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Sunday, August 24, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version Print | Comments

Document A Teacher on the Front Line as Faith and Science Clash

by NY Times

Thanks to alykaystati for the link. See PZ Myers post about this article as well.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/24/education/24evolution.html?_r=1&ei=5070&emc=eta1&oref=slogin

A Teacher on the Front Line as Faith and Science Clash
By AMY HARMON

ORANGE PARK, Fla. — David Campbell switched on the overhead projector and wrote "Evolution" in the rectangle of light on the screen.

He scanned the faces of the sophomores in his Biology I class. Many of them, he knew from years of teaching high school in this Jacksonville suburb, had been raised to take the biblical creation story as fact. His gaze rested for a moment on Bryce Haas, a football player who attended the 6 a.m. prayer meetings of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes in the school gymnasium.

"If I do this wrong," Mr. Campbell remembers thinking on that humid spring morning, "I'll lose him."

In February, the Florida Department of Education modified its standards to explicitly require, for the first time, the state's public schools to teach evolution, calling it "the organizing principle of life science." Spurred in part by legal rulings against school districts seeking to favor religious versions of natural history, over a dozen other states have also given more emphasis in recent years to what has long been the scientific consensus: that all of the diverse life forms on Earth descended from a common ancestor, through a process of mutation and natural selection, over billions of years.

But in a nation where evangelical Protestantism and other religious traditions stress a literal reading of the biblical description of God's individually creating each species, students often arrive at school fearing that evolution, and perhaps science itself, is hostile to their faith.

Some come armed with "Ten questions to ask your biology teacher about evolution," a document circulated on the Internet that highlights supposed weaknesses in evolutionary theory. Others scrawl their opposition on homework assignments. Many just tune out.

With a mandate to teach evolution but little guidance as to how, science teachers are contriving their own ways to turn a culture war into a lesson plan. How they fare may bear on whether a new generation of Americans embraces scientific evidence alongside religious belief.

"If you see something you don't understand, you have to ask 'why?' or 'how?' " Mr. Campbell often admonished his students at Ridgeview High School.

Yet their abiding mistrust in evolution, he feared, jeopardized their belief in the basic power of science to explain the natural world — and their ability to make sense of it themselves.

Passionate on the subject, Mr. Campbell had helped to devise the state's new evolution standards, which will be phased in starting this fall. A former Navy flight instructor not used to pulling his punches, he fought hard for their passage. But with his students this spring, he found himself treading carefully, as he tried to bridge an ideological divide that stretches well beyond his classroom.

A Cartoon and a Challenge

He started with Mickey Mouse.

On the projector, Mr. Campbell placed slides of the cartoon icon: one at his skinny genesis in 1928; one from his 1940 turn as the impish Sorcerer's Apprentice; and another of the rounded, ingratiating charmer of Mouse Club fame.

"How," he asked his students, "has Mickey changed?"

Natives of Disney World's home state, they waved their hands and called out answers.

"His tail gets shorter," Bryce volunteered.

"Bigger eyes!" someone else shouted.

"He looks happier," one girl observed. "And cuter."

Mr. Campbell smiled. "Mickey evolved," he said. "And Mickey gets cuter because Walt Disney makes more money that way. That is 'selection.' "

Later, he would get to the touchier part, about how the minute changes in organisms that drive biological change arise spontaneously, without direction. And how a struggle for existence among naturally varying individuals has helped to generate every species, living and extinct, on the planet.

For now, it was enough that they were listening.

He strode back to the projector, past his menagerie of snakes and baby turtles, and pointed to the word he had written in the beginning of class.

"Evolution has been the focus of a lot of debate in our state this year," he said. "If you read the newspapers, everyone is arguing, 'is it a theory, is it not a theory?' The answer is, we can observe it. We can see it happen, just like you can see it in Mickey."

Some students were nodding. As the bell rang, Mr. Campbell stood by the door, satisfied. But Bryce, heavyset with blond curls, left with a stage whisper as he slung his knapsack over his shoulder.

"I can see something else, too," he said. "I can see that there's no way I came from an ape."

Fighting for a Mandate

As recently as three years ago, the guidelines that govern science education in more than a third of American public schools gave exceedingly short shrift to evolution, according to reviews by education experts. Some still do, science advocates contend. Just this summer, religious advocates lobbied successfully for a Louisiana law that protects the right of local schools to teach alternative theories for the origin of species, even though there are none that scientists recognize as valid. The Florida Legislature is expected to reopen debate on a similar bill this fall.

Even states that require teachers to cover the basics of evolution, like natural selection, rarely ask them to explain in any detail how humans, in particular, evolved from earlier life forms. That subject can be especially fraught for young people taught to believe that the basis for moral conduct lies in God's having created man uniquely in his own image.

The poor treatment of evolution in some state education standards may reflect the public's widely held creationist beliefs. In Gallup polls over the last 25 years, nearly half of American adults have consistently said they believe God created all living things in their present form, sometime in the last 10,000 years. But a 2005 defeat in federal court for a school board in Dover, Pa., that sought to cast doubt on evolution gave legal ammunition to evolution proponents on school boards and in statehouses across the country.

In its wake, Ohio removed a requirement that biology classes include "critical analysis" of evolution. Efforts to pass bills that implicitly condone the teaching of religious theories for life's origins have failed in at least five states. And as science standards come up for regular review, other states have added material on evolution to student achievement tests, and required teachers to spend more time covering it.

When Florida's last set of science standards came out in 1996, soon after Mr. Campbell took the teaching job at Ridgeview, he studied them in disbelief. Though they included the concept that biological "changes over time" occur, the word evolution was not mentioned.

He called his district science supervisor. "Is this really what they want us to teach for the next 10 years?" he demanded.

In 2000, when the independent Thomas B. Fordham Foundation evaluated the evolution education standards of all 50 states, Florida was among 12 to receive a grade of F. (Kansas, which drew international attention in 1999 for deleting all mention of evolution and later embracing supernatural theories, received an F-minus.)

Mr. Campbell, 52, who majored in biology while putting himself through Cornell University on a Reserve Officers Training Corps scholarship, taught evolution anyway. But like nearly a third of biology teachers across the country, and more in his politically conservative district, he regularly heard from parents voicing complaints.

With no school policy to back him up, he spent less time on the subject than he would have liked. And he bit back his irritation at Teresa Yancey, a biology teacher down the hall who taught a unit she called "Evolution or NOT."

Animals do adapt to their environments, Ms. Yancey tells her students, but evolution alone can hardly account for the appearance of wholly different life forms. She leaves it up to them to draw their own conclusions. But when pressed, she tells them, "I think God did it."

Mr. Campbell was well aware of her opinion. "I don't think we have this great massive change over time where we go from fish to amphibians, from monkeys to man," she once told him. "We see lizards with different-shaped tails, we don't see blizzards — the lizard bird."

With some approximation of courtesy, Mr. Campbell reminded her that only a tiny fraction of organisms that ever lived had been preserved in fossils. Even so, he informed his own students, scientists have discovered thousands of fossils that provide evidence of one species transitioning into another — including feathered dinosaurs.

But at the inaugural meeting of the Florida Citizens for Science, which he co-founded in 2005, he vented his frustration. "The kids are getting hurt," Mr. Campbell told teachers and parents. "We need to do something."

The Dover decision in December of that year dealt a blow to "intelligent design," which posits that life is too complex to be explained by evolution alone, and has been widely promoted by religious advocates since the Supreme Court's 1987 ban on creationism in public schools. The federal judge in the case called the doctrine "creationism re-labeled," and found the Dover school board had violated the constitutional separation of church and state by requiring teachers to mention it. The school district paid $1 million in legal costs.

Inspired, the Florida citizens group soon contacted similar groups in other states advocating better teaching of evolution. And in June 2007, when his supervisor invited Mr. Campbell to help draft Florida's new standards, he quickly accepted.

During the next six months, he made the drive to three-day meetings in Orlando and Tallahassee six times. By January 2008 the Board of Education budget had run out. But the 30 teachers on the standards committee paid for their own gasoline to attend their last meeting.

Mr. Campbell quietly rejoiced in their final draft. Under the proposed new standards, high school students could be tested on how fossils and DNA provide evidence for evolution. Florida students would even be expected to learn how their own species fits into the tree of life.

Whether the state's board of education would adopt them, however, was unclear. There were heated objections from some religious organizations and local school boards. In a stormy public comment session, Mr. Campbell defended his fellow writers against complaints that they had not included alternative explanations for life's diversity, like intelligent design.

His attempt at humor came with an edge:

"We also failed to include astrology, alchemy and the concept of the moon being made of green cheese," he said. "Because those aren't science, either."

The evening of the vote, Mr. Campbell learned by e-mail message from an education official that the words "scientific theory of" had been inserted in front of "evolution" to appease opponents on the board. Even so, the standards passed by only a 4-to-3 vote.

Mr. Campbell cringed at the wording, which seemed to suggest evolution was a kind of hunch instead of the only accepted scientific explanation for the great variety of life on Earth. But he turned off his computer without scrolling through all of the frustrated replies from other writers. The standards, he thought, were finally in place.

Now he just had to teach.

The Limits of Science

The morning after his Mickey Mouse gambit, he bounced a pink rubber Spalding ball on the classroom's hard linoleum floor.

"Gravity," he said. "I can do this until the end of the semester, and I can only assume that it will work the same way each time."

He looked around the room. "Bryce, what is it called when natural laws are suspended — what do you call it when water changes into wine?"

"Miracle?" Bryce supplied.

Mr. Campbell nodded. The ball hit the floor again.

"Science explores nature by testing and gathering data," he said. "It can't tell you what's right and wrong. It doesn't address ethics. But it is not anti-religion. Science and religion just ask different questions."

He grabbed the ball and held it still.

"Can anybody think of a question science can't answer?"

"Is there a God?" shot back a boy near the window.

"Good," said Mr. Campbell, an Anglican who attends church most Sundays. "Can't test it. Can't prove it, can't disprove it. It's not a question for science."

ryce raised his hand.

"But there is scientific proof that there is a God," he said. "Over in Turkey there's a piece of wood from Noah's ark that came out of a glacier."

Mr. Campbell chose his words carefully.

"If I could prove, tomorrow, that that chunk of wood is not from the ark, is not even 500 years old and not even from the right kind of tree — would that damage your religious faith at all?"

Bryce thought for a moment.

"No," he said.

The room was unusually quiet.

"Faith is not based on science," Mr. Campbell said. "And science is not based on faith. I don't expect you to 'believe' the scientific explanation of evolution that we're going to talk about over the next few weeks."

"But I do," he added, "expect you to understand it."

The Lure of T. Rex

Over the next weeks, Mr. Campbell regaled his students with the array of evidence on which evolutionary theory is based. To see how diverse species are related, they studied the embryos of chickens and fish, and the anatomy of horses, cats, seals and bats.

To simulate natural selection, they pretended to be birds picking light-colored moths off tree bark newly darkened by soot.

But the dearth of questions made him uneasy.

"I still don't have a good feeling on how well any of them are internalizing any of this," he worried aloud.

When he was 5, Mr. Campbell's aunt took him on a trip from his home in Connecticut to the American Museum of Natural History in New York City. At the end of the day, she had to pry him away from the Tyrannosaurus rex.

If this didn't hook them, he thought one Wednesday morning, admiring the cast of a T. rex brain case he set on one of the classroom's long, black laboratory tables, nothing would. Carefully, he distributed several other fossils, including two he had collected himself.

He placed particular hope in the jaw of a 34-million-year-old horse ancestor. Through chance, selection and extinction, he had told his class, today's powerfully muscled, shoulder-high horses had evolved from squat dog-sized creatures.

The diminutive jaw, from an early horse that stood about two feet tall, offered proof of how the species had changed over time. And maybe, if they accepted the evolution of Equus caballus, they could begin to contemplate the origin of Homo sapiens.

Mr. Campbell instructed the students to spend three minutes at each station. He watched Bryce and his partner, Allie Farris, look at the illustration of a modern horse jaw he had posted next to the fossil of its Mesohippus ancestor. Hovering, he kicked himself for not acquiring a real one to make the comparison more tangible. But they lingered, well past their time limit. Bryce pointed to the jaw in the picture and held the fossil up to his own mouth.

"It's maybe the size of a dog's jaw or a cat's," he said, measuring.

He looked at Allie. "That's pretty cool, don't you think?"

After class, Mr. Campbell fed the turtles. It was time for a test, he thought.

'I Don't Believe in This'

Bryce came to Ridgeview as a freshman from a Christian private school where he attended junior high.

At 16, Bryce, whose parents had made sure he read the Bible for an hour each Sunday as a child, no longer went to church. But he did make it to the predawn meetings of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, a national Christian sports organization whose mission statement defines the Bible as the "authoritative Word of God." Life had been dark after his father died a year ago, he told the group, but things had been going better recently, and he attributed that to God's help.

When the subject of evolution came up at a recent fellowship meeting, several of the students rolled their eyes.

"I think a big reason evolutionists believe what they believe is they don't want to have to be ruled by God," said Josh Rou, 17.

"Evolution is telling you that you're like an animal," Bryce agreed. "That's why people stand strong with Christianity, because it teaches people to lead a good life and not do wrong."

Doug Daugherty, 17, allowed that he liked science.

"I'll watch the Discovery Channel and say 'Ooh, that's interesting,' " he said. "But there's a difference between thinking something is interesting and believing it."

The last question on the test Mr. Campbell passed out a week later asked students to explain two forms of evidence supporting evolutionary change and natural selection.

"I refuse to answer," Bryce wrote. "I don't believe in this."

Losing Heart

Mr. Campbell looked at the calendar. Perhaps this semester, he thought, he would skip over the touchy subject of human origins. The new standards, after all, had not gone into effect. "Maybe I'll just give them the fetal pig dissection," he said with a sigh.

It wasn't just Bryce. Many of the students, Mr. Campbell sensed, were not grasping the basic principles of biological evolution. If he forced them to look at themselves in the evolutionary mirror, he risked alienating them entirely.

The discovery that a copy of "Evolution Exposed," published by the creationist organization Answers in Genesis, was circulating among the class did not raise his flagging spirits. The book lists each reference to evolution in the biology textbook Mr. Campbell uses and offers an explanation for why it is wrong.

Where the textbook states, for example, that "Homo sapiens appeared in Africa 200,000 years ago based on fossil and DNA evidence," "Exposed" counters that "The fossil evidence of hominids (alleged human ancestors) is extremely limited." A pastor at a local church, Mr. Campbell learned, had given a copy of "Exposed" to every graduating senior the previous year.

But the next week, at a meeting in Tallahassee where he sorted the new science standards into course descriptions for other teachers, the words he had helped write reverberated in his head.

"Evolution," the standards said, "is the fundamental concept underlying all biology."

When he got home, he dug out his slide illustrating the nearly exact match between human and chimpanzee chromosomes, and prepared for a contentious class.

Facing the Challenge

"True or false?" he barked the following week, wearing a tie emblazoned with the DNA double helix. "Humans evolved from chimpanzees."

The students stared at him, unsure. "True," some called out.

"False," he said, correcting a common misconception. "But we do share a common ancestor."

More gently now, he started into the story of how, five or six million years ago, a group of primates in Africa split. Some stayed in the forest and evolved into chimps; others — our ancestors — migrated to the grasslands.

On the projector, he placed a picture of the hand of a gibbon, another human cousin. "There's the opposable thumb," he said, wiggling his own. "But theirs is a longer hand because they live in trees, and their arms are very long."

Mr. Campbell bent over, walking on the outer part of his foot. He had intended to mimic how arms became shorter and legs became longer. He planned to tell the class how our upright gait, built on a body plan inherited from tree-dwelling primates, made us prone to lower back pain. And how, over the last two million years, our jaws have grown shorter, which is why wisdom teeth so often need to be removed.

But too many hands had gone up.

He answered as fast as he could, his pulse quickening as it had rarely done since his days on his high school debate team.

"If that really happened," Allie wanted to know, "wouldn't you still see things evolving?"

"We do," he said. "But this is happening over millions of years. With humans, if I'm lucky I might see four generations in my lifetime."

Caitlin Johnson, 15, was next.

"If we had to have evolved from something," she wanted to know, "then whatever we evolved from, where did IT evolve from?"

"It came from earlier primates," Mr. Campbell replied.

"And where did those come from?"

"You can trace mammals back 250 million years," he said. The first ones, he reminded them, were small, mouselike creatures that lived in the shadow of dinosaurs.

Other students were jumping in.

"Even if we did split off from chimps," someone asked, "how come they stayed the same but we changed?"

"They didn't stay the same," Mr. Campbell answered. "They were smaller, more slender — they've changed a lot."

Bryce had been listening, studying the hand of the monkey on the screen .

"How does our hand go from being that long to just a smaller hand?" he said. "I don't see how that happens."

"If a smaller hand is beneficial," Mr. Campbell said, "individuals with small hands will have more children, while those with bigger hands will disappear."

"But if we came from them, why are they still around?"

"Just because a new population evolves doesn't mean the old one dies out," Mr. Campbell said.

Bryce spoke again. This time it wasn't a question.

"So it just doesn't stop," he said.

"No," said Mr. Campbell. "If the environment is suitable, a species can go on for a long time."

"What about us," Bryce pursued. "Are we going to evolve?"

Mr. Campbell stopped, and took a breath.

"Yes," he said. "Unless we go extinct."

When the bell rang, he knew that he had not convinced Bryce, and perhaps many of the others. But that week, he gave the students an opportunity to answer the questions they had missed on the last test. Grading Bryce's paper later in the quiet of his empty classroom, he saw that this time, the question that asked for evidence of evolutionary change had been answered.

Comments 1 - 50 of 303 | | View Alternate Comment Thread

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1. Comment #236364 by decius on August 24, 2008 at 2:34 pm

 avatarCan we have this raving idiot banned for good?

Other Comments by decius

2. Comment #236368 by SPS on August 24, 2008 at 2:37 pm

Read this yesterday. Nice article.

Other Comments by SPS

3. Comment #236369 by Layla Nasreddin on August 24, 2008 at 2:37 pm

 avatarSoo...what did you think of how Campbell navigated the science vs. religion issue?

"Science explores nature by testing and gathering data," he said. "It can't tell you what's right and wrong. It doesn't address ethics. But it is not anti-religion. Science and religion just ask different questions."


"Can anybody think of a question science can't answer?"

"Is there a God?" shot back a boy near the window.

"Good," said Mr. Campbell, an Anglican who attends church most Sundays. "Can't test it. Can't prove it, can't disprove it. It's not a question for science."


I know some would disagree, but this IS an American classroom we're talking about!

Other Comments by Layla Nasreddin

4. Comment #236373 by Quetzalcoatl on August 24, 2008 at 2:43 pm

 avatarLayla-

PZ Myers' take on it:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/08/will_we_ever_stop_running_away.php

As for me- I disagree with what he said. But it might be a reasonable answer given that his aim is to teach them the importance of science. Responding otherwise might have taken things away from that.

Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl

5. Comment #236379 by AllanW on August 24, 2008 at 2:46 pm

 avatarAnd right on cue our resident creationist (avid worshipper of the convicted rapist Harun Yahya) trolls the site. Thanks Joe; you demonstrate the blind, wilful ignorance the article mentions so many times.

As any casual reader will note, Joe does not understand the stuff he cuts and pastes here. He has not read the article above. He does not understand the basics of human interraction; his only blinkered and myopic method of operation is to broadcast not listen. He is, in short, a pathetic, stunted, ignorant excuse for a human being. I feel sad that he wastes his time here but at least everyone else gets to see the complete waste of human material that he represents and will be deterred from wasting themselves in the same manner.

Other Comments by AllanW

6. Comment #236380 by theantitheist on August 24, 2008 at 2:47 pm

 avatarA well written story, I can see where the difficulties lay in regards to countering not only indoctrination but subversive manouvers by fellow teachers and the lower management of the religous companies/sects.

Hopefully small changes will result and who knows maybe a couple of the kids will, with the aid of these new standards, the wonders of the universe far outceed the 'little gods'.

Hope you guys can keep the progress coming over there.

(Please everyone remember, do not feed the troll)

Other Comments by theantitheist

7. Comment #236381 by mark65 on August 24, 2008 at 2:48 pm

copy & paste attack from a muslim fucktard

Other Comments by mark65

8. Comment #236383 by Darwinfish76 on August 24, 2008 at 2:51 pm

Joe,

RD isn't needed to respond to many of your questions. Many on this forum have studied enough biology to answer you. One major misunderstanding you have is the difference between evolution, which is the decent with modification of life after it first appears and abiogenesis, which is the first appearance of life from non living origins. I am overwhelmed by all the points you have thrown out without asking many clear questions. Could you pick one or two questions per post and then I think that many here will be able to adequately deal with them.

Other Comments by Darwinfish76

9. Comment #236389 by The Hogfather on August 24, 2008 at 2:57 pm

Decius- I entirely agree, this is supposed to be a comments section for people who have some vague clue about reality.

Wow! These creationists do like to babble don't they. Joe Morreale is really getting on my nerves!

Other Comments by The Hogfather

10. Comment #236397 by Layla Nasreddin on August 24, 2008 at 3:05 pm

 avatar#8 Quetzlcoatl:

Specifically, PZ said this in relation to the last quote:

I despise that chicken-hearted answer. There are two reasonable ways to address that. One is to accept the usual open-ended, undefined vagueness of the god entity and point out that the reason it can't be answered is that it is a bad question -- it's not even wrong. Science doesn't answer it, but then no discipline can, because it's a garbage question like "what color are invisible elephants?" If that's what window-boy intends with his petty little gotcha, he deserves to have the inanity of his idea disparaged.

The other approach is to pin the question down. What god? What actions has it taken in the natural world? How does it influence us specifically? Then you can tackle that god with science by testing the purported effects it has. A potentially falsifiable or verifiable god is a legitimate target of scientific investigation...of course, that kind of god seems to vanish as soon as it is scrutinized, and its advocates rapidly fall back on the not-even-wrong version of a deity. Either way, though, gods are refuted.

[...]

Isn't it obvious yet that a policy of temerity does not work? If we're ever going to win, we have to fight back directly at the root cause of bad science and bad education: religion.


Honestly, I think PZ is bloody dreaming and/or on something if he genuinely thinks the US public schools are going to toe a "harder line" towards religion in the way he proposes, given the "separation of church and state" issue and not preaching religion OR "atheism" (defined as teaching explicitly that deities don't exist) in the public school classroom. (I think PZ knows this too and hence the anger towards this seemingly insoluble problem.) The fact that even UK schools are starting to experience this phenomenon of disbelieving students and tiptoeing around their religious beliefs (as seen in the scenes with the students and teachers at Park High School in the Genius of Charles Darwin documentary) suggests it's a much harder nut to crack than one might prefer to believe.

Other Comments by Layla Nasreddin

11. Comment #236401 by SPS on August 24, 2008 at 3:12 pm

I didn't care for or agree with his answer regarding the science vs. religion issue, but aside from that I thought Campbell did well in championing evolution in a challenging situation. Given his own religious views, the way he conveyed the science vs. religion issue was not ideal (though to him it was honest), it appears to have been an effective way of reaching some of the students who have religious objections to evolution.

-Slight edit for clarity.

Other Comments by SPS

12. Comment #236411 by obscured by clouds on August 24, 2008 at 3:19 pm

 avatar
decius
Can we have this raving idiot banned for good?



Yes done, sorry it took so long. ;)

Other Comments by obscured by clouds

13. Comment #236414 by ingodwerust on August 24, 2008 at 3:22 pm

 avatarThe poor man - and the poor kids. I don't think this is a purely American problem either. The article i thought was very good but not very encouraging.

Other Comments by ingodwerust

14. Comment #236418 by Lucas on August 24, 2008 at 3:25 pm

 avatarPretty moving story here. I don't agree with every choice the teacher made, but I have sympathy for his struggle and it seems he is absolutely doing his best. I'll give him an A for heroic effort in the face of such bad odds.

EDIT after reading other posts: Layla, etc., obviously most of us here would have a problem with the "religion and science ask different questions" tactic because in many cases they ask the same question but come up with different answers. This is what the teacher should have said, and he then should have described the reasons for the different answers, i.e. faith versus evidence. This would get to the real nut of the thing: there is an inherent oppositional relationship between thinking something is true because it sounds appealing, makes sense to you, or is conveyed with authority, and thinking something is true because it is observed, repeatedly, and can be used to predict things that actually do happen. To high school kids, it could be made as simple as a who-kissed-who analogy. One kid, with authority, says he saw John kiss Jill, but another says it was Bill who kissed Jill. The kid accusing John says it's because Bob told him so. The one accusing Bill has video footage that everyone can watch of Bill kissing Jill. Who do you believe? Why would you believe an accuser who's only evidence is "Bob told me so" when you have another accuser who can show you inarguable evidence? It's just two totally different ways of thinking.

Other Comments by Lucas

15. Comment #236420 by catskill on August 24, 2008 at 3:25 pm

 avatarThe pastor who gave out the anti evolution books probably switched to evolution after his last book, which promoted the Earth as center of the Universe as per the Bible, didn't do as well.

Well, I have to get back to my current book, which explains the worldwide scientific community conspiracy to promote false anti god beliefs by stating that disease is caused by viruses and bacteria, and not by god as punishment for our sins, which we all know is the true reason.

Other Comments by catskill

16. Comment #236421 by mummymonkey on August 24, 2008 at 3:26 pm

Very nice. When I was at school David Attenborough's Life on Earth was on TV. Maybe schools should think about showing that to students.

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17. Comment #236424 by Joe Morreale on August 24, 2008 at 3:28 pm

Goodnight boys and remember that banning or moving, concealing the truth does not eliminate it

I KNOW IT HURTS

Other Comments by Joe Morreale

18. Comment #236429 by Tom Coward on August 24, 2008 at 3:31 pm

This is how it is done: One misguided young person at a time! Excellent teaching!

Other Comments by Tom Coward

19. Comment #236430 by Jesus was a zombie on August 24, 2008 at 3:34 pm

 avatar"Let Dawkins explain us in evolutionary terms how conversations, music and all other sounds form in the sound-isolated brain; who listens to and enjoys these sounds, who knows their meaning, who reflects on them consciously and who answers back these sounds!"

Does that even make sense? I thought this raving loon had been banned, I've deen a lurker long enough to know that he brings nothing to the
table except dogma and outright bullshit. Oh well, will it do any good if I flag him like there is no tomorrow?

EDIT: it appears the comment i was refering to has vanished, in the words of dear old Monty Burns "excellent!"

Other Comments by Jesus was a zombie

20. Comment #236431 by thewhitepearl on August 24, 2008 at 3:35 pm

 avatarI do believe I want to send this teacher flowers.

Other Comments by thewhitepearl

21. Comment #236437 by shemp333 on August 24, 2008 at 3:42 pm

 avatarYou can't fix stupid, and you can't communicate intelligent, scientific observation to sheep. Not even possible, I'm quite sure of that.

Love this story. Mr. David Campbell is a role model and teaching the correct information in the right way.... Cheers to you sir!

Other Comments by shemp333

22. Comment #236442 by Lucas on August 24, 2008 at 3:46 pm

 avatarJosh, can we have a button to click when people respond to trolls? [troll feeder] perhaps? The reactions tend to derail the thread even more than the trolls themselves. I'm a little disappointed in a lot of you. How many fucking times does "don't feed the trolls" have to be said? It's just not that hard.

EDIT: And is there any way to delete the response to the trolls from the thread once the troll is deleted? It gets very confusing when you start reading a long thread. That includes this post, too.

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23. Comment #236445 by Jenny Taylier on August 24, 2008 at 3:50 pm

I happened to catch the outburst by Joe Morreale and I thought it , and its fate, was a kind of illustration of evolution. Joe's anti-evolutionary text was introduced into an evolutionary environment - how would it survive? The answer was not very long at all - certainly not long enough to pass its religious memes on to many of the comment audience. It reached me, but I certainly won't reproduce it. Joe may try again but he'll get short shrift again. So he'll need to propogate his religious memes in an environment that is favourable to him. So Joe, if you're reading this, you've just seen the delicious irony of selection pressure on your posting.

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24. Comment #236446 by Border Collie on August 24, 2008 at 3:53 pm

The evolution of teaching evolution, steady as she goes, baby steps ... I'm amazed that even this much is happening given the animosity for ANY science all over the US. Yes, I'd love to see leaps in science education ... maybe after the repubs are voted out of office ...

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25. Comment #236449 by phasmagigas on August 24, 2008 at 3:56 pm

 avatarsee the damage lack of education in FL can do, many have seen this ignoramus. amazing how the only time people are happy to make themselves look stupid when it comes to our origins. This man was obviously not listening to his teacher (well maybe he didnt get any evolution at all and it shows) and key words:oranges,idiot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KefaammKJVE

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26. Comment #236453 by phasmagigas on August 24, 2008 at 4:00 pm

 avatarjenny.

I happened to catch the outburst by Joe Morreale and I thought it , and its fate, was a kind of illustration of evolution. Joe's anti-evolutionary text was introduced into an evolutionary environment - how would it survive?


perhaps the best strategy is to make a few random changes (mutations) to the copy/paste pieces, they could well make more sense then!!

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27. Comment #236464 by HappyPrimate on August 24, 2008 at 4:33 pm

 avatarGreat article. This teacher needs a raise and an award. If he can get that class to accept the facts of evolution by natural selection in high school, then by the time they get to college it will be much easier for people like PZ to knock that god delusion right out of their minds. RDF should come up with some sort of award for teachers like this one.

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28. Comment #236475 by J Mac on August 24, 2008 at 4:45 pm

 avatar"you can't communicate intelligent, scientific observation to sheep. Not even possible, I'm quite sure of that. "

I disagree. At least some of them you can. By most standards I was one of those sheep for a good portion of my life. The wool never was comfortable, but it's all I knew. Things have changed.

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29. Comment #236477 by NewEnglandBob on August 24, 2008 at 4:52 pm

 avatarJoe Morreale was removed but I feel his offensive posts should also be removed.

A pile of feces would not be left in the middle of a hallway so therefore JM's droppings of filth should also be cleaned out.

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30. Comment #236484 by AfraidToDie on August 24, 2008 at 5:22 pm

 avatar
13. Comment #236414 by ingodwerust The poor man - and the poor kids. I don't think this is a purely American problem either. The article i thought was very good but not very encouraging


Believe it or not, this is progress. You are talking Florida here, land of Jeb Bush, hanging chads, Anita Bryant (anybody remember her?). To get evolution taught in the classroom is such a positive (albeit small) step. Maybe when they get to college they'll have a jump start on thinking for themselves. Teach evolution and leave the religious debate for philosophy.

TheAnittheist.. about that avatar. Are you trying to make me doubt my atheism? I can't help myself.. yes, there must be a god!

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31. Comment #236507 by chuckgoecke on August 24, 2008 at 6:04 pm

 avatarOne approach to explaining this evolution stuff to kids might be to explain how poor personal increduality is as a reason to believe or argue anything. That there's lots of stuff that all of us just don't know, couldn't have experienced, and have no realistic sense about. Add to that that the time scales of the Earth have been discovered to been immensely longer than people once would have believed by studying the concept of uniformitarinism, the slow geological processes of the Earth. If one could convince kids that the Earth is really billions of years old, the gradual part of evolution would be a lot easier to grasp and believe.

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32. Comment #236521 by J Mac on August 24, 2008 at 6:27 pm

 avatarPersonally what I have found as an amazing teaching tool is the Wason test (and its social variants). It's fun, hands on, interesting, and it shows how foolish most peoples' natural inclination can be.

Once that sinks in people are much more able to look at evidence for what it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wason_selection_task

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33. Comment #236526 by catskill on August 24, 2008 at 6:34 pm

 avatarI went to the NYT directly and started reading the comments, there were 260 as of now... it started well and I was happily surprised, but no, there are plenty of ignorant and bizarre comments to be found in the list. Just amazing is the total lack of knowledge displayed by some. Really bad. All of the favorites are there. Just a theory. Second law. I mean REALLY. Even Answers in Genesis dot com tells creationists not to use those arguments.

I did like one comment though, the author insisted on calling creationism "magical creation" every time. I know creationism is less characters to type out, but I think from now on I will never use anything but "magical creation" in any argument whether written or verbal.

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34. Comment #236528 by J Mac on August 24, 2008 at 6:36 pm

 avatar"magical creation"

HA! How do they teach that?

Do they go over the chemical formula for pixie dust that god used?

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35. Comment #236530 by Layla Nasreddin on August 24, 2008 at 6:38 pm

 avatar#14 Lucas
This is what the teacher should have said, and he then should have described the reasons for the different answers, i.e. faith versus evidence. This would get to the real nut of the thing: there is an inherent oppositional relationship between thinking something is true because it sounds appealing, makes sense to you, or is conveyed with authority, and thinking something is true because it is observed, repeatedly, and can be used to predict things that actually do happen.


Too much for a high school science class, I'm afraid. I have to agree with the other posters who are encouraged that evolution is being taught at all, and kudos to Campbell for his heroic efforts in this direction -- especially since it's in Florida! (Well, not all of Florida is that bad, admittedly, but a lot of it is.)

Speaking of which, I wonder what is taught in parochial schools about evolution...or not. Do the new standards apply to them, I wonder, or just public schools? Catholic schools would probably teach it, I suppose, since they have a reputation (in the US, anyway) for producing better educated students than most public schools (!).

How would they teach it? I don't know, maybe the same as in a public school, without any mention of religion. Or else, if the subject came up in class, one could come up with some sort of "synthesis" of religion and evolution ("God used evolution to further his plan for salvation!"). Incidentally, the other day I was at the bookstore looking through Michael Dowd's Thank God for Evolution (in which he tries to do exactly that) and was rather surprised to find the whole of Dawkins's "Good and Bad Reasons for Believing," his letter to his then 10-year-old daughter Juliet, reproduced as Appendix A, and an acknowledgment that it was "used by permission of the author." I suppose I shouldn't have been so surprised, as Dawkins recommends, say, Ken Miller's books to people who think evolution is totally incompatible with belief in a deity. Perhaps more of that approach, that evolution and religion are in fact compatible (as advocated by the NCSE and Eugenie Scott) might help...even if you think it's dishonest. Or maybe it wouldn't help, I don't know. *shrugs*

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36. Comment #236589 by AtheistRamblings on August 24, 2008 at 8:50 pm

 avatarOff topic, but any teachers out there may find the Australian "Philosophers and Critical Thinkers in Senior Schools", http://pactiss.org/, of use.

It's a resource for high school teachers who want to teach philosophy and critical thinking in their classes. It may give science teachers some material or ideas on teaching evolution, especially equipping them with answers to creationist and ID nonsense.

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37. Comment #236592 by Don_Quix on August 24, 2008 at 9:02 pm

 avatarWhat in the world is going on in this thread?

The comments aren't loading right. All I see is some religious wingnut spamming the comments with repetitive senseless insanity.

It's too bad, because this was an excellent article. I wish I had had a teacher even remotely as smart and engaging as David Campbell when I was in high school.

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38. Comment #236607 by trevok on August 24, 2008 at 9:39 pm

If I was teaching evolution to teenagers I'd focus on technology. Tell them that their iPods, cell phones, laptops and MySpace pages are the result of evolution. Tell them if they want to reject the scientific view, then they have to reject modern science, which is technology. If there was no evolution, those things would have been around from day 1.

Given a choice between iPods, cell phones, the internet or Christianity, I think even the most hardcore brainwashed kid would prefer their iPod to a barren existence of prayer. There's too much of a perception that science is some boring old thing that old guys in white coats with funny hair do off in laboratories which has no relevance to the rest of the world. The connection to technology in all high school classes should be stressed. You could look at the chemistry of iPods, and the physics of a lap top. Stress the fact that technology is simply another name for modern science.

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39. Comment #236632 by Richard Dawkins on August 25, 2008 at 12:16 am

Others have mentioned PZ's article on this topic. I strongly recommend it. It is brilliant, even by his standards.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/08/will_we_ever_stop_running_away.php#more
Richard

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40. Comment #236637 by King of NH on August 25, 2008 at 12:52 am

 avatar
Layla Nasreddin: Speaking of which, I wonder what is taught in parochial schools about evolution...or not. Do the new standards apply to them, I wonder, or just public schools? Catholic schools would probably teach it, I suppose, since they have a reputation (in the US, anyway) for producing better educated students than most public schools (!).


I went to a parochial school, Catholic, St. John Regional School of NH, proudly. It was a great school that is, ironically, probably responsible for giving me the education that turned me atheist.

A nun was my fourth grade teacher, and she stated evolution is an undeniable fact, only a fool would deny it given the overwhelming evidence. She told us not to mix religion an science because science will win and we will lose (as a nun, she obviously felt religion was an important piece of a complete person). I learned Darwinian evolution was true, I learned the universe was unimaginably vast and billions of years old, and I learned the earth is billions of years old.

As a side note: My grandparents also both attended St John. My grandmother was still in school when the nuclear bombs were dropped on Japan. The morning the news came out about the Hiroshima bomb, she had physics class. The teacher, working from text books less than up-to-date, began her class the only way she could: "Whatever you heard on the radio this morning or read in the papers, for this class the smallest unit of matter is the atom and it cannot be divided."

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41. Comment #236639 by rod-the-farmer on August 25, 2008 at 1:05 am

 avatarJosh, would it be possible to leave an entry, a line perhaps, saying that "Comment # XX by person YY was deleted after being marked as a troll by ZZ people" ? I was busy doing something, and by the time I got to this article, it appears several posts have already been removed, but I still see the comments of those responding to the removed comments. It makes it very confusing to try to follow the conversation. It might also help us understand which individuals are regularly having their comments removed.

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42. Comment #236642 by King of NH on August 25, 2008 at 1:19 am

 avatarSorry for this longer post, but it's hillarious and relevant. The "Ten Questions to ask your Biology teacher" can be found at http://www.arn.org/docs/wells/jw_10questions.htm

Because I know many of you hate to link bounce, and because it's rude to make people, here are what I have retitled "Letterman's Top Ten Reasons Creationists are IDiots." I'm not even a science major (thinking of redeclaring as such, though) and I can answer each of these off hand. This is bad, but here you are:

ORIGIN OF LIFE. Why do textbooks claim that the 1953 Miller-Urey experiment shows how life's building blocks may have formed on the early Earth â€" when conditions on the early Earth were probably nothing like those used in the experiment, and the origin of life remains a mystery?

DARWIN'S TREE OF LIFE. Why don't textbooks discuss the "Cambrian explosion," in which all major animal groups appear together in the fossil record fully formed instead of branching from a common ancestor â€" thus contradicting the evolutionary tree of life?

HOMOLOGY. Why do textbooks define homology as similarity due to common ancestry, then claim that it is evidence for common ancestry â€" a circular argument masquerading as scientific evidence?

VERTEBRATE EMBRYOS. Why do textbooks use drawings of similarities in vertebrate embryos as evidence for their common ancestry â€" even though biologists have known for over a century that vertebrate embryos are not most similar in their early stages, and the drawings are faked?

ARCHAEOPTERYX. Why do textbooks portray this fossil as the missing link between dinosaurs and modern birds â€" even though modern birds are probably not descended from it, and its supposed ancestors do not appear until millions of years after it?

PEPPERED MOTHS. Why do textbooks use pictures of peppered moths camouflaged on tree trunks as evidence for natural selection â€" when biologists have known since the 1980s that the moths don't normally rest on tree trunks, and all the pictures have been staged?

DARWIN'S FINCHES. Why do textbooks claim that beak changes in Galapagos finches during a severe drought can explain the origin of species by natural selection â€" even though the changes were reversed after the drought ended, and no net evolution occurred?

MUTANT FRUIT FLIES. Why do textbooks use fruit flies with an extra pair of wings as evidence that DNA mutations can supply raw materials for evolution â€" even though the extra wings have no muscles and these disabled mutants cannot survive outside the laboratory?

HUMAN ORIGINS. Why are artists' drawings of ape-like humans used to justify materialistic claims that we are just animals and our existence is a mere accident â€" when fossil experts cannot even agree on who our supposed ancestors were or what they looked like?

EVOLUTION A FACT? Why are we told that Darwin's theory of evolution is a scientific fact â€" even though many of its claims are based on misrepresentations of the facts?

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43. Comment #236644 by beeline on August 25, 2008 at 1:30 am

 avatarVery nice article - very well written, and the 'hero' really comes across well. A little at a time... gently does it... I particularly liked his line "I don't expect you to believe it, I expect you to understand it". And then, hopefully, alter their beliefs accordingly, if they can.

I completely agree with PZ that the education system is at fault - and the government for allowing the religious nutcases to undermine the standards in class, and for allowing Yancey to be a teacher at all - but I think Campbell's phrase:
"If I do this wrong," Mr. Campbell remembers thinking on that humid spring morning, "I'll lose him."

is far more realistic in terms of capturing those who are on the edge. Most people are not fundamentalists, and some of them can be 'won over' to rationalism. But not by barking at them and calling them stupid. Stupid doesn't know that it's stupid - that's the problem.

Thanks for getting rid of all the trolling C&P guff, Josh!

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44. Comment #236647 by notsobad on August 25, 2008 at 1:47 am

 avatar
"Can anybody think of a question science can't answer?"
"Is there a God?" shot back a boy near the window.
"Good," said Mr. Campbell, an Anglican who attends church most Sundays. "Can't test it. Can't prove it, can't disprove it. It's not a question for science."

nonsense
If religion didn't make scientific claims, it would be pointless and not real. Oh wait...

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45. Comment #236655 by beeline on August 25, 2008 at 2:44 am

 avatarI'd like to expand slightly on PZ's article, and what I think is wrong with his attitude in this instance.

Yes, the educational system needs updating considerably, and all the steps that were taken to give teachers like Yancey a position, and all those governmental steps that allow churches to undermine educational standards absolutely do need to be addressed. In a hurry.

Obviously, the people reporting on this need are the teachers because they're the ones who are experiencing the problems. But - and it's a big 'but' (I like big buts, okay) - there is another problem that, unlike the administration monster that lurks behind any effort to reform a country's education system, needs to be addressed immediately: i.e. that kid, sitting in front of the teacher, right now.

Every pupil who's ever had a teacher that has inspired them has, at one point, gained the trust, respect and possibly friendship of that teacher. Like it or not, getting pupils to like a teacher first and foremost is one of the most powerful weapons they have to get their voice heard. They'll only listen to you in the first place if you approach gently. If you storm in slinging stones, however accurately they're aimed, they'll just shut the gate and shutter the windows.

These are kids, who are irrational, strung out with uncontrollable hormones, and whose minds are often completely fixated on matters of social status. If the teacher doesn't let this inform their approach, then they're deluding themselves that teenagers' minds are they way they would like them to be, rather than reality suggests, and they're relying on wishful thinking to be successful. To bark at them and even imply that they're somehow deluded or stupid is to immediately lose that power to help them understand, slowly and in small steps.

And if you do that, you'll almost certainly never get them back again. They'll never listen to you again, irrespective of any rational approach or presentation of logic or evidence. You will just be cut off. To understand and allow for the nature of the enemy is to have a considerable advantage. It's not a case of 'pandering to them' or even 'respecting their crazy beliefs'; it's a matter of understanding what you look like to kids and occupying the small niche that is available to teachers. That niche which affords some prospect of success.

If you do it right, nobody will notice there was even a problem.

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46. Comment #236663 by Stafford Gordon on August 25, 2008 at 3:10 am

I think perhaps the answer to why some people simply cannot bear to accept evolution, despite the mountainous evidence for it, lies in the comment made by Bryce, under his breath, as he left the classroom; VANITY!

I've long thought that it might be the case but now I'm convinced of it; it might be fascinating to conduct a scientific study on the subject of self image/awareness/ego among those with religion vis-a-vis those without.

It could turn out to be more than just interesting, it might be a bit of laugh!

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47. Comment #236674 by D'Arcy on August 25, 2008 at 4:03 am

 avatar
Animals do adapt to their environments, Ms. Yancey tells her students, but evolution alone can hardly account for the appearance of wholly different life forms. She leaves it up to them to draw their own conclusions. But when pressed, she tells them, "I think God did it."

Mr. Campbell was well aware of her opinion. "I don't think we have this great massive change over time where we go from fish to amphibians, from monkeys to man," she once told him. "We see lizards with different-shaped tails, we don't see blizzards �quot; the lizard bird."


With science teachers like that, you wonder how long the USA will be no. 1 in science.

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48. Comment #236683 by JeremyH on August 25, 2008 at 4:39 am

 avatarI really enjoyed this article. The kind of teachers a child has is the most important part of a his/her upbringing.

A good teacher explains what happens.

A great teacher explains HOW it happens.

An excellent teacher gives you the skills to properly assess the given information, so that you can figure out how it happens by yourself.

It's hard to be an 'excellent' teacher by the standards above, and sometimes it's impossible, depending on the situation. Mr Campbell seems to be a 'great' teacher, and given the kind of students he had to work with, you can't expect much more.

I'm just grateful that all through my school years I had a good share of 'excellent' teachers who helped me become the free-thinking individual that I am.

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49. Comment #236687 by Stormkahn on August 25, 2008 at 4:44 am

 avatarBravo Mr Campbell!

I was interested in the "10 questions to ask your teacher" so routed out this if anybody else was also that nosey...

http://pharyngula.org/index/weblog/comments/ten_questions_to_ask_your_biology_teacher/

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50. Comment #236718 by bamafreethinker on August 25, 2008 at 7:02 am

 avatarComment #236655 by beeline

I agree 100%. If you insult their intelligence, their minds will close and you may loose them forever.

PZ can be an idealistic militant prick sometimes. There probably is a niche for idealistic militant pricks in this battle, but I feel that it's not in high school science class. Let PZ have 'em in college! "I want it all... I want it all... I want it all... and I want it now" Yeah, but get real!

I think that Campbell's tactful, kid-glove approach will persuade those students to think for themselves and will hopefully not cause them to close their minds with a knee-jerk defensive reaction.

Teach them evolution and one of the cornerstones of their religion will be crushed. There will be no need to force atheism down their throat - they will likely nibble it down on their own. Even if they choose to hang on to some watered down, powder-puff god, at least they won't be fighting to keep evolution out of their kid's schools.

Folks (the arm-chair critics) who criticize Campbell should be ashamed. In my opinion, he's a hero on the front lines - facing the IDiots in the trenches!

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