1. Comment #271134 by Ian Jackson on October 25, 2008 at 10:54 am

The scale of her towering stupidity is awe-inspiring. Is this woman really the best that the Republicans can come up with?

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2. Comment #271140 by Steve Zara on October 25, 2008 at 10:58 am

I thought I was listening to a parody when I heard her complain about fruit fly research. She is both incredibly, frighteningly ignorant and also, to make things worse, has frighteningly ignorant advisors.

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3. Comment #271142 by Richard Dawkins on October 25, 2008 at 10:59 am

She makes George Bush look intelligent.

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4. Comment #271154 by root2squared on October 25, 2008 at 11:10 am

In an anti-intellectual culture, where stupidity is glorified and intelligence is looked down upon as being elite, this is not surprising.

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5. Comment #271161 by hawt4dawk on October 25, 2008 at 11:19 am

deleted by poster

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6. Comment #271162 by HourglassMemory on October 25, 2008 at 11:19 am

I've heard Michael Moore say something quite true when he was recently interviewed on Larry King.
(Here's the video, it's 23 minutes long.
http://edition.cnn.com/video/ )
In this interview, around 11:30, he says:
"Obama's main oponent in this election, on November 4th, is not John Mccain. It's Ignorance. It's Obama vs Ignorance."
That is very true, even if you disagree with Moore on other issues.

It's EXTREMELY DISTURBING to see a woman like Palin getting this close to having INTERNATIONAL influence, not to mention what she could to to the standards of science education in the US.
The world is going to shake its head if americans elect this woman to be vice-president.
This election will show the intelligence and knowledge of the american public.

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7. Comment #271164 by sppach on October 25, 2008 at 11:19 am

I thought i'd get in first "Nobody makes George Bush look intelligent" seriously though what does any intelligent American imagine the world at large thinks about Palin, iv'e read a few times, one heartbeat away from the presidency ( if Mcain & Palin make it) it can't happen can it?

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8. Comment #271168 by Richard Dawkins on October 25, 2008 at 11:23 am

In an anti-intellectual culture, where stupidity is glorified and intelligence is looked down upon as being elite, this is not surprising

That's exactly right. Sarah Palin's Drosophilistinism is just one small manifestation of a larger and very worrying phenomenon, potentially fatal in a democracy: ignorant stupidity has become a proud badge of in-group solidarity. Many people are actively afraid of education, of cleverness, of fitness for office.

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9. Comment #271173 by beanson on October 25, 2008 at 11:26 am

She's hot though

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10. Comment #271176 by Roy_H on October 25, 2008 at 11:31 am

Comment #271142 by Richard Dawkins on October 25, 2008 at 10:59 am

Yes you are so right Richard. I think the stunningly accurate impersonation of her by Tina Fey on SNL is making a lot of Americans realise that too!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ETy_48lg8Co&feature=related

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11. Comment #271178 by root2squared on October 25, 2008 at 11:33 am

Comment #271168 by Richard Dawkins

That's exactly right. Sarah Palin's Drosophilistinism is just one small manifestation of a larger and very worrying phenomenon, potentially fatal in a democracy: ignorant stupidity has become a proud badge of in-group solidarity. Many people are actively afraid of education, of cleverness, of fitness for office.

Indeed. It seems to be very similar to religion in that it is intellectually lazy. Just as in religion you do not have to study anything, or do any research in order to be able to make up your "theories", so in an anti-intellectual culture, you do not have to read, or keep yourself informed about current events in order to have a position on any matter.

And just like religion, there is safety in numbers. If you are the only stupid one around, you would be embarrassed, but if you have someone else like you, then you feel a bit more secure and once you have a critical mass of such support then you can avoid the hard work of thinking and just pretend ignorance is cool. This is much easier to spread than spreading the idea of reason and thinking because it involves no effort at all.

It is simply being lazy and arrogant.

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12. Comment #271182 by hawt4dawk on October 25, 2008 at 11:39 am

The fact that Palin hasn't been (permanently) hustled off the stage of American politics by now causes me to feel a keen sense of horror and despair.

About climate change, Sarah Palin said this to Newsmax (2008):

I'm not one though who would attribute it to being man-made.

Then she said in a more recent interview, while acknowledging that it's a problem to be solved (by using more fossil fuels?), that:

But it kinda doesn't matter at this point in the debate what caused it.

Look, you crazy, ignorant, self-serving woman, it "kinda" does matter.

Our world plus one degree:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_ZQRIsn2pA

Our world plus two degrees:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-0_gDXqYeQ

Our world plus three degrees
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rdLu7wiZOE

Our world plus four degrees
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skFrR3g4BRQ

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13. Comment #271183 by GeneticNemesis on October 25, 2008 at 11:40 am

"This is the most mindless, ignorant, uninformed comment that we have seen from Governor Palin so far and there's been a lot of competition for that prize."


Priceless.

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14. Comment #271184 by Bonzai on October 25, 2008 at 11:40 am

Drosophilistinism? I am impressed. Got to look up a dictionary (I think it has nothing to do with dolphines but probably something to do with Philistines)

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15. Comment #271185 by Quetzalcoatl on October 25, 2008 at 11:41 am

Bonzai-

I'm sure you already know, but it's a combination of Drosophila (the fruit fly genus) and philistinism. Sorry for pointing out the obvious.

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16. Comment #271190 by Bonzai on October 25, 2008 at 11:45 am

Quetzal

Actuall I don't. I fucked up highschool biology because I couldn't remember all the Latin words. My teacher told me, "If you ever got a chance to go to university, do something like Physics or math, but stay away from biology and organic chemistry. You have a decent CPU but a very small hard disk"

My understanding of evolution is also conceptual. I can't get into factual details about specific speicies and so on.

Thanks, though.

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17. Comment #271193 by root2squared on October 25, 2008 at 11:46 am

Hi Hawt

I see you have dug up some links for us :)

But it doesn't matter to Palin because Jesus will be here soon with the air-conditioning.

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18. Comment #271194 by Pattern Seeker on October 25, 2008 at 11:46 am

Believe it or not, "P-Alien" is coming to my hometown tomorrow to throw red meat to the base. I plan on walking into the belly of the beast and seeing this hate-filled rhetoric first hand as well as, taking my hornet's nest beatin'-stick. Sounds like fun. You betcha'. Wish me luck.

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19. Comment #271195 by Don_Quix on October 25, 2008 at 11:47 am

The first 100 days of the Palin administration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1sE1E3z7jU

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20. Comment #271197 by hawt4dawk on October 25, 2008 at 11:49 am

Bonzai -- I couldn't find it and asked my husband. He suggested Drosophilidae (fruit fly) Philistinism.

Clever word coinage! Richard Dawkins is way hotter. ;o)

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21. Comment #271199 by mirandaceleste on October 25, 2008 at 11:50 am

I teach at one of the colleges that Ignorant McPalin of Doom attended (unfortunately), and on the day McCain chose her, all faculty received this email about how very proud we should be that an alumni was chosen for VP, etc., etc. but why in the world would we we want to admit that any of her "education" came from our institution? It's not exactly saying the best things about us/the college. (Thankfully, I was three years old when she was there and thus never had to encounter such a person. Shudder! ;) )

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22. Comment #271200 by bendigeidfran on October 25, 2008 at 11:50 am

Great opportunity for free air time for someone/everyone to point out why fruit fly research is relevant to humans. It must seem incredibly odd to a creationist - what on earth have flies got to do with us' Are we cousins or something'

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23. Comment #271202 by MRA on October 25, 2008 at 11:52 am

Well, if she abolishes the research in the US, maybe the scientists can be accommodated here in Europe or elsewhere.

If ever I suffer from low blood pressure, I will watch this video!

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24. Comment #271203 by Steve Zara on October 25, 2008 at 11:55 am

John McCain is not much better:

About Obama, he said:

“That’s nearly a million every day, every working day he’s been in Congress,” McCain said. “And when you look at some of the planetariums and other foolishness that he asked for, he shouldn’t be saying anything about Governor Palin.”

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/15/john-mccain-literally-antiscience/

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25. Comment #271206 by Algebratheist on October 25, 2008 at 11:56 am

I've never been this embarrassed to be an American.
:(

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26. Comment #271207 by Bonzai on October 25, 2008 at 11:56 am

The Republican ticket appeals to stupid people. In their version of the Bible, Jesus said the dumb shalt inherit the world.

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27. Comment #271208 by hawt4dawk on October 25, 2008 at 11:56 am

Yes, 2, but... I just started watching a documentary called "Evolution: Darwin's Dangerous Idea" and one Victorian gentleman exclaimed to another, "You'd put muskets in the hands of the rabble!" and I immediately thought of Palin at her campaign rallies. It might sound mean to say, but it really isn't acceptable to allow people who believe that climate change doesn't matter because "Jesus is coming back" to take a seat at the adults' table.

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28. Comment #271210 by the great teapot on October 25, 2008 at 11:57 am

Nice new haircut.

Go girl.

How about a rekindling of the star wars program for wolf extermination, that's got to be priority numero uno.

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29. Comment #271212 by root2squared on October 25, 2008 at 12:00 pm

Hawt

It is not mean at all, and if it is, let us be mean. There is too much damage being done by religion to consider feelings.

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30. Comment #271213 by WilliamP on October 25, 2008 at 12:00 pm

Dr. Dawkins said:

Sarah Palin's Drosophilistinism is just one small manifestation of a larger and very worrying phenomenon, potentially fatal in a democracy: ignorant stupidity has become a proud badge of in-group solidarity.

I'd love to hear Palin's response to that comment, but I don't think she could get beyond the word "Drosophilistinism."

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31. Comment #271215 by Steve Zara on October 25, 2008 at 12:02 pm

Comment #271213 by WilliamP

I don't think she could get beyond the word "Drosophilistinism."

I'm not sure I could!

I love the word, though.

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32. Comment #271216 by Bonzai on October 25, 2008 at 12:02 pm

William P

but I don't think she could get beyond the word "Drosophilistinism."

Neither did I, even though I am definitely highly intelligent and very well educated. :)

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33. Comment #271218 by beeline on October 25, 2008 at 12:03 pm

There's a more important point to realise here. Palin is just as 'smart' as she needs to be. She's a social dominator, and knows full well that millions - tens of millions - of authoritarian followers will support her in everything she says.

Intelligence doesn't come into it - in fact, she's relying on the fact that her target audience are unschooled in the ravages of rational thought.

If you want to understand why American politics is like this, just read this, by Bob Altemeyer, the Professor of Psychology at Manitoba U:

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

The studies explain so much about these people. Yes, the research shows they are very aggressive, but why are they so hostile? Yes, experiments show they are almost totally uninfluenced by reasoning and evidence, but why are they so dogmatic? Yes, studies show the Religious Right has more than its fair share of hypocrites, from top to bottom; but why are they two-faced, and how come one face never notices the other? Yes, their leaders can give the flimsiest of excuses and even outright lies about things they’ve done wrong, but why do the rank-and-file believe them? What happens when authoritarian followers find the authoritarian leaders they crave and start marching together?

It's all perfectly clear, and ranting about how stupid she is just misses the point entirely. Right-wing, power-hungry politicians like her aren't interested in 'facts', and they don't need to be either.

Seriously, read the book. Nobody alive in the Western world right now should be ignorant of these findings...

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34. Comment #271220 by AmericanGodless on October 25, 2008 at 12:04 pm

Drosophilistinism -- Marvelous word.

Reminds me of when, 40 years ago, I described to my Mother my doctoral thesis work on the DNA replication in a bacterial virus. "But why would anyone be interested in the DNA of a virus?" she asked. "Because the same mechanisms will probably be at work in the cells of a human being," I answered, "since the bacteria, the virus, and we humans all evolved together from the same original life forms." "So you believe in evolution?" "Mom, of course I do. I am a biologist, and evolution is the most powerful tool we have for understanding how living things work!" "Well. Maybe you're related to monkeys, but not me." I never asked whether she really meant what it sounded like she was saying about my Father.

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35. Comment #271222 by WilliamP on October 25, 2008 at 12:05 pm

Bonzai and Steve Zara,
I can just picture her staring at the computer screen in confusion, trying to sound it out. It would be much like the time she got stuck on the word "Doctrine" as in "Bush Doctrine."

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36. Comment #271226 by Brian English on October 25, 2008 at 12:08 pm

I'm surprised Bonzai can do maths with no hard-drive. Where do you store the partial results or sub-derivations you'll later need to finish off a challenging formula? Do have a lot of RAM?

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37. Comment #271229 by AllanW on October 25, 2008 at 12:11 pm

And the reason why this deliberate, wilful ignorance is so devastating in a democracy is universal suffrage (Don't reply. I know this just reinforces the point Richard made above but it's worth repeating).

But what to do about it in western democracies?

First, what NOT to do; restrict suffrage or move away from a democratic model. History has repeatedly demonstrated that on even short timescales these moves contain the seeds of their own destruction while the paroxysms of the changes poison too many lives. Go read about socially engineered changes from National Socialism through to the Pol Pot revolution.

Response one; pour more money into the existing education system to raise even further the general level of accomplishment for the whole population. This does not address the ignorant who are past school age; it has been shown to work only slowly over generations and not as a near-term solution; recent experience in the UK and USA demonstrates that massive funding increases do not lead to corresponding leaps forward in accomplishment levels.

Response two; aggressively target the ignorant to isolate, curtail and neuter their effects on society. Problem is there are many more of them. They are the majority. What do you do when the majority in any country insist upon voting for fellow ignoramuses who use the political power given them to enact ignorant policies that they know will enjoy popular support? The whole point of a democratic political system is that it is subject to the median level of intelligence in the society; if this median is low we get exactly what we see now in both countries.

Response three; wipe the slate clean and start again. This only happens in science fiction books; we live in the real world.

Response four; accept that this is a multi-generational problem which intimately involves every member of the human race across the whole world and requires an approach never used before.

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38. Comment #271233 by geneticreplicant on October 25, 2008 at 12:17 pm

Sarah Palin's Drosophilistinism...

Would be the Scrabble score to end all.

Keith Olbermann is the best;
"Its against this backdrop that Governor Palin 2.0 made her debut..."

Sarcasm is NOT the lowest form of wit when its in the hands of Olbermann, its an art form.

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39. Comment #271235 by Steve Zara on October 25, 2008 at 12:18 pm

Comment #271229 by AllanW

Perhaps there is an answer. This may sound a bit strange, but it could be science fiction, targeted at the young. We need a scientific equivalent of J K Rowling, who will get youngsters as interested in the wonders of science as she has got them interested in Wizards. Azimov tried this a long time ago with his "Lucky Starr" series.

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40. Comment #271236 by javb222 on October 25, 2008 at 12:19 pm

I hope that the Republicans lose miserably enough to decide they need to flush out the anti-intellectual culture in their party.

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41. Comment #271241 by Titania on October 25, 2008 at 12:25 pm

Re: 37. Comment #271229 by AllanW

AllanW, I think you are on to something. Don't stop now.

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42. Comment #271242 by Titania on October 25, 2008 at 12:26 pm

39. Comment #271235 by Steve Zara

Great idea, sci fi inspired me to read and learn about real science. I still give Lucky Starr books to youngsters.

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43. Comment #271249 by Steve Zara on October 25, 2008 at 12:32 pm

Comment #271242 by Titania

I may even be able to suggest some scientists who may be interested. Jack Cohen and Ian Stewart (both great educators in science) have written science fiction, and collaborated with Terry Pratchett in some great educational books (the "Science of Discworld" series).

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44. Comment #271250 by Quetzalcoatl on October 25, 2008 at 12:33 pm

Re AllanW and Steve Zara's comments-

Stephen Baxter's novels are not only well-written sci-fi, but also very useful for learning about complex scientific theories in an accessible manner. Novels that could break down basic scientific concepts in a similar fashion would work extremely well, I think.

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45. Comment #271253 by Steve Zara on October 25, 2008 at 12:34 pm

Comment #271250 by Quetzalcoatl

Stephen Baxter is great. We need something like that pitched at a younger audience.

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46. Comment #271255 by F_A_F on October 25, 2008 at 12:37 pm

Comment #271168 by Richard Dawkins on October 25

That's exactly right. Sarah Palin's Drosophilistinism is just one small manifestation of a larger and very worrying phenomenon, potentially fatal in a democracy: ignorant stupidity has become a proud badge of in-group solidarity. Many people are actively afraid of education, of cleverness, of fitness for office.

I think it was pointed out in "The Enemies of Reason" (can't remember exactly, I've got through a lot of books in recent weeks!) that the American public pride themselves on excellence, intelligence and achievement in almost every arena of American life, except their Government. Their Special Forces, athletes, entrepeneurs, inventors, even IT gurus....all are lauded as an example of what excellence can achieve in the American way of life....and the rest of the world admire this. But when it comes to politics, they are quite happy.....even explicitly attached to....the "down to earth" habits and ideals of their politicians. In the same country where one human being can be lauded for creating Microsoft and dominating the IT world, we are expected that a "hocky mom" loving politician should be second in command to the finger on the button.

It saddens me that for all those Americans who know exactly what it means to love your country for what it can achieve, there are armies who want an unintelligent approach to politics to rule their country.

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47. Comment #271256 by Quetzalcoatl on October 25, 2008 at 12:38 pm

Steve Zara-

For younger children, the obvious place to start would be with stories set around dinosaurs. Children would read the books for that alone (if written properly) and remember the concepts as well.

Much of what I know about "deep space" and "cutting-edge theories" I was first introduced to through the medium of sci-fi. I can't overstate how useful I think it would be.

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48. Comment #271263 by Steve Zara on October 25, 2008 at 12:43 pm

Comment #271256 by Quetzalcoatl

Dinosaurs and/or space are ideal. (the Azimov Lucky Starr series is about space travel)

Get children interested in such things at an early age, and it could innoculate them against silly religious ideas such as creationism. Once they are exited by the idea of hundreds of millions of years (and light years), they are not going to give up that excitement based on religious myth.

(I think we should mention that the excellent introducting children to dinosaurs idea came from Philip1978 at the Oxford meeting).

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49. Comment #271268 by AmericanGodless on October 25, 2008 at 12:49 pm

Steve & others commenting on a "solution" (to Drosophilistinism?) to be found perhaps in science fiction.. Article today in the Telegraph about Richard & his plans for a book for/about children:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/3255972/Harry-Potter-fails-to-cast-spell-over-Professor-Richard-Dawkins.html

It sounds like Richard wants to comment about "magic" in children's lit, and whether it has a positive or negative educational effect. Unfortunately, he admits to never having read Rowling's works, which (imho) he must read before he can write convincingly on the subject. Says he has read Pullman's Dark Materials books, which he did like (I hated them -- could barely stand to finish the last, where he engineers a totally unnecessary unhappy ending).
(Edit -- I did like Pullman's exobiology, with the biological invention or adaptation to using a wheel)

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50. Comment #271269 by Quetzalcoatl on October 25, 2008 at 12:49 pm

Steve Zara-

Indeed, due credit to Philip for starting this all off!

One thing to think about is how to get young girls involved as well. Dinosaurs and space tend to be seen as more for boys- this is something that needs to change.

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