1. Comment #240411 by Quine on August 31, 2008 at 12:58 pm

Steve's argument about what Atheists yell during sex beats anything I have ever heard from any theologian.

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2. Comment #240412 by m-man on August 31, 2008 at 12:58 pm

i love colbert, and i know its comedy, but i wish he would have let her talk more.. or at all.

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3. Comment #240419 by Edamus on August 31, 2008 at 1:09 pm

Oh, Charles Darwin!

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4. Comment #240421 by NewEnglandBob on August 31, 2008 at 1:11 pm

Look again at the video - When Colbert looks down, his receding hairline on the sides, more than the middle makes him look like he has devil's horns!

Colbert is unique in his humor. You can't help smiling, if not outright belly laughing.

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5. Comment #240422 by MikedubB on August 31, 2008 at 1:11 pm

Letting her have any control in the interview would have put her above all the other lobbyists that he has lambasted. I thought it was comedic gold.

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6. Comment #240423 by J Mac on August 31, 2008 at 1:15 pm

"Letting her have any control in the interview would have put her above all the other lobbyists"

True, but a bit sad that the only fair and unbiased political reports in america are on comedy central.

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7. Comment #240434 by Richard Dawkins on August 31, 2008 at 1:28 pm

"Oh Charles Darwin".
"Oh Science".

Tell me honestly, does anybody really find that funny? Or is it just that you kind of know it is SUPPOSED to be funny and therefore you kind of think well, perhaps it is funny? Like South Park. Not witty, not clever, but you know it is SUPPOSED to be funny, so you'd better say how hilarious it is or you won't be cool?

Well, I think "Oh Science" is neither funny nor unfunny but sort of, well, nothing really.

And as for singing "God Bless America" all the way through! Wouldn't a couple of lines have sufficed? Did anybody else get a sort of rising feeling of squirming embarrassment as he just kept on to the end? If he was trying to embarrass her because she didn't want to join in, he probably succeeded, but what's the point?

Richard

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8. Comment #240439 by J Mac on August 31, 2008 at 1:33 pm

"And as for singing "God Bless America" all the way through!..."

A couple lines certainly could make a point if that was his intent. But plowing through the whole thing is the type of over reacting, over done work that Steven is known for.

I certainly don't think his humor is for everyone. But personally I find him quite entertaining.

Similarly with the "Oh Darwin" joke, its not funny in itself, but Steven's delivery of it makes it good for a laugh for some.

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9. Comment #240441 by Diacanu on August 31, 2008 at 1:37 pm

Richard Dawkins-

"Oh Charles Darwin".
"Oh Science".

Tell me honestly, does anybody really find that funny?

Well, yeah, a little.
It was funnier when Bill Hicks did it, and used "big bang", and "chemical chance", but, meh, whatever.

Or is it just that you kind of know it is SUPPOSED to be funny and therefore you kind of think well, perhaps it is funny?

Well, I think it is neither funny nor unfunny but sort of, well, nothing really.

And as for singing "God Bless America" all the way through! Wouldn't a couple of lines have sufficed. Did anybody else get a sort of rising feeling of embarrassment as he just kept on to the end?

You were kinda supposed to.
I think that was the gag.
Remember, he's doing a parody of a conservative pundit, and never breaks character, and that's the kind of crap they do.

Me, I think it's a crappy song, so it makes me uncomfortable anyway.
But, that could be a another layer to it.

I more laughed at the little "key change", "here's where you come in", bits.

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10. Comment #240446 by Matt H. on August 31, 2008 at 1:41 pm

"Oh Charles Darwin".
"Oh Science".

Tell me honestly, does anybody really find that funny? Or is it just that you kind of know it is SUPPOSED to be funny and therefore you kind of think well, perhaps it is funny? Like South Park. Not witty, not clever, but you know it is SUPPOSED to be funny, so you'd better say how hilarious it is or you won't be cool?

Well, I think "Oh Science" is neither funny nor unfunny but sort of, well, nothing really.

And as for singing "God Bless America" all the way through! Wouldn't a couple of lines have sufficed? Did anybody else get a sort of rising feeling of squirming embarrassment as he just kept on to the end? If he was trying to embarrass her because she didn't want to join in, he probably succeeded, but what's the point?

Richard

Definitely not my type of humour. I think it's all a bit pathetic really.

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11. Comment #240448 by Diacanu on August 31, 2008 at 1:43 pm

Matt-

*Smirk* apple polisher.

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12. Comment #240453 by J Mac on August 31, 2008 at 1:46 pm

Personally I compare Steven Colbert's comic style to Steve Martin. Neither of them are known for great lines or great jokes, but rather the delivery and the whole hearted commitment to a completely ridiculous sketch without a moment of doubt or hesitation.

Perhaps the greatest laugh I have ever had was in the movie "My Blue Heaven" where Steve Martin does the joke "What's the difference between a light bulb and a pregnant lady? ..." And old joke that has never been that funny, but I nearly fell out of my chair when he did it.

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13. Comment #240455 by J Mac on August 31, 2008 at 1:48 pm

Steven Colbert, Steve Martin, and Diacanu...

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14. Comment #240456 by Diacanu on August 31, 2008 at 1:48 pm

J Mac-
post 12

Agreed.

Also, the reactions he gets out of people, and then how he plays with that are great.

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15. Comment #240458 by Diacanu on August 31, 2008 at 1:51 pm

J Mac-
post 13

Aw, shucks. :P

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16. Comment #240460 by Ex~ on August 31, 2008 at 1:52 pm

What do you think of the fact that a belief in God has led to some of mankinds most stunning achievements

*she nods*

>>WHAT. WHAT??? This is our secular coalition leader? A belief in God didn't lead to any of those great achievements! Amazing talented artists led to those achievements! HUMANITY led to those achievements!


Well there's [sic] a lot of artists who are not religious.

Name one.

Ehmmm... there's a list that I have in my office.

What a shame,

I'm not remember...

What a shame it's up in your office. Looks like I won.

Was Picasso an atheist?

That's your example?

If you take a visit to the museum of modern art --

The guy didn't know how many tatas to put on a lady's torso. Okay? "Yeah throw one over there throw one over there." I'll tell you one thing, God knows where that stuff goes, 'cause he put it there.

When it comes out right I mean there are people who are born with various other...


>>WHAT THE FUCK? This is our secular coalition leader? Who's defending Picasso's abstract art by claiming he was painting pictures of hermaphrodites or "intersexual" people???

Wow. She severely disappointed me.

Colbert was hilarious, though.

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17. Comment #240464 by J Mac on August 31, 2008 at 1:56 pm

Ex~

Perhaps she isn't the MOST eloquent and quick witted atheist out there, but she is a lobbyist not a professional debater, giver her a little slack.

Colbert is good at what he does, and what he does is tear apart any person who he interviews. You'd be hard pressed to find someone that Colbert could not pwn on his own show.

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18. Comment #240466 by Richard Dawkins on August 31, 2008 at 1:57 pm

I think Steven Colbert can sometimes be funny. Just not on this occasion. I only wanted to call attention to a tendency for some people to PRETEND to find something funny, almost as a DUTY, whether it is really funny or not, simply because they feel it is expected of them. I felt it strongly over that childish film clip called 'Beware the Believers' or some such name. Lots of people chimed in with words like 'hilarious', simply because it seemed to be EXPECTED of them. It's SUPPOSED to be funny, so surely it must BE funny! I just think we should be more critical. Some things that are supposed to be funny fail in their ambition.

Richard

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19. Comment #240467 by Dhamma on August 31, 2008 at 1:57 pm

Richard:

Yes, he is embarrassing, but it's a preferred taste. I can understand those who like him, even though I find him very annoying. However, watching this I came to the conclusion he's probably an atheist actually, he just wanted to joke around with her. Quite disrespectfully though.

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20. Comment #240470 by mordacious1 on August 31, 2008 at 2:00 pm

So when Brown says that Irving Berlin was a nontheist, and Colbert is "shocked" and says he was Jewish, "Are you saying Jews don't believe in god?". Brown replies that she thinks he was a secularist Jew. To which Colbert says, "He wrote 'White Christmas'". So does this mean Jews believe in christ? Funny, but stupid at the same time.

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21. Comment #240472 by Peacebeuponme on August 31, 2008 at 2:00 pm

Richard Dawkins

Like South Park. Not witty, not clever, but you know it is SUPPOSED to be funny, so you'd better say how hilarious it is or you won't be cool?

Actually South Park can be very clever. Many episodes have contained some quite brilliant pieces of social commentary or media attacks.

The episode which uses an elementary school head boy election as a commentary on the last US election, which also puts Rosie O'Donnell in her place, springs immediately to mind.

I suspect you haven't been able to get past the purile elements, which I also find clever in their own way.

But then I see nothing funny in Pat Condell's youtube videos, unlike you, so I guess we all have our own preferred style of humour.

I think Steven Colbert can sometimes be funny. Just not on this occasion.

I agree with this though.

I felt it strongly over that childish film clip called 'Beware the Believers' or some such name. Lots of people chimed in with words like 'hilarious', simply because it seemed to be EXPECTED of them. It's SUPPOSED to be funny, so surely it must BE funny! I just think we should be more critical. Some things that are supposed to be funny fail in their ambition.

And this.

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22. Comment #240473 by Richard Dawkins on August 31, 2008 at 2:01 pm

Colbert was hilarious, though.

"Hilarious?" Really? Name one "hilarious" thing he said. Just because he is SUPPOSED to be funny doesn't mean he IS funny on all occasions, let alone "hilarious".

Richard

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23. Comment #240474 by DamnDirtyApe on August 31, 2008 at 2:01 pm

Eh, mildy amusing, but not as good as the episode of 'Mock the week' I just watched on iplayer.

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24. Comment #240477 by zendal on August 31, 2008 at 2:02 pm

Sure it's funny. The problem with parody is that it can be too close to the truth for it to be funny.

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25. Comment #240478 by Quine on August 31, 2008 at 2:03 pm

Kidding aside, what people yell during sex, and why, is an interesting scientific question (relates to what parts of the brain get control during what situations). Perhaps it is something the Kinsey Institute could take up in future research. I can't translate "Oh God!" into all mammalian species, but I have certainly heard it enough from cats.

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26. Comment #240486 by Forti on August 31, 2008 at 2:13 pm

I think even I could have done better than that lady.

By the way, can anyone name any famous atheist artists? Not that it matters, but it's an interesting question. (P.S. Give me a few years and I'll be one!)

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27. Comment #240487 by J Mac on August 31, 2008 at 2:14 pm

Quine, your personal affiliations with cats has no business being on this site.

:o)

Sorry couldn't resist that one.

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28. Comment #240490 by Nuspirit on August 31, 2008 at 2:17 pm

Remember, he's doing a parody of a conservative pundit, and never breaks character, and that's the kind of crap they do.

Just wanted to further emphasize this since a lot of people seem to forget/overlook this rather essential fact to understanding any of Colbert's comedy (singing God Bless America all the way through being a good example of this).

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29. Comment #240491 by Yadsmood on August 31, 2008 at 2:18 pm

Richard,

I didn't like this Colbert video, but I thought the "Beware the Believers" video GENUINELY funny. So did many people. We really did find it hilarious. It had nothing to do with perceived obligation.

Your insistence that we must be disingenuous is hard to understand. I can only assume that due to your age, you simply don't "get" the humour.

I suggest you drop this line of objection, as it makes you appear sore and stuck-up.

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30. Comment #240493 by Quine on August 31, 2008 at 2:19 pm

Wasn't that already going about informed consent on one of the ethics threads?

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31. Comment #240494 by Richard Dawkins on August 31, 2008 at 2:21 pm

I think even I could have done better than that lady.

Yes, that has perennially been the cry of armchair critics. Sure, we can all do better, in the comfort of our own homes. You just try it when you are up there in the spotlight, with the cameras rolling. I thought she was given an extremely difficult time of it, and did as well as could be expected.
Richard

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32. Comment #240495 by mordacious1 on August 31, 2008 at 2:21 pm

Adding to my earlier post: I think it's funny that the two major holidays for xians, have two of their main songs, Easter Parade and White Christmas written by a Jew. Does that make Berlin a christian, or a guy trying to make a buck? Similar to those great artists of old that Colbert was referring to.

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33. Comment #240496 by the great teapot on August 31, 2008 at 2:22 pm

You would have thought after she had agreed to be on his show he would have been more respectful to her. I mean how was she to know the well known satirist would take such a tone with a secularist.
Oh for Petes sake, it is comedy. I laughed many a time, even forewarned by Richards comments.
Now the dead parrot sketch and the goons that's unfunny shit.
I found his response to her suggesting Picasso was an atheist inspired artist priceless, and the war on terror being a product of divine inspiration comment made me chuckle.
If he isn't an atheist he is acutely aware of the stupidity of theology.

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34. Comment #240498 by Diacanu on August 31, 2008 at 2:23 pm

Richard Dawkins-

I think Steven Colbert can sometimes be funny. Just not on this occasion.

*Shrug* to each his own.

I only wanted to call attention to a tendency for some people to PRETEND to find something funny, almost as a DUTY, whether it is really funny or not, simply because they feel it is expected of them.

I agree that this is a genuine phenomenon, and that it probably transpires on these boards, but absent a science fiction-y portable brain scanner, how do you tell who's who?

I felt it strongly over that childish film clip called 'Beware the Believers' or some such name.

I was having computer trouble when that first came out, so I only saw it recently, and thus missed chiming in on that whole kerfuffle.

My reaction..*wavey hand*...meh.

Lots of people chimed in with words like 'hilarious', simply because it seemed to be EXPECTED of them.

Maybe they actually have bad taste?

Maybe the beat was catchy, and that gave them the giggles enough to carry them the rest of the way into thinking the whole thing was funny?

Comedy's a tricky thing.
I wish to make it my vocation, so I've studied it for the 33 years I've drawn breath on this planet.
So, I can say with some authority, that you can study it all your life, and never nail all its nuances.

It's SUPPOSED to be funny, so surely it must BE funny! I just think we should be more critical. Some things that are supposed to be funny fail in their ambition.

Depends on what you mean by fail.

Every joke doesn't have to make you bust a gut.

If I raised one corner of my mouth by a centimeter, and breathed a tiny silent laugh through my left nostril, then that's a laugh, and on a technical level, they succeeded.

I consider myself pretty elitist, I idolize George Carlin, and Bill Hicks, but y'know, I let a little Ron White & Sarah Silverman into the mix too.

Hey, as long as I never find Dat Phan or the like funny, I figure I'm in good shape.

Ah, I had this great over-arching point I was making that was gonna bring this to an awesome close.

What was it?

Well, it's gone, I'll just make a new one.

I mean, yeah, herd mentality can play into people thinking something lame is funny, but, at the same time...there's no accounting for taste.

I mean, you and I both worship Douglas Adams, but, but you'd probably hate my other tastes, and vice versa.

Hell, you probably hate all the other folks I mentioned in this.

I think Conan O' Brien is funny, I like his show, but he picked Jimmy Fallon, the most unfunny fuckin' guy on the planet as his successor.
I'm mind-blown by his lack of taste!
But, I still like Conan, y'know?

I guess, full circle, to each his own.

Okay, in closing, I'll come out and say it.
Richard, I love The God Delusion, I love your specials, and your talks, you're a great fucking guy, I'd have you over for a cookout, but, and this is in a buddy kinda way, dude, you totally came off as Margaret Dumont being razzed by Groucho in that "beware the believers", thread.

LOl, I'm sorry, that's just the way it played to an outside eye.

Lol!!

Again, dude, love ya, just saying.

Okay, that's everything.

You probably skip my dumb posts anyway.

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35. Comment #240499 by Sheva on August 31, 2008 at 2:26 pm

Actually, I thought it was brilliant. Singing the entire song was a counterpoint to the fact that Irving Berlin was, in fact, an atheist. It was a smart retort to anyone who thinks that exceptional art can only be created by believers.

However, I may be an exception. I have never thought I was above a humorous gaff.

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36. Comment #240500 by Peacebeuponme on August 31, 2008 at 2:27 pm

the great teapot

Now the dead parrot sketch and the goons that's unfunny shit.

The dead parrot sketch is akin to the film Lost in Translation. They are the emperor's new clothes.

Both were a waste of my sight and hearing.

Monty Python at least redeem themselves with many, many brilliant sketches, not to mention the films.

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37. Comment #240502 by Peacebeuponme on August 31, 2008 at 2:29 pm

Diacanu

Hey, as long as I never find Dat Phan or the like funny, I figure I'm in good shape.

As long as you don't include Andrew Dice Clay in any of your favourites lists, you are ok with me.

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38. Comment #240503 by Yadsmood on August 31, 2008 at 2:29 pm

I agree with Richard that I felt a surge of embarrassment as Colbert dragged on that awful, jingoistic song.

I dislike it that Colbert would create such an ambiguity. The crowd feels obligated to cheer, to avoid awkward quietness. But what situation does this depict to television viewers? Are we supposed to assume they're cheering the patriotism of the song, or what?

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39. Comment #240504 by Dhamma on August 31, 2008 at 2:31 pm

Some people like Britney Spears too. I can't see how one can have such bad taste, but I sure believe they genuinely mean it. If someone finds this hilarious, it's no worse than liking Britney.

I do agree some people occasionally laugh on order, especially his crowd, but I certainly believe some genuinely found this hilarious.

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40. Comment #240505 by Diacanu on August 31, 2008 at 2:31 pm

Peacebeapunme-

As long as you don't include Andrew Dice Clay in any of your favourites lists, you are ok with me.

Ugh, don't get me started.

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41. Comment #240507 by J Mac on August 31, 2008 at 2:34 pm

"film Lost in Translation"

*groan* bringing back memories of the two hours I could have spent watching grass grow.

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42. Comment #240510 by Quine on August 31, 2008 at 2:37 pm

Yes, Richard, she did fine. As you know from being there, if you go on Steve's show, you are going to be roasted. Those who play along come out better. Very few can best him at his game. Guests like Lori are stuck trying not to harm their organizations, which ties their hands to some extent. When Steve asked her what Atheists yell, I would have liked her to answer, "come back latter, and if you are good enough, maybe you can find out." However, she let him do his thing, which was the best.

His piece was full of subtle digs at the religious, besides the overt bombast parody of playing a religious idiot. The first part about taking "God" out of the Federal Government was a wack at the "Good without God is o" meme that is going around. There were several others (prayers not answered), as well as the straight open criticism of the Democratic party for pandering. Just take a deep breath; it will be fine.

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43. Comment #240511 by Peacebeuponme on August 31, 2008 at 2:38 pm

Dhamma

Some people like Britney Spears too. I can't see how one can have such bad taste,

Two words:

School.

Uniform.

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44. Comment #240512 by NMcC on August 31, 2008 at 2:39 pm

RICHARD DAWKINS:

"Tell me honestly, does anybody really find that funny?"

Yes, the people who find it funny. Why so perplexed? Some people find some things humourous while others don't. Has there been another one of those stories in the Screws of the World that usually begin: 'Scientists Find' which, this time, ended with 'Funny Gene'?, or some such nonsense? If you could isolate the exact 'thing' that is universally funny, you could bottle it and sell it so that EVERYONE could become a commedian. But then, if you did, everyone else would be laughing at the same thing and it wouldn't be funny any longer, or, at least, for long. Though an upside of this discovery would be that even Julia Sweeney would be funny - for a while.

I imagine it's more or less the same sort of response whereby this person finds that person attractive, whilst this other person doesn't.

Why did you find Colbert funny when he interviewed you? You were laughing a lot. I certainly can't remember him being any more 'witty and clever' than he is here, or any other time. Why did the editor of New Scientist make you laugh with his brilliant retort: "Science is interesting, and if you don't agree, you can fuck off!' That's hardly in the 'witty and clever' category. My 10 year old is wittier than that. I suspect that this was 'funny' only because it was such an incongruous thought that the editor of a serious magazine would speak like that. But it wasn't funny in itself. Indeed, I suspect further that, for any number of people, it was only really funny because Richard Dawkins told the story and said the word 'fuck'.

Go figure. But don't take the slide rule or stopwatch. The day we figure out 'funniness' is the day we'll stop laughing altogether.

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45. Comment #240513 by Dhamma on August 31, 2008 at 2:42 pm

J Mac:

As I was saying some people oddly enough like Britney, how can one dislike one of the better films this decade has produced? It's two hours of aesthetic orgasm.

Really, you're offending me. I'll place a fatwa on you!

Peacebeuponme: I surrender.

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46. Comment #240514 by Peacebeuponme on August 31, 2008 at 2:42 pm

NMcC

If you could isolate the exact 'thing' that is universally funny,

I suppose that depends on whether you believe in objective humour...

I can hear the theists now.

"How can you judge anything to be funny or not funny unless there is a God-given objective standard for humour?"

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47. Comment #240516 by articulett on August 31, 2008 at 2:43 pm

I adore Colbert. He's a satirist imitating right wing polemicists (primarily Bill O'Reilly); he takes what they believe, and turns them up just a notch so we can all laugh at their arrogance and ignorance.

Never underestimate the power of satire for raising consciousness, Richard. I think the character of Archie Bunker is a great example of the power of this kind of humor. I am sure Stephen does much for progressive thought. He has some amazing guests, and even if he doesn't let them speak much, he raises peoples' consciousness of them and their message.

I suspect he plants a lot more seeds of skepticism and "consciousness raising" than anyone might be aware of. People may laugh, but they also make sure not to be perceived like his character.

You don't have to find him funny to get the message that there is a group out there fighting for separation of church and state-- and much of the reasons we need such groups is because of the memes spread by the people Colbert is satirizing.

I think the jingoistic song dragging on and drowning out others is a pointed analogy as to what the O'Reilly and the religious right are doing in America--they drown out all other voices with their self-aggrandizing claims of how fabulous they are because of their "faith" as they villify those who dare to believe differently or (gasp) not at all!

Believers are all for freedom of expression-- so long as those expressions coincide with what they believe.

I love the irony.

I love the way Colbert captures the irony.

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48. Comment #240517 by Peacebeuponme on August 31, 2008 at 2:45 pm

Dhamma

It's two hours of aesthetic orgasm.

Sorry, the first two minutes consisting of a shot of Scarlett Johansen's arse might have been, but the rest was...well...arse.

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49. Comment #240518 by markg on August 31, 2008 at 2:46 pm

For those not understanding why he cuts people off and talks over them, it's a parody of certain blowhards on the F-word network (namely Bill O'Reilly and Shaun Hannity) who constantly do the same thing.

Also they probably edit the video to his advantage. The Daily Show is known for that and he was originally on that show.

edit: articulett beat me with a similar comment

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50. Comment #240519 by Diacanu on August 31, 2008 at 2:48 pm

NMcC-

Though an upside of this discovery would be that even Julia Sweeney would be funny - for a while.

Ixnay, ixnay, Richard digs Julia Sweeney.
:P

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