1. Comment #286246 by Stafford Gordon on November 18, 2008 at 11:58 am

Now you tell me! Just joking.

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2. Comment #286251 by Ishruul on November 18, 2008 at 12:05 pm

The uncle of my wife say he's a doctor in acupuncture that graduated in Hawai. I asked him in wich university and where he stayed, how he paid for is degree, all those pesky questions.

My wife just gave me that creepy stare, finally she confess to me he never went to Hawai and got is degree by mail from those 'pay 5$ get 3 PhD' mail-in order.

I just love him on x-mas time, oh the laughter ;)


Edit: he ate myguts, but who care. He live from the lie he fed to the naive mind.

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3. Comment #286252 by alabasterocean on November 18, 2008 at 12:06 pm

old needle of Chinese wisdom... rubbish, all you need is to drain a few pints of blood from your arm and you be just fine. Add a prayer and you feel ten years younger - if not under 12, then you feel ten years older.

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4. Comment #286255 by Sciros on November 18, 2008 at 12:10 pm

Gee thanks for killing another placebo effect motherfuckers. I'm running out of stuff to make me feel better w/o chemically altering my body!

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5. Comment #286259 by Nails on November 18, 2008 at 12:12 pm

So, when a trained medic performs acupuncture on you and tells you it works, is ancient etc. then he is not just lying, he is being fraudulent and incompetent?

Get me the number of a lawyer, I'm off to see my doctor....

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6. Comment #286261 by scoobie on November 18, 2008 at 12:15 pm

I once received acupuncture for back pain. At the time I had no idea whether it was regarded as nonsense or not so I was open minded and hopeful that it would work. Unfortunately it didn't, and now I know why!

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7. Comment #286262 by decius on November 18, 2008 at 12:16 pm

Good choice of an article.

A lot of otherwise rational people fall for this quackery, as well as the usual crowd of new-agey, sandal-wearing, politically-correct, granola-munching, jared-diamond-worshipping twats.

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8. Comment #286263 by Border Collie on November 18, 2008 at 12:17 pm

Oh, yeah? Well, what about rhino horn, tiger bone and bear galbladder? Huh?! Huh?!

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9. Comment #286264 by Tezcatlipoca on November 18, 2008 at 12:19 pm

Poo facial anyone(qm)

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27723464/

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10. Comment #286267 by decius on November 18, 2008 at 12:21 pm

Comment #286264 by Tezcatlipoca

Excellent!

I love the omnipresent appeal to ancient wisdom, too.

Other Comments by decius

11. Comment #286268 by alabasterocean on November 18, 2008 at 12:22 pm

I do believe the best way of getting cured from pain is potion made of human albinos - it's a real riot down in some parts of Africa. One human albino is worth a million they said on the news. Dead of course- or murdered as we say in Sweden.

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12. Comment #286270 by JAMCAM87 on November 18, 2008 at 12:24 pm

Comment #286255 by Sciros on November 18, 2008 at 12:10 pm

Gee thanks for killing another placebo effect motherfuckers. I'm running out of stuff to make me feel better w/o chemically altering my body!

Ha! this is very funny considering that I just read an article in the Guardian about a study in which acupuncture didn't even work AS A PLACEBO! 43% of people using acupunture got better while 55% of people got better using a similar placebo - in a sample of 20,000 people. If that doesn't show acupuncture to be the balls it is I don't know what will.

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13. Comment #286273 by Tezcatlipoca on November 18, 2008 at 12:31 pm

Perhaps Obama will appoint Dr Hall as his surgeon general...

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14. Comment #286275 by righton on November 18, 2008 at 12:34 pm

Anyone heard of "detoxyfying foot baths"? This reminds me of those. I just got in an argument with a friend who was going to get one. She said, "the water turns colors!". HA!

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15. Comment #286276 by SASnSA on November 18, 2008 at 12:35 pm

Next you'll be telling us that leeches don't really drain poisonous toxins from the body or that trepanation (drilling a hole in your head) isn't a cure for insanity! That's just crazy! ;)

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16. Comment #286277 by Clappers on November 18, 2008 at 12:36 pm

I recommend that you all read this book

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Trick-Treatment-Alternative-Medicine-Trial/dp/0593061292

One of the authors is the first professor of alternative medicine.


They review, Chiropractic, Acupuncture, Homeopathy and review the research for each.

Every medical student should read it

Thoughts?

Other Comments by Clappers

17. Comment #286279 by Tezcatlipoca on November 18, 2008 at 12:38 pm

I had a co-worker go on about the detoxifying foot pads. That one took about 30 seconds to shoot down in flames after a quick google run. Now my gf may wish there were such a thing, especially considering the fragrance of my sandals, the only solution I've found is good hygiene and sandals that can be thrown in with the wash...

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18. Comment #286280 by Sciros on November 18, 2008 at 12:41 pm

Hehehe. I think I had acupuncture once. I didn't have anything wrong with me though so there was nothing for it to "help" my body work on anyway.

That's how I see a lot of these "alternate medicine" treatments -- they can help you help yourself, whether psychologically or by making you relax easier, etc. After all, the placebo effect IS an effect. And some people are more prone to it than others, which means they can mentally "will" their body to heal/relax/whatevs a bit better than others, whether they realize it or not. I think mental state goes a long way towards how your body acts.

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19. Comment #286281 by Tezcatlipoca on November 18, 2008 at 12:41 pm

Hey! Lay off the leeches. They make good bait since they are a lot tougher than nightcrawlers. I do believe they have had some success with them in regards to improving blood circulation in limb re-attachment or something along those lines.

Other Comments by Tezcatlipoca

20. Comment #286283 by Border Collie on November 18, 2008 at 12:42 pm

And what about leaping about while speaking in tongues with a rattlesnake in one hand and a tambourine in the other on down at the First Church of the Tax Break?! I guess, now you're gonna tell me that doesn't work either.

Other Comments by Border Collie

21. Comment #286284 by j.mills on November 18, 2008 at 12:48 pm

JAMCAM87 said:

43% of people using acupunture got better while 55% of people got better using a similar placebo - in a sample of 20,000 people. If that doesn't show acupuncture to be the balls it is I don't know what will.

Hmm. We might even draw the conclusion that NOT STICKING PINS IN PEOPLE is good for them, though obviously we'd need further research...

decius dismissed:

jared-diamond-worshipping twats

- which I feel is a bit unfair as I've only recently gotten round to reading Diamond, and now I'm a twat already. Will you guys please sort out what opinions I should have and then post them here please? Seems like I have to keep thinking all the time! Sheesh.

Read recently about a bloke who had surgery on his arm, hypnotising himself rather than having anaesthetic (though an aneasthetist stood ready). I'm just throwing that to the piranhas really.

Other Comments by j.mills

22. Comment #286287 by Steve Zara on November 18, 2008 at 12:56 pm

Comment #286262 by decius

A lot of otherwise rational people fall for this quackery, as well as the usual crowd of new-agey, sandal-wearing, politically-correct, granola-munching, jared-diamond-worshipping twats.

I bought my my first pair of sandals for decades this year, and they are actually rather cool. They aren't as cool as my husband's, with the magnetic fastenings (the sandal's fastenings, not his), but they aren't bad.

I am not sure what granola is, but I suspect I may have munched it at some point.

So, I say shame on you, you sandal-hating bigot, what with your old-fashioned prejudice against Neanderthals (who, I am sure, fashioned very respectable sandals), and with whom I share a physique.

You need to realise that not all sandal-wearers do this out of choice. For some, it is part of a culture, or pressure from partners.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

23. Comment #286288 by decius on November 18, 2008 at 12:57 pm

Comment #286284 by j.mills

LOL

Well, reading it is one thing, throwing out all known history and becoming an instant true-believer is quite another.


As for the self-hypnosis, there is no real mystery associated with those phenomena.

Read this

Other Comments by decius

24. Comment #286289 by ev-love on November 18, 2008 at 12:58 pm

Once I was so ill I wanted to die. They offered me ECT and asked for my ‘informed consent’.

At that time I think I would have given my 'informed consent'to acupuncture, leeches, even praying to Jesus….anything had to be better than where I was….

Thank goodness it was ETC they offered.

It worked!

But why?

ev-love

Other Comments by ev-love

25. Comment #286291 by decius on November 18, 2008 at 1:02 pm

Comment #286287 by Steve Zara




I am still in the process of examining the evidence for the smart Neanderthal hypothesis, but I shall never revise my taste in footwear.

I should have said muesli instead of granola. Can you believe that people actually have breakfast with that stuff? Almost as shocking as the English habit of beans for breakfast.

Other Comments by decius

26. Comment #286292 by Sciros on November 18, 2008 at 1:06 pm

43% of people using acupunture got better while 55% of people got better using a similar placebo - in a sample of 20,000 people. If that doesn't show acupuncture to be the balls it is I don't know what will.

Um, well, what it can maybe help show is HOW acupuncture *actually* works to help people get better. Mental focus on a part of your body can help tense muscles in that part relax, etc. Maybe acupuncture helps people maintain focus on their body in that sense. Like I said, the placebo effect is some effect. If something is about as effective as a placebo, then that means that the benefit it provides is mental in nature, which can in turn provide physical benefits. But mental benefits are not to be discounted as useless.

That's why there's a place for "alternative medicine" -- because some people can't just sit down and consciously get in a certain state of mind that says "ok I'm getting better and feeling more relaxed, etc." Some people can -- martial arts can help you do this, so can yoga, etc. In addition to actually strengthening your body they help you build a stronger conscious mental connection to your physical state... if that makes any sense (I mean things like being able to go into a very restful state quickly and easily, etc.).

Your mental state has a physical effect on your body, and alternative medicine seems to actually affect the former in order to indirectly affect the latter.

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27. Comment #286293 by 4horsefins on November 18, 2008 at 1:07 pm

Great article...plain English even a believer could believe.

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28. Comment #286294 by Steve Zara on November 18, 2008 at 1:11 pm

decius-

I should have said muesli instead of granola. Can you believe that people actually have breakfast with that stuff? Almost as shocking as the English habit of beans for breakfast.

My taste for museli (at least without equal volumes of sugar) has never recovered from an academic trip to Stockholm in the 80s, where "muesli" consisted of various grades of sawdust with optional goat's milk.

But baked beans are a wonderful part of any decent British breakfast, preferably on a toast of a nice seed-filled brown bread, with plenty of pepper. Providing the bread is soft enough to soak up the bean-juices and the beans are piping hot, there is nothing tastier or more nutricious.

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29. Comment #286295 by rod-the-farmer on November 18, 2008 at 1:12 pm

I tried acupuncture once, to relieve a pain extending from my shoulder down my arm to my right baby finger. No reaction, other than discomfort, and certanly no cure. Turns out I have a pinched nerve in my neck, exacerbated by years of long hours poring over a computer screen. One solution was to buy one of those knee chairs, to help straighten my spine while sitting. The other was to set the monitor on top of a plastic cube about 12 inches high. Helps reduce the hunching over. I don't have that job anymore, which I loved, but that's another story.

As for sandals, I have a pair. If I could find out who made them, I would send them back, adjusted. What adjustment ? I will run them both through a bandsaw, from front to back. The material of the soles is a rubbery stuff that picks up small bits of gravel on my 1300 foot driveway. When I walk up to the end, twice a day, to get the morning paper and the afternoon mail, each pace runs the risk of picking up momentarily a small bit of gravel, imbedded into the sole material. At the peak elevation of the flip-flop action, the sole releases the gravel bit, which as like as not lands into the space between the foot and the sandal, so that when you land on that foot next, there is now a piece of gravel in between your foot and the sandal.

Ask me how much fun this is. I typically get 30-40 pieces each time. The cure may be to use sandals with straps that don't allow the flip-flop. Can't be bothered. I have lots of other shoes I can wear. These are on the "burn" pile.

Other Comments by rod-the-farmer

30. Comment #286296 by Tezcatlipoca on November 18, 2008 at 1:12 pm

Beans-refried pintos with or without chorizo (mexican, not spaniard) in a warm flour tortilla hot off of the comal.

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31. Comment #286297 by Tezcatlipoca on November 18, 2008 at 1:14 pm

My sandal of choice. Keen's. Comfortable, machine washable and wear resistant. Sadly, not dog or chew resistant.

Other Comments by Tezcatlipoca

32. Comment #286298 by a non e-moose on November 18, 2008 at 1:15 pm

@decius

I wear sandals every day and have müsli every morning, except for slow sunday mornings, on which I have beans. Not a fan of acupuncture though.

Other Comments by a non e-moose

33. Comment #286299 by Steve Zara on November 18, 2008 at 1:15 pm

Comment #286291 by decius

but I shall never revise my taste in footwear.

I am sure I can change your mind. My husband's sandals with their clips and magnetic locks are the kind of thing Iron Man would wear to the beach.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

34. Comment #286300 by Riley on November 18, 2008 at 1:19 pm

The self-healing power of the placebo effect is real!

Now that is something really very awesome!

Other Comments by Riley

35. Comment #286301 by decius on November 18, 2008 at 1:20 pm

Comment #286294 by Steve Zara

there is nothing tastier or more nutricious.

True, it's the idea of eating them early in the morning that we mediterranean-types find appalling.

I was, of course, pulling your leg. I knew that no Brit is immune from Fabaphilia.

Other Comments by decius

36. Comment #286302 by Brian English on November 18, 2008 at 1:20 pm

I went to a Chiro once (yeah, yeah, whatever) and he also did acupuncture. A bulging disk in my back had started acting up, and he reckoned the acupuncture would help. I'd never had it done, and the idea of being made into a pin-cushion was oddly appealing. Anyway, he put a few needles into my lower back, near the bulging disk, hooked the needles up to some electrical device that passed a current along the needles and let it do it's thing for a while. It felt like a weird, vibration. The upshot was that I ended up with no improvement in the back pain and a massive bruise in my lower back. His needles must have hit a few capillaries or small vessels. The bruise further increased my discomfort. Needless to say I've not had any more acupuncture or seen that particular Chiro again. I do see a Chiro now and then, he gives a great massage of the back (not any kind of kinky massage), the adjustments don't seem to make a difference, but the massage is great.

Other Comments by Brian English

37. Comment #286303 by Titania on November 18, 2008 at 1:22 pm

decius,

Thank you for saying quackery and not using the word charlatanism!!!!

I tried acupuncture once and (I am afraid to say this because you all will make fun of women but) that night I could not stop crying. It didn't cure what ailed me so I didn't do it again.

It also happened the first time I got a massage. I could not stop the tears from falling for the entire evening.

I was not sad or depressed; I just felt like crying much like the day before I start my period. (I can't believe I am discussing this with a bunch of guys. Where have all the women gone on this site?)

I think it may be a hormonal thing with women having to do with being touched (no, not that kind of touched and no, not THAT kind either); although I have not researched it.

The best cure for these funky blue moods is to watch AbFab or Python, or to read James Thurber or Wodehouse.

What's up with the Jared Diamond bashing?

Edit for spelling

Other Comments by Titania

38. Comment #286304 by Steve Zara on November 18, 2008 at 1:22 pm

Comment #286301 by decius

I was, of course, pulling your leg. I knew that no Brit is immune from Fabaphilia.

Attraction to Robert Downey Jr (Iron man)?

That is quite understandable.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

39. Comment #286305 by Titania on November 18, 2008 at 1:24 pm

Tez,

Last weekend in Tucson, on a rez, I had fry bread with beef and green chilies for breakfast. Best meal of the trip.

Other Comments by Titania

40. Comment #286306 by Goldy on November 18, 2008 at 1:24 pm

Sandals? Neanderthals? I can see it now - sandal wearing Neanderthals out on a hunting expedition. Suddenly, they encounter Cro-Magnon. Both parties stop...they eye each other suspiciously and with a hint of...surprise? Both parties see that the others are similar, yet somehow very different. Their respective gazes slowly go down to the footwear and shock registers in the Neaderthal eyes. Both parties are wearing sandals but Cro-Magnon also wears socks. The Neadnerthals know, then, that they are doomed for anyone to commit such a faux pas without any hint of shame or irony can only be destined to rule the world....
I try to wear sandals but my mother still sees 1960s Italian fashion as the only fashion (she's from Tirol and remember all the Italians coming up for holidays) and my wife is a wannabe Italian (well, Chinese and Italians are the same - trust me) so...sandals only on special occasions. And jandals (what the rest of the world calls flip-flops. Seems in NZ it is a contraction of Japanese sandals and apparently an NZ invention...hmmm!).

Other Comments by Goldy

41. Comment #286307 by Frankus1122 on November 18, 2008 at 1:25 pm

righton

Anyone heard of "detoxyfying foot baths"' This reminds me of those. I just got in an argument with a friend who was going to get one. She said, "the water turns colors!". HA!

The water does turn colours. It is all the toxins in your body being drawn out through your feet. So it must totally work.

Ask your friend to try the bath but not put her feet in. The water will still turn colours. It totally doesn't work. It is a scam.

I have a question about alternative medicine books. I am responsible for purchasing books for a school library. I am not soley responsible. Someone else also buys books with a separate budget. She bought a huge book on alternative therapies. It was full of 'remedies' for everything from acne to cancer. The homeopathic remedies were given along with the acupuncture and herbal (they recommended marijuana for cancer)and on and on.
I objected to the book being included in our collection. But she insisted that some people might find it useful as a research tool.

I am trying to get some opinions on this. I do not want censor the freedom to read anything but I do not want people reading, and perhaps believing, outright nonsense.

I think I have just sorted this out for myself by typing my concerns but I would appreciate some feedback.

Other Comments by Frankus1122

42. Comment #286308 by Steve Zara on November 18, 2008 at 1:25 pm

The best cure for these funky blue moods is to watch AbFab or Python

All of Python is to be put free on the net:
http://zarbi.livejournal.com/180159.html

Other Comments by Steve Zara

43. Comment #286310 by decius on November 18, 2008 at 1:26 pm

Comment #286298 by a non e-moose


Are you sure that you don't possess at least a healing crystal somewhere? :)

Other Comments by decius

44. Comment #286311 by Brian English on November 18, 2008 at 1:26 pm

And jandals (what the rest of the world calls flip-flops. Seems in NZ it is a contraction of Japanese sandals and apparently an NZ invention...hmmm!).

Well, in this part of the world they're called Thongs. And what those silly Yanks call Thongs, we call G-strings.

Other Comments by Brian English

45. Comment #286312 by severalspeciesof on November 18, 2008 at 1:27 pm

What's up with the Jared Diamond bashing'

decius is channeling info from another thread (I forget which), to which I can play that game...

I'm channeling DP...

From the article:

Apparently some patients choose TCM because it is all they can afford: despite being a Communist country, China does not have universal health coverage.

*puts coat on, makes mad dash to the exit...*

Remember Skylark folks, don't hurt him... ;-)

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46. Comment #286313 by Tezcatlipoca on November 18, 2008 at 1:28 pm

Mmm Fry bread. One of my friends that I grew up with married an Ojibway Quay. "boo joo, ojibway quay" means hello, chippewa hottie in 'merican. So I am familiar with this fry bread stuff. My sister lived in Albuquerque for about 5 years or so. Green chilies are okay... I prefer the Northern Mexican/South Texas varieties of spicy condiments however...

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47. Comment #286314 by Steve Zara on November 18, 2008 at 1:28 pm

Comment #286305 by Titania

Best breakfast I ever had was as a teenager, on an ecology course as part of my "A-level" in Biology, in a field station in Wales in the late 70s. They served me up something I had never had before. Baked beans, fish fingers and fried eggs. Nothing like that to set one up for the day.

Of course, any adult in the UK knows that the best breakfast is left-over curry from the night before, or cold pizza.

Other Comments by Steve Zara

48. Comment #286315 by Titania on November 18, 2008 at 1:29 pm

42. Comment #286308 by Steve Zara

Steve,

Python for free is awesome!

Other Comments by Titania

49. Comment #286316 by decius on November 18, 2008 at 1:29 pm

Faba is the Latin for bean.

I agree that Downey is fabulous. Chaplin was a masterpiece of acting.

Other Comments by decius

50. Comment #286317 by Sciros on November 18, 2008 at 1:30 pm

A traditional Japanese breakfast can be pretty good, as well. Especially when it's not something I eat every day... or every month, or year, even. Hot white miso soup in the morning is one of my fav things, though.

Other Comments by Sciros