Sunday, November 30, 2008 | Reason : Commentary | print version

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'Atheist bus' more like a bandwagon on highway to hell

by Independent.ie

Thanks to Linda Ward Selbie for the link.

Reposted from:
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/atheist-bus-more-like-a-bandwagon--on-highway-to-hell-1550742.html

We shall have some sport, I daresay, in January when the "atheist bus" arrives in Belfast with full fanfare. The "atheist bus" is already established in London: it is a public transport bus, or series of buses, carrying the advertising message: "There is probably no God. So relax and enjoy life."

The advertising campaign has cost around stg £100,000. It was all started up by -- predictably -- Professor Richard Dawkins, the neo-Darwinist scientist and atheist campaigner. He put down a deposit of some £8,000, and the rest came from public contributions -- mostly from readers of The Guardian newspaper, in which the campaign was publicised.

It says something about the affluence of Guardian readers that, in a time of recession, they can contribute £90,000 to a bus campaign dissing the notion of God.

Not that the project has been without controversy, within its own ranks. Hardline atheists wished the message to be: "There is definitely no God." But it seems that those atheists who shade somewhat towards agnosticism prevailed, with their slightly more moderate "There is probably no God ... "

As it happens, I was invited by The Guardian blog to comment on this atheist bus project, and air my views on what line Christians should take.

I said truthfully that I believed in free speech, and I also believed in the exercise of advertising as a form of communication. They could put whatever they liked on a bus. Except that I found the atheists' coda "so relax and enjoy life" ludicrously implausible.

I've never yet met an atheist with a sense of joie-de-vivre (unless, in the case of one well-known public atheist, a certain drunken cordiality) most of them seem to be miserable blighters. Read GK Chesterton's great poem 'The Ballad of the Sad Athiest'. It perfectly describes this kind of dreary and austere puritan.

Well-meaning folk might suppose that atheists are simply searchingly honest persons who, doubting the tenets of faith and committed to reason and logic, conclude that they just cannot commit to faith.

There may be some of this ilk, but militant atheists, in particular, are deeply unpleasant and caustically intolerant. Any time I have written about this subject, I have received offensive e-mails from militant atheists. While professing themselves to be campaigners for "freedom of thought", "reason", and "logic", their main tool of argument is often personal abuse; they quickly start shrieking that believers are simply "stupid", or, in the case of a female believer, "a stupid cow".

Despite such abuse, I still believe in freedom of speech and freedom of debate: although it is clear that if the militant atheists had their way, there would be no space whatsoever for Christians or other believers in the public realm. That doesn't mean, however, that I am not concerned about the effect of militant atheism. I am convinced that this injection of atheism into the culture is directly responsible for the increase in drug-abuse, in crime and, most specifically, in the five-fold increase in suicide that we have seen in these islands over the last 25 years.

A life without a spiritual sense of purpose, or the moral parameters set by the Ten Commandments -- is a living hell.

Troubled and immature young persons, given a nihilistic message that there is no meaning to life -- that we are just reasonably clever animals who evolved from a set of molluscs, quite by chance -- are easily driven down the road to despair.

Britain has been hugely shaken, over the last month, by the public tragedy of 'Baby P', and the tormented infant's young life has been taken as an all-too-accurate indictment of an aspect of British life today.

That is a life without moral parameters; in which fathers walk away from their children because the state provides all welfare; in which relationships are casual, and a variety boyfriends and serial stepfathers move in; in which mothers spend the day smoking dope, drinking vodka and cruising for sex on the internet, while their children die with broken backs -- among filth and excrement, dead mice and pet snakes.

A Hogarthian picture of an underclass without any sense of a higher moral and spiritual aspiration has emerged, to whom the atheist bus campaign is scant help, or indeed comfort.

Some involved in the atheist bus campaign believe that by "converting" Ulster to atheism, they will do away with religious divisions. A naive and shallow view, indeed, of the North's conflicts, in which religious affiliation is by no means the only factor.

When the atheist bus appears in Belfast, it is far more likely to unite Catholics and Protestants in their common Christian rejection of its message.

So God works in mysterious ways after all.

Posted: Sunday, November 30, 2008 | Permalink

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1. Comment #293875 by 8teist on November 30, 2008 at 10:29 am

YAWN..............

Other Comments by 8teist

2. Comment #293877 by notacrook on November 30, 2008 at 10:31 am

This rebuttal says it all.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/so-whos-really-intolerant-mary-1552011.html

Other Comments by notacrook

3. Comment #293881 by flounder99 on November 30, 2008 at 10:35 am

stupid cow

Other Comments by flounder99

4. Comment #293882 by JAMCAM87 on November 30, 2008 at 10:36 am

"It was all started up by -- predictably -- Professor Richard Dawkins"

It was all started up by Ariane Sherine. Yet another example of how these stupid religious apologists don't bother to check facts or read people's books before they criticise them and it just shows them up for the reactionary fools that they are. Such an unpleasant thing to read -so snide and whiney in tone.

Other Comments by JAMCAM87

5. Comment #293887 by alabasterocean on November 30, 2008 at 10:39 am

ha ha... this is just to easy.

Other Comments by alabasterocean

6. Comment #293888 by firstelder_d on November 30, 2008 at 10:39 am

The advertising campaign has cost around stg £100,000. It was all started up by -- predictably -- Professor Richard Dawkins, the neo-Darwinist scientist and atheist campaigner. He put down a deposit of some £8,000, and the rest came from public contributions -- mostly from readers of The Guardian newspaper, in which the campaign was publicised.

I wasn't that familiar with the campaign but isn't all of that false? I thought a newspaper editor, that wasn't from The Guardian, started it. We should do some forensic accounting on the churches, $10 bucks they claim it's a violation of their rights to religion.

most of them (Atheists) seem to be miserable blighters

Only things that bring me down are reading about the narrow minded nut jobs that use religion as a reason take over the world. I'm I alone on this?

athiest's are

caustically intolerant

Ya, of religious nuts, I'm tired of your bullshit, no one else bothers me

Other Comments by firstelder_d

7. Comment #293891 by JAMCAM87 on November 30, 2008 at 10:40 am

There may be some of this ilk, but militant atheists, in particular, are deeply unpleasant and caustically intolerant. Any time I have written about this subject, I have received offensive e-mails from militant atheists.

AND

A life without a spiritual sense of purpose, or the moral parameters set by the Ten Commandments -- is a living hell.

This HAS to be a joke.

Other Comments by JAMCAM87

8. Comment #293895 by Dinah on November 30, 2008 at 10:44 am

Of course, when Christians ruled most of the West in the Middle Ages and early modern period, life was so happy, wasn't it? Nobody ever died of drink, drug abuse, despair or starvation, nobody was ever tortured or burnt at the stake for believing in the wrong kind of Christianity, nobody ever beat or abused their children, everybody could speak their minds freely about whatever they pleased and women had equal rights with men. Yes, the Christian example can teach us so much about what is wrong with society now.

Other Comments by Dinah

9. Comment #293896 by GodFreeOli on November 30, 2008 at 10:44 am

I cant even begin to summon the energy to counter all the misstruths in this but suffice to say calling atheists "puritan" made me chuckle.

definition...

1. A member of a group of English Protestants who in the 16th and 17th centuries advocated strict religious discipline along with simplification of the ceremonies and creeds of the Church of England.
2. puritan One who lives in accordance with Protestant precepts, especially one who regards pleasure or luxury as sinful.

what a waste of words.

oli.x

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10. Comment #293899 by Caudimordax on November 30, 2008 at 10:48 am

I've never yet met an atheist with a sense of joie-de-vivre (unless, in the case of one well-known public atheist, a certain drunken cordiality) most of them seem to be miserable blighters. Read GK Chesterton's great poem 'The Ballad of the Sad Athiest'. It perfectly describes this kind of dreary and austere puritan.

Who the heck is he (?) talking about? Edit: I mean generally - lot's of jolly people on this site, after all.

that we are just reasonably clever animals who evolved from a set of molluscs, quite by chance -- are easily driven down the road to despair.

Evolved from molluscs (sp?) *facepalm*

filth and excrement, dead mice and pet snakes.

???? Am I missing something?

Other Comments by Caudimordax

11. Comment #293906 by Osmano on November 30, 2008 at 10:53 am

A rather confusing piece. She hasn't presented any evidence for her claims.

Other Comments by Osmano

12. Comment #293907 by Caudimordax on November 30, 2008 at 10:53 am

2. Comment #293877 by notacrook

Yes that was a good rebuttal.

Other Comments by Caudimordax

13. Comment #293916 by penseur on November 30, 2008 at 10:57 am

Talk about exhaustive research and uncompromising adherance to the facts. This article has more straw men than a Nebraska corn field.

Other Comments by penseur

14. Comment #293923 by Elles on November 30, 2008 at 11:03 am

I am now completely and unshakably convinced by my faith in humanity that this was all a satirical piece done by some moderately funny comedian. I invoke Poe's Law.

Other Comments by Elles

15. Comment #293926 by Roger Stanyard on November 30, 2008 at 11:08 am

It's a bit rich coming from a paddy given that the Republic of Ireland for years suffered from the shere joylessness of its rural life, surpressed by the omnipotent priest screaming guilty from the minute one was born.

The same Oh So Christian Republic that for decades after independence was unable to provide its citizens with jobs so that they were forced leave the country in droves.

The same country that after independence ethnicly cleansed a third of its protestant population.

The same Oh So Christian country that put education in the hands of pedophiles, bullies and thugs on the form of the Christian Brothers and the Sisters of (no) Mercy.

The same Oh So Holy country that ostracised Trinity College Dublin for not being Catholic.

The same Oh So Holy country that banned contraception and kept women in misery.

The same Oh So Holy country that left huge numbers of its citizens locked into joyless and loveless marriages.

And then blamed everything on the unholy Brits.

I thought Ireland had moved on big time but it seems that the sanctimonious preaching is still there.

Other Comments by Roger Stanyard

16. Comment #293928 by Andy_Allen on November 30, 2008 at 11:10 am

Is this "independent.ie" a real newspaper? That article reads like something out of amateur hour from the parish rag. I wasn't motivated to examine the article further, but has anyone found even one substantiated grain of truth in it?

On the other hand, locally we have this from the Los Angeles Times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fame30-2008nov30,0,6755798.story

The pastor of the First African Methodist Episcopal Church, one of the oldest and most prominent black congregations in Los Angeles, used church credit cards to pay for at least $122,000 in personal expenses over a three-year period, including jewelry, family vacations, clothing and auto supplies, according to documents and church sources.

The spending came to light during the course of an independent audit and Internal Revenue Service investigation into the financial affairs of the pastor, John J. Hunter; his wife, Denise Brown Hunter; and the church, according to people connected with the church, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they feared retaliation. (my bold)

Sure are nice, upstanding and moral types these Christians.

Andy

Other Comments by Andy_Allen

17. Comment #293930 by Szkeptik on November 30, 2008 at 11:12 am

Well.. this is stupid. But what could we expect from an intellectually inferior faith-head?

Other Comments by Szkeptik

18. Comment #293932 by Roger Stanyard on November 30, 2008 at 11:16 am

It's suggested that this op-ed piece was written by Mary Kenny. If so, that's the same Mary Kenny who was shouting from the rooftops a decade or so back how great it was that Ireland was saying good-bye to religion.

Um, there's nothing like consistency amongst hacks.

Other Comments by Roger Stanyard

19. Comment #293933 by black wolf on November 30, 2008 at 11:21 am

The falsehoods and idiocy in this commentary kept mounting at an amazing rate while I was reading it. I kept getting angrier. And then suddenly it all fell off me, when I realized the author had moved straight into loony troll moron territory, only to be laughed at and perhaps pitied a bit. Nothing to get irate about really (but no harm in voicing a quick 'fucktard' in her general direction either).

Isn't it revealing how she feels the need to rant and lie and cry abuse over an utterly harmless ad campaign - calling the opposition miserabe blighters no less - and thereby revealing beyond the shadow of a doubt how miserable and fearful she is herself?
And she is damn right to be afraid. Not only is the Emperor revealed as a nudist by conviction, it is plain to see for everybody save those who clench their eyes shut, that his argumentative arsenal is just as void of depth as his wardrobe.

Other Comments by black wolf

20. Comment #293935 by Ex~ on November 30, 2008 at 11:22 am

A response I wrote:

In Mary Kenny's deeply distasteful and horrendously second-rate screed shamelessly printed by the Independent, a publication I would hope screens the quality of its contributors better next time, she spends the whole while telling us all how dreadfully evil atheists are, how they are responsible for all the ills of society, and how they are, excluding the small minority Kenny gives the passing admittance "might" exist, on the whole child abusers, drug addicts, neglectful parents, and, she claims, in a stroke of the greatest irony, "caustically intolerant."

I have never read such a disgustingly intolerant screed since I tried sitting down to "Mein Kampf" a year ago and gave up a few hours later.

It is amusing one brings the subject of Baby P into things, when one may read in the Good Book Mary professes to believe in, the untold slaughter of every firstborn child in Egypt, the stories chockfull of human sacrifice to Jehovah, including the ritual sacrifice of one's only daughter, the incestual abuses commanded by God, the burning alive of woman and child in the womb, and other such untold horrors that any moral being would gasp at and tear apart the book they were written in with the utmost expedience.

Baby P certainly died from the neglect and abuse of his parents (and I'd lay a tener on them being Christians), but if the God of Mary's bible had his way he'd have been offered as a blood sacrifice long before.

Indeed, to have any morality whatsoever, all of us, Christian or not, must reject the thoroughly disgusting abomination that is the Bible, a relic of barbaric ages past that, thanks to secularization, scientific progress, and rational enlightenment, has given way to a rational morality that is nothing more than a progressive removal from the God idea at each step. Christians choose to merely ignore their own Bibles, the only difference with Atheists is that we're honest about it.

Other Comments by Ex~

21. Comment #293937 by Caudimordax on November 30, 2008 at 11:22 am

Roger - right you are.

She was a founder member of the Irish feminist movement, though she has since rejected her radical past[1].(Wikipedia)

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22. Comment #293938 by ukantic on November 30, 2008 at 11:25 am

An interesting investigation into the rising suicide rates in NI can be found at:
http://www.nehb.ie/nehb/publications/suicide.htm

This is a long report & I have only quickly skimmed through it. There seems to be many factors involved in the increase; unemployment, broken relationships, alcoholism, mental illness, etc. However, I couldn't find the reference to atheism – perhaps Linda Ward Selbie could point it out for everyone.

There is also a graph comparing suicide rates in NI with the rest of Europe. Northern Ireland's rates have increased at the same time as Europe's have slightly decreased. Are we all to assume that Europe has become more religious over the last 20 years?

Finally, You have to be pretty stupid to blame an entire country for the actions of one degenerate family.

Other Comments by ukantic

23. Comment #293942 by Sarmatae1 on November 30, 2008 at 11:30 am

I really like The Onion. You can't beat it for satire humor that was a really good article.

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24. Comment #293943 by mordacious1 on November 30, 2008 at 11:34 am

"That is a life without moral parameters; in which fathers walk away from their children because the state provides all welfare; in which relationships are casual, and a variety boyfriends and serial stepfathers move in; in which mothers spend the day smoking dope, drinking vodka and cruising for sex on the internet, while their children die with broken backs -- among filth and excrement, dead mice and pet snakes."

Lest we forget about that pillar of christianity, Andrea Yates:

"Yates drowned 6-month-old Mary, 2-year-old Luke, 3-year-old Paul, 5-year-old John and 7-year-old Noah in their Houston-area home in June 2001. Her attorneys said she suffered from severe postpartum psychosis and, in a delusional state, believed that Satan was inside her and that killing the youngsters would save them from hell."

The advantage that xians have is that they can always plea insanity, because it's true.

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25. Comment #293945 by BillySands on November 30, 2008 at 11:37 am

Bag of Shite!

Other Comments by BillySands

26. Comment #293948 by micfur on November 30, 2008 at 11:56 am

15. Comment #293926 by Roger Stanyard

Roger, I think you are slightly guilty of some rash generalisations of a country, in a not dissimilar fashion to Mary Kenny and her atheist rant.

Other Comments by micfur

27. Comment #293949 by Cartomancer on November 30, 2008 at 11:56 am

You know, this piece is more than just bad journalism, though it is that in spades, it's actually outrageously offensive.

All it does, apart from mangle and misrepresent pretty much every fact it attempts to present, is to insinuate that atheism is somehow linked with the vilest of child abusers. That's pretty much it - take an example of appalling child cruelty from recent media coverage, then pretend it has anything at all to do with atheism. No arguments, no attempt at pointing out causal links, not even an attempt to find out what the religious beliefs or lack thereof were in this particular nasty case study.

I am shocked at the sheer nastiness of it all. Whoever wrote this piece should be thoroughly ashamed of themself.

And, as for atheists being a dour, caustic and miserable bunch, I know I fall into that category most of the time but how on earth can this person possibly say that? Do they not know any atheists? Have they never been to Sweden or Norway or Japan where the vast majority of the population are atheists and which, coincidentally, have some of the lowest crime rates, highest standards of living and best social welfare systems (well, not Japan) in the world?

As for the decalogue, how on earth does that constitute a viable moral system? The first two or three commandments are basically nonsense about only having one god and not making idols or blaspheming, and have no moral content at all because they refer to non-existent beings and non-existent crimes. Then we have keeping the Sabbath, which is also nonsense lacking in any kind of moral content. Then we get on to the actual vaguely moral stuff - honour your parents, don't murder people, don't commit adultery, don't steal, don't bear false witness, don't covet other people's property or spouses. Of these, killing and stealing does actually cause harm, so those are ok. Covetousness is not harmful in itself, nor is adultery, though both can cause social problems and harm from their secondary effects, and so should probably be encouraged against. Bearing false witness is a legal, not a moral, consideration. It only becomes moral if the false witness leads to harm. In fact, if the only way to prevent harm is to lie to others, I think one is morally bound to bear false witness.

Honouring one's parents is the interesting one though, in the context of this article's nauseating attempt to bring in modern child abuse cases. One's parents deserve honour and respect (though quite what "honour" means in such a context is difficult to fathom) inasmuch as they return the sentiment. Respecting bad parents is not a morally upright thing to do. We all know of the injunction in the bible that disobedient children should be stoned to death, but look here at what the very decalogue this author recommends as the basis for all morality has to say on issues of children, parents and suffering:

I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me, but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments. Exodus 20:5-6

Punishing children for the iniquity of their parents eh? Such a glorious lens through which to view this particularly horrible abuse case isn't it?

Other Comments by Cartomancer

28. Comment #293950 by Roger Stanyard on November 30, 2008 at 12:01 pm

micfur - you're right, I overdid it. Just a bit angry with the author.

Other Comments by Roger Stanyard

29. Comment #293951 by Mr DArcy on November 30, 2008 at 12:01 pm

Not guilty, yer Honour.

but militant atheists, in particular, are deeply unpleasant and caustically intolerant.

I've never yet met an atheist with a sense of joie-de-vivre (unless, in the case of one well-known public atheist, a certain drunken cordiality)

Guilty yer honour.

miserable blighters.

Not guilty, yer honour.

militant atheists, in particular, are deeply unpleasant and caustically intolerant.

Untrue, yer honour.

no space whatsoever for Christians or other believers in the public realm.

Just a wet dream yer honour.

'Baby P'

Where the hell was God, yer honour?

So God works in mysterious ways after all.

Couldn't agree more yer honour.

She offered her honour,
He honoured her offer,
He was on 'er and off 'er all night long.

Other Comments by Mr DArcy

30. Comment #293954 by davem on November 30, 2008 at 12:15 pm

The most ironic bit is where she accuses atheists of being 'puritans'. WTF????

Other Comments by davem

31. Comment #293959 by Eshto on November 30, 2008 at 12:23 pm

I've never yet met an atheist with a sense of joie-de-vivre (unless, in the case of one well-known public atheist, a certain drunken cordiality) most of them seem to be miserable blighters.

And I've never met a Christian who wasn't an arrogant, holier-than-thou, judgmental, childish, ignorant, homophobic twit with a stick up their ass, rocks in their head, and a backward sense of "morality" that contradicts modern notions of individual liberty and free inquiry.

EDIT: That's not true, I have met decent Christians. But I read this first thing today, before I had my coffee.

Other Comments by Eshto

32. Comment #293961 by GBile on November 30, 2008 at 12:28 pm

Mary Kenny,

This sentence made me laugh.

For the first time in my life.

Miserably yours,

G Blighter

Other Comments by GBile

33. Comment #293967 by Baron Scarpia on November 30, 2008 at 12:36 pm

I suppose the most tiresome thing about such sludge is that yet again it's full of assertions that are so easy to refute. Once more we have the cry 'No morality without God!' as if a God devastating Egypt with plagues and drowning almost the entire population of Earth had a monopoly on ethics.

And what on Earth is this weird view that atheists have no fun? Mary apparently knows more about my life than I do. I'm thinking of suing her for invasion of privacy.

Other Comments by Baron Scarpia

34. Comment #293968 by JAMCAM87 on November 30, 2008 at 12:37 pm

Cartomancer

"As for the decalogue, how on earth does that constitute a viable moral system'"

She probably doesn't even know the ten commandments.

Comment #293951 by Mr. Darcy

Made me laugh. Ha!

Other Comments by JAMCAM87

35. Comment #293970 by eoin on November 30, 2008 at 12:38 pm

Roger,

Your comment above is beyond belief. You show nothing but contempt for the Irish population and ironically have the nerve to criticise the rash generalisations made by the author. Clearly the piece is silly but I think you may need to seriously question your cliche, naive and racist view of Ireland. Some of us do actually have independent thought processes.

Perhaps I´ll look for you on that list of BNP party members doing the rounds. Reread your opening sentence and have a good think before you type the next time. All the best.

Eoin.

Other Comments by eoin

36. Comment #293972 by Roger Stanyard on November 30, 2008 at 12:44 pm

eoin - yep, I overdid it. Apologies.

Other Comments by Roger Stanyard

37. Comment #293974 by mithraman on November 30, 2008 at 12:48 pm

Living easy, living free
Season ticket on a one-way ride
Asking nothing, leave me be
Taking everything in my stride
Don't need reason, don't need rhyme
Ain't nothing I would rather do
Going down, party time
My friends are gonna be there too
I'm on the highway to hell
highway to hell ...

Other Comments by mithraman

38. Comment #293976 by eoin on November 30, 2008 at 12:48 pm

Well fair dues for saying that. It´s not everyone that´s that gracious. I´ll call off that internet search then :)

Other Comments by eoin

39. Comment #293977 by Mr DArcy on November 30, 2008 at 12:54 pm

Baron S. says:

Mary apparently knows more about my life than I do. I'm thinking of suing her for invasion of privacy.

Bloody hell mate! You're suing Mary for invasion of privacy?

Who's your witness? The holy ghost?

Other Comments by Mr DArcy

40. Comment #293979 by Roger Stanyard on November 30, 2008 at 12:55 pm

OK, I'll be a bit more measured this time.

Northern Ireland has a serious problem of religiousity at present. It's the rise in belief of creationism amongst more evangelical protestants in the province. It now appears that maybe half the protestant churches or more in the province have now accepted creationism.

Much of this has been due to the efforts of Answers in Genesis and other creationists who have specifically targeted the province.

As we have detailed on the BCSE web site, there is a group within the DUP that has been pushing to get creationism taught in schools and exhibited at every museum in the province.

Moreover, it appears that the province has been used as a recruiting ground for creationist teachers ending up in the Vardy schools.

I've even come across lobbying to give creationist exam answers equal credit in the province's universities.

My personal view is that creationism is the ultimate in religious stupidity.

Thus the province does have a serious problem with religion.

I wonder whether Mary Kenny has her head screwed on about what is happening in the island of Ireland.

Other Comments by Roger Stanyard

41. Comment #293980 by Ned Flanders on November 30, 2008 at 12:57 pm

So blow it up then. Isn't that the religious solution to everything?

Other Comments by Ned Flanders

42. Comment #293983 by Roger Stanyard on November 30, 2008 at 1:01 pm

eoin - still worth looking at the BNP list though - we've been trying to find any hardline fundies/creationists on it.

Other Comments by Roger Stanyard

43. Comment #293985 by Baron Scarpia on November 30, 2008 at 1:03 pm

Comment #293977 by Mr DArcy

Er... not the Virgin Mary. Mary Kenny, the author of this ill-tempered piece.

Other Comments by Baron Scarpia

44. Comment #293989 by Roger Stanyard on November 30, 2008 at 1:07 pm

"unless, in the case of one well-known public atheist, a certain drunken cordiality"

Presumably a snide comment about Christopher Hitchens.

Other Comments by Roger Stanyard

45. Comment #293991 by mmurray on November 30, 2008 at 1:12 pm

Yes you are right. Someone from the Guardian started it. Richard offered to match the first 5,500 pounds and the total is now (pounds) 125,000. Something like 8,500 people donated so an average of 15 pounds each. Not poor people but not particularly rich. Oh well who needs facts to be a journalist

Details here

http://www.atheistcampaign.org/

and here

http://www.justgiving.com/atheistbus

Michael

Other Comments by mmurray

46. Comment #293993 by Luthien on November 30, 2008 at 1:19 pm

...there is a group within the DUP that has been pushing to get creationism taught in schools and exhibited at every museum in the province.

Hey Roger, yes it's a terrible problem (I have just left Northern Ireland for good, I'm afraid I've had enough). Someone from the DUP made the mistake of knocking on my door while canvasing for the last local elections, and I pretty much just lit into him over the religion issue. He looked really shocked, and had the audacity to deny that the DUP were pushing a religious agenda. I finished off by telling him how embarrassing it was for Northern Ireland to have DUP members singing hymns on TV after being elected, and then shut the door in his face. When I told people in work what I had done they were speculating on how long it would be before someone petrol bombed my house, but nothing like that ever happened. ;-)

There are a lot of people who are taken in by the creationism thing, but there are also a lot of people who are increasingly angry at these people. The DUP didn't get elected in my area, the surprise result was the election of Anna Lo (Alliance).

Other Comments by Luthien

47. Comment #294000 by Mr DArcy on November 30, 2008 at 1:29 pm

Baron S:

Er... not the Virgin Mary. Mary Kenny, the author of this ill-tempered piece.

You might stand a better chance in court if the holy ghost is a witness on your behalf.... what with Christmas just coming up and all that?

You might sue me for being bad tempered, but you'd get bugger all damages!

Other Comments by Mr DArcy

48. Comment #294002 by petermun on November 30, 2008 at 1:32 pm

My vivre has never been more joied. I am a blissfully happy republican, socialist atheist - and a Guardian reader to boot.

Other Comments by petermun

49. Comment #294004 by Lil_Xunzian on November 30, 2008 at 1:33 pm

Wow. I didn't realize that people only take care of their children because of Jesus. I mean, without Jesus, we'd let our kids die, right? I guess all them other animals that take great pains to protect and nurture their offspring must have Jesus in their lives. Wow, man...Jesus.

Other Comments by Lil_Xunzian

50. Comment #294005 by DoctorE on November 30, 2008 at 1:37 pm