1. Comment #18927 by bitbutter on January 23, 2007 at 5:14 pm

great initiative, pledged.

Other Comments by bitbutter

2. Comment #18940 by mjleitch on January 23, 2007 at 8:51 pm

That would be a great plan in the United States also. One book for every federal senator and one for every house member.

Other Comments by mjleitch

3. Comment #18949 by David Williams on January 24, 2007 at 12:44 am

An excellent idea, I will start off in Australia with a copy to our Federal Member, Premier of Western Austrlia, Alan Carpenter. I wonder indeed if each member (of any country) was to receive several copies of the God Delusion it would somehow compel them to read it - not a bullying system but rather the concept that if they were to receive the tenth book they would grudgingly pick it up to read, if only to see what the fuss was about! Nice one, J Christie.

Other Comments by David Williams

4. Comment #18950 by DerrickB on January 24, 2007 at 12:45 am

Wouldn't Sam Harris' Letter to a Christian Nation be more likely to be read - especially by United States politicians?

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5. Comment #18952 by davorg on January 24, 2007 at 1:03 am

Excellent pledge. I'm in.

Other Comments by davorg

6. Comment #18955 by DerrickB on January 24, 2007 at 1:37 am

Should each copy have a personal letter attached encouraging our representative to read it - or would it be better to have some standard paragraphs prepared setting out a consistent viewpoint (with endorsement from some nationally known supporters)?

Other Comments by DerrickB

7. Comment #18964 by Max Mullen on January 24, 2007 at 3:33 am

A good idea, but some MPs will receive a several books and others none. Perhaps better to subscribe to a fund to ensure at least one book to each. Why stop at MPs? Should also include local political leaders, USA politicos and "divines".

Other Comments by Max Mullen

8. Comment #18965 by ear1grey on January 24, 2007 at 3:54 am

Why stop at USA politicos and "divines"? A copy in every hotel room would be a wonderful target.

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9. Comment #18966 by davorg on January 24, 2007 at 3:59 am

A copy in every hotel room would be a wonderful target.

That would be excellent. Right next to the Gideon Bible. How do we start? And how do we ensure that it's not removed by the cleaning staff?

Other Comments by davorg

10. Comment #18971 by DerrickB on January 24, 2007 at 4:52 am

Every hotel room may be financially challenging - and yes the rate of loss through removal and defacing would be significant. Starting with 5 copies in each Secondary School might be more productive?

Other Comments by DerrickB

11. Comment #18983 by Quartania80 on January 24, 2007 at 7:11 am

Great idea - I'm keen to start in Western Australia.

No need to give one to our Premier Alan Carpenter however... this quote from the ABC website 27/1/06

"Every morning, we sang God Save the Queen and recited the Lord's prayer and now, you know, 49 years of age, I'm an avowed republican and I'm an atheist."

Could this be the first openly atheist Premier in Australia?

Other Comments by Quartania80

12. Comment #18998 by RascoHeldall on January 24, 2007 at 8:25 am

I'd love to (especially as I have previously corresponded with my MP on the subject of religion in schools) but can't really afford to buy another copy.

Perhaps Prof. Dawkins has some spares kicking around? ;-)

Other Comments by RascoHeldall

13. Comment #18999 by CJ on January 24, 2007 at 8:39 am

An absolutly spanking idea!!

http://www.parliament.uk/directories/hciolists/alms.cfm

All the MPs are listed here. You don't have to know their home address as they can all be sent Co Houses of Parliament.

645 books is a good pile. How about getting all the books together in one go and delivering them on mass. Possible publicity with a national newspaper involved?

But I still want to know how we will avoid duplication?

Other Comments by CJ

14. Comment #19005 by Eamonn Shute on January 24, 2007 at 9:45 am

CJ: According to J Christie on the link "Should this pledge gain momentum, I additionally undertake to maintain a simple online list of MP's (and their addresses) for whom pledges have been received, to eliminate duplication of effort."

Other Comments by Eamonn Shute

15. Comment #19007 by NoLongerHaveBelief on January 24, 2007 at 10:00 am

Count me in too guys.

If everybody sends a copy - I'll purchase a 2nd copy too. That would cover Dudley South - my M.P is Mr Ian Pearson.

I think Roman Catholics have got a cheek, with their history of child abuse!

Other Comments by NoLongerHaveBelief

16. Comment #19016 by anon on January 24, 2007 at 11:32 am

A very smart idea, count me in.

How is this going to work exactly? For the best impact they should all go out at the same time, but that'd be difficult to organize. How would the whole thing be co-ordinated?

Other Comments by anon

17. Comment #19021 by IainM on January 24, 2007 at 12:05 pm

Has anyone pledged to send one to the Pope, if not count me in.

Other Comments by IainM

18. Comment #19038 by ear1grey on January 24, 2007 at 1:08 pm

Anon "How is this going to work exactly?"

Just visit http://www.pledgebank.com/church-and-state and make your pledge

Other Comments by ear1grey

19. Comment #19076 by Friggertool on January 24, 2007 at 4:48 pm

another shoulder to wheel here

Other Comments by Friggertool

20. Comment #19107 by John Phillips on January 25, 2007 at 2:20 am

I wrote to my MP (Kerry MCCarthy) the other day about this issue and got a reply the same day that he was opposed to this move and was actively campaigning with others that this exemption wouldn't happen. However, it is possible because the bill has passed that this will be done administratively by the department responsible for it. It used to be Alan Johnson's department but because he opposed this the PM handed it over to Ruth Kelly's (a supporter of Opus Dei who is more loyal to them than the government and the country) department for administrating it and she may try to bring this in through the back door. So I ask all UK members of this site to contact their MP directly about this issue and get their support for if there is enough antipathy to this from the members of the commons she would not dare bring it in by the back door. The site given above by another poster will supply you with the contact details of your MP or go to www.theyworkforyou.com and you can find your MP from there on the very first page by entering your post code.

Other Comments by John Phillips

21. Comment #19118 by Homo economicus on January 25, 2007 at 3:56 am

Ok I am going against the grain here, but only in the how.

Writing to your MP about the importance of secularism is a wonderful thing - perhaps a standard letter requiring just our signature and postage to our MP would be wonderful. MPs respond to volume in their mail bags from constituents.

TGD being sent is fine but may cause people to think thats it. Do not think so. Everyone that cares about secularism and religions impact on public policy write to your representative.

One thing better than hotel rooms - how about putting scientific prose on railway station posters - get people thinking about science. In the UK loads of christian posters and scripture readings at stations.

Other Comments by Homo economicus

22. Comment #19120 by Logicel on January 25, 2007 at 4:09 am

great suggestions, Homo economicus

Other Comments by Logicel

23. Comment #19144 by Myryama on January 25, 2007 at 6:53 am

Sending one book to each MP, all arriving on the same day, would be very cool. If we deliberately allowed duplication, however, MPs could receive an almost constant stream of books and they'd be forced to hand them to relatives, give them to their secretaries and leave them on the tube for everyone else to read.

The cumulative effect of many small deliveries might be more dramatic than a single large delivery...

Other Comments by Myryama

24. Comment #19246 by FaceLeg on January 25, 2007 at 6:57 pm

An excellent movement!

If I were not so poor I would do the same in New Zealand.

I don't think the problem is so great here though, the Christian Party is a minority, holding nearly no power. Whats more, I recently heard that the (now ex) head of the party has been tried and convicted of child abuse - wouldn't expect that party to gain many votes now!

Would it be an idea (in the future) to set up an account to accept donations towards books? I cannot afford to partake myself, but would be able to make a small donation if it were possible to do so.

Other Comments by FaceLeg

25. Comment #19249 by Asteroid Miner on January 25, 2007 at 8:06 pm

As TGD says: George W. Bush is schizophrenic. As that German philosopher found out, you can't cure mental illness by teaching logic in the assylum. A degree in science can cure the milder forms of religion and the book can cure the mildest religious affliction. The more severe cases based on schizophrenia or temporal lobe disease require medication. Good luck with the MPs.

Other Comments by Asteroid Miner

26. Comment #19252 by The Happy Robot on January 26, 2007 at 12:17 am

I think this is a wonderful idea, even if only a statement. However I would feel much more comfortable sending the book to my MP with some sort of standardised covering letter, you know, just to let them know we are all together.

I looked around briefly on the site and couldn't find one. Any ideas anyone?

Other Comments by The Happy Robot

27. Comment #19268 by cnewell on January 26, 2007 at 2:21 am

I think school libraries would also be good recipients. On a recent visit I noticed that my local school library had no books on atheism or humanism - but plenty on different faiths.

It would be good to start a parallel pledge to secondary schools (there are only around 3360) pointing out that non-religious viewpoints are included in the guidelines on religious education issued by the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority (unlike Intelligent Design:-)

If there is enthusiasm for this I can set up a database of schools to allow people to nominate one online and avoid duplication.

Chris

Other Comments by cnewell

28. Comment #19273 by John01 on January 26, 2007 at 3:25 am

Fantastic idea. I must admit the recent arguments that discrimination is a religious right has had me particularly annoyed.

Other Comments by John01

29. Comment #19288 by pHernando on January 26, 2007 at 5:24 am

Could you or somebody send one for me?
I am a Brazilian biologist and a great fan of Dr. Dawkins and his books. Unfortunately scientists in Brazil are not recognized as important professional and my resources are very limited to buy a copy right now. My e-mail is mappinguari@hotmail.com Sincerely, Fernando.

Other Comments by pHernando

30. Comment #19398 by Baz Y on January 26, 2007 at 11:47 pm

Love all the 'Hit them with a book' ideas, but aren't we missing one important point? How do you get the SOB's to actually read the darn things, let alone benefit from them?
You can lead a horse to water ...

Other Comments by Baz Y

31. Comment #19420 by elstuarto on January 27, 2007 at 4:18 am

I think it's a good idea.

Unfortunately i live near Gainsborough and my MP is Edward Leigh. He's the chairman of the socially conservative "cornerstone" group of MP's, outspoken catholic and committed opponent of stem cell research, contraception, abortion and equality for gay's and cohabiting couples.

I don't think he'd read it.

Perhaps I could hit him over he head with a copy instead?

Other Comments by elstuarto

32. Comment #19438 by billyfish on January 27, 2007 at 7:50 am

First of all a thank you to elustuarto for making me laugh out loud!!

My main point is this, if this sending a book to each MP effort goes ahead (as i sincerely hope it does)some faith based person, MP or even a combination of both is going to make the arguement that the exercise grew out of the Richard Dawkins website and has allowed Dr Dawkins to sell 646 extra copies of his book which at £10 each is an extra £6460 ( iam using the amazon price as guide here, my own copy cost £20 from bloody waterstones!!!)i am not suggesting for a moment that this is all a sneeky ploy by Dr Dawkins, just merely anticipating what some may think and say in opposition to this campaign.

I think the best way out of this problem would be for Dr Dawkins himself to pledge the extra money that would come in to charity, or even to use it for some kind of reserach. We could then have a cover note sent with each book that not only said how united so many atheists are in there wish to keep church and state seperate, but also that Dr Dawkins did not profit personally (in the economic sense)from this secular initiative.

What do you guys think?

Other Comments by billyfish

33. Comment #19440 by FXR on January 27, 2007 at 8:06 am

For the past few weeks in Ireland I have been building up a stock of The God Delusion in order to send them to the country's political reps. I have also bought a copy of the DVD the Root of all Evil to send to our Taoiseach (prime minister) since this devout Catholic doesn't read books. At the moment in Ireland the government is holding consultations about bringing in child protection laws. Unbelievably the minister involved has consulted the Catholic Church and other organized religions (curiously despite requests he refused to invite Pagans or Druids). Its exasperating to think the people children need most protection from will have a hand in writing the legislation.

Other Comments by FXR

34. Comment #19448 by anon on January 27, 2007 at 9:16 am

If you look at some of the reviews The God Delusion tends to get, even from secular liberals, it's clear that many people will look for any excuse to discard the book as an intollerant rant, religion is that divisive.

If we're not careful the whole stunt could come off as an aggressive attack by 'militant atheists'; we'd end up worse of than we started. There should be standardized covering letters and we need to carefully dismantle the usual ignorant criticisms of the book and atheism in general.

Other Comments by anon

35. Comment #19458 by cheshirecat on January 27, 2007 at 11:09 am

I don't think that it will do any good. Knowledge presented through the post has never the value of knowledge eagerly sought, for there's none so deaf as them that will not hear. You first have to want to know something. I would not send this book anyway; it is not Dawkins best book. Politicians should read History not polemics.

Other Comments by cheshirecat

36. Comment #19578 by FXR on January 28, 2007 at 1:27 pm

I think the idea of a covering letter is a good idea.
I intend to send copies of TGD to politicians on all sides of the divide. I also intend to let each know who else received a copy. Maybe it will start an internal debate. It only takes one politician to seize on a topic if its judged to be gathering favour amoung the voters. It is perfectly true to say knowledge sought is better recived however at least the information is there for those who wish to inform themselves. At the very least they will know that everyone they claim to represent is not a religiously deluded sheep.

Other Comments by FXR

37. Comment #19581 by cheshirecat on January 28, 2007 at 2:32 pm

'A deluded sheep' being what? Someone who shouts with a louder mob than yours? (to paraphrase Mr Pickwick).

Other Comments by cheshirecat

38. Comment #19722 by Dan Allen on January 29, 2007 at 1:28 pm

Here's a starter for a covering letter.
Please flame as much as you like.


Dear XXXX,

Please take the time to read this book.
I am your constituent/a member of the electorate (*) and very concerned about the dreadful harm religion does to hundreds of millions of people in the UK and around the world every single day.
Prof. Richard Dawkins one of Britain's most admired and respected scientists has written this book to raise everyone's awareness to the evils of all religious belief and the damage 'faith' has done and continues to do to our society.
Current Government policies visa vie Faith Schools create division and the foster environments where young and impressionable people are indoctrinated with ideas that are patent nonsense and in many cases permanently damage the intellectual and emotional health of those people.

Important points made clearly and well in this book include:
• Religion in the form of 'blind faith' is childish nonsense.
• Religion in the form of 'blind faith' is harmful and dangerous nonsense to boot.
• Religion in the form of 'blind faith' does a lot of harm to a lot of people and no good that can not be readily and more safely achieved some other way.

I want you to read this book because I believe my country should run by informed and intelligent decision making. Almost by definition religion in the form of 'blind faith' can not form part of an informed and intelligent process because it purposefully intrinsically denies information, intelligence and reason and proceeds erratically on false premises.

The recent fiasco of Catholic adoption charities only goes to show how far removed the established religions have in fact become from the mainstream view of modern society as expressed by parliament.

I believe the time has come that we must look more closely at the separation of church and state in to a fully secular society as the only place where equality can be found because religion provides no one with any social privilege and decision making is based on reason and not wishful fantasy, myths, lies and nonsense.

I am a member of the National Secular Society (*)

Sincere regards,


XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXX
XXXXXX

* - delete as applicable.


We should also provide a bookplate (given to: by: On; as part of the 'XXXXX campaign organised by XXXXXX).

Other Comments by Dan Allen

39. Comment #19747 by Yeswell Sortov on January 29, 2007 at 6:22 pm

I'm in and will happily send my MP Greg Hands a copy.

Dan Allen's covering letter and bookplate is an excellent starting point.Though I think it could be revised and pared down to something more punchy that might actually get read in full.

It's too late at night for me to come up with something now but I'll revisit this page soon and post my version.

Other Comments by Yeswell Sortov

40. Comment #19870 by steveprice on January 30, 2007 at 11:30 am

good work people, according to the pedgebank

268 people have signed up so far!

spread the word!

Other Comments by steveprice

41. Comment #19974 by CJ on January 31, 2007 at 12:48 am

This is the letter I intend to send to my local MP. It might stimulate a few ideas for others. Comments welcome.

We met many years ago at my home in xxxxx to discuss how to stop the so-called xxxxxxxx. You helped us sort our way through the red-tape at the town hall, that help proved invaluable.

The time has come again to make a stand and this one is far more important than an electric train passing a school. This struggle is for the hearts and minds of humanity. Sounds terribly dramatic doesn't it!

I have enclosed a copy of The God Delusion of you. If you have read it please feel free to pass it on as a gift to somebody else.

The reason I am sending you this is that I found it one of the most important books I have ever read. Richard Dawkins argues, in my opinion very successfully, that a personal god does not exist and that any true supernatural deity is unimaginably improbable.

If Dawkins is right then of course the implication is that we require a complete re-evaluation of our society. Why? Because the development of our current society has been dominated by generally well meaning people who have been indoctrinated for generations in a falsehood. The effects of that falsehood need to be undone if we are to truly progress beyond our superstitious past.

I would ask you to read this book on behalf of one of your constituents and also because it's a very interesting insight into the workings of the theistic and atheistic mind.

I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

Other Comments by CJ

42. Comment #20134 by Dan Allen on January 31, 2007 at 2:56 pm

Thanks Yeswell(!?),
I think we're on the same page because you think pared down and punchy are the order of the day.
The few MPs I've ever met need their attention grabbed usually by some passing bandwagon.

Maybe this week we are that bandwagon.

Should we move up the "recent fiasco" paragraph?
It's topical and MPs might get swept up a bit more by such stuff.

Can we mention Camerons comments about Sharia law for the tory lot?

Other Comments by Dan Allen

43. Comment #20415 by AntonyR on February 2, 2007 at 9:40 am

I appreciate that this is well in motion but I would strongly recommend sending Sam Harris's book "The End of Faith" instead of TGD for the following reasons:

1. Sam Harris does not have the stigma associated with him that RD does; RD is often seen as a "fundamentalist athiest" which will likely result in people disregarding the book without even reading a single page.

2. You can ask the recipient to just humour you by reading from page 11 to page 23 - the first 12 pages of the book. If they read this much and still believe in their religion, or that religion is not bad, then their minds will not be changed. The God Delusion does not have this same impact in the early pages. I have just re-read the start of both books and "The End of Faith" has a much more powerful set of arguments early on, and a better style, that is likely to keep the person reading longer.

If you have not read "The End of Faith" I would strongly recommend it and you will see what I mean. I bought it after reading TGD.

Other Comments by AntonyR

44. Comment #20503 by Zara on February 3, 2007 at 12:45 pm

As has been noted above, this pledge would be far more effective if we could perhaps enlist the help of a like-minded MP to bring up the matter in the House of Commons. This way, the MPs receiving the books may be more inclined to actually read them rather than discarding them on arrival and replying with a formulaic message.

Other Comments by Zara

45. Comment #20532 by Homo economicus on February 3, 2007 at 8:26 pm

i accept that a standard letter would be useful, in it makes it easier for ourselves. Yet we can write a few words ourselves. In the UK we can e mail our MPs.

MPs respond to volume of mail, rather than volumes we may send. MPs are concerned about votes, sometimes about certain principles. You want to make them think about secularism, write to them and attend meetings that they do. Go to their surgery and speak about your concerns.

I will say one thing about fundies - they get off their backside and do something. Lets put the herding of cats line to rest - as individuals acting on our concerns we can make a difference.

Other Comments by Homo economicus

46. Comment #20698 by rorke on February 6, 2007 at 1:16 am

A revised edition might be required - one where words as complex as 'Delusion' were simplified. Also it should be on tape so they can listen to it in the car. Pictures would help too. Also I think the first pages are counter productive, being too confrontational. Better to let the evidence mount on its own.

Other Comments by rorke

47. Comment #21772 by Dan Allen on February 11, 2007 at 3:58 am

This is a call to action.

Folks, the pledge in question is at risk of floundering.
The pledge hasn't quite crossed the 50% mark and may miss it's fill line by the proposed end date in March.

The most important thing about Civil Action is Action.
Actually civil is sometimes an impediment!
It's only a tenner.
It's well worth debating how we execute the pledge and what else we might do as well.
Do those other things as well.
Let's face it the risk is that people talk about what they might do for ever and never do anything.
Unless you believe the pledge will actually do harm OR you really can't spare a tenner - why not pledge?
If you've read the book, send your copy!
If you really can't spare a tenner, post here and for one genuine hardship case in an untaken constituency I will arrange delivery of TGD to you for forwarding to your MP.
I'll post an e-mail address and we can arrange conclusion from there. Basically I'll Amazon the book to you and you forward it from there with your letter. You can even recycle the box!
Financial hardship shouldn't exclude you from the lobbying process!

Other Comments by Dan Allen

48. Comment #22449 by allybalder on February 18, 2007 at 5:21 pm

We're well on the way to getting cofirmation of 18 pledges from Humanists in N Ireland

and don't miss Richard Dawkins interviewed by William Crawley on BBC1 N. Ireland next Tues 20th Feb at 11:05 pm - William Crawley meets..
Sky subscribers outside N Ireland can get BBC1 NI TV on channel number approx 971 or above

William Crawley Meets...
Tue 20 Feb, 11:05 pm - 11:40 pm 30mins


Richard Dawkins: Does God exist? William Crawley meets the world's most famous atheist who says religious belief is a dangerous virus which has infected humanity for long enough. [S]
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcone/listings/programme.shtml?day=tuesday&service_id=4221&filename=20070220/20070220_2310_4221_28272_30

alan

Other Comments by allybalder

49. Comment #22658 by Cheesepiece on February 20, 2007 at 9:51 am

Wow...Be careful you guys, you're turning into a cult! Just the thing you're striving against!

Atheists are such hypocrites and so full of hatred! I can't believe it!

Other Comments by Cheesepiece

50. Comment #22724 by jayelll on February 21, 2007 at 8:38 am

well cheesepiece..i am stunned, and not a little insulted..i object to being told i am full of hatred, thank you! however if atheism is to be a cult, so be it!! so what? everything is a cult under your definition, going to the gym is a cult, if you like. AND... i am a hypocrite becaause atheism is becoming a cult>? something that is completely out of my control makes me a hypocrite...get a grip. ( mediator, dont bar these people it does no harm to see what plain simple dumass people are out there. Know your enemy, they say! well that type are easy)

Other Comments by jayelll