Friday, August 29, 2008 | Reason : In the News | print version

No atheist burials in Co Donegal

by BBC News

Thanks to Luthien for the link.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/foyle_and_west/7588035.stm

No atheist burials in Co Donegal

A Donegal atheist had to be buried in Londonderry because the county has no facilities for non-religious burials.

Journalist Roy Greenslade's mother was buried in Ballyowen cemetery in Derry on Tuesday after a humanist service.

He said he was told atheists could not be buried in Donegal because the graveyards are church-owned.

"Therefore unless one is willing to compromise one's beliefs by agreeing to a religious service, it is impossible to be buried," he said.

"There is a degree of black comedy about this, and my mother, who had a fantastic sense of humour, would certainly have laughed.

"When I rang up and asked Derry City Council's cemeteries department if it was possible to bury an atheist in a municipal cemetery they said it was possible because there were different sections for Catholics, Protestants and Muslims.

"My wife asked if it meant they were going to start an atheist section and the woman said, 'oh no, she can go in with the Protestants'."

A spokesperson from Donegal County Council said it is only responsible for old and unused graveyards.

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1. Comment #239139 by leodavinci on August 29, 2008 at 6:42 am

Idiots

Other Comments by leodavinci

2. Comment #239144 by rev on August 29, 2008 at 6:47 am

ha ha I'm laughing out on this one, they are quite mad.

Other Comments by rev

3. Comment #239146 by hungarianelephant on August 29, 2008 at 6:50 am

Nonsense. Donegal is so empty that you'll never know if someone is buried there. The IRA did this for years.

Other Comments by hungarianelephant

4. Comment #239148 by HandyGeek on August 29, 2008 at 6:55 am

"She can go in with the Protestants." That's just comedy gold right there.

Other Comments by HandyGeek

5. Comment #239152 by phasmagigas on August 29, 2008 at 7:01 am

"Therefore unless one is willing to compromise one's beliefs by agreeing to a religious service, it is impossible to be buried," he said.

by agreeing to a religious service an atheist wouldnt compromise their beliefs in the slightest, it mearly means that their burial would involve some silly babblings about god and jesus.

religicreem: apply daily to numb the brain.

Other Comments by phasmagigas

6. Comment #239154 by severalspeciesof on August 29, 2008 at 7:03 am

Comment #239148 by HandyGeek:

"She can go in with the Protestants." That's just comedy gold right there.

You are most certainly right!

Other Comments by severalspeciesof

7. Comment #239155 by PJG on August 29, 2008 at 7:03 am

My uncle was asked his religion when he went to do his National Service (some time around the early/mid 1950s in England). He said he was an atheist but saw the C.O. write "C of E" in the space on the form. My uncle laughed and said he hadn't realised that to be a member of the Church of England, one had to be an atheist. He insisted the C.O. changed the entry. I always thought that was pretty good. I'm not aware of his ever getting any stick for being an "out" atheist. I bet he would now!

Other Comments by PJG

8. Comment #239157 by Ian Bamlett on August 29, 2008 at 7:06 am

Why not cremate and be done with it? If she really was an atheist why care about being buried or where?

They can tie me up in a plastic bag and throw me in the land fill for all I care.

Other Comments by Ian Bamlett

9. Comment #239158 by hungarianelephant on August 29, 2008 at 7:07 am

Ian Bamlett - That's good to know. Presumably we should wait until you're dead?

Other Comments by hungarianelephant

10. Comment #239159 by Tezcatlipoca on August 29, 2008 at 7:13 am

No, no, no...not plastic. Burlap. My family prefers old burlap potato sacks.

Other Comments by Tezcatlipoca

11. Comment #239161 by Ian Bamlett on August 29, 2008 at 7:15 am

Comment #239158 by hungarianelephant:

Presumably we should wait until you're dead?

Yes please. (Good point!)

Other Comments by Ian Bamlett

12. Comment #239162 by Sigmund on August 29, 2008 at 7:20 am

Donegal is a cold, wet windswept place, far from modern amenities.
I suspect the atheists are dying to get out of it.

Other Comments by Sigmund

13. Comment #239164 by Quetzalcoatl on August 29, 2008 at 7:24 am

This is quite funny, in a dark way.

Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl

14. Comment #239167 by Smith on August 29, 2008 at 7:29 am

"A spokesperson from Donegal County Council said it is only responsible for old and unused graveyards."

It's really strange.

Other Comments by Smith

15. Comment #239170 by Sargeist on August 29, 2008 at 7:34 am

Unused graveyard?

I have an unused graveyard in my bathroom at home.

Other Comments by Sargeist

16. Comment #239171 by root2squared on August 29, 2008 at 7:36 am

So even in death, religion divides...

Other Comments by root2squared

17. Comment #239178 by The author on August 29, 2008 at 7:57 am

When I am dead I want to be burnt and my ashes shall be snuffed in by the ones responsible.

Other Comments by The author

18. Comment #239184 by Cartomancer on August 29, 2008 at 8:08 am

I thought all dead people were atheists. I've never heard a corpse express even the slightest hint of religious sentiment on its own. Generally they're quite happy to sit there and fall to pieces without worrying about metaphysical nonsense like religion.

Now braindead people on the other hand...

Other Comments by Cartomancer

19. Comment #239187 by Shaka on August 29, 2008 at 8:17 am

This is why there need to be more Green Cemeteries.
Anyone can be buried in them. No casket, more like a bio-degradable bag, and than have a plant/tree/tombstone planeted right over the body.

Other Comments by Shaka

20. Comment #239188 by Darwinorlose on August 29, 2008 at 8:17 am

"My wife asked if it meant they were going to start an atheist section and the woman said, 'oh no, she can go in with the Protestants'."

Reminds me of the story of Bertrand Russell, who when he was jailed during WWI for being a pacifist, wrote: "I was much cheered upon my arrival (in prison) by the warden at the gate who had to take particulars about me. He asked my religion, and I replied, Agnostic. He asked how to spell it, and remarked with a sigh, Well, there are many religions, but I suppose they all worship the same God."

Anyway, why not be buried with the Protestants? Being an atheist is the ultimate protestation anyway! The problem with Protestantism is that they didn't go far enough to protesting the source of religious corruption, namely belief in the deity itself.

Other Comments by Darwinorlose

21. Comment #239189 by bugaboo on August 29, 2008 at 8:18 am

Carto

I've never heard a corpse express even the slightest hint of religious sentiment on its own.

I have. There's a lot of gas builds up in there.

Other Comments by bugaboo

22. Comment #239190 by esuther on August 29, 2008 at 8:22 am

>>>>>I thought all dead people were atheists. I've never heard a corpse express even the slightest hint of religious sentiment on its own. Generally they're quite happy to sit there and fall to pieces<<<<<

Good point, Carto.

I only wish there would be a moment of reflection after a person was dead, sort of like the light spot at the center of the tv screen right after you turn it off. A moment for the believer to realize that no angels, no devils, nobody, nothing, was going to come along and take them any place, that in just about a second, the light was going off forever. The "Oh, shit," moment.

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23. Comment #239192 by Zion on August 29, 2008 at 8:25 am

What is the problem here, haven't they heard of cremation, which is superior and cheaper to burial anyway?

Other Comments by Zion

24. Comment #239199 by beebhack on August 29, 2008 at 8:30 am

Reminds me of when I was taken to A and E with a rugby injury (nasty, rough game). The nurse asked me what religion I was. When I answered 'nothing' she said 'I'll put C of E, then'. Made me smile, despite the waves of agony (contd. p 94).

Other Comments by beebhack

25. Comment #239202 by Tezcatlipoca on August 29, 2008 at 8:30 am

Why be buried or cremated at all...

"Ain't we gonna bury 'em Josey? Nope, Buzzards gotta eat, same as the worms..." -Outlaw Josey Wales

Other Comments by Tezcatlipoca

26. Comment #239203 by Blue Monster 65 on August 29, 2008 at 8:31 am

I am stealing this premise for a skit. "... in with the Protestants" - HA! Too funny.

Scott

Other Comments by Blue Monster 65

27. Comment #239225 by Matt7895 on August 29, 2008 at 9:13 am

What's the point of getting worked about this? If you're an atheist, you shouldn't really care about what happens to your body.

Personally I'm donating my entire body to medical research/organ donation. I won't have any use for it.

Other Comments by Matt7895

28. Comment #239238 by refuteist on August 29, 2008 at 9:36 am

Try the Wikipedia entry for "On Ilkla Moor Baht 'at" for the full rounding of the cycle of kife and death and recycling!

Other Comments by refuteist

29. Comment #239241 by Raiko on August 29, 2008 at 9:51 am

*laugh* Try turning this around to a place where there are only Muslim cemetaries and a Christian wants to be buried...

"Therefore unless one is willing to compromise one's beliefs by agreeing to an Islamic service, it is impossible to be buried," he said.

Well, if that ever happens, let's go and get enough popcorn for the show!

Other Comments by Raiko

30. Comment #239243 by KillerChihuahua on August 29, 2008 at 9:56 am

That reminds me of the old joke concerning the "Irish troubles" which involved someone who was asked at a civilian roadblock whether he was Catholic or Protestant. When he replied "atheist" he was asked "Catholic atheist or Protestant atheist?"

Other Comments by KillerChihuahua

31. Comment #239251 by Lucas on August 29, 2008 at 10:08 am

One of my favorite Clint lines ever, Tezca. (Though I suppose we must give credit to the screenwriter.) I often take solace in the Pink Floyd line, "And the worms, they enter his brain," though I think Waters didn't really mean that literally. The idea of worms eating my brain is not at all gross; it makes me happy for the worms!

Other Comments by Lucas

32. Comment #239269 by liberalartist on August 29, 2008 at 10:48 am

I'm with Matt7895 - donate your body to science and your organs to those in need. What better way to end your body's life on earth?

Of course, I would still like to imagine my family having to sit through a humanist ceremony with absolutely no mention of god :)

Other Comments by liberalartist

33. Comment #239273 by suffolkthinker on August 29, 2008 at 10:52 am

Once in Belfast when asked if I were Protestant or Catholic I replied "Neither I'm an Atheist". To which my friend said without blinking an eye ".... but here you have to be either a Protestant Atheist or a Catholic Atheist!.

As he said - if they didn't laugh at each other they'd shoot each other. Mad place in many ways but strangely likable for all that.

Other Comments by suffolkthinker

34. Comment #239278 by NMcC on August 29, 2008 at 11:09 am

SIGMUND:

"Donegal is a cold, wet windswept place, far from modern amenities.
I suspect the atheists are dying to get out of it."

This 'protestant' atheist went there once - it was closed.

(Just kidding, it's a lovely place with some breath-taking scenery).

Other Comments by NMcC

35. Comment #239284 by usheen on August 29, 2008 at 11:36 am

I had to make enquiries about my own burial about two years ago while I was getting treatment for cancer. I'm living in Donegal, my family are from here originally and we still have land here.

To my amazement I was told the same thing, I could not be buried in the local cemetery where my grandparents are buried as it was for Catholics only, then I enquired about the local Protestant graveyard and was told that was for members of the local protestant community only, so I applied for planning permission for a private burial plot on land that I own and I was refused on the grounds of objections from my own relations.

Then I was told about a couple who applied for something similar on their own land in another part of Donegal.

They were refused it also but appealed the decision to An Board Pleanála and had Donegal County Councils decision overturned, but they are only allowed to bury 8 people, 4 animals and that monuments on the graves must not exceed 700cm's in height and 1,000cm's in width.

This on a piece of land which is miles away from any homes, (nearest is 6 miles) is some 23 acres in size and in a desolate part of Donegal.

Yet, the same council granted planning to the Catholic Church for a new graveyard in the same locality that I was looking to be buried in and it is located beside a shop, two pubs, a hotel, crèche, training centre, national school and church. All of these are within 300 meters of the new graveyard.

Alas, I've decided to be cremated in Glasnevin in Dublin. So just to piss them all off I have asked for my ashes to be spread on the graveyards which I was looking to be buried in originally, I'd like to see them try and remove thousands of grains of ash from the ground. Revenge is sweet…hopefully

http://www.donegal.ie/DCC/iplaninternet/internetenquiry/rpt_ViewApplicDetails.asp?validFileNum=1&app_num_file=0651382

Other Comments by usheen

36. Comment #239292 by decius on August 29, 2008 at 12:02 pm

Usheen, sorry to hear that, but you did eventually recover, didn't you?

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37. Comment #239294 by Corylus on August 29, 2008 at 12:05 pm

I agree, of course, that I don't give a stuff what happens to my body.

However, I would care about this situation because I would hate for my family to have to spend any of the money that I leave (not that I'm leaving much!) on the vicar/priest who would perform the ceremony.

Other Comments by Corylus

38. Comment #239309 by Divineosaur on August 29, 2008 at 12:46 pm

I realize this might not be too popular a thing to do correcting you but the Floyd is a serious matter. The line is: "And the worms ate into his brain." And now I have no choice but to give it a listen!

Other Comments by Divineosaur

39. Comment #239310 by Nails on August 29, 2008 at 12:47 pm

Let's think about his rationaly.

Here is a little video (2 mins long) you might find useful:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce0UEb05DXI

Other Comments by Nails

40. Comment #239312 by PJG on August 29, 2008 at 12:48 pm

We had a fantastic non-religious funeral (cremation) for my mum. She would have loved it!

She, as the whole family has, had left her body to science. However, the circumstances of her death (she died abroad) meant that her body could not be donated.

Leaving your body to science is a good idea - what better use for a corpse? (No jokes about needing somewhere to park a bike!) However, it is worth making contingency plans just in case they can't take it for any reason.

Other Comments by PJG

41. Comment #239313 by amalthea on August 29, 2008 at 12:50 pm

Usheen, I went through similar. Not a happy time, but many ridiculous conversations did ensue, not least of which were offered by my family. In fact, most of them.

Strangely, my family are from Donegal (though I live in London) but I feel no connection to the land. I'll be cremated, then scattered around Pere Lachaise Cemetery in Paris by a good friend (or her daughter, both have agreed to do the deed)

The other option is indeed medical science, and I'm gravitating more to that now. Best wishes to you for the future, and hope you got all the bullshit straightened out :)

A

Speaking of Bullshit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-TJ_Lz6BH4

Other Comments by amalthea

42. Comment #239337 by jonjermey on August 29, 2008 at 1:22 pm

I think Mrs Greenslade should have stayed alive, just to spite them...

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43. Comment #239396 by Cartomancer on August 29, 2008 at 2:17 pm

Do you think something similar might have explained the story of the empty tomb in the new testament? "Sorry, this is a cemetery for jews, and the local temple of Hera don't want him either. You'll have to bury him over the border in Syria..."

Other Comments by Cartomancer

44. Comment #239426 by Shane McKee on August 29, 2008 at 2:39 pm

Mummification, kiddos. The only way to go.

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45. Comment #239427 by Peacebeuponme on August 29, 2008 at 2:40 pm

Graveyards should be banned anyway. Our land should be for the benefit of the living, not the dead.

I have to pass a large cemetary by train on the way to work. With all the schoolfields being sold off to developers, it saddens me that an open space that could make a great park or children's facility is filled with ugly stones and unhappy faces.

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme

46. Comment #239429 by Peacebeuponme on August 29, 2008 at 2:43 pm

usheen

Alas, I've decided to be cremated in Glasnevin in Dublin.

What happens to your carcass after you die really has nothing to do with you.

Living people should decide what is best for them and not necessarily pay any regard for your personal wishes.

Other Comments by Peacebeuponme

47. Comment #239430 by Prankster on August 29, 2008 at 2:47 pm

religious discrimination even in death? Ah the wonders of religion eh? Makes you proud to be a human being, he says sarcastically.....

Other Comments by Prankster

48. Comment #239432 by Dogrev on August 29, 2008 at 2:50 pm

A program called the "Healing Power of Nature" was recently screened on TV in South Africa in which the main subject was the plight of our fast diminishing vulture population. The woman who is trying to save them has opted for an Aerial Burial which involves placing her corpse out for the vultures to eat. According to the producer this is legal in this country. What really amused me is that she imagined that she was being lofted up into heaven by the birds. According to my observations bird shit is heavier than air so her heavenly journey would be bound to be quite short.

Other Comments by Dogrev

49. Comment #239437 by kkelly on August 29, 2008 at 3:00 pm

I want my head to be de-skulled and the skin dehydrated and shrunk, then stuffed with fragrant spices, and hung on a doorknob.

Other Comments by kkelly