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Tuesday, February 17, 2009 | Reason : Science of Religion | print version Print | Comments |

Document Why Women Are Bound to Religion: An Evolutionary Perspective

by R. Elisabeth Cornwell, PhD

Reposted from:
http://suicidegirls.com/news/culture/23567/

As we celebrate the 200th birthday of the godfather of evolution, Charles Darwin, mankind still looks to religion for answers that his theories have tangibly brought fourth. Statistically speaking however, womankind is even more likely to believe and pass on religious dogma, which presents a logical dichotomy given that they're the gender most oppressed by their faith.

Following on from her previous article on The Evolution of Religion, R. Elisabeth Cornwell explores the evolutionary reasons why women endure and pass on the bondage of belief.


Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Tim. 2:11-14


Why Women Are Bound to Religion: An Evolutionary Perspective

R. Elisabeth Cornwell, PhD


Religion has both revered and reviled women, exalting their fertility and fearing their sexuality. While religions throughout history have mutated, gone extinct, and propagated -- the position of women within their ever expanding reach has usually fared poorly. Yet, women are far more likely to be religious, attend religious services, and inculcate their children with their beliefs*. Why are women so willing to give in to religious dogma and subject themselves to the degradations often inflicted upon them? This is a fascinating question, and is especially perplexing when you consider the great strides toward equality women have gained in the West. Yet, without women passing on faith, belief, and dogma, religion could not survive through the generations.

The answers we seek shall neither come easily nor be all-encompassing. As with all things psychological, we must account for individual differences, culture, family, friends, media and politics. However, we can begin to unravel the mystery of why women willingly submit to male domination through religious hierarchies by examining our most evolved psychological adaptations. While it is not possible to cover all the details necessary to treat such a vast and complicated subject, I hope to tease you into considering ideas that challenge long-held assumptions.

Sexual Selection: Why Men and Women Differ

In case it has escaped your notice (or fallen foul of your political sensibilities), men and women differ. In terms of our physical differences, women on average are smaller, weaker, more gracile, and distribute fat differently. There are a number of physical secondary sexual characteristics, that is, characteristics that are not necessary for reproduction but differ between the sexes, some of which are obvious such as more muscular development in men and exaggerated breast development in women**. Other characteristics are more subtle; For example, women have fuller lips, larger eyes, and smaller chins on average than men. These characteristics are mediated by hormones, largely testosterone, estrogen, and progesterone.

But the physical characteristics we can see are not the only differences that come about because of hormones. Our brains are awash in hormones throughout our fetal development, during our childhood, and then the familiar (some might say ominous) surge during adolescence. As adults, our hormones still continue to affect us and as we age, the waning of hormones affects us as well.

It is because of hormones that male and female brains differ. While there is no evidence for differences in intelligence (as was believed in the nineteenth century and on into the twentieth - women were not even allowed to vote until 1920!), to deny that differences exist is simply wishful thinking. Evolution cares nothing for either misogyny or feminism; it cares not for what is moral or immoral, just or unjust: without caring at all, it builds survival machines to carry genes into the next generation.

But what has this to do with religious beliefs among women? Quite a bit actually. When we look at some of the behavioral and psychological differences between women and men, we can glimpse some of the adaptations necessary for our ancestors' survival. What makes humans human is our large brains, and in order for our brains to develop, evolution had to 'intervene'; Ancestral women had to develop a wider pelvis to allow the large head of a newborn through the birth canal. Another way to facilitate and accommodate big brains was to give birth to premature infants. This is why human neonates are so helpless compared to all other primates.

As hominid brains grew in size and complexity, so too did the need for extended childhood, late-onset reproduction, and extended life-span. The vulnerability of infants and children would have led our ancestral females to select mates who were more likely to stay around, as well as to rely heavily on support from the group. Women would have relied on close female relatives to provide both emotional and practical support. Males within the group would have provided protein and defense against invading males. It was not only a woman's individual survival that was dependent on the group, but more importantly it was essential to the survival of her offspring. In other words, the future of her genes.

With this in mind, we can begin to understand why it is so essential for women to fit into their social group. Exclusion would have meant extinction since those women who could not live in accord with the other members of their group would have had fewer or no descendants. Thus, the evolutionary pressures that shaped the need to live in harmony with the group pressed more strongly on women than on men. This is not to suggest that there were not strong evolutionary pressure for males, too, to conform, indeed there were. However, males who risked upsetting the status quo and did so successfully would have gained an advantage in their own reproductive success. Females who tried the same would not.

Before going on, I need to go touch on a rather obvious but extremely important element of male/female differences: unequal reproductive success. This simply means that men are capable of producing a far greater range of offspring than women. Reproductive success of the average male equals that of the average female. But the most successful male is far more successful than the least successful male, and than any female. Males can hold harems (which means that some males never reproduce at all). Females cannot hold harems - or at least there would be no point in their doing so. Sperm is cheap, wombs are costly and gestation time consuming. Women are limited in the number of offspring they can produce, while men, feasibly, could sire thousands of infants if only they could find willing partners. Thus, where women tend to range between 0 and 5 offspring, men can range from 0 to double digits (and beyond!). This very simple fact makes it far more advantageous for men to risk everything, including social exclusion and death, if there is a chance they can gain sexual access to a substantial number of women. However, women gain very little by risking it all, since they cannot increase their ability to have more offspring by increasing their number of sexual partners. Women therefore would have been under much stronger evolutionary pressures to 'play it safe' and remain with the status quo. Let the man take the risks, and if he succeeds choose him as a sexual partner.

Religion and Cultural Norms

It is not my purpose here to discuss the relationship between religion and culture, but I will suggest that, for as long as written history has existed, cities, states, and empires have enlisted the help of religious leaders, and religious leaders have relied on the protection of the state. This is true of all the major religions of today, with no exception.

Religion is a human invention, the gods and goddesses that have come and gone during our short history have all displayed the best and (more often) worst human traits. They fell in love, jealousy was common, revenge, anger and trickery prevailed, the struggle for power was universal, and all could be brought to folly and woe due to excessive hubris, greed, and lust. Soap operas pale in comparison! What concerns me, though, is that religion reflected the culture of the times - and, for better or worse, the religions most prominent today are all rather ancient beasts that grew out of a time when women were subservient to men, and often considered as property to be bartered, battered, and controlled.

So we are back to our original question: Why do women today continue to fall victim to an archaic system of beliefs that foster misogynistic behavior? Why are women even more likely to be religious than men? The simple answer is that it is safe. Please don't take this as a slight against women -- it isn't. Male/female differences exist, but I'm certainly not suggesting that risk taking is a better option than playing it safe. After all, women are less likely than men to die doing incredibly stupid things (check out the Darwin Awards it is nearly exclusively male 'winners'). But the fact that women are less likely to push the status quo for fear of social exclusion and even retribution makes a lot of evolutionary sense.

I acknowledge that some women have in fact taken extraordinary risks and have paid the ultimate price. And I am not saying that the majority of men will risk everything in order to achieve a particular goal. But we are looking at general trends, and men overall take more risks.

Religion and Kinship

Religion creates the illusion of kinship, and kinship is crucial to a woman's reproductive success. Even today, single mothers (and fathers) who receive support from family often avoid many of the pitfalls that single parents without support endure. Family support reduces stress through emotional support as well as practical support, and throughout the last 100,000 years would have been a critical factor in raising an infant to reach reproductive age.

The instant support group that religious institutions offer remains today. Churches, synagogues, temples, mosques offer immediate female fictive kin (assumed family). Raising a child, with or without a partner, is a difficult and daunting task. Women, especially new mothers, seek out other women for advice, encouragement, and support. Certainly, women who were raised with a religious upbringing would be more likely to become dependent on these intimate social relationships with other women. This inter-dependency taps into deep psychological needs, and being excluded from it would trigger a very primal fear response.

In order for women to abandon religion and its securities, there needs to be something tangible to replace the support that it offers. This is especially true in small and/or insular communities where one could face being shunned by family and friends. And in some parts of the world, abandonment of belief would bring a death sentence to be carried out by family members. Women traditionally have had the strongest ties to family compared to men: thus breaking those ties will be more difficult and more psychologically painful. While nobody has done a specific study of atheism and women, it is easy to guess that those women who have been raised in more traditional religious homes, with family and religion closely tied together, are most likely to fear of rejection and isolation if they announce their lack of faith. Some manage to break through, but not without significant loss. Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book, Infidel, shows the strength and courage it takes to leave one's faith and family. The psychologist Jill Myton also reveals not only her own struggles against religious indoctrination, but also documents the struggles of others who left one of the most secretive and exclusive religious cults in the West (see interview).

Humans have the capacity to show great strength, courage and integrity. Sometimes we need just a little push, to encourage us to question those ideas and long-held beliefs we hold most dearly. It is threatening to question not only our own beliefs, but those of our family and friends. We feel safe, even in falsehoods, as long as others believe the same. In order for women to move on from the archaic falsehoods of religion, dialogs need to be opened and our most intimate fears revealed. Women can abandon the tyranny of religion, but it will take courage - the same sort of courage that won women the right to vote, the right to work, and the right to steer their own destiny.


*Sources:

1. The Harris Poll: The Religious and Other Beliefs of Americans 2003.
2. Argyle & Beit-Hallahmi (1975). The social psychology of religion. London: Routledge and Kegan Paul.
3. Francis & Wilcox (1996) Religion and Gender Orientation. Personality and Individual Differences, 20, 119-121.


**Other mammals do not display exaggerated breast development, and it is not necessary for lactation.


Special thanks to Andy Thomson for sharing ideas about this topic.

R. Elisabeth Cornwell is an Assistant Professor of Research at the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs. Her research includes work in the area of hormones, pheromones, and sexual selection in humans. Her most recent paper can be found in Animal Behavior, regarding evidence in support of various theories of mate selection in humans. Most recently her work has involved differences between theist and atheists on a variety of psychological profiles.

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1. Comment #341706 by elfstoned on February 17, 2009 at 12:35 am

Excellent article, makes perfect sense!

Other Comments by elfstoned

2. Comment #341714 by Hypnos7 on February 17, 2009 at 12:44 am

 avatarIntuitively appealing, but this could be a "just-so" story.

How does Dr. Cornwall's model compare with the organic model where magical thinking is built into the brains of many people, male and female, and is resistant to external factors? The organic model makes predictions in fMRI and for the intransigence of religious belief.

What predictions does this model make? One might be that in societies where women can be economically self-sufficient there are fewer religious women, different from men of comparable education/earning power. I do not see this trend.

Other Comments by Hypnos7

3. Comment #341726 by andersemil on February 17, 2009 at 1:08 am

 avatarI agree very much that religion can create an illusion of kinship and security to the feeble mind and that this will be a major reason for people to stick with religion even today. We have all heard of or know people who claim to have a personal relationship with Jebus and the likes, and people who claim they have received guidance, strength and even comfort from their invisible playmates. And, as the article states, it makes perfect sense why women generally would be more vulnerable to these delusions.

Other Comments by andersemil

4. Comment #341755 by Chris Davis on February 17, 2009 at 3:20 am

 avatarOh noes! It's all women's fault!

I knew they weren't to be trusted - what with that apple thing and burning down the Ka'ba.

Other Comments by Chris Davis

5. Comment #341756 by rod-the-farmer on February 17, 2009 at 3:26 am

 avatarVery interesting, and answers many of the questions I myself have asked. This may help explain why many (most ?) of the "visions" had by xians seem to be by women, rather than men. I suppose one could draw up a map of the distribution of male & female atheists across a country. I can imagine that one would see a marked bias towards female atheists in larger cities, as opposed to rural communities, where the support groups would be smaller, and much more likely to involve a local church. Men, on the other hand, would be much more free to be atheists, not needing support groups to the same extent. Therefore not so biased towards cities.

Other Comments by rod-the-farmer

6. Comment #341758 by ColdFusionLazarus on February 17, 2009 at 3:31 am

 avatarI have 2 nit-picking minor comments and a question. Elisabeth Cornwell said "Yet, without women passing on faith, belief, and dogma, religion could not survive through the generations." This isn't quite true because Shakers abstained from reproduction and had to rely on continually gaining new conscripts to survive. And the religion survived quite well for some time.

She also said "males who risked upsetting the status quo and did so successfully would have gained an advantage in their own reproductive success. Females who tried the same would not" and also "Let the man take the risks, and if he succeeds choose him as a sexual partner". Surely, in previous tribal times, a successful woman gaining a leadership role could pick and choose whichever strong men take her fancy. If not in this role then she might not be chosen at all, or may have to breed with the lesser-males. So there is some advantage for taking a risk, although I admit the advantages are less.

Finally, "there needs to be something tangible to replace the support that it offers". I'm tempted to agree, but what should replace the role of religion in society[qm] It seems some of us are wired to have something like religion that can sometimes unite us in our efforts to support each other, and play a useful role as a supportive extended family. A phrase I heard recently is the "therapeutic community". A kind-of-church without god could give us this. But then without the central, all-powerful dictator us unherdable atheist-cats might well strongly disagree and dissipate.

What would work to replace some people's reliance upon a faith group[qm]

Other Comments by ColdFusionLazarus

7. Comment #341759 by SteveN on February 17, 2009 at 3:38 am

 avatarThe potential benefits (in evolutionary terms, that is) for a secretly philandering man appear obvious: more offspring to carry on the genes. The benefit for a philandering woman seem less obvious to me. There may be a benefit in having her own genes combining with genes from a variety of different fathers rather than just one, but the risks if discovered seem comparatively high (i.e. loss of support from the chosen mate). I don't know what the statistics are concerning the rates of 'sleeping around' for married (or mated) men and women in different societies, but I don't have the impression that women are particularly 'programmed' to be faithful. Am I missing something obvious here?

SteveN

Other Comments by SteveN

8. Comment #341761 by hungarianelephant on February 17, 2009 at 3:40 am

 avatarIt's ingenious, certainly.

At the risk of getting flamed, though, this rather misses something important: bitchiness. As a vast and sweeping generalisation, such as the author's, women do tend to seek out each other's support more than men, but they are also more ready than men to snipe at members of that same support group behind their backs. (I read recently that there are evolutionary reasons for this too - anyone have access to that?)

The point is, you don't actually need to buy into the group belief system. You only have to conform - not rock the boat. Following Prof. Cornwell's logic, a woman would gain maximum reproductive advantage by appearing to conform and then reproducing with the rebel's genes, much as married women are more likely to have sex with another man during their period of maximum fertility.

How do you show that actually being prone to religiosity, as opposed to being good at feigning it, is an advantage?

Other Comments by hungarianelephant

9. Comment #341762 by JohnC on February 17, 2009 at 3:41 am

 avatarDisclosure: I regard most evolutionary psychology that I've encountered as unscientific story-telling.

Some figures from Australia first. In the 2006 Census there were 9,799,249 males and 10,056,041 females counted (ratio 0.974). The numbers who are nominally Christian are 6,018,674 males and 6,667,160 females (0.903). But this discrepancy starts to dissolve somewhat when one realizes that the major gradient of nominal belief is age, with 55% of 25-34yo being nominal Christians but 78% of those aged 65-74, and while men outnumber women slightly in the younger cohort, women substantially outnumber men among older persons.

In other words, as far as nominal Christian belief goes there is not a large discrepancy between men and women.

Church attendance is a different matter, but less than 8% of Australians are in church in any week. Here, women outnumber men by at least 2:1 (as they do in both the US and Europe). And the age gradient is even steeper than for nominal belief.

So before we get carried away with Just So stories, let us recognise that women are not much more likely to "believe" but among the small number of (older) people who do attend church, women are indeed greatly over-represented.

Do we need a Darwinian explanation for this? I think more proximate reasons may be at hand. Of course, things may be different in Colorada Springs but if so that only makes a Darwinian explanation even less likely.

Other Comments by JohnC

10. Comment #341768 by epeeist on February 17, 2009 at 3:56 am

 avatarComment #341762 by JohnC:
Do we need a Darwinian explanation for this? I think more proximate reasons may be at hand. Of course, things may be different in Colorada Springs but if so that only makes a Darwinian explanation even less likely.
It would be interesting to look at the educational syllabus that the older believers were exposed to. How long ago was it that girls were taught needlework and cookery rather than science?

Certainly the school that my wife teaches at was started with a view to giving girls the same educational opportunities as boys.

Other Comments by epeeist

11. Comment #341774 by Raiko on February 17, 2009 at 4:05 am

 avatarIsn't it always like those who are the most scared (or have most reason to be scared) try to adapt the most in bad circumstances... and make those they care for adapt as well (i.e. children?)?

Other Comments by Raiko

12. Comment #341779 by JohnC on February 17, 2009 at 4:13 am

 avatar10. Comment #341768 by epeeist

Well clearly I believe culture and socialisation are more productive avenues of investigation (though here is not the place to deliver myself of some theory, even if I had one).

But I only had to look at the title for the irritation level to rise:
1. Let's examine the data before we declare "women bound to religion".
2. If you are going to take evolutionary theory outside the bounds of biology (whether it be psychology, history or sociology), you'd better have some iron-clad data to be working with before you submit even a very modest conclusion, let alone sweeping generalisations.

Other Comments by JohnC

13. Comment #341786 by DamnDirtyApe on February 17, 2009 at 4:18 am

...No one's commented that this was posted on suicidegirls.com

I thought that was a double win myself. wooooo hooooo...

Other Comments by DamnDirtyApe

14. Comment #341794 by Rosbif on February 17, 2009 at 4:27 am

 avatarThis still doesn't explain why it was a woman who believed the talking snake?

Other Comments by Rosbif

15. Comment #341795 by JohnC on February 17, 2009 at 4:34 am

 avatar
This still doesn't explain why it was a woman who believed the talking snake?

What about Adam, who without the benefit of evidence believed this preposterous story?

Other Comments by JohnC

16. Comment #341797 by Vaal on February 17, 2009 at 4:37 am

 avatarIn fact, it was the opposite in my case, as my father was the religious party in our household, and my mother was decidedly luke warm.

What does surprise me, and I have found even with intelligent well educated women, is their predisposition to believe in astrology, pseudo-science, pseudo-medicine, and the "spiritual". I have never managed to get my head around it. Perhaps it is down to different wiring in our brains, or are some women more susceptible to trying to see what they perceive is beyond the physical world?

Anyway, it is always fun to see the faces of anybody, male or female, when I reply to their "what sign are you?" as "Uranus".

EDIT: My apologies to the more rational women who visit this site :)

Other Comments by Vaal

17. Comment #341802 by ColdFusionLazarus on February 17, 2009 at 4:43 am

 avatarDamnDirtyApe,

Oh my! I had noticed it came from suicidegirls.com, but hadn't clicked on the link. I'd assumed it was a site that discussed how society in general should become more girl-friendly. I also assumed it would do this in a very sober manner. But this is quite racey! "wooooo hooooo" indeed :-S

Other Comments by ColdFusionLazarus

18. Comment #341804 by DamnDirtyApe on February 17, 2009 at 4:47 am

Well, I hope it corrects some people's misconceptions about feminists - they are THAT AWESOME.

Other Comments by DamnDirtyApe

19. Comment #341809 by JohnC on February 17, 2009 at 4:50 am

 avatar
16. Comment #341797 by Vaal
What does surprise me, and I have found even with intelligent well educated women, is their preposition [sic] to believe in Astrology, pseudo-science, pseudo-medicine, and the "spiritual".


Data, please! The Census I am quoting from indicates the opposite, with twice as many men as women in the category that includes "New Age".

Other Comments by JohnC

20. Comment #341812 by Vaal on February 17, 2009 at 4:56 am

 avatarJohnC

That is interesting. However, I have to say from a personal perspective, that I have found the opposite to be true. In fact, when my mother recruited an astrologer to determine if she should leave my father, he looked decidedly uncomfortable when introduced to her burly rugby playing 17 year old son, when introduced as a keen amateur astronomer.

Other Comments by Vaal

21. Comment #341818 by JohnC on February 17, 2009 at 5:01 am

 avatarVaal,

This site is about reason and evidence vs unsupported belief. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but don't expect to make empirical statements (particularly controversial ones) without being challenged. Data, please -- anecdote doesn't pass muster.

Other Comments by JohnC

22. Comment #341824 by gos on February 17, 2009 at 5:07 am

 avatarhungarianelephant:
How do you show that actually being prone to religiosity, as opposed to being good at feigning it, is an advantage?


Groups of animals almost logically demand arms races in deception and perception:
1) Animals living in groups will favor genes for reciprocal altruism.
2) Genes that mimic altruistic behavior in a manner that is less costly than actual altruism (deception) will do better than genes that dictate actual altruism.
3) Given some level of deception, genes that are better at spotting the freeloaders (perception), will do better than genes that aren't.

This gets us to a group of people that both have genes for deceiving and perceiving deception. They have also evolved means to communicate their intents.

I posit that it is more difficult to perceive that a person is deceiving you, especially if the deception is regarding their intent, if that person herself believes that they are being honest. And so, genes that promote self-deception along with deception become more common.

In this way, evolution will select for a person who strikes the best balance between lying to others and appearing honest (sort of like politics). If those who sincerely believe their own bullshit appear more honest than those who don't (and I think that's true), then the self-deluded swindler should be an archetypal behavior pattern in all human groups. Preacher, anyone?

Other Comments by gos

23. Comment #341825 by sunbeamforjesus on February 17, 2009 at 5:09 am

A good article but doesn't really explain the belief side of women's adherence to faith.The social/group protection theory works, but is she suggesting women belong for these reasons or do they really believe the nonsense?
I am married to a highly intelligent and successful woman who slightly disapproves of the atheistic views of myself and my 2 teenage sons.This is because she believes them to confrontational and therefore anti-social.So far so good, but were she to be asked for her actual belief in a deity she would likely hedge her bets rather than admit outright disbelief.
Could it be that upbringing(I was not going to say inculcation although it must be implied)imprints more on women than men?
Is there any documentation on this?

Other Comments by sunbeamforjesus

24. Comment #341832 by A. Noyd on February 17, 2009 at 5:17 am

12. Comment #341779 by JohnC
If you are going to take evolutionary theory outside the bounds of biology (whether it be psychology, history or sociology), you'd better have some iron-clad data to be working with before you submit even a very modest conclusion, let alone sweeping generalisations.


Interesting article by David J. Buller from January 2009's Scientific American with some criticisms of evolutionary psychology.

And while I'm sure it's terribly gauche, I'd like to quote myself from a tangent in another thread which I think is more relevant here:
Another consideration for the religiosity of women is that it's one of the few forms of ecstasy and emotional succor that is permitted to women without criticism. It's still the general belief among many that women shouldn't find great passion in sex or intellectual pursuits or art. Strong religious convictions combined with certain religious practices can bring about similar states of ecstasy. Even a repressive religion can bring pleasure and relief to a woman with no other such source.


It doesn't contradict the author's proposition, but it's something I've observed myself (anecdotal, yes, I know), especially in women who are part of more repressive faiths, but even in supposedly woman-friendly neo-pagan or new-age communities. Perhaps women are not merely trading safety for victimhood, but are carving out a more personal place for that sort of pleasure all humans derive from intense experience while staying within the bounds of convention.

Edit: Good grief, the comment editor is in severe disagreement with me on the formatting of my links.

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25. Comment #341844 by Stella on February 17, 2009 at 5:30 am

 avatarSorry, I can't take seriously anything linked from Suicide Girls.

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26. Comment #341846 by Denial on February 17, 2009 at 5:30 am

This theory fails to account for the fact that in the catholic "consecrated life" (monks and nuns), an environment devoid of reproduction decisions, nuns outnumber monks 4 to 1. For this case, it can only resort to its claim of "deep psychological needs", which are so ill-defined they are basically non-falsifiable, i.e. unscientific.

Much like some other psychological and most cognitive theories of religion, its "psychological needs" should predict constant religious innovation among non-religious populations. This prediction is usually omitted because it is so obviously false, but it follows fairly logically from most theories of this type. In this case, the problem is explained away with "strength and courage", not common psychological measures but typical moral ones - and undefined/non-falsifiable as well.

A model that works much better is the rational choice theory of religion. It explains religious behaviour as investment in relationships with supernatural agents for expected benefits. This investment is dependent on trust in the supernatural agent (which is socially reinforced), on what the religion promises and on how expensive its costs are. This model expects people to act rationally within the scope of their knowledge and observation (including religious convictions), i.e. it expects people to always try to get more for less. So religious behaviour takes place if and when it seems to be the more beneficial way of spending one's time. This means people who earn a lot per hour exhibit less religious behaviour than poor people. This in turn explains why country-folk are more religious than city dwellers, old (and especially retired) people are more religious than young ones - and women are more religious than men. In each case, it is a matter of whether or not more attractive ways of "spending" one's time are available.

The book is "Acts of Faith" by Stark and Bainbridge. It explains a lot of aspects of the religion landscape that cognitive theories can't, such as why religions tend to become less expensive sacrifice-wise over the centuries, why monotheism is more successful than polytheism or why there are no big churches of magic. I strongly recommend it to those who seek in-depth scholarship rather than just plausible stories with moral tidbits.

Other Comments by Denial

27. Comment #341848 by Vaal on February 17, 2009 at 5:36 am

 avatar21. Comment #341818 by JohnC

Yes, you are right John, it is anecdotal, but in my 50 years of life and living in several different countries and cultures, I have found that it is overwhelmingly females who find solace in astrology and are interested in the "spiritual" side of life. I also see evidence of that in most book stores or libraries I visit, as it is literature that is decidedly gender related. I would be interested in what other people here on this site have experienced in their lives, although I suppose it depends on what circles one subscribes to.

However, as you correctly said, this is anecdotal, and I was just showing an interest based on my own life experiences, but you have me interested and intrigued now, and I will see if I can find some hard evidence that either supports my observations, or otherwise.

Other Comments by Vaal

28. Comment #341853 by JohnC on February 17, 2009 at 5:43 am

 avatarA. Noyd,

Thanks for Buller link. Should be compulsory reading for anyone feeling attracted to evolutionary psychology. Tooby and Cosmides have been skewered several times, including by the late Steve Gould. Pinker's Blank Slate (the only one I've read of his) is a disgrace to scientific discourse, IMHO, sanctifying all sorts of opinions with selective snippets from a spotty literature.

Other Comments by JohnC

29. Comment #341863 by scottishgeologist on February 17, 2009 at 6:03 am

 avatarJohnC's figures are interesting.

I wonder who the figures for church gender ratios break down according to theological emphasis

Evangelical clappy happy churches I SUSPECT have a more balanced ratio

Liberal churches may well have a higher ratio of women

Another thing I have experienced is that it is mainly the evangie churches that get "gender specific" groups going, like womens bible study groups and mens "prayer breakfasts"

Never could understand this desire to create artificial divisions like this. After all, doesnt the bible teach that all are equal "in Christ Jesus"

Muslims also have separate services for men and women. Maybe the difference betwen these two faiths isnt as great as it is portrayed...

:-))
SG

Other Comments by scottishgeologist

30. Comment #341864 by NewEnglandBob on February 17, 2009 at 6:05 am

 avatar
What would work to replace some people's reliance upon a faith group?


I see a replacement, anecdotally, in the current younger generation (early to mid 20s). There seems to be a knitting together of friends into support groups that seems to extend into marriage years.

Someone should do a study on this in various geographical areas. I may possibly see this replacement only because I live in a progressive area of people with higher education.

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31. Comment #341878 by Layla Nasreddin on February 17, 2009 at 6:21 am

 avatarI'm not sure I am convinced; certainly, the social side of religion forms a large part of its appeal and "retention factor", but what of the rest of it? What about the internal, "spiritual" side, as A. Noyd mentions? Also, it's worth noting that minority groups (African-Americans, Latinos), in America, at least, also tend to be more religious than whites, suggesting that socioeconomic status is also a factor.

The problem with statements like these ("Why are women so willing to give in to religious dogma and subject themselves to the degradations often inflicted upon them?" and "Why do women today continue to fall victim to an archaic system of beliefs that foster misogynistic behavior?") is that they can lend themselves to all sorts of unpleasant generalizations ("it's because women are more irrational/emotional/feeble-minded"). Also, to me it seems to take the generalized "male" propensity to be less religious as the "norm", treating the feminine "propensity for religion" as something that is therefore "deviant" or "defective". There is the risk of denouncing religion as misogynistic, but then not taking what women say they get out of it (or not) seriously because "women are emotional" or because occupations or activities that are more dominated by women are taken less seriously or seen as less important. (Sorry, that's my hardcore feminist side talking!)

That said, it's very interesting how much women contribute to the perpetuation of even grossly misogynistic religions. I get a bit miffed when people say that covering women is something that "men" do to "women" -- not always! Often it's something that women do to women, and some women internalize it enough to WANT to cover themselves. It's more complex than "men" oppressing "women", and I'm glad to see the article doesn't fall into that grossly oversimplified way of looking at it.

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32. Comment #341880 by JohnC on February 17, 2009 at 6:23 am

 avatarI should reinforce that in quoting Australian Census and other figures I am not suggesting that this pattern holds everywhere. Indeed, as distinct from evolutionary psychology, I would expect very different patterns in different cultural settings. There is no universal sex difference here rooted in "human nature".

For instance, in the Australian Anglican Church in the 1980s the ratio of women to men attenders was 45 men to 55 women. By 2001 this was 37 men to 63 women. This change is explicable in terms of the rapidly changing demography of that denomination, which has itself been shaped by analysable social factors.

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33. Comment #341881 by rod-the-farmer on February 17, 2009 at 6:29 am

 avatarVaal, I will see your anecdote, and raise you a stereotype. I agree with you, my experience has been that women are far more interested in things "spiritual" and astrology. If you were to ask someone which friend they can remember going to a palm reader, chances are very good it was a female. Who has more self-help books on their shelves at home ?

But even with all this support business, I cannot for the life of me understand why women accept the abuse and second-class status mandated by so many of the desert religions and their offshoots. If I were a female of the species, anyone who tried that sort of stuff on me would get first a verbal challenge, then something more physical.

I said in a previous post (possibly not here) that foreign soldiers serving in Afghanistan should have a sign on their vehicles, offering safe passage and immediate immigrant status to any female who wishes an education without risk of being attacked. But the Afghan government would probably not approve.

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34. Comment #341882 by hungarianelephant on February 17, 2009 at 6:29 am

 avatar22. Comment #341824 by gos
I posit that it is more difficult to perceive that a person is deceiving you, especially if the deception is regarding their intent, if that person herself believes that they are being honest. And so, genes that promote self-deception along with deception become more common.

In this way, evolution will select for a person who strikes the best balance between lying to others and appearing honest (sort of like politics). If those who sincerely believe their own bullshit appear more honest than those who don't (and I think that's true), then the self-deluded swindler should be an archetypal behavior pattern in all human groups. Preacher, anyone?

Thanks for this, gos. Tony Blair, anyone?

I'm trying to get my head around what you are saying. Applying this to the Cornwell example of a support network, it seems to imply that evolution would select those who genuinely believe that they are supportive of the others, even if they in fact bitch about them behind their backs - perhaps rationalising that they are really protecting the interests of the group. (The bitchiness itself is said to arise from competition for mates.)

I can see how preachers arise from that, but what I don't get is why that would lead to religiosity - submissive behaviour - in everyone else. Or are you suggesting that religiosity might be a misfire of selected self-deception?

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35. Comment #341886 by squinky on February 17, 2009 at 6:44 am

 avatarEvolutionary psychology is both intriguing and frustrating simultaneously because it sounds so plausible but might be completely wrong. Where's the testable hypothesis'

Here's another interpretation of the data:
For humans to evolve large brains, they needed access to a diet rich in fat and protein because the brain is so metabolically demanding. This meant that special emphasis was given to males who provided this sustenance by hunting (agriculture alone is not a substitute) and it's no accident that humans began as hunter-gatherers. Women became dependent on the males of their society to sustain pregnancy, feed their young after nursing stopped, and successfully spread their genes. Eventually, this patriarchal system of society became codified in a belief system of a male sky-God that women believed was the ultimate provider and authoritative figure. Thus women have evolved 'daddy issues' at several levels and remain acutely susceptible to patriarchal manipulation and have an innate need for religion. (pure crap wouldn't you say')

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36. Comment #341887 by CaptainMandate on February 17, 2009 at 6:45 am

 avatarbrought up as a christian, like many other cases here no doubt, it was my mother who enforced religion in my brother and I. dad was also a catholic but don't think he ever cared about my belifs

going purely anecdotal myself I'd say this article does make sense to a point but it didn't suggest why women would want to believe more than men

from my own experience, I grew up with my mother doing the raising while father worked (quite normal for the time and throughout history) and I accept bringing children up is hard work.

however, many of us have been told to behave a certain way without being given an acceptable reason why. chances are it's because mum's knackered and just wants us to shut up and trying to reason with children is no way to bring them up so I reckon women's susceptibility to a religious way of life may well stem from the "wait til your father gets home" school of child-rearing

Religion instils control as long as it's indoctrinated early. maybe religious women seem more attractive to men. they're more modest so less likely to be a bad relationship investment and they already have the tools to bring up children

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37. Comment #341893 by mrgoodjob on February 17, 2009 at 6:55 am

"Sometimes we need just a little push, to encourage us to question those ideas and long-held beliefs we hold most dearly."


Or more like a shove.

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38. Comment #341897 by JohnC on February 17, 2009 at 7:01 am

 avatarThe problem, squinky, is that people are generating hypotheses to explain a "fact" (women are more spiritual, religious, etc) that has not only not been established but is indeed contradicted by cross-cultural evidence.

* There are plenty of hunter gatherer societies where men have a near monopoly on the spiritual, magical realm -- including ecstatic experience.
* Sky gods seem to be a Neolithic invention, and the early Christian Church stands out as really the first such religion where women constituted a large number (perhaps majority) of participating believers. [The Australian Census shows, btw, more men than women identifying as Muslim.]
* In contemporary Western societies it is by no means clear that there are more significantly more women believers than men, though as belief levels fall it appears that church attendance is increasingly skewing the sex ratio towards women. This surely demands a social (not biological) explanation.

etc, etc

All these contentions are amenable to proper empirical investigation. More data, less opinion, please people.

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39. Comment #341898 by VanYoungman on February 17, 2009 at 7:05 am

 avatarAn excellent article.

And ColdFusionLazarus, your Shaker Argument actually proves her point. They went extinct.

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40. Comment #341901 by epeeist on February 17, 2009 at 7:07 am

 avatarComment #341897 by JohnC:
* There are plenty of hunter gatherer societies where men have a near monopoly on the spiritual, magical realm -- including ecstatic experience.
But there also seem to have been primitive peoples which were matriarchal and believed in a "Great Goddess", sometimes in triune form. Try James Frazer and Robert Graves for details.

One also might want to look at the work that is being done in feminist epistemology - http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/feminist-social-epistemology/

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41. Comment #341907 by SilentMike on February 17, 2009 at 7:19 am

JohnC

Some statistics from the UK:
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=955

Notice the second chart:
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/images/charts/955a.gif

UK men are more likely than UK women of all age groups to mark "no religion".

I'm not getting into the whole EP debate. I'm just presenting a datum. You said there was no data but only anecdotes. Here's some data.


EDIT: also see this
http://www.gc.cuny.edu/faculty/research_studies/aris.pdf

Under Exhibit 11 you see a chart. Females are a majority in most religious groups and a minority in the "no religion" group in the US. The only screaming exceptions to this rule in the US are Islam and some other very small religious groups.

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42. Comment #341908 by JohnC on February 17, 2009 at 7:27 am

 avatarepeeist,

Goddess worship, where we have evidence, is not inconsistent with male monopoly of religious sentiment/practice.

[OT: don't get me started on feminist epistemology; makes as much sense as feminist physics or Afro-American astronomy :-)]

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43. Comment #341909 by Crazycharlie on February 17, 2009 at 7:28 am

 avatarDenial, I have to disagree with your first point. There are about a billion catholics in the world, of which only a tiny fraction are priests & nuns. I would tend to think Cornwell is right. If women are drawn to religion it would explain why nuns outnumber monks & priests 4 to 1, it's just that in a small number of women(nuns) their drive towards religion overrides any drive towards reproduction.

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44. Comment #341912 by hungarianelephant on February 17, 2009 at 7:35 am

 avatar41. Comment #341907 by SilentMike
UK men are more likely than UK women of all age groups to mark "no religion".

It's pretty limited data, though. For starters, 56/44 (men/women non-religious) is hardly a huge split. In Ireland, they'd make you vote again, at least if the 56 got the wrong answer.

It's also based on a rather unreliable data point - which box you ticked on a census form. We know for a fact that millions of people who ticked "C of E" only see the inside of a church at weddings and funerals. All the M/F discrepancy shows is a difference in box-ticking, and this may or may not be reflected in actual religious conviction and behaviour.

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45. Comment #341913 by Corneel on February 17, 2009 at 7:39 am

In addition to SilentMike's post

Results from Eurobarometer Poll 2005 (all EU and EFTA countries offical EU candidate countries)
% that answered "I believe there is a God" when ask the question which statement came closest to their beliefs
A. I believe there is a God
B. I believe there is some sort of spirit or life force
C. I don't believe there is some sort of spirit, God or life force.

Women 58%
Men 45%

http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/archives/ebs/ebs_225_report_en.pdf

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46. Comment #341914 by SilentMike on February 17, 2009 at 7:40 am

Got another one:

http://2thinkforums.org/anyboard/archive/23901.html

You know I was worried because in the beginning I couldn't find any statistics. But here they be.

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47. Comment #341915 by hungarianelephant on February 17, 2009 at 7:40 am

 avatar43. Comment #341909 by Crazycharlie
If women are drawn to religion it would explian why nuns outnumber preists 4 to 1,it's just that in a small number of women their drive twards religion overides any drive twards reproduction.

Not really. In the heyday of Catholicism, it was pretty easy to become a nun, whereas priests were selected from the brightest and best. It was tremendously prestigious to have a priest in your family. (And a disgrace upon your family if he left the priesthood, as my wife's cousin found.) You would expect a substantial discrepancy in the numbers of priests and nuns without any biological explanation.

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48. Comment #341918 by JohnC on February 17, 2009 at 7:43 am

 avatarComment #341907 by SilentMike

The overall UK profile looks rather similar to that of Australia (both of which are very different from the US, thank Zeus).

On the "No Religion" question, the Australian figures are: males 1,976,050 (20.17%), females 1,730,509 (17.21%, total 3,706,556 (18.67%). The actual difference is probably somewhat less given the age gradient. In any case, it is not large, and is closing over time (as is also indicated by the UK demography).

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49. Comment #341920 by epeeist on February 17, 2009 at 7:44 am

 avatarComment #341908 by JohnC:
[OT: don't get me started on feminist epistemology; makes as much sense as feminist physics or Afro-American astronomy :-)]
Wife and two daughters, it is a point of view I have to promote :yes:

I mostly agree with you, however have you read Kathleen Okrulhlik's Gender and the Biological Sciences. This does make some sensible points (though it is OT for the discussion).

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50. Comment #341923 by SilentMike on February 17, 2009 at 7:51 am

49. Comment #341918 by JohnC

It isn't very impressive that it's closing over time. As a group becomes very big, there can't very well be 10 times as many women than men in it can there? If, as an example, 12% of men are Catholics, then it just won't work. The point is that there are more irreligious men than irreligious women in all age cathegories in the UK. This is a just a plain fact, unless we have a very extreem case of bad luck in choosing the surveyed people. There's no denying it.

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