1. Comment #390486 by phyzit13 on June 23, 2009 at 11:53 am

Michael Shermer is awesome and always shares a great perspective on everything. I plan on using this kit all the time now!

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2. Comment #390487 by mgjinich on June 23, 2009 at 11:53 am

Beautiful!!!!!! It couldn't be clearer and better explained!!!!
Good job.

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3. Comment #390489 by Stafford Gordon on June 23, 2009 at 11:55 am

This must now be among the best websites in existance; well done with this particular contribution Josh.

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4. Comment #390492 by DoobyTheCat on June 23, 2009 at 12:05 pm

Fantastic! Great job Josh and company.
Hopefully there will be more!

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5. Comment #390494 by HandyGeek on June 23, 2009 at 12:13 pm

Shermer's work is always so accessible. Love it.

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6. Comment #390495 by mordacious1 on June 23, 2009 at 12:18 pm

Wow! Kudos to Maureen and Josh...this was primo!

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7. Comment #390498 by MichelleZB on June 23, 2009 at 12:37 pm

Haven't watched yet... sounds great. But have they given credit to Carl Sagan, originator of the Baloney Detection Kit? I hope so.

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8. Comment #390500 by admin on June 23, 2009 at 12:41 pm

Yes, Shermer certainly credits Sagan for the Baloney Detection Kit.

Josh

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9. Comment #390501 by ggab7768 on June 23, 2009 at 12:42 pm

I've always liked Michael,but with all the Templeton crap bouncing around lately, I wonder if his feelings on them are the same.
Does anyone know if he still defends them?

MichelleZB#390498
Yes, credit is given.

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10. Comment #390502 by The Hogfather on June 23, 2009 at 12:49 pm

Great stuff. I particularly liked the cold fusion example on point 3.

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11. Comment #390504 by mattincinci on June 23, 2009 at 12:52 pm

great video...worth the donation :)

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12. Comment #390509 by PoliticallyConcerned on June 23, 2009 at 1:06 pm

Absolutely awesome. Fantastic video. I loved it.

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13. Comment #390514 by FatherNature on June 23, 2009 at 1:37 pm

Excellent work. This video should be shown in every school. I'm happy to donate to the cause.

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14. Comment #390523 by Delsolar16 on June 23, 2009 at 2:01 pm

I think something that is vital for the public to understand that isn't mentioned in this video is that claims must be falsifiable. Why is that not part of this detection kit?

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15. Comment #390525 by firstelder_d on June 23, 2009 at 2:06 pm

13. Comment #390514 by FatherNature
Especially every Sunday school

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16. Comment #390529 by Ewald on June 23, 2009 at 2:15 pm

- Great, high-quality, lucid, reason-based content
- 720p video, downloaded at a steady 8.5 MB/s, playback without problems on Linux

If this is what my money is used for, I feel even better sustaining my monthly donation to the RDFRS. Clearly worthwhile.

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17. Comment #390531 by BigChiefRainInFace on June 23, 2009 at 2:20 pm

I have to say, the animation, music and overall production do make a difference in the impact of the material. We need more of this stuff, bite-sized and sharp.

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18. Comment #390532 by blitz442 on June 23, 2009 at 2:23 pm

14. Comment #390523 by Delsolar16


Point #5 covers falsification I think.

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19. Comment #390534 by Ewald on June 23, 2009 at 2:46 pm

* minor spoiler warning ;) *

14. Comment #390523 by Delsolar16 on June 23, 2009 at 2:01 pm
I think something that is vital for the public to understand that isn't mentioned in this video is that claims must be falsifiable. Why is that not part of this detection kit?

18. Comment #390532 by blitz442 on June 23, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Point #5 covers falsification I think.

Indeed, point #5 "Has anyone tried to disprove the claim?" covers falsification, especially in the light of point #7 "Is the claimant playing by the rules of science?" and point #8 "Is the claimant providing positive evidence?".
Aside from the Kit in general, especially these points bring with them that claims must be falsifiable (but feel free to prove me wrong :) )

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20. Comment #390539 by SharonMcT on June 23, 2009 at 3:00 pm

Excellent video. Smashing job, Josh and crew. I'll be passing this along to others and I'm very happy to know that there will be more like this soon.

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21. Comment #390541 by MarshallEvans on June 23, 2009 at 3:08 pm

I just donated to the RDF by buying all the remaining books of Richard Dawkins (through this website) that I didn't have. The only problem was that I didn't have the option to buy hardbacks. Ohh well, I can now say that I have all of Dawkin's books - and I have never done that with any author before.

Cheers!! *raising a glass of wine to all*

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22. Comment #390545 by Mayhemm on June 23, 2009 at 3:14 pm

A video like this may help for most pseudo-science like Tarot and alternative medicine. Unfortunately, I don't think it will help counter anti-science movements (like creationism) all that well because it assumes the person inquiring plays by the rules (point #7). For instance, they consider the Bible to be the ultimate source.

Also, some of Shermer's answers seem improvised or off-the-cuff and weren't really that convincing. It almost seems like a spontaneous interview at times rather than a deliberate video intended for distribution. The points are all valid, but I think a better case could be made for some of them .

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23. Comment #390549 by Steve Zara on June 23, 2009 at 3:32 pm

Outstanding. In so many ways.

Good lighting, good direction, good pacing, good cuts, good (subtle) use of music and animation, great, great content. This really is a professional documentary-level video: something I would expect to find on the BBC, for example. This is exactly the kind of high-quality resource we need here.

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24. Comment #390550 by prolibertas on June 23, 2009 at 3:42 pm

I don't know if point #5: 'Has anyone tried to disprove the claim' really covers falsifiability like it should. People can try to disprove the existence of magical elves, but upon failing to do so, would we be right to say 'Yes, they HAVE tried to disprove magical elves, and they've failed- therefore belief in magical elves is valid'. The claim has to be falsifiable in the first place before someone tries to falsify it.

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25. Comment #390553 by Mark Jones on June 23, 2009 at 3:50 pm

An excellent job - thanks to Michael, RDF and Josh.

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26. Comment #390554 by KRKBAB on June 23, 2009 at 3:57 pm

Prolibertas- I get what you're saying, but it's a Baloney Detection Kit. It's for general use and obviously not a definitive science procedure.

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27. Comment #390555 by evilgenius on June 23, 2009 at 3:58 pm

The video was great in many ways but I sometimes hear things that really make we wonder "what data is he/she referring to?" I have read both sides of the global warming claims for instance and though he does not state it emphatically, he seems to say that the data he reads points to man causing global warming where as the data that I read does not. I am not trying to start an argument here, but merely trying to understand what he was saying and why he would use that in his argument to defend the detection kit. Just curious...

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28. Comment #390556 by Steve Zara on June 23, 2009 at 4:00 pm

Comment #390555 by evilgenius

where as the data that I read does not.

Then the video, and almost everything it has said, has had no impact on you at all.

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29. Comment #390557 by KRKBAB on June 23, 2009 at 4:01 pm

I mean, how serious can you critique something with the word "Baloney" in it? I'm surprised no one yet asked why isn't it a Bologna Detection Kit.

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30. Comment #390561 by MarcKeys on June 23, 2009 at 4:08 pm

Pretty fucking nice.

Production values were top notch as well, sexual almost.

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31. Comment #390564 by KRKBAB on June 23, 2009 at 4:12 pm

evilgenius- Did you miss the "prepoderance of evidence" part? Are you seriously suggesting the preponderance of evidence points towards the current climate change scenario NOT being human induced? Did you use all of the other points of the Baloney Detection Kit to judge the evidence you're talking about?

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32. Comment #390565 by MarshallEvans on June 23, 2009 at 4:15 pm

I don't know if point #5: 'Has anyone tried to disprove the claim' really covers falsifiability like it should. People can try to disprove the existence of magical elves, but upon failing to do so, would we be right to say 'Yes, they HAVE tried to disprove magical elves, and they've failed- therefore belief in magical elves is valid'. The claim has to be falsifiable in the first place before someone tries to falsify it.

What this point is getting at is Karl Poppers "falsifiability". Though I agree that the way it was presented here was probably not all that great, it is still valid. If you are unable to try to falsify your own hypothesis, or worse yet if you strengthen your hypothesis against falsification, then your hypothesis will either be weak or it will die the death of a thousand qualifications (rendering it meaningless).

No matter what the claim, it is most strengthened if it predicts something which can be tested (so it has the possibiliy of being falsified). Evolution has done this so many times that I am just as baffled as Dawkins at the genius of Darwin to have provided a theory which would predict things like the shared genetics of the human genome with our ape like causins (something we have only recently tested with precision).

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33. Comment #390566 by ricklend on June 23, 2009 at 4:16 pm

Thank you for the Shermer Baloney Detection Kit.

R. Dawkins, C. Hitchens,S. Harris along with Carl Sagan, Bart Ehrman and M. Shermer are all doing their part (even though C. Sagan is no longer with us) to make the world a better and more peaceful place to live.

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34. Comment #390567 by KRKBAB on June 23, 2009 at 4:19 pm

ricklend- Carl Sagan is not around anymore but his influence sure is! He helped open my eyes, along with Joseph Campbell and Richard Dawkins.

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35. Comment #390569 by SurfDude on June 23, 2009 at 4:24 pm

I either call poe on "evilgenius", or moron.

"I have read both sides of the global warming claims for instance and though he does not state it emphatically, he seems to say that the data he reads points to man causing global warming where as the data that I read does not."

If this is the case then you may well have read both sides of the "claims", but have more than likely cherry-picked the conclusions to suit your own agenda.

See Point 6 of the Baloney Detection Kit:
"Where does the preponderance of evidence point?"

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36. Comment #390570 by SurfDude on June 23, 2009 at 4:25 pm

Regarding the video, I thought it was fabulous. I shall be sending a link to everyone I know and asking them to make this compulsory viewing for their children.

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37. Comment #390573 by MarshallEvans on June 23, 2009 at 4:37 pm

In response to post 27, Comment #390555 by evilgenius on June 23, 2009 at 3:58 pm...

I have read both sides of the global warming claims for instance and though he does not state it emphatically, he seems to say that the data he reads points to man causing global warming where as the data that I read does not.

Where are you getting your data? Do you have any peer reviewed research that is critical of anthropogenic effects on global warming? If you do, then post them!! In any case I have a link that I am posting for a peer reviewed report which contains facts and research, not cherry picked data, which concludes the things you seem to have blocked/filtered from the data that you "read" (sorry, but I have grown impatient with people that can't do their own research):

http://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/abstracts/2008/Lean_Rind.html

The question is, however, why is it that I am able to have enough free time to find stuff like this and yet some people just can't do it?

Other Comments by MarshallEvans

38. Comment #390574 by Quine on June 23, 2009 at 4:38 pm

Great job, Josh. Thank you and your crew for this.

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39. Comment #390576 by DWLehning on June 23, 2009 at 4:39 pm

This is excellent! Thank you for sharing it.

I happen to take Skeptic magazine in addition to Skeptical Inquirer and both are excellent publications.

I also agree with SurfDude; this should shown in all elementary school science classes.

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40. Comment #390577 by evilgenius on June 23, 2009 at 4:40 pm

Wow! Ask a simple question and get a lot of negative response. I merely asked what he was trying to say with the comments on global warming. Apparently asking questions is not allowed. I will try this a different way if that will be allowed without a public flogging. I did not hear him say in the video that man is the one and only cause of global warming, but I wanted to understand what he meant by his comments. So far it seems that you all believe that to be true, but I was merely asking what he meant in the video.

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41. Comment #390578 by rebby on June 23, 2009 at 4:50 pm

Wow! The group-think on this board is ferocious. Someone (evilgenius) poses a slightly challenging statement (see baloney detection kit item #6) and IMMEDIATELY you have folks jumping down his thoat. Grow some intellectual balls and, perhaps, some humility. These issues are NOT settled and we need open inquiry, not dogma to move forward.

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42. Comment #390579 by Enlightenme.. on June 23, 2009 at 4:50 pm

Over 340 meg delivered in around 5 minutes, this must be the fastest download I've ever experienced.
Outstanding.

Edit - stumped up 3 paypal quids right now!

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43. Comment #390580 by admin on June 23, 2009 at 4:53 pm

I'm glad to see our new media hosting service working so well. We're now hosting our media through cloud files on mosso.com , if anyone is curious.

Thanks to all for the great response. I'm very excited to have this video out on the web now, and can't wait to bring everyone the next installments. Expect to see PZ and Brian Greene in RDF TV installments over the next few months.

Josh

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44. Comment #390581 by MarshallEvans on June 23, 2009 at 4:54 pm

Wow! Ask a simple question and get a lot of negative response.... So far it seems that you all believe that to be true, but I was merely asking what he meant in the video.

I think I provided sufficient evidence to suggest that this isn't just a "belief"... but you still have not. Now I must ask if maybe you aren't just simply another troll?? Where is the data that you said you were "reading"?

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45. Comment #390583 by SurfDude on June 23, 2009 at 4:56 pm

rebby,

Read evilgenius' post again, specifically this part

.... where as the data that I read does not.

Followed by a specific reference to Baloney Point 6. Oh the irony. I wasn't challenging his view on global warming, I was attacking the wording of his statement about evidence.

Do you understand the criticism now, or would you like to pull another straw-man out of your ass to go with your "group-think" accusation?

Intellectual balls and humility? Projection much?

Other Comments by SurfDude

46. Comment #390584 by phil rimmer on June 23, 2009 at 4:57 pm

Comment #390577 by evilgenius


EDIT My comment removed after clarification.

Very smooth work Josh and team. Well done and thanks. I won't rest now until I see RDF TV on my cable service. It'd neutralise the God Channel and then some.

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47. Comment #390585 by Tack on June 23, 2009 at 5:07 pm

Josh,

Please consider making future videos streamable (by generating a hinted .mov file). This way I don't have to wait the 5 minutes to download before playing on my tv. :)

P.S. The convenient donation option is very nice. Simple, unobtrusive, non-beggy. I'm happy to kick $10 when it's that easy.

P.P.S. Throughput is rocking! A wonderful improvement.

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48. Comment #390587 by Steve Zara on June 23, 2009 at 5:09 pm

Comment #390580 by admin

I'm glad to see our new media hosting service working so well. We're now hosting our media through cloud files on mosso.com , if anyone is curious.

I am an old developer, who has only in the past few months started to look into 'cloud computing'. I can see its value. I know that Google, Microsoft and Amazon offer cloud resources. It will be interesting to see how your 'mosso.com' use works out. I would be interested to know why you chose this company.

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49. Comment #390588 by SurfDude on June 23, 2009 at 5:09 pm

Incidentally, several of the anthropogenic global warming deniers I know exhibit a disturbing reverence for their Range Rovers. Causal?

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50. Comment #390590 by TheCRZA on June 23, 2009 at 5:13 pm

This is just really really good. Plain and simple.

Let's have some more RDFtv please!

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