #229728 by AllanW on August 14, 2008 at 1:57 am

 avatarI enjoyed the article. It makes the points simply, clearly and quite pointedly. Well done Johann.

The only slight criticism I'd make is around his;

'We need to acknowledge the double-standard â€" and that it will cost Muslims in the end.'

He goes on to make sound progress in explaining that but the 'in the end' part grated on me. It may be true (no-one will know until a vast amount of time has played out) but it implies that we need NOW to just hold on and let time sort out the problem; I disagree. As the rest of the article makes plain, everyone who holds tolerance and reason dearly needs to take every opportunity to expose and ridicule examples of intolerance and unreason. Not just wait for the nebulous forces of time to sort the problem for us.

Other Comments by AllanW

20. Comment #229731 by PJG on August 14, 2008 at 2:02 am

 avatarBFKate

I have no problem with your assessment of the man - maybe he is everything you claim, but it is no reason to dismiss his article. Making ad hominem attacks is one of the things we criticise people for on this site.

Other Comments by PJG

21. Comment #229734 by Fanusi Khiyal on August 14, 2008 at 2:05 am

Excellent article, it needs to be said more and more.

But the question arises: why have we become such cowards? The answer lies in the fact that we have been told time and time again that the legacy of the West is purely negative, only a stain on humanity, instead of the truth - that the West is the greatest and best civilization in human history and that we need make no apologies for standing up for it and need accept no lectures for being proud of it.

BFKate I must say that I find your comments distasteful in the extreme. I do not notice any articles that you have written fighting against this, I don't notice you doing much yourself except whine. I really don't notice any evidence cited by you to support your condemnation of Hari.

Also, what the hell is this about 'supporting a fatwa'? So you support the murder of those whose writings you find distasteful?

I'm filing this under part of the problem.

Other Comments by Fanusi Khiyal

22. Comment #229736 by suffolkthinker on August 14, 2008 at 2:07 am

Just remember that if you do you're playing right into Hari's little ego. I'm as Islamaphobic as the next woman but I draw the line at supporting this preening fools game. Quite frankly I don't care what you think about the author from other sources, I completely agree with this article and support what is says wholeheartedly.

Other Comments by suffolkthinker

23. Comment #229737 by PJG on August 14, 2008 at 2:08 am

 avatarBFKate

from Wiki

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim.


I haven't seen you make a single attack on the argument (article), only the man.

Other Comments by PJG

24. Comment #229739 by beeline on August 14, 2008 at 2:14 am

 avatarBFKate, just because you despise his ethics for preaching on popular issues (and what else is a journalist supposed to do?), it doesn't necessarily follow that the message in his article is any less incisive, or something that we shouldn't whole-heartedly support.

Attack the issues, not the people.

Other Comments by beeline

25. Comment #229741 by Fanusi Khiyal on August 14, 2008 at 2:17 am

Okay, BFKate thanks for the evidence. Still, not all of those quotes are wrong - George Gallow is a pimp and prostitute for fascism and Islam and totalitarianism.

Hari is off the wall about Mark Steyn, but defending his right to free speech shows that he at least get's the idea of principle.

Etc. The basic point seems to me that if he is beginning to come to his senses about Islam and its evil, isn't this something to support? So what if he does or does not mean it - this still works for us.

Other Comments by Fanusi Khiyal

26. Comment #229742 by PJG on August 14, 2008 at 2:17 am

 avatar beeline
Attack the issues, not the people.


I agree - unless it is Dinesh d'Souza (JOKE!)

Other Comments by PJG

27. Comment #229744 by Szymanowski on August 14, 2008 at 2:19 am

 avatarEh? Since when did someone's egoism make his/her opinions untrustworthy?

And what in the article is an unsubstantiated opinion rather than a reasoned point?

Other Comments by Szymanowski

28. Comment #229746 by Goldy on August 14, 2008 at 2:22 am

 avatarComment #229713 by utelme
You read too much American propaganda. Visit Britain then write something.
BTW - creationism is not science, even if you call it ID
;-)

Other Comments by Goldy

29. Comment #229747 by PJG on August 14, 2008 at 2:24 am

 avatar
Fanusi

You called me BJKate. You little prick is that a piece of clever sexual innuendo? BlowJobKate?

About what I'd expect from someone who needs Johann Hari to tell them what to think.


OK - now shall we move on to some adult postings?

Other Comments by PJG

30. Comment #229750 by Stewart on August 14, 2008 at 2:27 am

 avatarWell, I read through it, found it uniformly excellent, with no obvious weaknesses and moved on to the comments to see most agreed that it was outstanding. It was dismaying to see voices against and still more to see that it was Hari's character they were arguing against, and what's more, using second-hand ad hominems to do it with. You're never going to find someone perfect who articulates your views; no one is flawless. I enjoy, to differing degrees, both Hari and Steyn, for example, and don't enjoy the fact that there seems to be such animosity between them. If someone you despise for reasons you think are good happens to write something you can't fault, that is precisely not the time to bring in the prejudices you have against him as an argument against what he wrote. It is the perfect time to reevaluate and look very critically at why you had difficulty swallowing a good argument merely because of who it came from.

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31. Comment #229754 by Peacebeuponme on August 14, 2008 at 2:33 am

You cannot say that Mohamed's decision to marry a young girl has to be judged by the standards of his time, and then demand that we follow his moral standards to the letter.
What an excellent point.

Hari has produced another well written, thought-provoking article. Increasingly one of the best voices of reason in the UK.

BFKate: Please provide examples of this 'preening' you talk about, or else resist laying down such thoughtless rubbish.

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme

32. Comment #229755 by Eventhorizon on August 14, 2008 at 2:33 am

 avatarBFKate

Did somebody get out of bed on the wrong side or what?

Other Comments by Eventhorizon

33. Comment #229756 by Goldy on August 14, 2008 at 2:35 am

 avatarFanusi
But the question arises: why have we become such cowards?
We haven't. Not really. Tolerant, yes. Maybe condescendingly tolerant, but never cowards.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1038747/The-world-shocked-Italian-sunbathers-ignoring-dead-gipsy-girls--But-Italy-showing-chilling-Roma-children.html
When the shit really hits the fan, European can show a callous, chilling indifference. Muslims are pushing the boundaries - soon they shall probably reap the rewards some deserve, but not the majority.
I know you see me as the apologist for Islam, but the vast majority don't want this shit. Don't quote the statistics at me, I have the real numbers - really we are talking of the tiny minority who are causing trouble.
Europe's problem is that we don't use our laws. Our politicians are too lily livered and worried about repercussions. If they had the balls, they'd probably find the majority of the "despised" religious minority would actually support them. Only trouble is, the minority of the minority appear to have infiltrated the government (all those "moderate" advisors are not even worthy of being spat at, such is their real agenda).
Muslims are, on the whole, like us. People like us. They change, they are not brainwashed fuckwits. What is dangerous for us is to attack all of them, pushing those that are on our side (the vast majority) to the extremists.

Other Comments by Goldy

34. Comment #229758 by beeline on August 14, 2008 at 2:38 am

 avatarBFKate, imagine, for a minute, that this article did not have Johann Hari's name attached to it. Would the arguments contained within it be somehow better?

Do you think it would be okay for everyone else here to ignore the content of all your posts, just because it has your username attached to them, and you have already shown yourself to be a thoroughly abusive and unpleasant conversationalist? Do you think we should discount the credibility of your posts because of your previous behaviour.

Tough one, that.

Other Comments by beeline

35. Comment #229759 by Peacebeuponme on August 14, 2008 at 2:38 am

BF Kate #229735
From his wikipedia page.
Great quotes you have there Johan has stood up and called all of those on yor list for some pretty nasty, or at least controversial (and therefore worthy of strenuous rebuttal) comments. I don't see the problem.

I'm not sure how he could oppose those views, as a writer, without attracting accusations of preening or self-publicism from you.

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme

36. Comment #229761 by Goldy on August 14, 2008 at 2:43 am

 avatarBFKate, it doesn't matter what your personal opinion of a person is, all this person does is reflect the views that readers want. The majority views. Railing against him doesn't change the fact that people believe what he writes, the people feel the same way as him.
So don't go trying to defame him or belittle him - his views are topical and popular. If there is something you don't like, get to the source of the matter. Like me - but be assured, you are not going to get any popularity votes.
Don't attack the messenger, attack the message. If you think it is wrong, say so. Don't tell us the messenger is lying.

Other Comments by Goldy

37. Comment #229762 by Darwin's badger on August 14, 2008 at 2:44 am

 avatarI did enjoy the article, but now I know that Busted think that Hari is a c&nt, I've changed my mind. The man's a fool!
* insert rolly-eyes emoticon*

Other Comments by Darwin's badger

38. Comment #229763 by Laurie Fraser on August 14, 2008 at 2:44 am

 avatarThis is an excellent article. Structured, logical, and passionate. It could have been written by Adolf Hitler and I would still applaud it, because it tells the truth. BFKate, methinks you protest too much.

Other Comments by Laurie Fraser

39. Comment #229764 by Peacebeuponme on August 14, 2008 at 2:46 am

BFKate
Thanks for telling me not to have an opinion. Silly bastard.
I don't recall saying that. More an appeal for you to back up your position instead of just laying down unsubstantiated insults. I didn't ask you to stop posting.

When a theist calls Richard Dawkins 'vitriolic' I would argue that point in the same way.

Whe you have opinions, and post them on the web. you will find that people disagree with you and ask you to defend them.

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme

40. Comment #229765 by lol mahmood on August 14, 2008 at 2:50 am

 avatar
It's not ad hominem. Ad hominem would be me calling him names for no reason. My arguement is that his position as an egoist makes his opinion untrustworthy.

From his wikipedia page....


Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not sure what all the snippets from Hari's website are meant to illustrate. Could you explain the context and implications of each one, please? So far, your dislike appears to be on the grounds that he's a bit egotistical and seeks argument. In other words, he's human, rather than perfect...

Other Comments by lol mahmood

41. Comment #229766 by beeline on August 14, 2008 at 2:50 am

 avatarWell, I don't know about everyone else, but I'm going to take BFKate's sagely advice and just ignore the arguments given by anybody who's satisfied me that they're untrustworthy.

Or an attention-seeking bigot.

Other Comments by beeline

42. Comment #229767 by Peacebeuponme on August 14, 2008 at 2:50 am

BFkate
No. I just dared express a view about Hari that isn't in line with his neo con groupies.
Internet discussion rule #238: Whenever your view on a public individual is opposed by 3 or more people, group them together as 'followers' or 'groupies' of said person. This attacks their objectivty and avoids actually dealing with the issues they bring up.

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme

43. Comment #229769 by Goldy on August 14, 2008 at 2:53 am

 avatar
Don't go trying to tell me what to fucking say.

Why are you fucking stupid as well as fucking rude? Don't like being told the truth? Stupid bitch.

Other Comments by Goldy

44. Comment #229770 by Laurie Fraser on August 14, 2008 at 2:53 am

 avatarHari may be a neo-con. So what? Hitchens expresses views about the Iraq war that I abhor, but when he's on the topic of religion and its stupidity, he's spot on. It is juvenile in the extreme to reject someone's complete portfolio on the basis that you disagree with one part of it.

Other Comments by Laurie Fraser

45. Comment #229771 by Szymanowski on August 14, 2008 at 2:54 am

 avatarBFKate
Hari is untrustworthy because he picks fights because of it.
Examples?
Being a self publicist makes you untrustworthy and ALWAYS HAS.
You haven't substantiated that (sorry, using Caps Lock doesn't make things more true).
So this time his view aligns with mine SO WHAT? I have to give the guy my support? Fuck that. I like (strike that) I HAVE to trust that the people I support are worth supporting. Mouthing a couple of views that line up with mine doesn't make me fall in love with nasty little twats like Hari.
Who's asking you to "fall in love" with Hari? Isn't this discussion about whether to agree and support what this article says?

Other Comments by Szymanowski

46. Comment #229772 by Goldy on August 14, 2008 at 2:54 am

 avatarEvening Laurie!

Other Comments by Goldy

47. Comment #229773 by Stewart on August 14, 2008 at 2:54 am

 avatarBFKate

Thought experiment: what would you have said to this piece if it had been unattributed?

I'm not out to have an argument with you, but you do seem to be very, very angry and I think it's self-defeating. I don't think you're posting in order for others to dismiss what you say; a calm, measured reaction will make that more difficult to do.

The vast majority of people whose views we read in the media only ever chose such professions because of their egos. To use the possession of an over-inflated ego as the main reason not to trust one of them seems one of the least effective strategies one could employ. Eliminate all the overblown egos from the field and there won't be many commentators left whose opinions we could begin evaluating.

Other Comments by Stewart

48. Comment #229774 by Laurie Fraser on August 14, 2008 at 2:58 am

 avatarHey Goldy! Interesting thread, what?

Stewart - excellent point.

Other Comments by Laurie Fraser

49. Comment #229776 by Stewart on August 14, 2008 at 3:00 am

 avatarSorry, I was beaten to my thought experiment suggestion.

BFKate, ignore the insults. Reacting to them is attacking the weakest arguments. What about the strongest ones?

Other Comments by Stewart

50. Comment #229777 by Laurie Fraser on August 14, 2008 at 3:01 am

 avatarComment #229775 by BFKate

"his views coincide with mine this time"

So, that means Hari is correct in this instance? Problem solved.

Other Comments by Laurie Fraser
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