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Secularists' vital war on religion
by AC Grayling
Thanks to Linda Ward Selbie for the link.
Reposted from:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/dec/20/wasilla-palin-church-fire-secularism
As long as religion is a danger to the lives and liberties of others, secular liberals will never relent in their protests
It is surely a failing not to have heard of Gerald Warner before, but courtesy of the recent fire at the Wasilla Bible Church attended by Sarah Palin in far-off Alaska (Palin was not in the church at the time), this Daily Telegraph writer has leapt on to our radar in full cry, as follows:
Great stuff. Gerald Warner, as a Catholic (and apparently something of a "jihadist" himself), is a member of an institution whose history is littered with crusades, burnings at the stake, persecution of gays, and the perpetuation of the biggest pack of lies that the world has seen - so would seem to be in a poor position to try working the moral equivalence angle. Gays and liberal secularists as jihadists!
This is the funny bit. In the last few years secular liberals have been uncompromising in what they say about religion, and the targets of their criticism have squealed and complained as loudly as if they felt real flames licking round their feet. The churches answered criticism in the past with murder; if they still had the upper hand would they now restrict themselves to their critics' choice of weapon – words? The foam-flecked variety issuing from Warner suggests not.
Let us look at some comparisons. In Afghanistan the Taliban stop girls going to school, beat up women who show a millimeter of skin, ban music, kill gays, and in general force their choice of life and belief on everyone, thus illustrating the less charming aspects of enforced observance of religious orthodoxy under which most of humanity has suffered for most of history. By comparison, secular liberals of Europe and North America say that they think religion is a load of nonsense and that religious folk should keep their fantasies to themselves. Some comparison, eh? Some jihad! Its effectiveness, though, is a sign of insecurity among the faithful. Mark Twain defined faith as "believing what you know ain't so", and the level of insecurity among the faithful when criticised suggests that almost all of them really agree.
Gerald Warner and his kind strain hard to whip up a belief in a moral equivalence between the inhumanity, intolerance, coercion and violence of their own religions' histories and the criticism and disdain with which secularists view them now. I suspect that Warner really hopes that balaclava-wearing, Kalashnikov-toting secular liberals flew some paraffin-laden model aeroplanes into the Wasilla Bible Church. If so it would make the excesses of religion's crushing imposition on the human spirit all ok, because it would show that liberal secularism has become the very thging it criticises.
I wonder whether, in the dialogue of the deaf that this quarrel has become, a few reminders might be in order. Secularism is the view that religious outlooks, though perfectly entitled to exist and have their say, are not entitled to a bigger slice of the public pie than any other self-constituted, self-appointed, self-selected and self-serving civil society organisation. Yet the religious persistently ask for special treatment: public money for their "faith-based" schools, seats in the House of Lords, exemption from laws inconvenient to their prejudices, and so endlessly on. They even have the cheek to ask for "respect" for their silly and antiquated beliefs; and in Geneva at the Human Rights Council the Islamic countries are trying to subvert the Universal Declaration of Human Rights because it is inconvenient to their medieval, sexist, intolerant outlook.
Secularists in the west say to the apologists of the religions: your beliefs are your choice, so take your place in the queue. They also say: you've had it your own way for a very long time - and committed a lot of crimes in the process - and you still fancy yourself entitled, but you aren't. You don't smell too good at times, so don't try to tell me what I can read, see on TV, do in my private time, think or say. In fact, keep your sticky fingers off my life. Believe what you like but don't expect me to admire or excuse you because of it: rather the contrary, given the fairy-stories in question. And when you are a danger to the lives and liberties of others, which alas is too frequently the wont of your ilk, we will speak out against you as loudly, persistently, and uncompromisingly as we can.
Reposted from:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/dec/20/wasilla-palin-church-fire-secularism
As long as religion is a danger to the lives and liberties of others, secular liberals will never relent in their protests
It is surely a failing not to have heard of Gerald Warner before, but courtesy of the recent fire at the Wasilla Bible Church attended by Sarah Palin in far-off Alaska (Palin was not in the church at the time), this Daily Telegraph writer has leapt on to our radar in full cry, as follows:
If – and it is still a big if – arson was committed by militant homosexuals or liberals simply driven by hatred of Palin, then that is a phenomenon that should greatly concern the American public. Anti-Christian jihadism fuelled by secularism is as unacceptable as that driven by militant Islam. If Wasilla Church was burned by arsonists making an ideological point, that is terrorism.
If what is suspected turns out to be true, the burning of Wasilla Bible Church is a metaphor for the onslaught against Christianity that aggressive secularism has mounted in Europe and which, under the influence of the morally degenerate Democrat party, is now invading the United States. This may be a significant warning to complacent Christians.
Great stuff. Gerald Warner, as a Catholic (and apparently something of a "jihadist" himself), is a member of an institution whose history is littered with crusades, burnings at the stake, persecution of gays, and the perpetuation of the biggest pack of lies that the world has seen - so would seem to be in a poor position to try working the moral equivalence angle. Gays and liberal secularists as jihadists!
This is the funny bit. In the last few years secular liberals have been uncompromising in what they say about religion, and the targets of their criticism have squealed and complained as loudly as if they felt real flames licking round their feet. The churches answered criticism in the past with murder; if they still had the upper hand would they now restrict themselves to their critics' choice of weapon – words? The foam-flecked variety issuing from Warner suggests not.
Let us look at some comparisons. In Afghanistan the Taliban stop girls going to school, beat up women who show a millimeter of skin, ban music, kill gays, and in general force their choice of life and belief on everyone, thus illustrating the less charming aspects of enforced observance of religious orthodoxy under which most of humanity has suffered for most of history. By comparison, secular liberals of Europe and North America say that they think religion is a load of nonsense and that religious folk should keep their fantasies to themselves. Some comparison, eh? Some jihad! Its effectiveness, though, is a sign of insecurity among the faithful. Mark Twain defined faith as "believing what you know ain't so", and the level of insecurity among the faithful when criticised suggests that almost all of them really agree.
Gerald Warner and his kind strain hard to whip up a belief in a moral equivalence between the inhumanity, intolerance, coercion and violence of their own religions' histories and the criticism and disdain with which secularists view them now. I suspect that Warner really hopes that balaclava-wearing, Kalashnikov-toting secular liberals flew some paraffin-laden model aeroplanes into the Wasilla Bible Church. If so it would make the excesses of religion's crushing imposition on the human spirit all ok, because it would show that liberal secularism has become the very thging it criticises.
I wonder whether, in the dialogue of the deaf that this quarrel has become, a few reminders might be in order. Secularism is the view that religious outlooks, though perfectly entitled to exist and have their say, are not entitled to a bigger slice of the public pie than any other self-constituted, self-appointed, self-selected and self-serving civil society organisation. Yet the religious persistently ask for special treatment: public money for their "faith-based" schools, seats in the House of Lords, exemption from laws inconvenient to their prejudices, and so endlessly on. They even have the cheek to ask for "respect" for their silly and antiquated beliefs; and in Geneva at the Human Rights Council the Islamic countries are trying to subvert the Universal Declaration of Human Rights because it is inconvenient to their medieval, sexist, intolerant outlook.
Secularists in the west say to the apologists of the religions: your beliefs are your choice, so take your place in the queue. They also say: you've had it your own way for a very long time - and committed a lot of crimes in the process - and you still fancy yourself entitled, but you aren't. You don't smell too good at times, so don't try to tell me what I can read, see on TV, do in my private time, think or say. In fact, keep your sticky fingers off my life. Believe what you like but don't expect me to admire or excuse you because of it: rather the contrary, given the fairy-stories in question. And when you are a danger to the lives and liberties of others, which alas is too frequently the wont of your ilk, we will speak out against you as loudly, persistently, and uncompromisingly as we can.
Comments 1 - 50 of 80 |
Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers2. Comment #304277 by rod-the-farmer on December 20, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Wait....wait....I think I see, coming over the horizon, a repeat of that infamous trial in Nazi Germany where a Jew was accused of setting fire to something. My memory is not as good as it once was. I shall go look it up. I am given no odds on the Palin church arsonist being found, and admitting it was his
militant homosexuality
which made him do it. Sure, that's the ticket. When he stopped shooting game from a helicopter, he set fire to the church. Ohhhh Kay.
Other Comments by rod-the-farmer
3. Comment #304286 by Fizzle on December 20, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Oh, this deserves applause. Other Comments by Fizzle
4. Comment #304287 by prolibertas on December 20, 2008 at 4:34 pm
'The churches answered criticism in the past with murder; if they still had the upper hand would they now restrict themselves to their critics' choice of weapon – words?'If they ever had had reason on their side, then they would never have had to resort to physical violence. So a religion resorting to violence is a clear sign that that religion is bullshit.
Other Comments by prolibertas
6. Comment #304303 by Apeseed on December 20, 2008 at 5:07 pm
While reading this I had a mental image of Kenneth Williams going "Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it in for me!" Other Comments by Apeseed
7. Comment #304306 by maxamillion on December 20, 2008 at 5:11 pm
goddidit! He hates Sarah too. Other Comments by maxamillion
8. Comment #304331 by Tzsak on December 20, 2008 at 6:13 pm
"Wait....wait....I think I see, coming over the horizon, a repeat of that infamous trial in Nazi Germany where a Jew was accused of setting fire to something. My memory is not as good as it once was. I shall go look it up. I am given no odds on the Palin church arsonist being found, and admitting it was his"Hehe, made me laugh ^^
Other Comments by Tzsak
9. Comment #304333 by NewEnglandBob on December 20, 2008 at 6:18 pm
Atheists and secularists do not hate Sarah Palin. We laugh at her for her irrational beliefs and her ignorance of modern civilization. Other Comments by NewEnglandBob
10. Comment #304340 by Sarmatae1 on December 20, 2008 at 6:36 pm
2. Comment #304277 by rod-the-farmer on December 20, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Rodthefarmer
HA! Hitlers famous false flag attack. lol good one. Too true. It wasnt a jew though. It was an deranged unfortunate communist they blamed for burning the Reichstag building. I wouldnt recommend being a openly strident secularist in Wassilla for the next few weeks.
It is interesting that on the evening of the fire at a meeting hitler proclaimed the fire a "Beacon from heaven." A sign to kill all communist leaders in Germany as well as the social democrats. Hitler the atheist indeed.
I was in that war. I remember reading about these sorts of things. It was Himmlers brian child. It was not a frequently used tactic, but the nazi's did use it at least several times that I am aware of. One time on a radio station. A Border post with Poland as an excuse for invading poland also. I remember that was called canned goods.
EDIT: How do they know it wasn't god who set the fire. It could be a sign that they have strayed from the true path. Not likely I guess, after all god is always on their side.
Other Comments by Sarmatae1
11. Comment #304370 by Cartomancer on December 20, 2008 at 9:16 pm
Where can I find some of these militant homosexuals that the right-wing bigots keep talking about? I've always had something of a thing for strapping young men in uniform... Other Comments by Cartomancer
12. Comment #304377 by Laurie Fraser on December 20, 2008 at 9:29 pm
Where can I find some of these militant homosexuals that the right-wing bigots keep talking about? I've always had something of a thing for strapping young men in uniform...
Behave!
Other Comments by Laurie Fraser
13. Comment #304380 by Sarmatae1 on December 20, 2008 at 9:40 pm
11. Comment #304370 by Cartomancer on December 20, 2008 at 9:16 pm
You evidently are not looking in the right places. Have you tried decoys, like in duck hunting?
Apparently all you have to do is build a neo-con right wing evangelical temple in your back yard and proclaim that you are the leader. By all accounts the militant homosexuals will come by the droves to "topple" you. When they do you jump out and say "Ha ha gotcha!" Then take your pick of the flock. Seems pretty straight forward. Suprised nobody has thought of it before.
Other Comments by Sarmatae1
14. Comment #304381 by Cartomancer on December 20, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Hmm, you could be on to something there. Anyone know where you can get "kill the gays" banners printed at this time of year? Soon I won't be able to move for strapping young men in fabulously tailored balaclavas and fatigues... Other Comments by Cartomancer
15. Comment #304382 by Roland_F on December 20, 2008 at 9:50 pm
If – and it is still a big if – arson was committed by militant homosexuals or liberals simply driven by hatred of Palin
After the tremendous defeat of Sarah Palin why should a member of the winning [“morally degenerate Democrat party”] attack a church ? Could it be more likely a revenge of other (Mc Cain) fraction of the losing Republican party and anyone else ??
Well the Christians burned Rome under Nero to give him inspiration for lyrics and an excuse to persecute them. The communists burned the German Reichstag to give Hitler a starting signal of suppression and persecution. Aggressive Polish elements supported by parts of the regular Polish Army attacked Germany so that Hitler was forced “to shoot back starting at 5:45h”.
Saddam was planning 9/11, had stockpiles of WMD to attack GB wihtin 45 minutes notice ...
And now militant homosexuals or liberals attacking the bastion of Christianity in Alaska --- Deja Vu ?!
So Gerald Warner as catholic jihadist should be more outspoken and tell that the inerrant word of God made know to humanity in Leviticus has to say about homosexuality: stone them to death ! Well consenting sex between adult males is unacceptable for the Catholic Church, only the gang rape of little altar boys from catholic priests is “the glorious way to heaven”.
Other Comments by Roland_F
16. Comment #304415 by Ascaphus on December 20, 2008 at 11:50 pm
Prolibertas #4 said:...If they ever had had reason on their side, then they would never have had to resort to physical violence. So a religion resorting to violence is a clear sign that that religion is bullshit...
And as the author pointed out, violence and vandalism is the MO of the religious, despite their 'jihad' rhetoric concerning 'aggressive secularism.' Investigators know where to look first... Right here in my home state Obama was hung from a tree (in effigy) and burned. Anybody hazard a guess as to whether it was a state-run secular school or a private religious institution? Where would you look first for arsonists? No prize money offered.
Matt
Other Comments by Ascaphus
17. Comment #304422 by beanson on December 21, 2008 at 12:04 am
What a great article- crystal clear writing Other Comments by beanson
18. Comment #304432 by Lucas on December 21, 2008 at 1:06 am
Resounding applause. Those last two paragraphs are exquisite.Sarmatae1 - Really? You're a WWII vet?
Whoever burned that church, if I got my hands on them, would get a big high five for the arson, and then a big slug in the face for bringing that terrible woman back into the media spotlight. She was gone! Gone! You brought her back! Now I have to read her name and think about her AGAIN!
Other Comments by Lucas
19. Comment #304443 by johnscarborough on December 21, 2008 at 1:50 am
"If – and it is still a big if" god exists... Other Comments by johnscarborough
20. Comment #304444 by jabber on December 21, 2008 at 1:55 am
"If Wasilla Church was burned by arsonists making an ideological point, that is terrorism. "
So, when Jesus went into the temple and caused absolute (and quite violent) havoc, by throwing tables around and whipping people out of the temple - was he, by that defintion, a terorist, too? I think we should be told, and i think like should be compared with like, surely?
It reminds me, this situation, of a parent who has had all those years of obedience from his/her child and suddenly feels frightenend and inscure when the child begins to show some autonomy, some caopacity to form its own ideas and thoughts. The parent then fears abandonemnt, and does everyting it can to keep the child from becoming an adult... the parent wants them to be 'as children' for ever, thereby rertaining a measure of control and self-importantce at the expense of the child. This, too is quite a common HUMAN reaction to kids about to 'fly the nest'.
Other Comments by jabber
21. Comment #304445 by jabber on December 21, 2008 at 1:59 am
"14. Comment #304381 by Cartomancer on December 20, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Hmm, you could be on to something there. Anyone know where you can get "kill the gays" banners printed at this time of year? Soon I won't be able to move for strapping young men in fabulously tailored balaclavas and fatigues... "
I gather Turnbull and Asser have a spiffing line in black Sea Island cotton combats and Geives can supply all manner of 'tackle' - i myself prefer hobnail boots from Church's and berets from Locke's. Swaine and Adeney supplied my swordstick and Maple baton - it's the the ratherest thing!
Other Comments by jabber
22. Comment #304446 by jabber on December 21, 2008 at 2:03 am
15. Comment #304382 by Roland_F on December 20, 2008 at 9:50 pm
"Well consenting sex between adult males is unacceptable for the Catholic Church, only the gang rape of little altar boys from catholic priests is “the glorious way to heaven”. "
And the age of consent for girls in the Vatican is 12....someone made a 'clerical' error, there then.
Other Comments by jabber
23. Comment #304448 by stevencarrwork on December 21, 2008 at 2:16 am
You have to be careful with religion.Even a moderate like Dr. Jonathan Sacks can write columns in the Times (20/12/2008) praising violent rebellion and armed conflict as a valid response by a religion when it is under threat.
Other Comments by stevencarrwork
24. Comment #304451 by mordacious1 on December 21, 2008 at 2:49 am
There are other possible causes for Sarah's church burning down.
Perhaps Palin's daughter's future mother-in-law was cooking up a batch of meth in the vestibule.
Or the witch doctor preacher was lighting a witch on fire.
Sometimes these otherwise normal church activities can get out of control.
Other Comments by mordacious1
25. Comment #304452 by jabber on December 21, 2008 at 2:52 am
perhps this is all part of Palin's attention seeking behaviour... specially as everyone's moved on to another party with more talented guests. Other Comments by jabber
26. Comment #304479 by Obecalp on December 21, 2008 at 4:46 am
I always appreciate articles like this one - interesting and somewhat humorous as they are..But - I absolutely hate when creationists take sentences out of context and exagerate, so it annoys me a great deal to read that Warner apparently thinks that:
Gays and liberal secularists as jihadists!
Which is not implied in the quotation of Warner (see article) - as suggested by Grayling.
Ok, I might be bickering, but I don't think 'we' should obscure the truth to prove a point...
Other Comments by Obecalp
27. Comment #304480 by Anvil on December 21, 2008 at 4:58 am
Ah, bliss. To wake up on a Sunday morning and read such a tirade of truth. Simply bliss. His short collection of essays - Against All Gods - is my choice of present for family waverers: short, sweet, to the point, no fucking around.Grayling is first on my list of guests for the perfect Xmas dinner. Then there would be Darwin, Alexie Sayle, Newton... shaping up for a great fight!
Anvil.
Other Comments by Anvil
28. Comment #304482 by jabber on December 21, 2008 at 5:07 am
hang on everybody! We got it all wrong! I have found irrefutable evidence using secular history and logical argument! It's all true! We really must stop taking into account all the bits that don't agree with our modern view of the Bible and commit ourselves to those things we've already decided qualify as truth THEN find the bits that fit! All this time, ive been using my intellect instead of relying merely on 'heart felt feelings'. I feel so silly, now.
http://www.allaboutgod.com/is-the-bible-true.htm
Other Comments by jabber
29. Comment #304486 by zosky on December 21, 2008 at 5:21 am
well said. It has always suprised me that the religious seem oblivious to the hate they are spreading and the excessive reserves of bad will they are storing up for themselves. So that when the mormon church campaigned and succeeded in taking away marriage rights from homosexuals and when the religious label homosexuals as equivalent to pedophiles and worthy of burning in hell, they still seem absolutely puzzled by the fact that protestors will come to their church door. Yes, there is a cost to "preaching the good news" when that good news is a direct assault on the person of others different from you. My roommate's ultraconservative family is warring now over her sister who is a lesbian and the family cannot seem to understand why the sister gets so emotional about their views about homosexuality being an abomination and a sin worthy of burning in hell. Why can't she understand that they mean well, my roommate keeps asking me. Why? Because the sister's very own family is attacking her very being. And of course she is going to take it just a little bit personally.Other Comments by zosky
30. Comment #304487 by Anvil on December 21, 2008 at 5:22 am
28. Comment #304482 by jabber:Thanks, Jabber. Just followed the link and pissed myself! :o)
Anvil.
Other Comments by Anvil
31. Comment #304488 by Stafford Gordon on December 21, 2008 at 5:23 am
None of this should have to said nowadays, but since ot does still have to be, who better than Grayling to say it, and keep on doing so; thank you Professor.Other Comments by Stafford Gordon
32. Comment #304498 by LaurieB on December 21, 2008 at 5:46 am
Dear Carto,
I hate to rain on your parade, but why would you assume that all the militant homosexuals that show up would be, "strapping young men in.."
What if a crowd of strapping young lesbians shows up? Tee Hee...
Other Comments by LaurieB
33. Comment #304500 by Cartomancer on December 21, 2008 at 5:53 am
It's my fantasy, I'll conduct it how I like!But you're right of course. That would be a problem. The Grand Strategos of all the Lesbians is terribly into fatigues and paramilitary posturing. I'll have to make sure I set up a pro-lesbian fundagelical nuthouse so as to dissuade the sistren of the shaven scalp from intervening and ensure that I only get the boys trying to burn the place down. Perhaps some sort of special fluff-covered drinking vessel for the holy communion?
Other Comments by Cartomancer
34. Comment #304510 by LaurieB on December 21, 2008 at 6:44 am
Dear Carto,
It WAS your fantasy until it was posted here. I've decided to hijak it.
Carto declares himself the leader of a right wing evangelical temple in his back yard. The militant lesbians come by in droves to topple him. By some strange unexplainable coincidence, LaurieB comes out of his house carrying a tray of tea and crumpets. (I'm not sure what crumpets actually are.) The lesbians ignore the tea and crummpets. They are suspicious of a Bostonian American serving tea to Brits. Lascivious expressions all around.
I am absolutely not responsible for what followed...
Other Comments by LaurieB
35. Comment #304512 by Colwyn Abernathy on December 21, 2008 at 6:49 am
As long as religion is a danger to the lives and liberties of others, secular liberals will never relent in their protests
Damn right. AND you don't see us blowing ourselves up, OR killing anyone in general, so the whole "war" thing is a mighty misnomer.
Other Comments by Colwyn Abernathy
36. Comment #304513 by AllanW on December 21, 2008 at 6:50 am
Comment #304510 by LaurieB on December 21, 2008 at 6:44 am I won't comment on the developing fantasy but will contribute to this;
'carrying a tray of tea and crumpets. (I'm not sure what crumpets actually are.)'
In the Midlands these items are called 'pikelets' as they were toasted over open fires on the end of a pike. Yet another example of how this staggeringly small island has a different language for every ten miles you travel in it.
Other Comments by AllanW
37. Comment #304516 by Colwyn Abernathy on December 21, 2008 at 6:58 am
If what is suspected turns out to be true, the burning of Wasilla Bible Church is a metaphor for the onslaught against Christianity that aggressive secularism has mounted in Europe and which, under the influence of the morally degenerate Democrat party, is now invading the United States.
IF? When was the last time rampant homosexuals burned anything more than Crate & Barrel patchouli? This is purely linguistic. Turning their own language and terminology against a group that, at worst, is shouting "Bullshit!" at full voice. Don't see secularists and humanists committing acts like this. It would be uncharacteristic. And I have a feeling these fuckers KNOW it, too.
Other Comments by Colwyn Abernathy
38. Comment #304517 by LaurieB on December 21, 2008 at 7:04 am
Allan W
Pikelets? That's interesting. I've never heard of them. It's easy to find scones here. I'm not sure how you would judge the American scones in comparison to English scones. My scone recipe was given to me by a friend in Manchester England. English muffins are a common breakfast item here. I'm not sure if they are actually "English" at all. American items often are labelled English this and French that as a marketing ploy.
Other Comments by LaurieB
39. Comment #304518 by mdhutton1949 on December 21, 2008 at 7:09 am
Before making wild accusations about "militant homosexual secularists" perhaps investigations into "arson for the insurance money" or "bored teenagers high on methamphetamine*" should be made! After all, those are probably the main motives for arson.*Each snort carefully handcrafted by Palin's future sister-in-law
Other Comments by mdhutton1949
40. Comment #304521 by epeeist on December 21, 2008 at 7:26 am
Comment #304513 by AllanW In the Midlands these items are called 'pikelets' as they were toasted over open fires on the end of a pike.Pikelets in Yorkshire too. And yes, lots of variants in recipes as well as names. Do you get Staffordshire Oatcakes near where you live now?
And going north and east one of course gets Singing Hinnies.
Other Comments by epeeist
41. Comment #304522 by bluebird on December 21, 2008 at 7:26 am
This article is savory fare for Solstice morn!
To digress:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-weddings14-2008dec14,0,7973695.story?track=rss
Other Comments by bluebird
42. Comment #304524 by AdrianB on December 21, 2008 at 7:29 am
It's definitely pikelets in my opinion.
:)
Other Comments by AdrianB
43. Comment #304525 by the great teapot on December 21, 2008 at 7:31 am
Let this be a warning to you in america, you are not safe from the militant secularism which is rendering west europe an uninhabital wasteland.Its a living hell here, brother killing brother, father killing son. The devout gunned down as they pray.
And thats just the pikelet wars.
Other Comments by the great teapot
44. Comment #304529 by LaurieB on December 21, 2008 at 7:48 am
TGT
So why should we worry? We have neither pikelets nor crumpets here.
Other Comments by LaurieB
45. Comment #304530 by Wosret on December 21, 2008 at 7:51 am
I do think that he ignored the possibility of militant liberal homosexuals. All three! The horror! Personally I'm an evangelical, fundamentalist, militant, atheistic, secular, liberal, vegan, environmentalist, otaku and I'm moderately moderate.
It is a lot of work.
Other Comments by Wosret
46. Comment #304534 by AllanW on December 21, 2008 at 8:26 am
Believe me when I tell you I'm no culinary expert LaurieB (I just eat 'em) but scones are sweet, muffins are half-way to being bread and pikelets are savoury. Epeeist; not round here but my brother-in-law lives in Congleton and they have the most amazing oatcake shop just around the corner from where he lives.
p.s.
the great teapot.
Don't people just get flamed in the pikelet wars?
I'll get me coat ...
Other Comments by AllanW
47. Comment #304536 by Cartomancer on December 21, 2008 at 8:38 am
Is that why they're called pikelets in the freezing wastelands of the north? I guess the civil war never quite finished up there, so it makes sense...Apparently nobody quite knows where the word crumpet came from though. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crumpet. Looks Anglo-Saxon to me, and hence probably from Old High German, but I have been wrong in the past. Either way they're still rather pleasant with raspberry jam. And quite helpful when trying to seduce vegetarians, but that's probably just me.
Anyway, back to that vital war on religion...
Other Comments by Cartomancer
48. Comment #304538 by LaurieB on December 21, 2008 at 8:44 am
AllanW
Our English Muffins are breadlike. The other muffins are cake. Small round cakes. Some types are even frosted. I'm pretty sure that we have nothing like oatcakes here. Hmmmm...An idea for a business is shaping up.
Other Comments by LaurieB
49. Comment #304539 by Ygern on December 21, 2008 at 8:44 am
Wouldn't the people most likely to hate Sarah Palin be Republican? Her inanity did after all go a long way towards losing them the election. Other Comments by Ygern
50. Comment #304540 by jesusmasterbated on December 21, 2008 at 8:44 am
if only grayling did not give so much credit to the secular liberals. they run amuck in many other areas of American society, so much so that they only differ from their non-secular liberal counterparts in areas of believing in god.we live in an economic oligarchy that most do not want to acknowledge. they would like to believe that overall the government is good and helps. believing that my government is essentially sound and not another form of economic industry is as folly as believing in a personal god. liberal american cuntnuggets. im saving my money to move to zurich apparently they do not believe in god or unsound economic theories.
Other Comments by jesusmasterbated
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DVDs
'The Genius of Charles Darwin: The Uncut Interviews' DVD
'The Genius of Charles Darwin' DVD
'The Enemies of Reason: The Uncut Interviews' DVD
'Richard Dawkins: Appearances & Events 2007-2008' DVD
'Enemies of Reason' DVD
'Root of All Evil?' DVD
'Root of All Evil? The Uncut Interviews' DVD
'Growing Up in the Universe' DVD
'Voices of Science' DVD
'The Four Horsemen' DVD
'Break the Science Barrier' DVD
1. Comment #304270 by Aley on December 20, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Fantastic.I think I may print off the final two paragraphs and stick them next to all the idiotic evangelical posters on the noticeboards around my halls of residence. Rock on.
Other Comments by Aley