Skip to Main Content (access key 1)
Skip to Search (access key 2)
Skip to Search GO (access key 3)
Skip to comments (access key 4)
Skip to navigation (access key 5)
Skip to top of page (access key 6)
Sunday, August 31, 2008 | Reason : Wingnut News | print version Print | Comments

Document Theocratic Sect Prays for Real Armageddon

by AlterNet

Thanks to Linda Ward Selbie for the link.

http://www.alternet.org/story/96945/theocratic_sect_prays_for_real_armageddon/

Theocratic Sect Prays for Real Armageddon
By Casey Sanchez, Southern Poverty Law Center

LAKELAND, Fla. -- Todd Bentley has a long night ahead of him, resurrecting the dead, healing the blind, and exploding cancerous tumors. Since April 3, the 32-year-old, heavily tattooed, body-pierced, shaved-head Canadian preacher has been leading a continuous "supernatural healing revival" in central Florida. To contain the 10,000-plus crowds flocking from around the globe, Bentley has rented baseball stadiums, arenas and airport hangars at a cost of up to $15,000 a day. Many in attendance are church pastors themselves who believe Bentley to be a prophet and don't bat an eye when he tells them he's seen King David and spoken with the Apostle Paul in heaven. "He was looking very Jewish," Bentley notes.

Tattooed across his sternum are military dog tags that read "Joel's Army." They're evidence of Bentley's generalship in a rapidly growing apocalyptic movement that's gone largely unnoticed by watchdogs of the theocratic right. According to Bentley and a handful of other "hyper-charismatic" preachers advancing the same agenda, Joel's Army is prophesied to become an Armageddon-ready military force of young people with a divine mandate to physically impose Christian "dominion" on non-believers.

"An end-time army has one common purpose -- to aggressively take ground for the kingdom of God under the authority of Jesus Christ, the Dread Champion," Bentley declares on the website for his ministry school in British Columbia, Canada. "The trumpet is sounding, calling on-fire, revolutionary believers to enlist in Joel's Army. ... Many are now ready to be mobilized to establish and advance God's kingdom on earth."

Joel's Army followers, many of them teenagers and young adults who believe they're members of the final generation to come of age before the end of the world, are breaking away in droves from mainline Pentecostal churches. Numbering in the tens of thousands, they base their beliefs on an esoteric reading of the second chapter of the Old Testament Book of Joel, in which an avenging swarm of locusts attacks Israel. In their view, the locusts are a metaphor for Joel's Army.

Despite their overt militancy, there's no evidence Joel's Army followers have committed any acts of violence. But critics warn that actual bloodletting may only be a matter of time for a movement that casts itself as God's avenging army.

Those sounding the alarm about Joel's Army are not secular foes of the Christian Right, few of whom are even aware of the movement or how widespread it's become in the past decade. Instead, Joel's Army critics are mostly conservative Christians, either neo-Pentecostals who left the movement in disgust or evangelical Christians who fear that Joel's Army preachers are stealing their flocks, even sending spies to infiltrate their own congregations and sway their young people to heresy. And they say the movement is becoming frightening.

"The pitch and intensity of the military rhetoric of this branch of the global Dominionist movement has substantially increased since the beginning of 2008," writes The Discernment Research Group, a Christian watchdog group that tracks what they call heresies or cults within Christianity. "One can only wonder how long before this transforms into real warfare with actual warriors."

'Snorting Religion'

Joel's Army believers are hard-core Christian dominionists, meaning they believe that America, along with the rest of the world, should be governed by conservative Christians and a conservative Christian interpretation of biblical law. There is no room in their doctrine for democracy or pluralism.

Dominionism's original branch is Christian Reconstructionism, a grim, Calvinist call to theocracy that, as Reconstructionist writer Gary North describes, wants to "get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God."

Notorious for endorsing the public execution by stoning of homosexuals and adulterers, the Christian Reconstructionist movement is far better known in secular America than Joel's Army. That's largely because Reconstructionists have made several serious forays into mainstream politics and received a fair amount of negative publicity as a result. Joel's Army followers eschew the political system, believing the path to world domination lies in taking over churches, not election to public office.

Another key difference between the two branches of dominionism, which maintain a testy, arms-length relationship with one another, is Christian Reconstructionism's buttoned-down image and heavy emphasis on Bible study, which contrasts sharply with Joel's Army anti-intellectual distrust of biblical scholars and its unruly style.

"Some people snort cocaine, others snort religions," Joel's Army Pastor Roy said while ministering a morning program at Todd Bentley's Lakeland, Fla., revival in late May.

As this article went to press, Bentley's "Florida Outpouring" had been running for more than 100 days straight. Many attendees came in search of spontaneous physical healing and a desire to be part of a mystical community marked by dancing, shouting, gyrating, speaking in tongues and other forms of ecstatic release.

Snide jabs at traditional church services are fairly common at Bentley's revivals. In fact, what takes place onstage at the Florida Outpouring looks more like a pro wrestling extravaganza than church. On stage, Bentley and his team of pastors, yell, chant, and scream "Fire!" and "Bam!" while anointing followers.

The audience members behave as if they are at a psychedelic counterculture festival. One couple jumps up and down twirling red and silver metallic flags. Dyed-haired teenagers pulled in by the revival's presence on Facebook and MySpace wander around looking dazed. Women lay facedown on the floor, convulsing and howling. Fathers wail in tongues as their confused children look on. Strangers lay hands on those who fail to produce tongues or gyrate wildly enough, pressuring them to "let it out."

Bentley is considered a prophet both by his followers and by other leaders of the Joel's Army movement, whose adherents claim to be reviving a "five-fold ministry" of prophets, apostles, elders, pastors and teachers, as outlined in the Book of Ephesians. Not every five-fold ministry is connected to the Joel's Army movement, but the movement has spurred an interest in modern-day apostles and prophets that's troubling to the Assemblies of God, the world's largest Pentecostal church, which has officially disavowed the Joel's Army movement.

In a 2001 position paper, Assemblies of God leaders wrote that they do not recognize modern-day apostles or prophets and worried that "such leaders prefer more authoritarian structures where their own word or decrees are unchallenged." They are right to worry. Joel's Army followers believe that once democratic institutions are overthrown, their hierarchy of apostles and prophets will rule over the earth, with one church per city.

Warrior Nation

According to Joel's Army doctrine, the enforcers of the five-fold ministry will be members of the final generation, for whom the landmark Supreme Court decision Roe v. Wade constituted a new Passover.

"Everyone born after abortion's legalization can consider their birth a personal invitation to take part in this great army," writes John Crowder, another prominent Joel's Army pastor, who bills his 2006 book, The New Mystics: How to Become Part of the Supernatural Generation, as a literal how-to guide for joining Joel's Army.

Both Bentley and Crowder are enormously popular on Elijah's List, an online watering hole for a broad spectrum of Joel's Army enlistees, from lightweight believers who merely share an affection for military rhetoric and pastors who dress in army camouflage (several Joel's Army pastors are addressed by their congregants as "commandant" or "commander") to hardliners who believe the church is called to have an active military role in end-times that have already begun. Elijah's List currently has more than 125,000 subscribers on its electronic mailing list.

Rick Joyner, a pastor whose books, The Harvest and The Call, helped popularize Joel's Army theology by selling more than a million copies each, goes the furthest on Elijah's List in pushing the hardliner approach. In 2006, he posted a sermon called "The Warrior Nation -- The New Sound of the Church," in which he claimed that a last-day army is now gathering and called believers "freedom fighters."

"As the church begins to take on this resolve, they [Joel's Army churches] will start to be thought of more as military bases, and they will begin to take on the characteristics of military bases for training, equipping, and deploying effective spiritual forces," Joyner wrote. "In time, the church will actually be organized more as a military force with an army, navy, air force, etc."

In a sort of disclaimer, Joyner writes at one point that God's army "will bring love, peace and stability wherever they go." But several of his books narrate with glee what he describes as "a coming civil war within the church." In his 1997 book The Harvest he writes: "Some pastors and leaders who continue to resist this tide of unity will be removed from their place. Some will become so hardened they will become opposers and resist God to the end."

Two years later, in his book The Final Quest, Joyner described a vision (taken as prophecy in the Joel's Army world, where Joyner is considered an "apostle") of the coming Christian Civil War in which demon-possessed Christian soldiers enslave other, weaker Christians who resist them. He also describes how the hero of the novel -- himself -- ascends a "Holy Mountain" in order to learn new truths and to acquire new, magic weapons.

Kids on Fire

Bentley, who claims to be a supernatural healer, is no less over the top, playing his biker-punk appearance and heavy metal theatrics to the hilt. On YouTube, where clips of his most dramatic healings have been condensed into a three-minute highlight reel, Bentley describes God ordering him to kick an elderly lady in the face: "I am thinking, 'God, why is the power of God not moving?' And He said, 'It is because you haven't kicked that women in the face.' And there was, like, this older lady worshipping right in front of the platform and the Holy Spirit spoke to me and the gift of faith came on me. He said, 'Kick her in the face ... with your biker boot.' I inched closer and I went like this [makes kicking motion]: Bam! And just as my boot made contact with her nose, she fell under the power of God."

The atmosphere is less charged with violence at "The Call," a 12-hour revival of up to 20,000 youths led by Joel's Army pastor Lou Engle and held every summer in a major American city (this year's event was scheduled for Washington, D.C. in August).

Attendees are called upon to fast and pray for 40 days and take up culture-war pledges to lead abstinent lives, reject pornography and fight abortion. They're further asked to perform "identificational repentance," lugging along family trees and genealogies to see where one of their ancestors may have enslaved or oppressed another so that they can make amends. (Many in the Joel's Army movement believe in generational curses that must be broken by the current generation).

As even his critics note, Engle is a sweet, humble and gentle man whose persona is difficult to reconcile with his belief in an end-time army of invincible young Christian warriors. Yet while Engle is careful to avoid deploying explicit Joel's Army rhetoric at high-profile events like The Call, when he's speaking in smaller hyper-charismatic circles to avowed Joel's Army followers, he can venture into bloodlust.

This March, at a "Passion for Jesus" conference in Kansas City sponsored by the International House of Prayer, or IHOP, a ministry for teenagers from the heavy metal, punk and goth scenes, Engle called on his audience for vengeance.

"I believe we're headed to an Elijah/Jezebel showdown on the Earth, not just in America but all over the globe, and the main warriors will be the prophets of Baal versus the prophets of God, and there will be no middle ground," said Engle. He was referring to the Baal of the Old Testament, a pagan idol whose followers were slaughtered under orders from the prophet Elijah.

"There's an Elijah generation that's going to be the forerunners for the coming of Jesus, a generation marked not by their niceness but by the intensity of their passion," Engle continued. "The kingdom of heaven suffers violence and the violent take it by force. Such force demands an equal response, and Jesus is going to make war on everything that hinders love, with his eyes blazing fire."

Although Joel's Army theology is mainly directed at people in their teens and early 20s via events like The Call and ministries like IHOP, sometimes the target audience is even younger. In some of the most arresting images in Jesus Camp, a 2006 documentary about the Kids on Fire bible camp in North Dakota, grade school-aged kids dressed in army fatigues wield swords and conduct military field maneuvers. "A lot of people die for God and they're not afraid," one camper told ABC News reporters in a follow-up segment.

"We're kinda being trained to be warriors," added another, "only in a funner way."

Cain and the Intellectuals

Both Christian and secular critics assailed the makers of Jesus Camp for referring to the camp's extremist, militant Christianity as "evangelical." There is a name, however, that describes Kids on Fire's agenda, if you're familiar with their theology: Joel's Army. Pastor Becky Fischer, who runs the camp, said that a third of the kids at her camp were under 6 years old because they are "more in touch in the supernatural" and proclaimed them to be "soldiers for God's Army." Her camp's blend of end-times militancy and supernaturalism is perfectly emblematic of the Joel's Army movement, whose adherents believe their cause is prophesied in the Old Testament chapter titled "An Army of Locusts."

The stark, evocative passages of that chapter describe a locust swarm that lays waste to Israel (to this day, the region suffers periodic locust invasions): "Like dawn spreading across the mountains a large and mighty army comes, such as never was of old nor ever will be in ages to come." As remarkable as the language is, most biblical scholars agree that it is a literal description of a locust invasion and resulting famine that occurred sometime between the 9th and 5th centuries B.C.E.

In the Book of Joel, the locust invasion is described as an omen that an Assyrian army to the north may attack Israel if it fails to repent as a nation. But nowhere is the invasion described as an army of God. According to an Assemblies of God position paper: "It is a complete misinterpretation of Scripture to find in Joel's army of locusts a militant, victorious force attacking society and a non-cooperating Church to prepare the earth for Christ's millennial reign."

The story of how an ancient insect invasion came to be a rallying flag for 21st-century dominonists begins just after World War II in Canada. Out of a small town in Saskatchewan, a Pentecostal preacher named William Branham spearheaded a 1948 revival in which he claimed that his followers lived in a new biblical time of "Latter Rain."

The most sinless and ardent of his flock would be called "Manifest Sons of God." By the next year, the movement was so strong -- and seemed so subversive to some -- that the Assemblies of God banned it as a heretic cult. But Branham remained a controversial figure with a loyal following; many of his followers believed him to be the end-times prophet Elijah.

Michael Barkun, a leading scholar of radical religion, notes that in 1958, Branham began teaching "Serpent Seed" doctrine, the belief that Satan had sex with Eve, resulting in Cain and his descendants. "Through Cain came all the smart, educated people down to the antediluvian flood -- the intellectuals, bible colleges," Branham wrote in the kind of anti-mainstream religion, anti-intellectual spirit that pervades the Joel's Army movement to this day. "They know all their creeds but know nothing about God."

The Gates of Hell

Branham was killed in a car accident in 1965, but his Manifest Sons of God movement, the direct predecessor of Joel's Army, lived on within a cluster of hyper-charismatic churches. In the 1980s, Branham's teachings took on new life at the Kansas City Fellowship (KCF), a group of popular self-styled apostles and prophets who used the Missouri church as a launching pad for national careers promoting outright Joel's Army theology.

Ernie Gruen, a local pastor who initially promoted and gave citywide credibility to KCF pastors in the early 1980s, cut his connections in 1990. Concerned about KCF's plans to push its teachings worldwide, Gruen published a 132-page insider's account, based on taped sermons and conversations and interviews with parents who had enrolled their kids in KCF's Dominion school.

According to Gruen's report, students at the school were taught that they were a "super-race" of the "elected seed" of all the best bloodlines of all generations -- foreknown, predestined, and hand-selected from billions of others to be part of the "end-time Omega generation."

Though he'd once promoted these doctrines himself, Gruen became convinced that the movement was turning into an end-times cult, marked by what he summarized as "spiritual threats, fears, and warnings of death," "warning followers to beware of other Christians" and exhibiting "a 'super-race' mentality toward the training of their children."

When contacted by the Intelligence Report, Gruen's spokesman said that Gruen stands by everything he published in the report but no longer grants media interviews.

The Kansas City Fellowship remains in operation and has served as a farm team for many of the all-stars of the Joel's Army movement. Those larger-than-life figures include John Wimber, the founder of a California megachurch, The Vineyard, who, before his death in 1997, proclaimed that Joel's Army would not only conquer the earth but defeat death itself. Lou Engle founded The Call based on the Joel's Army visions that KCF "prophet" Bob Jones (not to be confused with Bob Jones III of Bob Jones University) received while at KCF. Mike Bickle, another KCF member, stayed in Kansas City to form the International House of Prayer.

IHOP members and other Joel's Army adherents are well aware of how their movement is perceived by other conservative Christians.

"Today, you can type 'Joel's Army' into a search engine and a thousand heresy hunter websites pop up, decrying the very mention of it," writes John Crowder in The New Mystics. Crowder doesn't exactly allay critic's fears. "This is truly warfare," he writes. "This battle is not a game. They [Joel's Army warriors] will not be on the defense; they will be on the offense -- and the gates of hell will not be able to hold up against them."

So far, few members of the secular media have taken notice of Joel's Army, even as they report on Protestant dominionists like Pat Robertson or the more outrageous calls for the stoning of gays and lesbians emanating from Reconstructionist circles. There are exceptions, however. On the DailyKos, a well-read, politically liberal blog, a diarist has been blogging for two years about her experiences as a walkaway from a Joel's Army church. She writes under a pseudonym out of fear of physical reprisals.

She may have real cause for concern. As Wimber, the late founder of The Vineyard, put it in one of his most famous and fiery sermons, one that is still frequently cited by Joel's Army followers: "Those in this army will have His kind of power. ... Anyone who wants to harm them must die."

Comments 1 - 50 of 70 |

Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers

1. Comment #240357 by spaghettifier on August 31, 2008 at 11:40 am

 avatarpeople like that are a danger to society and the sane world, if a millitant secular uit ever arises, it would be for defense from these nutjobs, we should make a society like in wanted, just without magical cloth, just logic.

Other Comments by spaghettifier

2. Comment #240367 by Forti on August 31, 2008 at 12:07 pm

 avatarDear USA: Please DO FUCKING SOMETHING about the extremism already.

Here I am sitting in another continent and I'm justifiably worried about what this could turn into

So yeah.

Other Comments by Forti

3. Comment #240368 by J Mac on August 31, 2008 at 12:10 pm

 avatar"Here I am sitting in another continent and I'm justifiably worried about what this could turn into"

Oh come on, it's not that bad. It's not like one day our president is going to decide to go on a rampage trampling through other countries due to nothing but his religious ideals and his superiority complex.

Oh wait. Never mind, you can be worried.

Other Comments by J Mac

4. Comment #240372 by Koreman on August 31, 2008 at 12:14 pm

 avatarGreat. Sect number 92374488372283 and counting. Sickening and disgusting. Religious fascism to the bone. Traumatizing mental child abuse causing many casualties. Why? Because of despicable selfish money and power hungry leaders. The novel 1984 comes to mind.

How on earth is it possible that in 2008 so many people buy crazy shit from sick freaks? Is it because those freaks go just a few steps further than what is commonly accepted by regular religious folks?

These things need to stop. Religion should be 18 . Period.

Other Comments by Koreman

5. Comment #240380 by FishSci on August 31, 2008 at 12:24 pm

Darwin was wrong: We are not ape descendants after all.

The apes descended from us in order to get away from people like that.

Seriously, the big hope I have is that this sect's whackiness cancels itself out in small-scale skirmishes with other whacky sects.

Other Comments by FishSci

6. Comment #240387 by Koreman on August 31, 2008 at 12:28 pm

 avatarWhat an utterly disgusting man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUTCWLoD4-4

Other Comments by Koreman

7. Comment #240388 by NMcC on August 31, 2008 at 12:28 pm

For Christsake don't take any of this tripe seriously (unless your name is Fanusi, in which case, leave those Muslim hordes alone and get stuck into these lunatics).

Seriously, though, it's all practically past tense. Bentley has since been caught manifesting himself in the flesh to his female 'assistant' and has been exposed as a serious boozer to boot - which is exactly what he has been given from his 'revival'.

Don't you just love the Christian God's sense of humour though? Not only has old Fraud Intently fallen at the first hurdle, but, apparently, William Branham was sent by God to raise up an army of fighters for God's cause - unfortunately, before he can do the biz that God entrusted him to do, he gets killed in a car crash.

You couldn't make it up.

Other Comments by NMcC

8. Comment #240399 by Border Collie on August 31, 2008 at 12:47 pm

Wow, thanks for sharing. I feel better now. Not.
This is what we get here after eight years of a government that has done everything it possibly could to disenfranchise the entire population of the United States. Doesn't matter, if they start carrying guns, the ATF, FBI and every other tobacco-chewing, ass-scratching, doughnut-eating, high school girl-chasing law enforcement agency in the US will just come in and kill them all just like they did in Waco in 1993. Do I sound bitter?

Other Comments by Border Collie

9. Comment #240401 by Border Collie on August 31, 2008 at 12:52 pm

After I thought about it, who cares, they'll probably all just move to Texas and become a beer drinking pickup driving cult on George Bush's Crawford ranch.

Other Comments by Border Collie

10. Comment #240404 by NewEnglandBob on August 31, 2008 at 12:53 pm

 avatar
They base their beliefs on an esoteric reading of the second chapter of the Old Testament Book of Joel...


The Old testament has 5 books: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. There is no book of Joel.

I stopped reading this garbage because I know the rest is just loony-toon superstitious interpretation of other looney-toon superstions.

Can't wackos like this be treated for mental health diseases?

Other Comments by NewEnglandBob

11. Comment #240405 by NMcC on August 31, 2008 at 12:53 pm

"Do I sound bitter?"

No. You sound like you might have consumed a lot of it.

Other Comments by NMcC

12. Comment #240406 by Deicide on August 31, 2008 at 12:54 pm

I believe that I just read on Pharyngula that potential US Vice President Sarah Palen is associated with a church in Alaska that has close ties to these "Joel's Army" types... whatever the case, she sure is popular with the lunatic right-wing fringe.

Other Comments by Deicide

13. Comment #240407 by dochmbi on August 31, 2008 at 12:54 pm

 avatarSouns like a LARP to me. A life action roleplaying game.
They just disguised it as religious fanaticism to get more publicity.

Other Comments by dochmbi

14. Comment #240424 by Koreman on August 31, 2008 at 1:16 pm

 avatarDon't party too soon. Dungeons and Dragons is far from over yet.

http://www.thevoicemagazine.com/blog/breaking-news/peter-wagner-expounds-on-todd-bentley-fiasco/

Other Comments by Koreman

15. Comment #240426 by Polaris29 on August 31, 2008 at 1:19 pm

 avatarAnd they call us "MILITANT atheists", funny.

Other Comments by Polaris29

16. Comment #240436 by beanson on August 31, 2008 at 1:32 pm

 avatarNewEnglandBob

The Old testament has 5 books: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. There is no book of Joel.


You're thinking of the Pentatuch

Other Comments by beanson

17. Comment #240449 by geru on August 31, 2008 at 1:44 pm

Incredible. The old tricks of selling snake oil to idiots work just as well in the 21st century, as they did a thousand years ago.

Makes me wonder why I should bother getting a job anyway, when there's hundreds of millions of people out there just waiting to hand over all their money to the first charismatic figure that comes along promising an easy fix to all their problems.

"Be healed, my brother! ...and by the way, the Sacred Jesus Oilâ„¢ costs $29.95 per bottle."

Other Comments by geru

18. Comment #240465 by 8teist on August 31, 2008 at 1:56 pm

 avatarJoels Army , anyone with an IQ greater than their shoe size need not apply for membership.

Other Comments by 8teist

19. Comment #240506 by DamnDirtyApe on August 31, 2008 at 2:32 pm

 avatarWell that was depressing.

Other Comments by DamnDirtyApe

20. Comment #240534 by quill on August 31, 2008 at 3:05 pm

 avatarComment #240367 by Forti:

Dear USA: Please DO FUCKING SOMETHING about the extremism already.

Here I am sitting in another continent and I'm justifiably worried about what this could turn into

So yeah.


Dear Fortli: Maybe you should think about possibly doing something yourself, instead of expecting us to solve your problems for you.

So yeah.

Other Comments by quill

21. Comment #240542 by Border Collie on August 31, 2008 at 3:12 pm

NMcC ... No not really bitter. Just having a bad day. Article did, for some reason, make me think about the Janet Reno and buddies fiasco in Waco fifteen years ago and how most of these cultist types are generally just a bunch of disenfranchised, powerless, not very educated people who get together to bullshit each other and try to feel brave in a world they don't understand. Then if they get a little carried away and purchase a few firearms, here comes the doughnut-munching cavalry to kill them all along with their children. And really, most of them just happened to get addicted to religion instead of drugs or alcohol, so they'd be just as much at home drinking beer and shooting the cans and bottles with their shootin' irons as they are in their little Christian cult we're-gonna-take-over-the-world thing. Pretty crazy stuff.

Other Comments by Border Collie

22. Comment #240554 by Border Collie on August 31, 2008 at 3:19 pm

NMcC ... Help me out here ... 'consumed a lot of it' ... I'm not a Brit. Are you referring to consuming bitter as in drink? Actually, doesn't sound like such a bad idea ... That, a steak, baked potato and a little salad ...

Other Comments by Border Collie

23. Comment #240558 by Apathy personified on August 31, 2008 at 3:25 pm

 avatar*sigh*
Another sect/cult that wants to take over the world - this one does seem more, er, focussed, on the destruction of contemporary culture than others though.
It's nice to see some honesty here, instead of sneaking into politics and corrupting secular governments from the inside, at least they are planning to attack from the outside, in the good old fashioned way. This makes it very easy for them to be destroyed - wait for them to make an armed compound... how long would the FBI wait before going in?

Other Comments by Apathy personified

24. Comment #240568 by NMcC on August 31, 2008 at 3:35 pm

BORDER COLLIE

Yes, it is a drink, as in 'I'll have a pint of yer best bitter, if you would be so kind, landlord'. And, after the 10th: 'Ere, are you looking at my bird, ya bastard!'

That was a good quess with the food, that's exactly what you'd eat with it - the first one that is. The 10th pint, a multi-cultural curry or kebab - in the middle of which you'd throw up.

Other Comments by NMcC

25. Comment #240633 by Border Collie on August 31, 2008 at 6:06 pm

Apathy ... Relative to the US governmental handling of the Waco 'armed compound' thing, a freshman psychology student with a case of beer, some cheese and crackers and a big smile could have handled it better. I have never seen such a bunch of gun-toting morons trying to capture and incarcerate a slightly wacko preacher. These 'law enforcement' agencies here create a crisis like that every few years to bump their funding up some, take a little target practice and ruin the lives of people who don't have much of a life to ruin in the first place. Hell, he went into Waco every morning to buy an Egg McMuffin at McDonalds with, I think, one body guard. They could have gotten him then instead of creating a national news media event. But, then, where would their funding be? It's why I'm, in a sense, grateful for terrorists. Our government can go kill them in other countries instead of killing us.

NMcC ... Thanks for the short lesson on 'bitter'. I thought that's what you were talking about. I've had Guiness, I think, it's been awhile. It does go well with beefsteak.

Other Comments by Border Collie

26. Comment #240648 by Quine on August 31, 2008 at 7:13 pm

 avatarAnother McVeigh class dangerous nut case?

Other Comments by Quine

27. Comment #240651 by NakedCelt on August 31, 2008 at 7:33 pm

See, I fear this kind of thing is likely to gain a lot of power in the coming economic crisis...

Other Comments by NakedCelt

28. Comment #240674 by Godfree Gordon on August 31, 2008 at 8:55 pm

 avatarThey sound like a Christian version of Koraniacs

Other Comments by Godfree Gordon

29. Comment #240685 by rod-the-farmer on August 31, 2008 at 9:49 pm

 avatarAccckkkk. (Holds face in hands). As a Canadian, I wish to dissociate myself and other Canadians from the two loonies mentioned as key people in this tale. And as for the remark about

an Assyrian army to the north may attack

I feel confident that is not us. We have a lot of troops in Afghanistan at the moment, otherwise occupied.

Other Comments by rod-the-farmer

30. Comment #240688 by Eshto on August 31, 2008 at 9:54 pm

 avatar
Dear USA: Please DO FUCKING SOMETHING about the extremism already.


I'M ON IT!!!

(dons superhero costume, leaps out window)

Other Comments by Eshto

31. Comment #240689 by b0ltzm0n on August 31, 2008 at 9:54 pm

 avatar
Comment #240387 by Koreman on August 31, 2008 at 12:28 pm

What an utterly disgusting man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUTCWLoD4-4


I imagine an alternate version of this video where the guy with stage 4 cancer does a knee block followed by an upper cut, leaving Bentley unconscious on the stage. And then he says, "Shit, I still have cancer... but I do feel a hell of a lot better now!"

Other Comments by b0ltzm0n

32. Comment #240691 by Laurie Fraser on August 31, 2008 at 9:59 pm

 avatarIt. Just. Makes. Me. Want. To. Kiiiiiiiiiiiilllllllllllll !

Other Comments by Laurie Fraser

33. Comment #240694 by mordacious1 on August 31, 2008 at 10:38 pm

Settle down Laurie. Take a spin in the Volvo, pick up a few beers, come back home and relax over a cool one. (goes to other room to retrieve Guinness)

Other Comments by mordacious1

34. Comment #240695 by mordacious1 on August 31, 2008 at 10:56 pm

Laurie (if you're still around)

They had a shooting at a local Sikh Temple today and the news reported:

"The crowd heard the gunshots and saw the men with the guns," said Sgt. Tim Curran. "They (crowd) tackled one of the suspects and detained him."

The crowd then turned the man over to police, who suffered injuries when the crowd hit him with field hockey and cricket sticks, Curran said.

I wonder where TWP is?

Other Comments by mordacious1

35. Comment #240697 by Alternative Carpark on August 31, 2008 at 11:12 pm

 avatar...in the Appendix to the Apocrypha: "And the Lord said unto Joel, `Singgeth us a song, for thou art the piano man'.

These people should be locked up, simply for the contempt with which they treat the sick and dying.

Other Comments by Alternative Carpark

36. Comment #240701 by ebugogo on August 31, 2008 at 11:43 pm

 avatarHAHAHA Comment 240689 b0ltzm0n
I share your vision!

Other Comments by ebugogo

37. Comment #240715 by scottishgeologist on September 1, 2008 at 12:49 am

 avatarI wonder how much of this Armageddonist "rapture ready" style thinking is actually in the UK as well.

I read an article on what Billy would refer to a as a "fundie nut-sack" (!!!) web site.

Go here:

www.christianstogether.net (which is a Scotland, UK based website)

and click on the link:

"James Bond, Putin and Ezekiel"

(I'd post the whole URL but it is immnese)

More biblical prophecy and "end times events" These people are mad.

In fact there is a lot of mad stuff on that particular web site. It is very charismatic, seems to endorse Todd Bentley.

Its more or less on my patch and I would love to know who is actually behind it. I suspect it is NOT traditional Highland Christians, who are nearly all cessationist and quite traditional(might be creationists and conservative in a lot of respects, but not madmen)

I suspect it is "incomers" to the area who have latched on to the indigenous relgiosity. I have experienced this many times with these smaller, charismatic groups throughout the area.

Nutters the lot of them....

:-))
SG

PS: Has to be said, at least our old friend David Robertson has spoken out in the strongest possible terms I have seen yet against Todd Bentley and Lakeland. He had an article posted on that "christians together" site and it also appears in the latest issue of his church's magazine.

Mind you, DR isnt stupid. He knows that this sort of thing is highly damaging and embarassing. His only option really is to attack it full on. Silence could be taken as tacit endorsement.

Other Comments by scottishgeologist

38. Comment #240745 by Donald on September 1, 2008 at 2:00 am

What I find disturbing about the story in this article is not so much the "Joel's Army" movement, bizarre and unhealthy though that is, but what it reveals about human nature and the numbers of humans who can be encouraged to follow silly nonsense.

It is a reminder that intelligent, well-educated people are a minority of the total of humanity, and vulnerable to the winds and storms of popular opinion and misguided democratic decisions. Not that the average dictatorship is any better.

Sorry for the gloom. Please resume your normal optimistic outlook. Thank you.

Other Comments by Donald

39. Comment #240764 by Roger Stanyard on September 1, 2008 at 2:44 am

 avatarI think it has already been mentioned on the forum but the home church of John McCain's running mate, Sarah Palin, appears to be connected to and endorses Joel's Army.

People should be seriously worried that a woman who may well end up as President of the USA is associated with a death cult. She will have her finger on the button for nuclear bombs.

Other Comments by Roger Stanyard

40. Comment #240776 by mixmastergaz on September 1, 2008 at 3:09 am

 avatarSurely Sarah Palin's church's endorsement of a guy who kicks deluded old ladies in the face is going to be a vote winner with the republican base.

Other Comments by mixmastergaz

41. Comment #240829 by AnthonyH on September 1, 2008 at 5:46 am

Of course, like an (un)surprising number of these types of unhealthy characters, Todd Bentley has a couple of weeks ago stepped down from preaching after forming an "unhealthy relationship" with a female staffer.

http://www.freshfire.ca/printpage_content.php?id=1065

It's just SO hard to practice what you preach, isn't it?

Other Comments by AnthonyH

42. Comment #240831 by ColdFusionLazarus on September 1, 2008 at 6:07 am

 avatarAnthonyH

Very interesting. Why am I not surprised.

37. Comment #240715 by scottishgeologist on September 1, 2008 at 12:49 am
From where I am, in the south-east of England, it's getting all too common to see the "charismatic" movements getting a foot in the door of Anglican churches. I guess continual movement of people in and out of the area is part of the reason, but I also think that the "falling numbers" mean that desparate measures are needed to bring 'em in. You can't beat a good-old-fashioned magic show for entertaining the masses.

Other Comments by ColdFusionLazarus

43. Comment #240841 by Quetzalcoatl on September 1, 2008 at 6:49 am

 avatarThe charismatics may be getting people in their churches, but that's only because they do a good job of hiding the fact that they have nothing new to offer, and all the problems bedevilling the Anglicans are still there for the charismatics, just below the surface.

Other Comments by Quetzalcoatl

44. Comment #240849 by Apathy personified on September 1, 2008 at 7:07 am

 avatarBorder Collie,
I didn't know what the Waco seige you were talking about was (at the time i was 6 and in SE England), now i've looked it up....
Shit, what an absolute balls up.

I take back what i said, let the group build an armed compound and instead of the FBI, we'll send the A team in - less collateral damage and no one dies.

Other Comments by Apathy personified

45. Comment #240853 by FatherNature on September 1, 2008 at 7:11 am

 avatar
mixmastergaz wrote:
Surely Sarah Palin's church's endorsement of a guy who kicks deluded old ladies in the face is going to be a vote winner with the republican base.


I doubt that most of them will ever hear about it. The mainsteam media in the US won't mention the whacko religious stuff for fear of being criticized for "attacking her religion". They'll simply label her "pro-life" and figure that's all anyone needs to know. Lazy reporting is norm these days.

Unless better informed voters turn out as never before, we may be screwed.

Other Comments by FatherNature

46. Comment #240857 by skip on September 1, 2008 at 7:26 am

 avatarDon't just read about him see him for yourself here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6DMK_A2L3c

Skip

Other Comments by skip

47. Comment #240876 by jshuey on September 1, 2008 at 8:05 am

 avatar"What I find disturbing about the story in this article is not so much the "Joel's Army" movement, bizarre and unhealthy though that is, but what it reveals about human nature and the numbers of humans who can be encouraged to follow silly nonsense." (Donald)

It's not so mysterious really, when you remember that by definition half of the population is stuck with below-average intelligence.

Other Comments by jshuey

48. Comment #240881 by mixmastergaz on September 1, 2008 at 8:20 am

 avatarFather Nature:

I'm sure you're right about that. I caught the tail-end of an interview with a female McCain campaign leader (sorry, can't remember her name) on the Channel 4 news here in the UK a couple of nights ago and it was most revealing. She studiously avoided answering any of the questions put to her and used every opportunity simply to argue that channel 4 news was biased in Obama's favour. She offered no evidence for this and the claim seemed completely spurious to me. Given that channel 4 is legally obliged to maintain impartiality (a requirement, as I understand it, that TV news reporting in the US does not have to adhere to), and employs legal advisors to ensure that this is the case it seems very unlikely that an objective observer would agree with her assessment of the coverage. My (admittedly partial and biased) impression was that what she was really complaining about was the fact that the reporting was not obviously biased in her own party's favour; a state of affairs she is probably accustomed to in the US.

It has been reported here in the UK that Obama is now exclusively referred to by Fox News as Barack Hussein Obama. Is this really the case? That seems to me to be worse than the whole "he looks French" crap.

Other Comments by mixmastergaz

49. Comment #240911 by Richard Feldmann on September 1, 2008 at 9:23 am

#13 and 14: Leave role playing games out of this. There is nothing similar between a convicted paedophile conning people out of their money and what is essentially an evolved board game.

Other Comments by Richard Feldmann

50. Comment #240912 by FatherNature on September 1, 2008 at 9:24 am

 avatarMixmastergaz
Tried posing a response but it went into hyperspace so here goes again.

You're right about no requirement for impartiality in US media. There used to be one, called the "fairness doctrine" but was overturned through the efforts ($$) of the broadcasting lobby.

"Attack the reporter" is an old right-wing tactic. Conservatives in the US still complain that the media is biased in favor of the left. It's absurd but they just won't give it up.

I don't know what Fox is saying these days since I set my TV to skip that channel. I couldn't take the "fair and balanced" propaganda anymore. I did hear a TV news clip in which Rush L pointedly used the "Hussein" middle name so it wouldn't surprise me if Fox has taken to reinforcing the lie that Obama is a muslim. I predict that you'll hear it repeated at least once during the republican convention (that is, if you bother to watch that little lovefest).

Other Comments by FatherNature
Reload Comments | Back to Top

More Comments: 1 2 | Next | Last

Comment Entry: Please Login

Register a new account

Username:

Password: