Skip to Main Content (access key 1)
Skip to Search (access key 2)
Skip to Search GO (access key 3)
Skip to comments (access key 4)
Skip to navigation (access key 5)
Skip to top of page (access key 6)
Thursday, December 14, 2006 | Reason : In the News | print version Print | Comments

Document Blaming 'The God Delusion'

by Charles Demers

Thanks to Martin Rule for alerting us to this piece.

Reposted from TheTyee.ca:
http://thetyee.ca/Books/2006/12/14/Dawkins/

With a four-headed fundamentalist hydra rending progressive social movements, co-opting populist anger, and marginalizing women and religious minorities around the world, one would expect a warm reaction among the liberal left to The God Delusion, Richard Dawkins's moving and articulate plea for reason, skepticism and Enlightenment values. Instead, Dawkins is being treated like a party guest offering Moses a golden calf for his birthday, or the purveyor of a beer-baked ham at a Saudi potluck.

Dawkins is a Darwinian scientist and an essayist on popular science often mentioned in the same breath as the late and still-missed Stephen Jay Gould. His symmetry with Gould lay not only in the fact that both men sold millions of books making evolutionary theory accessible, but also because they represented different theories within Darwinism itself. Dawkins is an exponent of an (appropriately) unorthodox, gene-centred theory of evolution, expounded in his bestseller The Selfish Gene. Enron kingpin Jeff Skilling cited The Selfish Gene as his favourite book, leaving the "mortified" Dawkins to explain in his new book that the stress is on 'gene,' not 'selfish.'

The God Delusion is a declaration of secular humanism that excoriates religion, both moderate and extreme. It also attempts to outline a possible Darwinian origin for the emergence and prevalence of religious belief.

So what has the progressive reaction been? Not very, as it turns out. The November issue of Harper's magazine was emblazoned with a front cover notice calling attention to Pulitzer-winning author Marilynne Robinson's Dawkins critique "In Defense of Religion." Harper's, of course, certainly didn't mean a defence of Islam; the publication's continuing mockery of Muslim faith was recently cited by a writer friend of mine (at an Eid party marking the end of Ramadan, no less) as the reason she no longer buys the mag. True to form, the halal yuks continued in the same issue in "Ground Control to my Imam," a preposterous speech about finding the direction to Mecca while orbiting the earth, in order to pray from space.

Whose daddy is being gored?

Meanwhile, in the London Review of Books, one of the great minds of serious Marxist and progressive literary criticism, Terry Eagleton launches a critique of Dawkins so histrionic you'd think it was his dad, and not Christ's, who was being insulted. After writing the first half of his review as though he hadn't read Dawkins's book (continuously raising objections that Dawkins himself had already brought up and demolished), Eagleton makes it to his one redeeming criticism: Dawkins's superficial grasp of politics and history. After that, it's back to grasping at straws.

There's even a sentence that could be taken as a bizarre threat, not unlike the ones from Christian fanatics reproduced in The God Delusion, when Eagleton says: "Dawkins may be relieved to know that I don't actually know where he lives." Eagleton then dismisses Dawkins's rationalism as a liberal trope of the English middle-class -- no word yet whether Eagleton's LRB essay was filed from a meatpacking plant or a more traditional coal mine, but his upcoming book, How to Read a Poem, promises to be a huge hit amongst inner-city Pakistani teens and white proletarian football hooligans.

"Dawkins quite rightly detests fundamentalists," Eagleton writes, "but as far as I know, his anti-religious diatribes have never been matched in his work by a critique of the global capitalism that generates the hatred, anxiety, insecurity and sense of humiliation that breed fundamentalism." For those who care to read it, one such Dawkins essay was recently published alongside playwright Harold Pinter's Nobel Prize acceptance speech by the U.K.'s Stop the War Coalition as a fundraising and political tool. The book, typical of middle-class evasiveness and equivocation, is called Not One More Death.

Eagleton does rightfully take Dawkins to task for his political and historical naivety -- he's particularly baffled when Dawkins's suggests that the words "nationalist" and "loyalist" are, in their Northern Irish context, merely euphemisms for "Catholic" and "Protestant," respectively.

An equally cringe-inducing point comes on page 44: "As I said in the Preface, American atheists far outnumber religious Jews, yet the Jewish lobby is notoriously one of the most formidable in Washington. What might American atheists achieve if they organized themselves properly?" The so-called Jewish lobby is not, after all, calling for the national separation of milks and meats; it's more properly called a pro-Israel lobby, and works to secure military hardware as well as financial and political support for an existing earthly government.

Religion's hardly the only delusion

Throughout The God Delusion, Dawkins minimizes the role of ethnic, class and international conflict in order to emphasize the role of religion. Eagleton is also right in his evisceration of Dawkins's Hegelian optimism and blind trust in a guiding and ever-ameliorating zeitgeist (although he fails to contextualize it in Dawkins's memetic theory, which is a very different thing than any advanced by Hegel). Eagleton also accurately goes after the "bitchiness" of Dawkins's tone (an angry condescension which permeates the first third of the work).

But it's worth remembering that the fight between science and religion isn't one that science picked. Quite the opposite. The controversies surrounding intelligent design and young-earth theories, as well as pseudo-scientific studies on the power of prayer (which Dawkins debunks), mark religion's steady and ill-advised incursion onto science's turf, to which Dawkins responds mercilessly. When Dawkins makes the point that a creationist God raises more questions than He answers, he doesn't raise it in a vacuum -- rather, he's responding to theists who insist that the "God Hypothesis" answers questions that physics and biology can't, and is therefore superior.

Besides, The God Delusion quickly drops its sour tack and becomes a most impassioned, endearing, articulate and heartening secular-humanist call to arms. Call it the book's evolution. Despite the clumsy burka metaphor with which he wraps up his essay, Dawkins is humane, logical and erudite. This is a fitting manifesto for any of us who have been told that we have no moral system because we lack faith in a god, or even for those who believe simply that spiritual atavism and confessional regression are not the means with which we ought to meet the challenges of the present day. Or for those who see no virtue in faith itself, relying instead on reason, and Enlightenment ideals now (hopefully) corrected of the racial, class and gender biases of the philosophers who initially expounded upon them.

This is necessary reading for everybody, if those of us without holy books are ever to stand a chance.

Comments 1 - 30 of 30 |

Reload Comments | Back to Top | Page Numbers

1. Comment #12963 by Fronkey on December 14, 2006 at 4:41 pm

 avatarInteresting review, in some ways.

I would, however, argue that in a book on religion, I think it is only fair to concentrate on religion, rather than ethnic, class and international conflict.

Although I would point out that ethnic conflict overlaps with the religious so frequently that for the purposes of TGD, the distinction is immaterial to the general philosophical argument.

Other Comments by Fronkey

2. Comment #12967 by JuliusFirefly on December 14, 2006 at 5:06 pm

 avatarI kind of see where this guy Eagleton is coming from. Basically, he puts the blame on a total different spot than Dawkins.

It's not like Dawkins doesn't know that religion isn't always the (only) problem, it's just that for Eagleton there's only capitalism to blame.

If only he had read his Marx a little bit more thorough...

On the other hand I've got to agree with him, if only a little: TGD is strongest when Dawkins is talking about his own field of expertise (biology and evolution), and slightly weaker when handling politics. But not *that* much weaker...

Other Comments by JuliusFirefly

3. Comment #12968 by Logicel on December 14, 2006 at 5:13 pm

 avatar"Besides, The God Delusion quickly drops its sour tack and becomes a most impassioned, endearing, articulate and heartening secular-humanist call to arms. Call it the book's evolution. Despite the clumsy burka metaphor with which he wraps up his essay, Dawkins is humane, logical and erudite."
_________


Eloquently put and reflects my sentiments.

Chapters 8 through 10 in TGD are lucidly written with intense compassion. When I encounter critics of Dawkins describing him as a cold-hearted man embracing uncaring and dogmatic science that he insists on cramming down our throats, I think of these last chapters and realize these critics have not read TGD from cover to cover.

I regard this review as the adequately competent review for which we were all waiting. However, it is from the progressive side and directed towards that side. Will we ever encounter the equivalent in terms of an adequate review from the god botherers?

The author writes well and clearly, and it was a very enjoyable read.

Other Comments by Logicel

4. Comment #12974 by Yorker on December 14, 2006 at 6:08 pm

 avatar>>...no word yet whether Eagleton's LRB essay was filed from a meatpacking plant or a more traditional coal mine, but his upcoming book, How to Read a Poem, promises to be a huge hit amongst inner-city Pakistani teens and white proletarian football hooligans.<<

Ooh...nice one!

>>Eagleton does rightfully take Dawkins to task for his political and historical naivety -- he's particularly baffled when Dawkins's suggests that the words "nationalist" and "loyalist" are, in their Northern Irish context, merely euphemisms for "Catholic" and "Protestant," respectively.<<

I see it Dawkins' way, because that's basically how they're divided.

Other Comments by Yorker

5. Comment #12980 by Yorker on December 14, 2006 at 7:34 pm

 avatar7. Comment #12977 by JONATHAN DORE

Yes, that's about it.

Ask Josh if he will reset your name Jonathon.

Other Comments by Yorker

6. Comment #12981 by Jared on December 14, 2006 at 7:56 pm

 avatarI originally came here to highlight the very quote that Yorker pulled from the article, regarding 'How To Read A Poem' and the working class. Great minds think alike, they say :)

In any event, I agree with Logicel that this was probably one of the most fair reviews we've seen. It's not overwhelmingly, slavishly positive (as some, but only a very few, have been) and nor is it ignorantly negative like the VAST majority of them. Demers brings up justified negatives about Dawkins's approach without saddling his complaints with Eagleton's Marxist baggage.

I wish there were more in this vein, coming from both sides, but that may be an unrealistic desire on so polarizing and needlessly 'taboo' an issue.

Other Comments by Jared

7. Comment #12991 by mroren on December 15, 2006 at 12:40 am

This review begins with the observation that the Liberal Leftist do not seem to embrace TGD as one might expect, due to their mutual disdain of the fundamentalist positions. I'd like to know why that is? Even Marxism has a better reputation then atheism. That is what has to change. I hope it will in my lifetime.

[Dr. Dawkins is, indeed, eloquent with respect to biology -- "The Ancestor's Tale" is fine example of this too.]

Other Comments by mroren

8. Comment #12997 by brianeyre on December 15, 2006 at 2:09 am

"Dawkins's suggests that the words "nationalist" and "loyalist" are, in their Northern Irish context, merely euphemisms for "Catholic" and "Protestant," respectively.

- well... for all practical purposes, they are pretty much the same thing in that context (speaking, as I am, as an Irishman), so I'm not sure that Dawkins is the one being naive here.

On another note, I feel that many on the left have trouble reconciling an opposition to faith with the need to champion the cause of the world's disavantaged (for whom religion frequently tends to be a coping mechanism). To avoid the cognitive dissonance, faith is given a free ride, and even endorsed outright.

Other Comments by brianeyre

9. Comment #13009 by MouthAlmighty on December 15, 2006 at 3:51 am

 avatar"This review begins with the observation that the Liberal Leftist do not seem to embrace TGD as one might expect, due to their mutual disdain of the fundamentalist positions. I'd like to know why that is?"

Me too - I've found a few voices in the liberal left that see religion as something "uniquely human" and think of it as, "a form of human consciousness" and therefore something to be defended, even though the commentators themselves would claim to be secular humanists. It's basically one of the "I'm an athiest but..." arguments.

When people like Dawkins and Dennett try to explain religion in non-mystical terms, these commentators react by questioning their humanist credentials denouncing all such attempts as 'anti-human'.

In this sense the liberal left is logically and politically indistinguishable from the church in its defence of the soul. Not a great example of championing post Enlightenment ideals.

Other Comments by MouthAlmighty

10. Comment #13017 by Aussie on December 15, 2006 at 4:30 am

I would like to see many more vitriolic reviews of TGD and in fact to see it banned in some regions if this were possible. This would make the book even more controversial and as a consequence stimulate even greater sales than it has enjoyed so far.

I have just returned from a trip to Adelaide and just out of interest checked the bookstores in both Sydney and Adelaide airport.

Sydney Airport bookstore had a stack of TGD prominently displayed on the stand of best sellers as you entered the store. Copies were also available in two specialist sections inside the bookstore.

Unfortunately, neither of the two bookstores in Adelaide Airport had it on the stack of bestsellers at the door and even more disappointingly further investigation revealed that it was missing in the specialist categories inside where you might have expected to find it. In short there was not a copy to be found anywhere in Adelaide Airport. But as you could probably guess there was no shortage of books on astrology, aliens and other assorted nonsense.

Other Comments by Aussie

11. Comment #13018 by Sancus on December 15, 2006 at 4:35 am

I agree with Jared and Logicel. It would be nice to see more discussion of this nature. It does not need to be political or legal. It could be a moral discussion on the value of liberty. Then it'd be a discussion on real Enlightenment values.

Has anyone read "Not One More Death?" This is the first I've heard of it, and Demers says that in it Dawkins addresses what Eagleton calls the, "global capitalism that generates the hatred, anxiety, insecurity and sense of humiliation that breed fundamentalism." It appears that Dawkins rejects the war, but does he really address capitalism? I don't know about you guys, but I think fundamentalism appears to breed "hatred, anxiety, insecurity, and a sense of humiliation," just fine on its own.

From mroren:
This review begins with the observation that the Liberal Leftist do not seem to embrace TGD as one might expect, due to their mutual disdain of the fundamentalist positions. I'd like to know why that is?

I think it's because the left believes that it can use the moral system of the religious to persuade it toward socialism, and it does not want to alienate a potential ally. The majority of socialists appear to be moderately religious or at the very least "spiritual," so their disagreement with the religious right is not religious. Far from doing away with religion, they want to use religion to inspire them.

It is an effort that is doomed to fail...hopefully. Fundamentalist Christians at least maintain some belief in the sanctity of choice. One must choose to do good, not force the bourgeois into doing it for you. Up until now, we have been fortunate that the religious right has protected liberty. Now, they've decided that the world's going to end and are giving in to power.

One of the primary functions of religion has been to bridge the individual and society. Removing religion, from the perspective of a believer, is analogous to removing an actual bridge and asking the believer to jump in the river and fend for himself.

Atheists have difficulty bridging ourselves with society. I think we are correct in thinking it's because those of us who are out of the closet are so few. The believers think it's because we're helpless and lonely without God. The socialist left appears to agree that we're helpless and has bought wholesale into the notion that government can act as our bridge between individual and society. Marxists look to government to take the place of religion.

We don't need monolithic institutions to bridge individuals with society. Individuals choose their friends and need no help or justification. Government must protect that freedom, not legislate it. The left has forgotten the Enlightenment values of Locke, Jefferson, Kant, and Adam Smith, and religions never really learned them in the first place.

Other Comments by Sancus

12. Comment #13021 by pholt on December 15, 2006 at 4:47 am

I would speculate that the liberal left's attitude to Prof. Dawkins stems as much from his views on postmodernism as from his views on religion.

If you haven't read him on the subject, try 'A Devil's Chaplin'. He is as scathing about PM as he is about religion.

Other Comments by pholt

13. Comment #13023 by Sancus on December 15, 2006 at 5:05 am

pholt, I have not actually seen anyone try to defend postmodernism from anyone, much less Richard Dawkins. If you ever find any such instances, I'd love to see them.

Other Comments by Sancus

14. Comment #13024 by Jared on December 15, 2006 at 5:07 am

 avatarpholt:
'He is as scathing about PM as he is about religion.'

And with good reason, I'd say! As someone who has had to deal with lots of Postmodernist texts in my MA program, I can say that it doesn't take a lot to see the deliberate obfuscantism in which they coat their often specious ideas.

This is not to say that there is NO benefit to be gained from the movement, merely that as someone who prizes truth, clarity of expression, and rationalism, Dawkins SHOULD have his sword pointed at postmodernism. They quite often stand for much that Dawkins is against.

The only trouble is that for the purposes of Eagleton's review, the point is moot, as Eagleton is also a fierce critic of postmodernism from a different side. With both postmodernism and Marxist critiques coming from the left, and with the points that Sancus and MouthAlmighty make above, it's clear that Dawkins can't expect many friends at all amongst the liberal left. Pity, that.

Other Comments by Jared

15. Comment #13025 by Logicel on December 15, 2006 at 5:10 am

 avatar"Atheists have difficulty bridging ourselves with society. I think we are correct in thinking it's because those of us who are out of the closet are so few. The believers think it's because we're helpless and lonely without God. The socialist left appears to agree that we're helpless and has bought wholesale into the notion that government can act as our bridge between individual and society. Marxists look to government to take the place of religion."
________

Insightful post, Sancus (as usual!)

Could you please give us your opinion on the existing Libertarian party?

Other Comments by Logicel

16. Comment #13027 by Logicel on December 15, 2006 at 5:17 am

 avatarJared and Sancus, how do you bold face our names in your comments? I think it is very useful and want to do it also.

Other Comments by Logicel

17. Comment #13028 by Sancus on December 15, 2006 at 5:27 am

Wow, you two are quick! I was making edits and took out some of the libertarian advertising (didn't want to make it too political).

I look forward to your posts too, Logicel. :) I think the Libertarian party is in a state of flux as it gains new advocates. A lot of the old guys think the new guys are ruining it because they want to do things like legalize marijuana. There are so many things Libertarians want to do, so I suppose everyone has a pet issue. It's the herding cats analogy again! I'm optimistic that libertarian causes will find their way into the mainstream somehow, though. What about you?

Jared and Sancus, how do you bold face our names in your comments? I think it is very useful and want to do it also.


I think we're both using the bold HTML tag. Here's a reference sheet: http://www.w3schools.com/tags/

Some of them might be disabled on the server here. I also use the "blockquote" tag whenever quoting text.

Other Comments by Sancus

18. Comment #13031 by NoLongerHaveBelief on December 15, 2006 at 5:52 am

I've read this interesting review and all the above postings. Excellent!

>>Comment #13017 by Aussie<<

I'll add to this, Aussie. I CAN'T WAIT to read The God Delusion! I have it coming (ironically?) as a Christmas pressie! The Theists have been vitriolic in their attacks against TGD. One wonders why? Maybe Professor Dawkins has hit a sore spot?!

I am thoroughly looking forward to reading it. I enjoy all the Professors' works. They explain so much to a layman, such as myself; I particularly enjoy the manner in which Professor Dawkins explains difficult subjects in such simple plain English.

Something the Bible has NEVER done.

I remember as a kid, reading that Gideon Bible claptrap I was given from school. At the front, it had passages to turn to, when in times of trouble/ anger/ loneliness etc., Try and understand it! PURE contradictory and confusing text. The Bible makes as much sense to myself as does a chocolate teapot! Infact, a chocolate teapot would be MORE use than the Bible. Certainly would be entertaining... :-)

Other Comments by NoLongerHaveBelief

19. Comment #13033 by Logicel on December 15, 2006 at 6:00 am

 avatarSancus, thanks for the HTML info.

Decades ago, when I first found out about the Libertarian party, I ran in the opposite direction--they seemed wacko. I also never appreciated their diva, A. Rand.

After becoming a Wikipedian editor, I found out that Jimmy Wales who was essential in its founding is a member of the Libertarian party. I admire Wales immensely, not only because I can access so much worthwhile knowledge for free, but because I can freely edit it, discuss the editions with anyone, oh well, it is just a perfect pleasure for someone like me. So all of a sudden the Libertarian party became credible in my eyes. I think new 'guys' like Wales will make that party a bit more appealing, but I am still cautious because if you are a Libertarian how can you even be identified with a political party? A true Libertarian is apolitical in my book.

Other Comments by Logicel

20. Comment #13056 by Sancus on December 15, 2006 at 7:57 am

Rand goes way over the top. It seems like she was trying to say the same thing Nietzsche said, but Nietzsche said it a hundred times better, and I think Rand realized that.

I agree, a libertarian is apolitical. I don't belong to the party and honestly I don't even vote (there are no candidates with libertarian issues where I live and my district has been gerrymandered in favor of Republicans anyway). I see libertarianism as something that intersects all parties. Civil libertarians tend to be on the left and fiscal libertarians on the right, although this balance appears to be shifting.

I just saw your post about Youth Rights on that other page. That was the high point of my day, maybe of my week! Those of us who remember seem like a very rare bunch. I have only met a precious few online who are even remotely interested in Youth Rights issues. I cherish the delight of meeting another, so thank you very much. :)

Other Comments by Sancus

21. Comment #13059 by Logicel on December 15, 2006 at 8:06 am

 avatarSancus, I hear you, you made my week also when I saw your youth rights comment! Yes, recognizing the importance of youth rights is rare-- you are the first that I have encountered in my life that understands that young humans are treated like crapola.

Other Comments by Logicel

22. Comment #13060 by Luthien on December 15, 2006 at 8:12 am

 avatarRegarding Comment #12977 by JONATHAN DORE on December 14, 2006 at 6:29 pm

Yorker (#12974):
>>Eagleton does rightfully take Dawkins to task for his political and historical naivety -- he's particularly baffled when Dawkins's suggests that the words "nationalist" and "loyalist" are, in their Northern Irish context, merely euphemisms for "Catholic" and "Protestant," respectively.<<

"I see it Dawkins' way, because that's basically how they're divided."

"Yes Yorker, precisely: whenever I hear someone say the difference isn't religious (because their disagreements are chiefly political rather than theological) I want to ask them why the Northern Irish therefore need to continue being educated in religiously segregated schools? If it was a mere political disagreement, what would be the justification for them maintaining two completely separate and parallel public education systems? Is there any other conflict in the world in which a purely political disagreement has led to the creation of two separate, parallel education systems? Yet in Northern Ireland we are told that is precisely what is happening, even though the segregation, strangely, takes place precisely along the lines of (an of course arbitrary and totally irrelevant) religious identity! Yeah. Right."

I am from Northern Ireland, and I can confirm that Dawkins is correct to say that "the words 'nationalist' and 'loyalist' are, in their Northern Irish context, merely euphemisms for 'Catholic' and 'Protestant,' respectively".

Your point about the schooling system is bang on the mark too.

The divisions in Northern Ireland can be directly traced back to the religious war fought by the Catholic Church (via the Spanish, and other catholic nations) against the nations that had thrown off their control in favour of Protestantism. Unfortunately Ireland was a convenient 'back door' to England, complete with a ready made army of uneducated people who would do whatever their 'priest' told them to do. The divide is still there to this day, although I suspect that the liberal (for his time) William of Orange would be horrified by some of his modern 'supporters'.

Other Comments by Luthien

23. Comment #13066 by Bookman on December 15, 2006 at 8:51 am

Reporting from Vancouver, home of the author of this article, sales of The God Delusion rose 23 percent last week in Canada, and it's #3 on Amazon.ca

Very nice to see!

Other Comments by Bookman

24. Comment #13075 by aidanjt on December 15, 2006 at 9:26 am

"I am from Northern Ireland, and I can confirm that Dawkins is correct to say that "the words 'nationalist' and 'loyalist' are, in their Northern Irish context, merely euphemisms for 'Catholic' and 'Protestant,' respectively"."

Agreed, these are common stereotypes in Northern Ireland. I was brought up in Northern Ireland, being Irish and living in a protestant neighbourhood I got a lot of flack for being considered a catholic and thus a nationalist for the same reasons, despite being christened in an Anglican Church as a child, nor harbouring any desire to have the six counties reunited with the Republic. Religious bigotry dies hard.

Other Comments by aidanjt

25. Comment #13080 by Joadist on December 15, 2006 at 9:45 am

The Liberal Left are not Marxists. Their spokespeople include Rev Jesse Jackson, Rev Al Sharpton, Bishop Desmond Tutu and the Berrigans.

Other Comments by Joadist

26. Comment #13091 by anon on December 15, 2006 at 10:53 am

 avatar'beer-baked ham at a Saudi potluck', brilliant! Is it be un-PC of me to laugh at that?

Nice to see a balanced review from someone who wouldn't consider themselves 'on our side'. It's a shame such reasonable sentiment is so often drowned out by the petty venomous attacks.

Other Comments by anon

27. Comment #13096 by matlot on December 15, 2006 at 11:37 am

A very fair review. It raises some of the problems I also found in the book. It does worry me that Dawkins is beating inefectually at the world rulers' shield of religion, rather than going for their Machiavelian jugular as Chomsky does. But then, that just isn't Richard's fight I suppose.

Other Comments by matlot

28. Comment #13110 by Urbi Cica on December 15, 2006 at 1:44 pm

I don't understand his problem with Dawkins's comments about the Jewish lobby in America. It's not a dig at the lobby's religiosity. He is pointing out that it is a very effective lobby despite being statistically a relatively small group of Americans. His point is surely that atheists, who are probably far more numerous than Jews in America, could potentially have even greater impact as a group.

People are so terrified of being perceived as anti-semites that they seem to be terrified of the motives of anyone who brings up a Jewish example! What is "cringe worthy" about Dawkins's comparison? Jewish Americans are a great lobby group. Atheists could aspire to be equally effective. Is anyone seriously offended by this thought?

Other Comments by Urbi Cica

29. Comment #13134 by pholt on December 15, 2006 at 7:42 pm

>>pholt, I have not actually seen anyone try to defend postmodernism from anyone, much less Richard Dawkins. If you ever find any such instances, I'd love to see them.<<

What prompted my thought was the particularly vitriolic attack by Mark Dooley, who is described here:

http://www3.villanova.edu/ReligionAndPostmodernism/Dooley.html

as a theologist and postmodernist. It's the one that started "I have always disliked (...) Richard Dawkins". I wondered whether this dislike is only due to Prof. Dawkins writings on religion.

Other Comments by pholt

30. Comment #13307 by jonjermey on December 16, 2006 at 11:20 pm

Atheists are not the kind of people who lobby governments. Lobbying implies that the democratic process must be manipulated in order to pander to special interests. Most of the atheists I know would find that morally repugnant.

In fact the whole notion of letting your special interests affect your rational judgement of what's right and wrong makes for a pretty good definition of religious belief.

Other Comments by jonjermey
Reload Comments | Back to Top

Comment Entry: Please Login

Register a new account

Username:

Password: