Monday, December 22, 2008 | Reason : Religion as Child Abuse | print version

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Saudi court tells girl aged EIGHT she cannot divorce husband who is 50 years her senior

by Daily Mail

Thanks to Dhamma for the link.

Reposted from:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1099447/Saudi-court-tells-girl-aged-EIGHT-divorce-husband-50-years-senior.html

A Saudi court has rejected a plea to divorce an eight-year-old girl married off by her father to a man who is 58, saying the case should wait until the girl reaches puberty.

The divorce plea was filed in August by the girl's divorced mother with a court at Unayzah, 135 miles north of Riyadh just after the marriage contract was signed by the father and the groom.

Lawyer Abdullar Jtili said:"The judge has dismissed the plea, filed by the mother, because she does not have the right to file such a case, and ordered that the plea should be filed by the girl herself when she reaches puberty."

"She doesn't know yet that she has been married," Jtili said then of the girl who was about to begin her fourth year at primary school.

Relatives who did not wish to be named said that the marriage had not yet been consummated, and that the girl continued to live with her mother.

They said that the father had set a verbal condition by which the marriage is not consummated for another 10 years, when the girl turns 18.

The father had agreed to marry off his daughter for an advance dowry of £5,000, as he was apparently facing financial problems, they said.

The father was in court and he remained adamant in favour of the marriage, they added.

Mr Jtili said he was going to appeal the verdict at the court of cassation, the supreme court in the ultra-conservative kingdom which applies Islamic Sharia law in its courts.

Arranged marriages involving pre-adolescents are occasionally reported in the
Arabian Peninsula, including in Saudi Arabia where the strict conservative Wahabi version of Sunni Islam holds sway and polygamy is common.

In Yemen in April, another girl aged eight was granted a divorce after her unemployed father forced her to marry a man of 28.

Posted: Monday, December 22, 2008 | Permalink

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1. Comment #304837 by Francis Clarke on December 22, 2008 at 11:23 am

Disgusting. This sort of thing makes my blood boil with rage.
Seeing as this is a female child living under Saudi Arabia law, I honestly have little hope for the case.

EDIT: The man virtually sold his daughter for £5,000? Forget religion for now, I'm asking how a father can do that religion or not.

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2. Comment #304839 by chewedbarber on December 22, 2008 at 11:28 am

I'm asking how a father can do that religion or not.

The father had agreed to marry off his daughter for an advance dowry of £5,000, as he was apparently facing financial problems, they said.

For money obviously.

Other Comments by chewedbarber

3. Comment #304840 by flying goose on December 22, 2008 at 11:28 am

I could not agree more, one wonders why we in the west have anything to with a regime that allows this. Answer, our addiction to oil, I will try and remember that next time I fill up.

Other Comments by flying goose

4. Comment #304853 by beanson on December 22, 2008 at 11:52 am

Their society and religion views women as objects, with this worldview is it not understandable that the men in this case act the way they do?

They behave like scum first and foremost because of indoctrination NOT natural inclination which would be to nurture their kin

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5. Comment #304855 by al-rawandi on December 22, 2008 at 11:54 am

On another note.... oil is $35 a barrel, what happened to the much discussed... PEAK OIL?

Ha!

Oh is anyone even surprised at this story coming from Saudi?

Other Comments by al-rawandi

6. Comment #304865 by Mango on December 22, 2008 at 12:09 pm

Some places, like America and the North Sea, have passed peak oil. The question is whether the Middle East has as well. Barrel price reflects demand as much as supply, remember, and demand is low in the slumping global economy. So a relatively low price does not necessarily imply anything about peak oil.

Other Comments by Mango

7. Comment #304878 by Eshto on December 22, 2008 at 12:28 pm

Ew.

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8. Comment #304883 by F_A_F on December 22, 2008 at 12:34 pm

In Yemen in April, another girl aged eight was granted a divorce after her unemployed father forced her to marry a man of 28.

So these marriages are not for love OR religion, but for money? Surely a religious society would see the lack of value in allowing this sort of marriage arrangement exist?

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9. Comment #304892 by flying goose on December 22, 2008 at 12:41 pm

Ah, but the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.

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10. Comment #304897 by posiedon on December 22, 2008 at 12:44 pm

Just one more good and moral precedent set by the profit Mo (pox be upon him)

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11. Comment #304911 by chewedbarber on December 22, 2008 at 12:56 pm

Their society and religion views women as objects.

Yes, and the problem is much bigger than is being reported.

So sick to watch a girl of normal means be married to a retarded man she has never met, and another girl to a schizophrenic she has never met.

But there are girls in our universities!

:)

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12. Comment #304940 by amalthea on December 22, 2008 at 1:29 pm

So, 8 year old divorcees, 8 year old brides, 12 year old adultresses stoned to death, a mullah proclaiming that, even in full hijab, women should show only one eye...... yep, that'd be saudi arabia as normal.

What are these guys so afraid of? Oh wait. Women discover they are equal in all ways and realise the men they live with are actually bullies, liars, paedophiles and weak minded. Now it all becomes clear.

To paraphrase: when a man wants to find someone to blame, his finger always finds a woman to point at.

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13. Comment #304953 by al-rawandi on December 22, 2008 at 1:40 pm

amalthea,

To paraphrase: when a man wants to find someone to blame, his finger always finds a woman to point at.

Women ALWAYS use generalizations.

Thanks for playing.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

14. Comment #304959 by prettygoodformonkeys on December 22, 2008 at 1:46 pm

al-rawandi

I've told you a million times not to exaggerate...

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15. Comment #304961 by prettygoodformonkeys on December 22, 2008 at 1:49 pm

amalthea

when a man wants to find someone to blame, his finger always finds a woman to point at

Why is there no term for the reverse of miscogeny?

Is it because we're not allowing ourselves to acknowledge its existence, because of the tenor of our times?

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16. Comment #304967 by headcold on December 22, 2008 at 2:00 pm

The little girl shouldn't have agree to marriage in the first place, and instead should have contacted her lawyer.

[/sarcasm]

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17. Comment #304977 by Grimalkin on December 22, 2008 at 2:07 pm

Prettygoodformonkeys:
There actually is a term for the reverse of misogyny - misandry. Misanthropy being the hatred of all humanity (both genders). Controversy avoided!

That being said, Amalthea has a point. Many "traditional" cultures make women the scape-goats. They become such easy targets that any man who wants someone to blame will go after women. It's an exaggeration to say that "when a man wants to find someone to blame, his finger always finds a woman to point at," but it happens a significant portion of the time, even in the west...

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18. Comment #304980 by thewhitepearl on December 22, 2008 at 2:10 pm

They said that the father had set a verbal condition by which the marriage is not consummated for another 10 years, when the girl turns 18.

Oh well at least she gets to wait until she is 18 to pet the one-eyed snake. How very moral and thoughtful of them.

Ummm...Uhhh..What? W-W-What is that? Eh, to paraphrase...No. No, no that's not right.

... PEAK OIL?

Al, you dunderhead! What are you thinking? I know we haven't seen Teratornis around in quite a while but that is no reason to conjur him up. Lets not even chance it.

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19. Comment #304997 by al-rawandi on December 22, 2008 at 2:23 pm

TWP,

$35 a barrel... couldn't resist. "Dunderhead", I like this term.

Prettygoodformonkeys,

Were you being serious? What did I do? (Bill Clinton voice)

Other Comments by al-rawandi

20. Comment #305028 by Mayhemm on December 22, 2008 at 2:43 pm

I am far from a politically correct person, but there are so many things in this article that just make me want to bang my head on a table (I won't though, because my doctor told me I should stop doing that):

1) The girl is married at 8 years old, but doesn't know it. It's bad enough she was married off for money, but they could at least tell her. I mean, if she hits it off with a guy in the next 10 years, she could be stoned for adultery. Think of her safety, people.

2) She can be married off at 8, but can't contest it until puberty. Hmmmm....doesn't that seem a little backwards? Also, since puberty hit everyone at different times, this is really just a way for the state to say "You can apply for a divorce when WE say so."

3) I just have to ask, where are the Evangelicals with their "family values" and "sanctity of marriage" tripe now? You'd think they'd be all over this. But hey, those Muslims, they play rough. Don't want to get them riled.

That's just a few of them.

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21. Comment #305044 by al-rawandi on December 22, 2008 at 2:57 pm

Time to quote mine:

"Bill Clinton...wants....to....finger....bang....traditional... goats....in... Saudi Arabia."

It's just too easy.

Other Comments by al-rawandi

22. Comment #305055 by Clairebear on December 22, 2008 at 3:08 pm

Another disgusting example of a patriarchy run rampant. How low can a father sink?

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23. Comment #305057 by IPV4 on December 22, 2008 at 3:08 pm

Barrel price reflects demand as much as supply, remember, and demand is low in the slumping global economy.

Mango,
If you think that the price of oil is based on just supply and demand then I have a bridge to sell you. As soon as the financial collapse starting happening the price of oil started plummeting. Did that many people stop driving/flying in one weeks time??? I think the price of oil of late has more to do with speculation then supply and demand. People stopped buying futures of oil therefore the price of oil dropped. Nothing to do with supply and demand. A quote from an oil executive when the price of oil was at 140/barrel was "a price of oil should be no more then 60/barrel."That is unregulated international derivatives have more to do with the rise and fall of oil prices.

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24. Comment #305061 by chewedbarber on December 22, 2008 at 3:10 pm

Clairebear, let her become a Christian.

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25. Comment #305062 by NewEnglandBob on December 22, 2008 at 3:12 pm

Even a non-human primate would not do something this inhumane.

There must be something genetically wrong with these people.

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26. Comment #305090 by Border Collie on December 22, 2008 at 3:44 pm

Dream on pedophiles ... If the ten year thing holds up, he'll be 68 and she'll be 18 ... LMAO! With any luck, he'll die ... of anticipation?! Wank, wank, wank!!! Jeez, what an idiot! In the West we call things like this adoption. Hello.

I'm in the oil/gas business ... supply/demand is a complete fallacy ... nothing but a catchphrase excuse to keep the peasants and serfs confused ... I guess you guys who believe in supply/demand in the oil/gas business also believe in supply/demand in the diamond business.

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27. Comment #305095 by BigJohn on December 22, 2008 at 3:52 pm

Hey, Islam requires that a man marry a virgin. At eight years old this little girl was probably still virgin when she married.

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28. Comment #305103 by AdamMil on December 22, 2008 at 4:14 pm

al-rawandi: On another note.... oil is $35 a barrel, what happened to the much discussed... PEAK OIL?

It'll probably happen all the faster, as there hasn't been any unexpected increase in supply, but the lower price will increase demand.

Other Comments by AdamMil

29. Comment #305167 by Greyman on December 22, 2008 at 6:42 pm

18. Comment #304980 by thewhitepearl on December 22, 2008 at 2:10 pm
They said that the father had set a verbal condition by which the marriage is not consummated for another 10 years, when the girl turns 18.
Oh well at least she gets to wait until she is 18 to pet the one-eyed snake. How very moral and thoughtful of them.

And of course, there is the implication that since the condition is set, then it is not assumed to always be so.

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30. Comment #305169 by Dhamma on December 22, 2008 at 6:49 pm

My first article submitted.. "w0000t"

Shouldn't be hard to understand the old man used Muhammed to legitimize his actions with, as it bears a striking similarity to Muhammed and Aisha who was only 9 when he married her. Muhammed had some proper values, one can't deny that.

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31. Comment #305170 by Brian English on December 22, 2008 at 6:53 pm

Cardinal Dhamma, how goes the collection of tythes?

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32. Comment #305173 by Dhamma on December 22, 2008 at 7:01 pm

Praised be thy Lord!

Oh yeah, you just want me for the money, I get that every day!

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33. Comment #305176 by Brian English on December 22, 2008 at 7:11 pm

Cardinal Dhamma, it is part of your pastoral duty to collect tythes from the faithful. You get a 10% cut, praise be me.

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34. Comment #305182 by Dhamma on December 22, 2008 at 7:25 pm

Lord,

Do forgive me, I'm such a silly little cardinal.

Lord, don't get me wrong now, but there's been something worrying me lately. There's been problems with my, um, prayers.. Some technical issues.. No idea what's not working here?

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35. Comment #305188 by Brian English on December 22, 2008 at 7:39 pm

Cardinal Dhamma, if there are problems with your prayers, the problem lies within you. If you cannot rectify the problem, the inquisition will assist.

Your lack of faith is disturbing....

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36. Comment #305195 by Goldy on December 22, 2008 at 7:57 pm

Streth, Brian. The evil me avatar is getting eviler and eviler.
Peak oil - hmmm. Was a thing on the Beeb about the cut in supply to try and bring oil back to $70/barrel at least. Of course, everyone would have to play ball and OPEC doesn't normally do that.
Price, methinks, was purely speculative. Same with dairy, wheat, rice.
As it is, I'm too skint to use much oil nowadays. Need to save my money for water (why doesn't this damn country rain finally???)

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37. Comment #305199 by Laurie Fraser on December 22, 2008 at 8:01 pm

Streth? Goldy, I think your evil twin is having an effect on your vocabulary...

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38. Comment #305202 by Goldy on December 22, 2008 at 8:04 pm

Yeah, sorry Laurie. Here's the "w" I forgot to put in strewth....

;-)

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39. Comment #305203 by Dhamma on December 22, 2008 at 8:04 pm

Lord, the inquisition? Surely didn't expect it!

Yes, the problem lies within me. Someone told me about other gods, may have disturbed my concentration, but I'm not that gullible. I obviously know you're the only true God - you told me.

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40. Comment #305204 by justaperson on December 22, 2008 at 8:05 pm

Women are property in that culture. While religion may be a justification for that, it isn't necessarily true that if the religion were abandoned women would have equal rights. They could come up with some other ridiculous rationalization, like they are biologically inferior, or less intelligent, or something else.

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41. Comment #305208 by Brian English on December 22, 2008 at 8:10 pm

Lord, the inquisition? Surely didn't expect it!

Nobody expects the....oh you know!

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42. Comment #305213 by Goldy on December 22, 2008 at 8:18 pm

Had a gander at Arab News to see if this was there. Wasn't (but then there's so many it's a bit like reporting a mugging in London). Did find this, though...

Visiting graves
Adil Salahi, Arab News

Can we seek help from a deceased person when visiting his grave? Can we pray directly to the Prophet and request him to grant us our needs? (Nawaz)

In a highly authentic Hadith, the Prophet (peace be upon him) is quoted as saying: “When a person dies, all his actions come to an end except in one of three ways: A continuing act of charity, a useful contribution to knowledge and a dutiful child who prays for him.” This is a clear statement that after death, no one can do anything for himself, let alone for others. Moreover, God says in the Qur’an: “You cannot make those who are in their graves hear you.” (35: 22) This statement is very clear and precise, telling us that a dead person buried in the grave cannot hear or listen.

When we take the Qur’anic verse and the Prophet’s statement together we realize that when a living person visits the grave of a dead person and makes a request, he is actually addressing someone who can neither hear him nor do anything for himself or others. Needless to say, it is a totally futile effort. Moreover, such an action is against Islamic principles, which make people’s destiny determined by God alone according to His absolute knowledge and wisdom. Those who visit such graves in the hope that the dead will help them because of their position with God are actually saying that they know how God will judge these people. Such a claim means that they are aware of something that God says He keeps to Himself. On what basis can they make such a claim?

Nor is it correct to pray to the Prophet to grant us our needs. He certainly was the best man that ever walked the earth, and he is in a favored position with God. There is no doubt about that. However, we cannot assign to him what he does not have. God has granted him a position that will enable him to intercede with God for his followers, appealing to Him for their forgiveness, but this takes place on the Day of Judgment, not in this life. The Prophet’s role in this life is completed and he no longer has any influence on events, except through his teachings. When people obey his teachings, they are able to accomplish good things in human life, but this is through their own actions.

Moreover, why do we need to pray to anyone other than God? Suppose you have a problem with a governmental department and you are seeking to ensure that you get your rights. If you have a chance to put your case to the head of that department, and he assures you that he will listen attentively to your case and ensure that you get what is rightfully yours, would you prefer to put your case to one of his employees? Suppose that the head of the department promises you that he will give you double what you are entitled for, would you employ a lawyer to speak on your behalf? What if the rules in that department make clear that when a lawyer is employed, you cannot get anything beyond what is rightfully yours?

This is a proper comparison concerning our position with God. He tells us that when we pray Him, He will answer us and grant us what we have prayed Him for. He says in the Qur’an: “Your Lord says: ‘Pray to me and I will answer you.’” (40: 60) The Prophet tells us in several Hadiths that God answers all our prayers and gives us much more. Why do we need to go to others when going to anyone else is certain to incur God’s anger? To call on dead people whom we think to have been pious and to put our requests to them is an act of worship addressed to them and it is certain to incur God’s displeasure. Therefore, it must never be done by a Muslim.

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43. Comment #305217 by Laurie Fraser on December 22, 2008 at 8:22 pm

Nor is it correct to pray to the Prophet to grant us our needs. He certainly was the best man that ever walked the earth,

Oh, beauty! So I can now go around raping nine year-old girls and feel holy, can I?

Which leads us to the WWMD question in relation to this case.

Answer: he'd wait a year before he raped her.

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44. Comment #305218 by Goldy on December 22, 2008 at 8:25 pm

Laurie, sometimes I despair of what I read because I know there are too many people that just simply believe.
I sometimes think I have to try and not read anything and avoid newspapers and the like to see if humanity can be restored in my estimation.

Luckily, everyone I meet, even the religious ones, are completely normal and I start to improve my outlook.

And finally we have some rain :-)

Maybe it's going to be a good Xmas after all!

Other Comments by Goldy

45. Comment #305221 by Dhamma on December 22, 2008 at 8:37 pm

"Maybe it's going to be a good Xmas after all!"

I've had an Australian christmas. Good is not the word I'd use. Fucking bizarre comes better to mind.

Everything could seem normal to a Scandinavian christmas. You have the christmas music from the stores, people in silly red caps, the ridiculous joyous feeling among the people, christmas trees in the streets... Very normal, apart from one thing - 40 CENTIGRADES!

Other Comments by Dhamma

46. Comment #305224 by Goldy on December 22, 2008 at 8:42 pm

Dhamma, I'm in NZ so our weather isn't stupidly hot :-)
And rain, sweet glowious rain! I tell you, moving into a house with a water tank really makes one appreciate the water we all so take for granted (especially if one has to buy it to fill the tank!)

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47. Comment #305236 by Dhamma on December 22, 2008 at 8:57 pm

Ah, a fellow sheep shagger (I'm half Norwegian)!

I guess it's pretty much the same as here then. Ten years ago, always snow from mid november. Now... pouring rain in the end of december.

Edit: Apart from you still having 15-20 centigrades?

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48. Comment #305239 by Brian English on December 22, 2008 at 9:05 pm

Cardinal Dhamma, why are talking to that infidel?

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49. Comment #305240 by 8teist on December 22, 2008 at 9:08 pm

Gday Goldy , my tanks are filling as we speak,yours filling ?

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50. Comment #305244 by Dhamma on December 22, 2008 at 9:13 pm

Well, he was... Sorry Lord, didn't expect the.. um, well.

He was fooling me with his similar looks, but he doesn't have your lovely eyes.

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