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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 | Reason : Backlash | print version Print | Comments

Document Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history

by The Christian Science Monitor

Thanks to John Purcell for forwarding this rubbish.

Reposted from:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1121/p09s01-coop.html

by Dinesh D'Souza

RANCHO SANTA FE, CALIF. – In recent months, a spate of atheist books have argued that religion represents, as "End of Faith" author Sam Harris puts it, "the most potent source of human conflict, past and present."

Columnist Robert Kuttner gives the familiar litany. "The Crusades slaughtered millions in the name of Jesus. The Inquisition brought the torture and murder of millions more. After Martin Luther, Christians did bloody battle with other Christians for another three centuries."

In his bestseller "The God Delusion," Richard Dawkins contends that most of the world's recent conflicts - in the Middle East, in the Balkans, in Northern Ireland, in Kashmir, and in Sri Lanka - show the vitality of religion's murderous impulse.

The problem with this critique is that it exaggerates the crimes attributed to religion, while ignoring the greater crimes of secular fanaticism. The best example of religious persecution in America is the Salem witch trials. How many people were killed in those trials? Thousands? Hundreds? Actually, fewer than 25. Yet the event still haunts the liberal imagination.

It is strange to witness the passion with which some secular figures rail against the misdeeds of the Crusaders and Inquisitors more than 500 years ago. The number sentenced to death by the Spanish Inquisition appears to be about 10,000. Some historians contend that an additional 100,000 died in jail due to malnutrition or illness.

These figures are tragic, and of course population levels were much lower at the time. But even so, they are minuscule compared with the death tolls produced by the atheist despotisms of the 20th century. In the name of creating their version of a religion-free utopia, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, and Mao Zedong produced the kind of mass slaughter that no Inquisitor could possibly match. Collectively these atheist tyrants murdered more than 100 million people.

Moreover, many of the conflicts that are counted as "religious wars" were not fought over religion. They were mainly fought over rival claims to territory and power. Can the wars between England and France be called religious wars because the English were Protestants and the French were Catholics? Hardly.

The same is true today. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not, at its core, a religious one. It arises out of a dispute over self-determination and land. Hamas and the extreme orthodox parties in Israel may advance theological claims - "God gave us this land" and so forth - but the conflict would remain essentially the same even without these religious motives. Ethnic rivalry, not religion, is the source of the tension in Northern Ireland and the Balkans.

Blindly blaming religion for conflict

Yet today's atheists insist on making religion the culprit. Consider Mr. Harris's analysis of the conflict in Sri Lanka. "While the motivations of the Tamil Tigers are not explicitly religious," he informs us, "they are Hindus who undoubtedly believe many improbable things about the nature of life and death." In other words, while the Tigers see themselves as combatants in a secular political struggle, Harris detects a religious motive because these people happen to be Hindu and surely there must be some underlying religious craziness that explains their fanaticism.

Harris can go on forever in this vein. Seeking to exonerate secularism and atheism from the horrors perpetrated in their name, he argues that Stalinism and Maoism were in reality "little more than a political religion." As for Nazism, "while the hatred of Jews in Germany expressed itself in a predominantly secular way, it was a direct inheritance from medieval Christianity." Indeed, "The holocaust marked the culmination of ... two thousand years of Christian fulminating against the Jews."

One finds the same inanities in Mr. Dawkins's work. Don't be fooled by this rhetorical legerdemain. Dawkins and Harris cannot explain why, if Nazism was directly descended from medieval Christianity, medieval Christianity did not produce a Hitler. How can a self-proclaimed atheist ideology, advanced by Hitler as a repudiation of Christianity, be a "culmination" of 2,000 years of Christianity? Dawkins and Harris are employing a transparent sleight of hand that holds Christianity responsible for the crimes committed in its name, while exonerating secularism and atheism for the greater crimes committed in their name.

Religious fanatics have done things that are impossible to defend, and some of them, mostly in the Muslim world, are still performing horrors in the name of their creed. But if religion sometimes disposes people to self-righteousness and absolutism, it also provides a moral code that condemns the slaughter of innocents. In particular, the moral teachings of Jesus provide no support for - indeed they stand as a stern rebuke to - the historical injustices perpetrated in the name of Christianity.

Atheist hubris

The crimes of atheism have generally been perpetrated through a hubristic ideology that sees man, not God, as the creator of values. Using the latest techniques of science and technology, man seeks to displace God and create a secular utopia here on earth. Of course if some people - the Jews, the landowners, the unfit, or the handicapped - have to be eliminated in order to achieve this utopia, this is a price the atheist tyrants and their apologists have shown themselves quite willing to pay. Thus they confirm the truth of Fyodor Dostoyevsky's dictum, "If God is not, everything is permitted."

Whatever the motives for atheist bloodthirstiness, the indisputable fact is that all the religions of the world put together have in 2,000 years not managed to kill as many people as have been killed in the name of atheism in the past few decades.

It's time to abandon the mindlessly repeated mantra that religious belief has been the greatest source of human conflict and violence. Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history.

• Dinesh D'Souza is the Rishwain Fellow at the Hoover Institution. His new book, "The Enemy at Home: The Cultural Left and Its Responsibility for 9/11," will be published in January.

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1. Comment #8647 by Anonymous on November 21, 2006 at 10:23 pm

Dinesh D'Souza is the Rishwain Fellow at the Hoover Institution. His new book, "The Enemy at Home: The Cultural Left and Its Responsibility for 9/11," will be published in January.


I rest my case...what drivel...and as per usual a right wing rewrite of history...yawn

2. Comment #8660 by Sean on November 21, 2006 at 11:26 pm

I am sick and tired of people claiming that Hitler was an Atheist. He wasn't. And even if he was, if it wasn't for the religious faith of the German people, he wouldn't have been able to do what he did. and unlike the author of the article, i can cite some evidence.

"Christ Stands never otherwise than erect, never otherwise than upright[…] eyes flashing in the midst of the creeping Jewish rabble[…] and the words fall like lashes of the whip: 'Your father is the devil'(John 8:44)."
-Dietrich Eckart (1868-1923

Here is a quote from Dietrich Eckart, one of the leaders behind the development of the nazi ideology. Does this sound atheistic to you?

"I not attack the Jews, but only that light-minded Judaism that is without feat of heaven, that pursues material gain and practices deceit"
-Alfred Stocker

Founded the Christian Social movement in Austria. Hitler said that if he were a German, stocker would go down as one of the greatest Germans. Notice how he is attacking the jews because he believes they are to concerned with secular issues.

"Be socialists of action! There is too little of that. Be true Christians!"
-Joseph Goebbels(23)

"The war we are fighting until victory or the bitter end is in its deepest sense a war between Christ and Marx. Christ: the principle of love. Marx: the principle of hate."
- Joseph Goebbels

These are fairly self evident.

here is the kicker:
"The folkish minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomation, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's words be desecrated,"
-Adolf Hitler, Page 562 out of Mein Kampf.

The author probably gets his ideas about Hitler from a book called Hitler's Table Talk, which has largely been discredited.

3. Comment #8672 by Aussie on November 22, 2006 at 12:23 am

"... many people as have been killed in the name of atheism ..."

1) "Kill all Americans in the name of Allah!"

2) "Kill and torture heretics in the name of Jesus Christ!"

3) "Kill people in the name of atheism!"


1. Yes we hear this often today

2. Yes. This was the battle cry for 600 years of the Inquisition

3. Huh! Has anyone heard any examples of number three?

Maybe there have been atheists who killed people but not to my knowledge "in the name of atheism".

4. Comment #8678 by goddogit on November 22, 2006 at 12:52 am

More from a paid whore (is a gentler word even needed?) of an organization which defends a definition of "Christianity" in EVERY way opposite to the teachings of Jesus Christ himself, and a definition of "democracy" that would see the permanent and brutally enforced rule of a class who have the gall to reject the implications Dawkins argues so well in TGD while advocating an economic system of the most extreme and selfish kind of "Social Darwinism," though their kind named it other things before, and likely call it something else now.

The program of this paid escort is the dullest and most servile kind of tripe: everything his masters do, will do, or have done is by definition "good," and everything bad is not merely bad but evil, and demonstrably the fault of his masters' enemies, or some instantly forgivable "accident."

Only the fact that such people are mortal allows me to feel the tiniest grain of pity for such wasted, evil-intended men. May they find the treasure of love and compassion they have buried so deeply in the cellars of their maddened, vain minds.

5. Comment #8681 by Skeptic Jim on November 22, 2006 at 1:02 am

Every time I see a fallacious christian argument or an argument based on complete and utter lies it reinforces my position as an Atheist.

6. Comment #8686 by DingoDave on November 22, 2006 at 1:44 am

Imagine the carnage those medievil religious fanatics could have wrought on their ideological enemies if they had had the benifits of modern technology.
The main reasons why the death toll was so high with the regimes of Mao and Stalin was firstly, a vastly greater population, and secondly, modern weapons and technology.

7. Comment #8701 by Anonymous on November 22, 2006 at 2:58 am

Here it is: dineshjdsouza@aol.com

8. Comment #8711 by Mike on November 22, 2006 at 4:07 am

"Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely"

If we give any one man too much power, regardless of whether religion is present, it is likely to have dire consequences.

9. Comment #8723 by Jared on November 22, 2006 at 5:09 am

Unfortunately, whether D'Souza is a paid tool of a neocon group has no impact on his arguments.

Thankfully, his arguments are vapid and poorly reasoned, so there isn't even a need to resort to any ad hominem attacks.

They ARE convenient though, aren't they? This guy and his ridiculous ideology are on their way out. The neocons came to power riding the horse of moral outrage, but after six years of control, the people have tired of their shenanigans.

The neocons made the same mistake that almost every group makes when they take power: they forgot the fact that most of the people don't CARE about their greater agenda, and forgot that the trick that got them in was mere moral outrage, a fickle friend if ever there was one.

The best part here is how D'Souza basically refutes his own argument. To whit:

"The problem with this critique is that it exaggerates the crimes attributed to religion, while ignoring the greater crimes of secular fanaticism. "

Precisely. FANATICISM is the problem, whether secular or not.

"In particular, the moral teachings of Jesus provide no support for - indeed they stand as a stern rebuke to - the historical injustices perpetrated in the name of Christianity"

That may well be, but that DID NOT stop people from DOING injustice in the name of Christ, nor did it prevent a large enough percentage of fellow-travelers from letting these acts go on. Yet-

"The crimes of atheism have generally been perpetrated through a hubristic ideology that sees man, not God, as the creator of values."

and

"Whatever the motives for atheist bloodthirstiness, the indisputable fact is that all the religions of the world put together have in 2,000 years not managed to kill as many people as have been killed in the name of atheism in the past few decades"

Says who? Where is the proof? I thought D'Souza were arguing that it was fanaticism, and not mere atheism. When did ANY of those people kill in the NAME of atheism? The example does not carry over.

A is an atheist
A kills group B
Therefore A kills B because A is an atheist

That logic makes as much sense as this:

A wears lederhosen
A kills group B
Therefore A kills B because A wears lederhosen

Picking Atheism as the one salient trait, whether it is actually applicable or not, to apply to the mass murderers of the 20th century DOES NOT mean that that common trait is the reason for their actions. And D'Souza knows it. He points to ethnic and economic conflict as the main source of trouble, yet discounts the role of ethnic or economic concerns in his slap to the face of atheists

It is exactly this sort of mischaracterization that we need to FIGHT against. I hope that the Christian Science Monitor (which is typically not a terribly biased newspaper despite its name) is flooded with letters to the editor about this piece, or at least that it publishes an editorial from the opposite side.

I've had it with people placing a lack of faith on the same grounds as religion. Had it with coddling the majority by pretending that its ONLY religion that keeps people in line, as if all we non-believers are immoral heathens and most people couldn't help themselves without "god's moral code." This is the sort of attitude that needs to be changed. We have to get more vocal before people like this force us under for good.

(Sorry for the length...I'm just utterly flabbergasted. /Rant off.)

10. Comment #8730 by Aaron on November 22, 2006 at 5:46 am

"the indisputable fact is that all the religions of the world put together have in 2,000 years not managed to kill as many people as have been killed in the name of atheism in the past few decades."


What an incredibly brash, ill-informed and preposterous statement to make. I like how the author conveniently avoids providing a single example of any crime that was committed in the "name of atheism."

11. Comment #8738 by Chris on November 22, 2006 at 6:11 am

Dawkins and Harris cannot explain why, if Nazism was directly descended from medieval Christianity, medieval Christianity did not produce a Hitler.

Actually, medieval Christianity produced several Hitlers. Fortunately things like railroads and poison gas hadn't been invented yet, but there were still quite a few nasty massacres of Jews and other religious minorities. (Atheists generally weren't massacred because there weren't enough gathered in one place; rather, they were murdered one at a time with less fanfare.)

Few of D'Souza's readers are going to be anything other than pig-ignorant about any sort of history, though - if he expects to get away with labeling Hitler an atheist (a revisionist canard on par with denying the Holocaust itself), he can be pretty sure nobody in his usual audience is going to have ever heard of, say, the Albigensian Crusade. When one of the leaders of that crusade was asked how to tell the innocent from the guilty, he replied, "Kill them all, God will recognize His own." This is obviously a viewpoint that requires religion to be even remotely coherent.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not, at its core, a religious one. It arises out of a dispute over self-determination and land.

I wonder what D'Souza thinks is the reason these people haven't been able to negotiate in half a century. Does he really believe that their intractable religious beliefs and religiously motivated bigotry against the other side have nothing to do with the persistence of the conflict? Or is he just glossing over that point because he's paid to?

The rest of the article is also a tissue of lies, but those stand out as the most outrageous.

12. Comment #8744 by Tony on November 22, 2006 at 6:39 am

I don't have Sam Harris's book "Letter to a Christian Nation" in front of me so I can't cite but I will paraphrase:

The crimes committed by suppposed atheists (Stalin, Mao---Hitler was categorically not an atheist) can be attributed to dogma and irrationality. Religious faith is one (and a primary one at that) example of the atrocities that can be perpetuated by irrationality. Our world has never been hurt by leaders becoming too rational.

The debate should really be about what is rational and what is not. Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, The Catholic Church, Islamic Fundamentalism are NOT examples of reason and rationality in the world.

13. Comment #8745 by PantsOn on November 22, 2006 at 7:02 am

quoting jared:

"A is an atheist
A kills group B
Therefore A kills B because A is an atheist"
end quote

i was just about to post something along the same lines. you could pretty much replace the word 'atheist' with anything, say, 'man over 2 ft tall', and by D'Souza logic, would have proved that all non-midgets are evil.

14. Comment #8749 by Jo on November 22, 2006 at 7:20 am

How do you justify this comment? What I see on the news are mass murders and individual murders. Individual murders seem to be racially driven or down to brawls and muggings, which I might agree goes against religious beliefs. Mass murders however, seem to arise due to opposing religious beliefs.

15. Comment #8765 by Nebularry on November 22, 2006 at 8:21 am

It seems to me that the point is not who murdered more innocents, religious fanatics or atheists, rather, that religion has done embarrassingly little to stop the carnage. On the contrary, religion has added significantly to the body count and continues to do so even as I type this!

16. Comment #8799 by Riley on November 22, 2006 at 10:25 am

I guess I'm repeated what has already been stated above, but these things are worth repeating:

1) Israel defines itself as a "Jewish" state.
2) The reason why Israel exists in Palestine is because zionist Jews believe that God promised them that land - without this belief, there would be no conflict in that region.
3) Anti-sematism is the hatred of Jews because of their Jewish faith and was in large part sustained in the 20th century because of a Christian interpretation of their Bible.
4) In Nazi Germany, Christians justified the killing of Jews and gays because of their interpretation of the Bible.
5)The Nazis were a cult full of mystical beliefs used to justify world domination of their race over all others.
6) Japan was ruled by an emperor believed to be God on earth, and this was in no small part a justification for their war in Asia.
7) Stalinism replaced a devotional faith in a God, with a devotional faith in a state. Devoted faith remains the problem in both cases.
8) The practice of slavery was justified by slave owners in the U.S. becuase the Bible supported the practice.


---

17. Comment #8809 by Brett on November 22, 2006 at 10:52 am

I am reminded of what George H. Smith (in 1976!) said:

"The basic point I wanted to make about atheism in regard to this is: atheism is important only when viewed in this larger context which I will call the "habit of reasonableness." Atheism is significant only if and when it results from this habit of reasonableness."

"This is basically why I never crusade for atheism per se outside of a wider framework. Atheism is significant, to be sure. But it's significance derives entirely from the fact that it represents the application of reason to a particular field, specifically the area of religious belief. Atheism, unless it is ingrained within this greater philosophical defense of reason, is practically useless."

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/george_smith/defending.html

18. Comment #8836 by Randy Ping on November 22, 2006 at 12:02 pm

Don't you just LOVE being the new boogeyman?
I sure do... :>



BOO!
BEWARE CHILDREN!! THE ATHEIST UNDER YOUR BED IS WAITNG TO COME KILL YOUR PUPPY!
Here, have a Talking Jesus doll.
Merry Christmas.

19. Comment #8842 by Louis Perry on November 22, 2006 at 12:24 pm

What rubbish. History records no one committing murder, much less mass murder, "in the name of atheism."

20. Comment #8844 by Duff on November 22, 2006 at 12:39 pm

Onward Christian Soldiers
marching as to war
with the cross of Jesus
going on before.
That about says it all.

21. Comment #8847 by Alan on November 22, 2006 at 12:47 pm

"The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not, at its core, a religious one. It arises out of a dispute over self-determination and land."

Wow, to characterize the Isreal / Palestine conflict as a territory dispute: and to dismiss the religious motives as a red herring shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation that borders on the criminal. If it was a simple land dispute it would have been over long ago.

This conflict continues precisely because both sides believe that god has personally told them that this is their land, and to forfeit it condemns them to an eternity in hell.

Unbelieveable.

22. Comment #8887 by John on November 22, 2006 at 5:21 pm

"To deny the influence of Christianity on Hitler and its role in World War II, means that you must ignore history and forever bar yourself from understanding the source of German anti-Semitism and how the WWII atrocities occurred."

See "Hitler's Christianity":

http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm

23. Comment #8933 by Simmons on November 22, 2006 at 9:52 pm

I wouldn't pay too much attention to this nut. Every single article of his has been marked by a seething hatred of secular values, as well as a total lack of objectivity.

In this particular article, completely ignored is the fact that there is no motivating factor involved in atheism. There is no atheist god to tell people to kill each other. No sort of absolute atheist morality to hate people over. None of the mass-murderers who happened to be atheist (so few, by the way, as to be statistical abnormality) killed in the name of atheism. They killed in the name of their own personal hatred and intolerance. When looking at it this way, D'Souza himself is a lot closer to Mao than the average atheist.

In stark contrast to people like Stalin and Mao, who were simply malicious and intolerant, many religiously motivated suicide bombers, raiders and murderers actually believed that they were doing the right thing by the will of their god. They could otherwise be good people, but so long as they believed that they were doing god's work, they would commit acts of atrocity.

On a positive note, though, few people will fail to recognize D'Souza's intellectual dishonesty and total ignorance of atheism by the time they finish reading the last quarter of the article (the part which contains more baseless and unsubstantiated lies than any other).

24. Comment #9007 by keith on November 23, 2006 at 6:58 am

Could somebody clarify for me which are the two ethnic races in Northern Ireland?

25. Comment #9028 by Jim on November 23, 2006 at 8:37 am

I don't think anyone could point to a single instance where atheists started a war against a religous group or in any way oppressed another group simply because of a disagreement over cosmology or other issues of creed, per se. This cannot be said of participants in so many of the conflicts cited above.

Incidentally, although I'm an atheist, I'm appalled at the number of ad hominem arguments on this site. How, for example, does simplifying the tax code or supporting free enterprise weaken D'Souza's case?

26. Comment #9059 by Martha on November 23, 2006 at 12:14 pm

47. Comment #8788 by Gary on November 22, 2006

"The fact is, that while someone like Hitler did use the language of Christianity, he was not driven by Christianity to do what he did, and neither were the Germans that followed him. Instead, as I believe both Dawkins and Harris point out, Nazism itself had many of the characteristics of a religion."

Why the, did Hitler use the language of Christianity?


"My hypothesis is that we should be focusing not on disproving that God exists, but rather, we should be focusing on the underlying psychology of why someone would blindly follow a set of beliefs -- whether it's a set of beliefs about God, or (for example) a set of beliefs about why the Germans need and deserve lebensraum at other people's expense."



The ONLY reason why people blindly follow a set of rules handed down by their parents (or primary guardians) is because their parents are INSANE.. and it so happens that such parents are psychologically infected, ie., severely emotionally retarded: if they can't think FOR
themselves, as adults, then they must be mentally impaired! Normal parents do not have fixed ideas about anything, other than their natural inclination to love and protect their offspring - which is something that idelogically-driven/religious parents are incapable of, as a result of their warped childhood conditioning.

27. Comment #9159 by Jenna on November 23, 2006 at 7:53 pm

so the author's whole point is that crimes committed in the name of religion are "exaggerated in number"? Even one person killed because of myths and superstitions is one too many. Once again, for those who choose to deny history, Hilter was Catholic and many of his comrades justified the Holocaust with the "Christ killer" accusation. As for a medieval Hilter, how about Queen Isabel of Spain who forced the Jews to either convert or leave everything they had ever known. Those who converted often spent a lifetime being monitored by the state to make sure they truly converted and weren't practicing their faith in secret. The only reason why the Holocaust had not happened sooner was because modern times gave the technology neccessary to do so. Religion is the only thing that can make otherwise good men perform horrible deeds against their fellow men. Not only is the lost of human life abhorrent, but don't forget how many possible scientific and medical advances have been denied to humanity due to the Church's control of scholars. Jenna

28. Comment #9162 by Jenna on November 23, 2006 at 7:59 pm

Also, as a quick note, the author claims that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has little to do with religion. Sorry, but I've been to Israel and it's certainly not the South of France. No one would fight over this strip of desert if it weren't for the religious component. Jenna

29. Comment #10846 by Anonymous on November 29, 2006 at 12:24 pm

"Religious fanatics have done things that are impossible to defend, and some of them, mostly in the Muslim world, are still performing horrors in the name of their creed"

Seems that someone is viewing their religion with blinders on.

30. Comment #10951 by No More Hornets on December 1, 2006 at 8:18 pm

It's odd that D'Souza fails to mention the current danger of Atheistic Fundamentalism, and our belief that when we blow ourselves up for no god we will not be greeted in a nonexistent heaven by any virgins and/or raisins.

31. Comment #11105 by Vadjong on December 3, 2006 at 5:52 am

Let's stop attacking religion for the number of people killed by religious people (not abstract religion), most of the killee's where themselves religious, just of a different denomination. Slaughtering each other because of xenofobia or expansionism is as old as evolution.

The wasted deaths are just a fraction of the wasted lives. Who wants to try to compute the hours in history spent praying, studying a holy book, attending rituals and ceremonies by every human being who has ever lived ?

How much more advanced could the human race have been by now if maybe only a fraction of all that effort had been devoted (sic) to the pursuit of science and understanding ?

Luckily we seem to have made a start.

32. Comment #14315 by jamsgra on December 22, 2006 at 2:26 am

Isn't God is the real force behind the biggest mass murders of history?

Didn't he murder the entire population of earth in a great flood?

Other Comments by jamsgra

33. Comment #16899 by wrekk on January 9, 2007 at 2:11 pm

"You never hear in the news, "200 killed today when Atheist rebels took heavy shelling from the Agnostic stronghold in the North." - Doug Stanhope

Just couldn't resist...

Other Comments by wrekk

34. Comment #17547 by Friggertool on January 14, 2007 at 4:47 pm

 avatarIf only we didn't waste all that sperm.

Other Comments by Friggertool

35. Comment #17736 by Shuggy on January 15, 2007 at 8:35 pm

 avatarL E Nielson wrote: ""If God is not, then all is permitted"… how about "If God is on *our* side, then all is permitted"."

In other words "If God is for us, who can be against us" Rom 8 31
and "Who can lay anything to the charge of God's elect?" Rom 8 33

Other Comments by Shuggy

36. Comment #18721 by js5535 on January 22, 2007 at 4:13 pm

 avatarWhat an awful article-clearly the author is lacking much knowledge of history and did not read the entire book (The God Delusion).

For one, Hitler once launched an "anti-Godless" movement. Throughout European history of the Christian age, Jews were also continually slaughtered.

I could come up with a number far higher for the 'number religious people have killed' than the 'number atheists have killed'. It would be a lot higher than 100 million on the religious side. That would be awful logic though.

Other Comments by js5535

37. Comment #19602 by whisper on January 28, 2007 at 8:49 pm

I too scanned the posts rather quickly, but wanted to add my little bit of bandwidth consumption. Yes, I am an atheist.

In a politically correct vein, you can see why there is so much verbal combat going on between religious folks and non-religious folks. It infuriates us when someone dismisses your "side of the story". So like many of the conflicts around the world, resolution simply won't happen until people agree to disagree.

Unlike many religions, I don't want to "convert" anyone to Atheism. I simply want people to accept me for who I am and what I do.

Making references to historical figures and their ties to religion will simply go on forever. I don't want to reference oodles of historical "fact"... but I think it is somewhat honest to say that if you weigh the killing in the name of God references against the killing in the name of Atheism, the teeter might totter onto the side of killing in the name of God.

Has anyone listened to the band "Corporate Avenger"? and in particular the song "Christian's murdered indians"? Make's for some fun thought provocation.

Peace.

Other Comments by whisper

38. Comment #20281 by MAS2007 on February 1, 2007 at 1:32 pm

 avatar"Elephants are pink."
"Nelly is an elephant."
"Therefore, Nelly is pink."
Logical?

Rational atheist response "Current scientific methods have shown elephants aren't pink."

Other Comments by MAS2007

39. Comment #36235 by ahamagi on April 30, 2007 at 3:18 pm

Simply put, atheism is no more the force behind mass murder than religion is the force behind morality.

Other Comments by ahamagi

40. Comment #38283 by yayevidence on May 7, 2007 at 12:14 pm

Just read through the following scripture- there is enough killing in the bible alone to contradict everything that the man who writes this article says. All of the killing that the bible speaks of was not only in the name of religion, but instructed by God himself.

Exodus 32: 27 Moses told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Each of you, take your swords and go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other. Kill everyone—even your brothers, friends, and neighbors." 28 The Levites obeyed Moses' command, and about 3,000 people died that day.
Hebrews 9: 22 In fact, according to the law of Moses, nearly everything was purified with blood. For without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness.
Hebrews 10: 28 For anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God's mercy to us.
Jude 1: 5 So I want to remind you, though you already know these things, that Jesus first rescued the nation of Israel from Egypt, but later he destroyed those who did not remain faithful."
Genesis 38: 24 About three months later, Judah was told, "Tamar, your daughter-in-law, has acted like a prostitute. And now, because of this, she's pregnant." "Bring her out, and let her be burned!" Judah demanded.
Exodus 12:29 And that night at midnight, the LORD struck down all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on his throne, to the firstborn son of the prisoner in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed.
Exodus 19:12 Mark off a boundary all around the mountain. Warn the people, 'Be careful! Do not go up on the mountain or even touch its boundaries. Anyone who touches the mountain will certainly be put to death. 13 No hand may touch the person or animal that crosses the boundary; instead, stone them or shoot them with arrows. They must be put to death.' However, when the ram's horn sounds a long blast, then the people may go up on the mountain.
Exodus 21:15 "Anyone who strikes father or mother must be put to death."
Exodus 22: 18 "You must not suffer a witch to live."
Exodus 22: 24 (God says)"My anger will blaze against you, and I will kill you with the sword. Then your wives will be widows and your children fatherless."
Exodus 22: 29 "You must not hold anything back when you give me offerings from your crops and your wine. You must give me your firstborn sons."
Exodus 30: 20 They must wash with water whenever they go into the Tabernacle to appear before the LORD and when they approach the altar to burn up their special gifts to the LORD—or they will die! 21 They must always wash their hands and feet, or they will die.



Now, in actually reading the bible (which many Christians have not), you will come across more violence than you would care to know.

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41. Comment #201560 by zorrokhan on June 29, 2008 at 7:56 pm

This is absolutely ridiculous! Psychopaths like Hitler and Stalin murdered people "in the name of atheism". Does he actually expect people to take him seriously? Perhaps this is his best attempt at formulating a logical argument.

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42. Comment #201570 by Goldy on June 29, 2008 at 8:15 pm

Aha, redifen religion and voila. Idiot. If even I can see there's something wrong with his argument, what chance has he got, in worting, against the heavyweights?

Other Comments by Goldy

43. Comment #201575 by Goldy on June 29, 2008 at 8:22 pm

Dawkins and Harris cannot explain why, if Nazism was directly descended from medieval Christianity, medieval Christianity did not produce a Hitler

Good sweet proverbial! Does this man not know of zeitgeist? Communication advances? Cinema? Newsreels?
I dare say the actions of the crusaders would be deplored now. The actions of popes, of kings and queens when slaughtering the losers in battle. The genocide, the burning of Jews, the insane and those of other religions. How about the burning of protestants - does that not count? Or the persecution of Catholics?
This man is a Fellow? Of what? Sesame Street? How badly educated he sounds!

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44. Comment #201578 by Goldy on June 29, 2008 at 8:23 pm

And why can't I read the comments?? Someone PM me with a solution...

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45. Comment #201584 by 8teist on June 29, 2008 at 8:43 pm

 avatar

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46. Comment #201586 by theIdiot on June 29, 2008 at 8:48 pm

,

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47. Comment #201591 by Sciros on June 29, 2008 at 9:09 pm

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His new book, "The Enemy at Home: The Cultural Left and Its Responsibility for 9/11"

Boy does he ever have issues. Wow. Just wow. This guy is a nutcase. I'm ashamed to be on the same planet as him, seriously.

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