




















I love the commercialisation of Christmas
At this time of year, a low, familiar bleat is invariably heard from the pulpits and vestries: Christmas has become crudely commercialised. Money, money, money has trumped Messiah, Messiah, Messiah.2. Comment #14092 by eggplantbren on December 21, 2006 at 4:53 am
3. Comment #14098 by Didaktylos on December 21, 2006 at 5:17 am
Q: What do you call someone who bans Christmas?4. Comment #14104 by Yorker on December 21, 2006 at 6:27 am
5. Comment #14105 by anon on December 21, 2006 at 6:34 am
6. Comment #14119 by Badger on December 21, 2006 at 7:48 am
as far as I'm aware christmas is the third most important feastday in the christian calendar with good friday and easter day being the more important. These are not celebrated as much so it must be the commercialism that makes christmas/winter solstice so popular7. Comment #14126 by blaine on December 21, 2006 at 8:26 am
Re: #14092 by eggplantbren8. Comment #14130 by scooternyc on December 21, 2006 at 8:32 am
9. Comment #14132 by Edutheria on December 21, 2006 at 8:40 am
Is it wrong to buy things that you enjoy? To buy presents which your loved ones enjoy? Is it wrong to sell things that people enjoy? What is wrong with commerce? Anti-commercial moralizing is just as unfounded and "holier-than-thou" as religious moralizing.10. Comment #14134 by Jonathan Dore on December 21, 2006 at 8:47 am
Comment #14098 by Didaktylos11. Comment #14143 by Diplo on December 21, 2006 at 9:13 am
12. Comment #14145 by Jiten on December 21, 2006 at 9:14 am
13. Comment #14152 by Yorker on December 21, 2006 at 9:42 am
14. Comment #14174 by blaine on December 21, 2006 at 10:51 am
There are plenty of other forums where politics and economics can be discussed without introducing unnecessary division and indignation among the New Atheists here. Besides, a forum for political or economic discussion will have many more members who are particularly skilled or interested in those fields.15. Comment #14205 by Andrew Charles on December 21, 2006 at 1:33 pm
I am sitting here in South Africa and it is almost 40 degrees celsius. The shopping malls have fuckin' trees with fake snow and are playing wintery carols and all that shit. Materialist or not, it's a fuckin' joke...16. Comment #14206 by Andrew Charles on December 21, 2006 at 1:34 pm
Excuse my language...17. Comment #14208 by StephenH on December 21, 2006 at 1:36 pm
18. Comment #14215 by Edutheria on December 21, 2006 at 1:57 pm
Yorker,19. Comment #14216 by Edutheria on December 21, 2006 at 1:58 pm
Blaine,20. Comment #14217 by Cholmonedeley on December 21, 2006 at 2:03 pm
It seems to me that Christianity today is facing the same problem they did when they first decided to celebrate Christmas over Saturnalia. The tradition of festivities and gift-giving at the most dreary time of the year is just too appealing to leave to one religion alone. One wonders how they ever got so many people to convert in the first place.21. Comment #14218 by Edutheria on December 21, 2006 at 2:05 pm
Jiten,22. Comment #14219 by Logicel on December 21, 2006 at 2:06 pm
23. Comment #14226 by kcjerith on December 21, 2006 at 2:30 pm
wow, right on target Edutheria! I think it is improtant to note the economic freedom and freedom of ideas go hand in hand, if you can limit one you can limit the other.24. Comment #14228 by Jared on December 21, 2006 at 2:39 pm
25. Comment #14230 by Jiten on December 21, 2006 at 2:54 pm
26. Comment #14233 by princepetr on December 21, 2006 at 3:13 pm
27. Comment #14234 by Jared on December 21, 2006 at 3:13 pm
28. Comment #14239 by kcjerith on December 21, 2006 at 3:30 pm
Jiten, no the reason freedom is limited in any non-capitalist is not because of the USSR, though i think is a good example, it is because one is required for the other, if the state controls the means of production, labor, mangement, etc. then it can control the output of ideas. It can control what is or not to be researched, it can force for a subject to be taught in a certain way.29. Comment #14241 by Aussie on December 21, 2006 at 3:50 pm
"as far as I'm aware christmas is the third most important feastday in the christian calendar with good friday and easter day being the more important. These are not celebrated as much so it must be the commercialism that makes christmas/winter solstice so popular"30. Comment #14242 by princepetr on December 21, 2006 at 3:55 pm
31. Comment #14250 by Jared on December 21, 2006 at 4:27 pm
32. Comment #14261 by Edutheria on December 21, 2006 at 5:33 pm
Jiten,"Edutheria : the long answer has been more than adequately provided by Marx"
33. Comment #14263 by MelM on December 21, 2006 at 6:59 pm
"On this dot, tiny lumps of impure carbon and water crawl about for a few years, until they are dissolved again into the elements of which they are compounded."34. Comment #14264 by Cholmonedeley on December 21, 2006 at 7:00 pm
Jiten said:35. Comment #14288 by kcjerith on December 22, 2006 at 12:19 am
Also, just to add a few more failings of marx's ideas, he classic divison of society falls apart in the modern world. There is not just the bouseguise and proleteriat (sorry about spelling, but it later, i swear i smarter than my speeling :)!. today there are wide wage of middle mangement that do not feat neatly into this system. another point, marx was quite sure that the road to socalism was inevitable, and that captilism was just a phase. Again not true, captilsim never collasped under its own "flaws"36. Comment #14325 by Jiten on December 22, 2006 at 3:09 am
37. Comment #14330 by Logicel on December 22, 2006 at 4:06 am
38. Comment #14408 by Edutheria on December 22, 2006 at 9:56 am
(Sorry for the crosspost)39. Comment #14420 by Sailnsouth on December 22, 2006 at 11:28 am
An enjoyable article40. Comment #14435 by Edutheria on December 22, 2006 at 12:36 pm
Jiten,Edutheria,if I had said to someone else the short answer is natural selection and the long answer has been more than adequately provided by Darwin (and later eloquently refined by Dawkins and others) what would have said? Would you have made the same spurious analogy? I think not as you would have rightly pointed out that theirs was a reasoned argument backed up by evidence.Do you then believe that Marx's arguments are not reasoned arguments backed up by evidence?
If I had regurgitated Marx in my own less elegant words would you have then taken my argument to be 'inteligent',one worthy to be in a 'clear thinking' forum?
41. Comment #14701 by Fouad Boussetta on December 24, 2006 at 2:22 pm
1. Comment #14090 by leonora on December 21, 2006 at 4:49 am
I agree that the festival should be secularised (I can just hear the fire being prepared for me as I type this!!), and there may be an argument for changing the name, since many of us don't actually celebrate CHRISTMAS as such, not the birth of Christ, we just celebrate the Winter Solstice - every culture that has ever existed has had some kind of ritual to observe the Winter Solstice. So perhaps some more inclusive name might be a good idea....but then the Christians would take offence.....
Other Comments by leonora